Open 305 - Faith + 1 [D6] [LYLO]

[Amrun]

See, Quilford, I'm just not buying it. You don't FoS someone and then say you thought you voted them. It just doesn't work that way.

[zMuffinMan]

What's my wagon now?

andrew, edmund, Ghostlin, Quilford, dvdkid?

There is no way that is a 5-townie wagon. rofl

[andrew94]

huge assignment tommorrow,
quick post, then v/la for tommorrow.

alright, for the history of the background between zmuffinman and me. this is the history:

once upon a time, in another mafia forum, a guy called zmuffinman always votes me, and always gets me lynched. he even gets me lynched even when im his buddy etc.
however this 'zmuffinman' isnt zmuffinman. cos the real zmuffinman cbf to play on this site. so yea..
in conclusion, zleneks vote on me seems to be random, but when questioned about it, he attempted to justify his random vote on me by saying im a bad player etc etc.
the thing is, i dont think zlink "zmuffinman' actually thinks im scum.
in fact, im pretty sure he has a quote of me somewhere that says im stupid or some crap.
also, you always say im town and i play like shit.
however, you decide to have this post number 22, where you state i am scum.
later on, you decide to state i am scum with someone else (c worl i think).


hope ppl understand this,.

[sanchocolates]

Sorry guys, something popped up and I'm really busy now. I'm also moving houses so I won't have internet for a week or so.
I think it'll be a good idea if the mod replaces me soon.

Really appreciate the warning. Hope things work out. ~ CHK

[zMuffinMan]

Translation: Even andrew knows my vote on him was a joke vote. I would have retracted my vote earlier, but gauging the reactions has been fun. andrew is probtown (VT fo sho, he never has a PR), C-Worl is prob-town. And

@Amrun,

Zmuffin coming out worse in this exchange, but still not convinced.

Elaborate on this. What "exchange" did I come out "worse" from and why do you think that?

Quilford, why unvote but not vote your top scumspect?

Unvote; Vote Quilford

Do you really think this is a good reason to put a vote on someone? What were you hoping to achieve with this vote?


@Quilford,

Why am I your top FoS?

Also, I'd still like someone to explain how my actions make sense from a scum perspective, though. Don't really care who, any of the people voting can take a stab at this. I'm interested in any answer you can come up with.

Unvote

VOTE: edmund

[C-Worl]

Oh zMuffinMan was reaction testing? I totally never thought that and all my reactions should obviously be thought of as genuine (if they make me look town) So um... yeah. Also, yeah Amrun started to play. Do I have a vote on someone right now? Nope, time to sheep then.

Vote: Quilford

Totally feels like a good idea.

[Amrun]

Zmuff, are you dense? You have been arguing extensively with someone (guess who) and I think you look worse in the exchange.

Also your flip flopping on andrew became way obvious and then you went "haha reaction fishing," just as scum would to pass off a poor attempt at an attack on an easy lynch target.

After that, I will be happy to vote you, but your wagon is growing quickly so I'll stick with my Quilford suspicion for now.

[zMuffinMan]

I'm asking you why me looking "worse" in some "exchange" is reason to think I'm scum. How do I look worse? How does that make me scum? Why aren't you voting for me? If you think I'm scum, then vote for me. What does my wagon's growth have to do with anything?

What has Quilford done to make you suspect he's scum? The fact he FoSed me but didn't vote means he's scum? Your vote on Quilford is pathetic - you're not even doing anything with your "suspicion" of Quilford. Why aren't you pushing him to explain whatever "scummy" things Quilford has done? Why are you being so passive?

Here's what I think: You're scum, you didn't want to associate yourself with my wagon, and you're voting Quilford to make it look like you're scum hunting, even though your vote on Quilford is doing absolutely nothing. It's a fluff vote.

What's your opinion of the people on my wagon, Amrun?

[Amrun]

Let me be very clear:

You have had a long exchange of posts with Ghostlin, who was questioning you about your motivations. The answers revealed a lot of internal conflictions and had an overall tone that I think is more likely to be scum than town.

However, a couple of people have gotten on the wagon in ways I didn't like- namely, Quilford. Your talk of me being "passive" in this matter is pure bullshit, as I have actually gone after Quilford quite aggressively given his content level and the gamestate.

I am less inclined to vote you after seeing someone scummy slide onto your wagon like that. Even if Quilford is scum, it doesn't mean you cannot be scum, but for the moment, I'm more content with a Quilford vote.

