Mini 1150 - There Goes the Neighborhood - Game Over

[Setael]

So a full doctor is neighbors with a FUCKING WATCHER?

Can someone mail me a hammer?

What does that have to do with anything? I'm not a neighbor doc so what does it matter who my neighbors are?

your vote is scummy because instead of giving reasons for thinking I'm scum, you vote me because you suspect those on the Seacore wagon.

Didn't I already give reasons in a post before? Read the thread moar. You and Sea were close in my suspicions with Sea just winning out scumhunting wise. However, when the majority of the people I found scummy (You, Pack, TS), I think its easy to see why I chose you.

Uh no. I didn't recall you ever stating you were suspicious of me, so ISO'd you and I still don't see anything. Care to link to it if I'm missing it? As far as I can see you went from no comment on me to voting me because you are suspicious of all the Seacore voters (which is also sheeping Grey btw).

[Nachomamma8]

In your line of thinking, PR only works if he's fully outed...which also makes him pretty useless. Do I assume from this that you think he just messed up his claim by accident yesterday?

Sure. I haven't really saw strong scum reasoning for PR to change his claim in the middle of the night, and it doesn't seem all that unbelievable.

Can you point to where you were pressuring Jedo for his hammer specifically?

I'm not quite sure what this has to do with anything.

Set not indicating the scope in his claim straight away = scumfakeclaiming

>.>

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote

No reason to lynch Set just yet. Don't really believe her claim, but that doesn't mean that the hammer has to immediately be brought down.

This post is shameless prod-dodging, and I apologize for that - I'm about to leave for a concert now, but tomorrow or Monday I can try to skim the thread quickly looking for the obvious stuff. Obviously my post-by-post notes are not going to be finished by next week's deadline.

I WANT TO BURN THIS WITH FIRE.
GI WHY NOT.
WHY OH GOD NOT.

[Nachomamma8]

I want a counterclaim. Set drawing an NK at this point in time would be a godsend, and there's a 90% chance of there being a protective role out there SOMEWHERE.

So a full doctor is neighbors with a FUCKING WATCHER?

Can someone mail me a hammer?

I'm the only person who gets to gamble in this getup, you here?

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Doombunny

[AurorusVox]

In your line of thinking, PR only works if he's fully outed...which also makes him pretty useless. Do I assume from this that you think he just messed up his claim by accident yesterday?

Sure. I haven't really saw strong scum reasoning for PR to change his claim in the middle of the night, and it doesn't seem all that unbelievable.

Whilst debating who to fake a watch on, he and his scumbuddies concoct a new element to his power that enables him to limit how responsible he is for his targets. I know its a scum reason as I've done it as scum in the past.

Can you point to where you were pressuring Jedo for his hammer specifically?

I'm not quite sure what this has to do with anything.

You asked why I was pushing Krypt and not you about the Jedo suspicions when you were the one doing it most, basically. But I was pushing Krypt because his main point against Jedo was that Jedo hammered 46 mins before the deadline. So if you weren't pressuring Jedo for the hammer, there's your answer.

[Seacore]

I don't normally push people to replace out, in fact, as a mod, I've spoken against somebody doing that.

But I felt it was warranted here. It wasn't that twisted was bad. It was that he was consistently not contributing.

He thought that Power had claimed tracker, when a 3 second ISO on my phone told me that it was watcher (also my memory, but I double checked).
He made claims when he finally caved to responding with reads. When pushed on three points, he admitted he couldn't defend two of them.

I will still have him as a major scumread, no matter who replaces in, but at least we give that person a chance (whether it's a chance to scum hunt or bus, either way we win)

Nacho, why did you jump off the set wagon to waste your vote on Doom? No way is he the lynch for today.

[LlamaFluff]

Why can they not both be town?

Granted, I'm suspicious of both and think that Set is scum, but I'd like to know why that can't be both town from your POV?

Really? I know you can figure this one out on your own, but nothing meshes here at all. Their roles are orginized differently first, but