I haven't liked anything Quilford has done, and his reponse to C-Worl's obvjoke showed that he has a heightened sense of perceived threat, indicative of a scum mindset. My vote on him is absolutely not fluff.

Others on your wagon for shaky reasons:

Edmund: did give reasoning, not as bad as Quilford
Andrew: RVS vote that hasn't been removed, though his strange post last night seemed to indicate he has developed a true suspicion of you

I want to hear more from these two (and several others off the wagon), but the others on the wagon I think are there for good, solid reasons.

[Amrun]

Speaking of Quilford, I'm still waiting on a better explanation of your "FoS" and how you supposedly forgot to place a vote in the same post you FoSed and unvoted C-Worl?

[zMuffinMan]

The answers revealed a lot of internal conflictions

Such as...?

and had an overall tone that I think is more likely to be scum than town.

A gut feeling or can you explain specifically what gave you this impression?

Your talk of me being "passive" in this matter is pure bullshit, as I have actually gone after Quilford quite aggressively given his content level and the gamestate.

No, you really haven't...

See, Quilford, I'm just not buying it. You don't FoS someone and then say you thought you voted them. It just doesn't work that way.

This is not being quite aggressive at all. This is being passive. You're not putting any pressure on him, you're just saying you "don't buy" that he forgot to vote for me and up until now you haven't given any other reason that you think Quilford is suspicious. Even now, all I can see is you "not liking" his posts and the reasoning in his vote for C-Worl. Out of interest, if you had a problem with Quilford (and specifically his vote on C-Worl), why did you not mention it until now?

I am less inclined to vote you after seeing someone scummy slide onto your wagon like that.

I thought the reason you weren't voting me was because my wagon was growing quickly... When did it suddenly become about the reasons people were on my wagon or how scummy they are? Or are you retracting this statement: "I will be happy to vote you, but your wagon is growing quickly"?

[Amrun]

Such as whether not Andrew was scummy to you or whether he was a PL. It seemed to me like you couldn't quite make up your mind.

The flippancy of your answers is one thing that bothered me about your tone. You couldn't come up with a satisfactory answer as to why C-Worl and andrew were scumbuddies on page one after two posts from C-Worl and one from andrew, so instead you gave a snarky answer, something like "next time I will ask permission before giving scumreads.". This is a deflection; it is not an answer to the underlying question about how you arrived at that conclusion so quickly.

As for Quilford, we may just have to agree to disagree on this point as we obviously see it differently. I could have phrased that post better, but it was meant as pressure, telling Quilford I didn't buy his bs and he needs to try harder.

I did not express my dislike of his attack on C-Worl for two reasons. The main reason is that I wasn't around at the time when that exchange happened. The other reason is that I wanted to attack him myself and see how he reacted. I waited until he did something else scummy and voted him. His reaction has not been satisfactory thus far.

Do you know what disliking the growth of your wagon even means? It means I don't think a wagon without scum on it would grow so fast. I find you scummy but instead wanted to see who was on your wagon and why. Scummy attacks on you make me less confident of my scumread on you, so for now, I'll focus on the scummy attacks. I also don't want a quicklynch.

I've been thinking and the andrew/zmuffin conflict might have been staged pre-game as a distancing tactic. Not saying it was. It just occured to me as a possibility.

[chkflip]

Vote Count 1.3

Quilford (3): SnakePlissken, Amrun, C-Worl
Amrun (2): Quaroath, Tragedy

zMuffinMan

(5): edmund.angles, andrew94, Ghostlin, Quilford, dvdkid13
SnakePlissken (1): sanchocolates
edmund.angles (2): Scumhunter, zMuffinMan

WITH 13 ALIVE, IT'S SEVEN TO LYNCH.
DEADLINE IS MAY 31 12PM PACIFIC

[zMuffinMan]

It seemed to me like you couldn't quite make up your mind.

That's very perceptive of you. Unfortunately, it's a moot point, unless you think I'm scum and I'm lying about the whole thing being a joke based on playing with andrew on another site.

You couldn't come up with a satisfactory answer as to why C-Worl and andrew were scumbuddies on page one after two posts from C-Worl and one from andrew

There could be a very simple reason for this. Or maybe there was some elaborate ploy here because I'm scum and, as Ghostlin is suggesting, I was unnecessarily setting up lynches for no valid reason.

The main reason is that I wasn't around at the time when that exchange happened

But you did post shortly after and made no mention of it, and you also made no mention of it when commenting on the exchange I was coming off worse in... Only after he FoSed me without voting for me did you mention it.

The other reason is that I wanted to attack him myself and see how he reacted. I waited until he did something else scummy and voted him.

So your scum hunting strategy is to sit back and wait for people to act "scummy" then pressure them? Is this a strategy you often employ as town?

[edmund.angles]

@zMuffin:
To answer your question: Your actions make sense in a scum perspective in the following way: Based on your actions I would say you are either attention-hawking VI or newbscum. Newbscum might think town would go along with lynching andrew.
Why are you convinced andrew and c-worl are town?

about this RQS thing:
I don't mind RQS but I find bringing it up without contributing to the game a little scummy. RQS is a distraction and scum benefit from distractions due to the possibility to avoid controversy. I don't want to stress the point though, it is a weak tell.

[Amrun]

Funny you should mention that... That is a possibility I've put forward. I also think it could be just you as scvum who couldn't fecide which angle to attack andrew from.

Show me what made you think cworl and andrew are scum and scum together at that point in the game. That's the "simple answer" I'm looking for.

Yes; what I wanted to comment on was you at the moment and I was short on time. And yes, sometimes the best scumhunting strategy is "wait and see." One scummy comment isn't enough to convince me, but two scummy incidents is enoigh for me to take it seriously. I wanted to see how several scummy and/or lurky characters, including and especially Quilford, reacted when your wagon started gaining more support. Would they join in? With what reasoning? However, I wasn't sure of you myself and didn't want to give the wagon more vote momentum at that particular time.

When you talk about something or express suspicion of someone, it can affect their behavior. Sometimes the best strategy is to lay traps and wait. Sometimes, it's not.

[Tragedy]

I'm not convinced on andrew but anybody who can make me laugh gains townie point for now. In other news that Quil guy seemed to jump on me quickly for what was a joke question.

Unvote

I had no idea it was a joke question. And it sounded scummy to me.

zmuffin's now my top FoS

UNVOTE: C-Worl

Quil, why would ZMuffin would be your top FoS, despite he didn't call you scum? [Weird thinking..]
Also, why unvote C-Worl now and vote Muffinz? Strange!

[Amrun]

Tragedy, why is it strange to NOT OMGUS? Am I reading you wrong?

[Tragedy]

OMGUS'ing is a partial scum point.
But Whose OMGUS'ing?
Muffins just said that 5 people on Muffin's wagon so quickly, it isn't really townie to do so, which including Quilford himself.

[Ghostlin]

So, Z: Who on your wagon do you think is scum and why?

[Amrun]

I obviously misunderstood you.

"Quil, why would ZMuffin would be your top FoS, despite he didn't call you scum?"

In English, this sentence means, "Quilford, why would you suspect zmuffin even though he had a town read on you?"

I guess that's not what you meant.


It does bring me to something I overlooked: if there is scum on your wagon, zmuffin, who are they? Saying "this isn't an all-town wagon" is unspecific, unhelpful, and not scumhunting. It's attempting to throw aspersions onto your wagon without substance.

p-edit: ninjaed by Ghostlin.

[Tragedy]

Yes, you do keep overlooking things.

How is ZMuffin scummy, other than that one comment?

[Amrun]

Are you asking me that, Tragedy? If you're really asking that, you need to read my posts.

[Ghostlin]

The other reason is that I wanted to attack him myself and see how he reacted. I waited until he did something else scummy and voted him.

So your scum hunting strategy is to sit back and wait for people to act "scummy" then pressure them? Is this a strategy you often employ as town?

Is this question serious, and if so, do you expect the person you asked to answer the question honestly?

No, I'm not asking this sarcastically (or rather, not entirely so), but wondering what value the question has in scum hunting since if the person is telling the truth and this is an tactic they use often as town, what does that say about the tactic itself. If it's a lie (it's not a tactic and they say it is), do you plan to use meta to confirm? And does that make the tactic more or less scummy if they use it all the time, but what you would deem incorrectly?

[Ghostlin]

I'm not convinced on andrew but anybody who can make me laugh gains townie point for now. In other news that Quil guy seemed to jump on me quickly for what was a joke question.

Unvote

I had no idea it was a joke question. And it sounded scummy to me.

zmuffin's now my top FoS

UNVOTE: C-Worl

Quil, why would ZMuffin would be your top FoS, despite he didn't call you scum? [Weird thinking..]

Also, why unvote C-Worl now and vote Muffinz? Strange!

Hrr? So, he didn't call Quil scum and Quil shouldn't be voting him because of that? That doesn't seem to make sense to me.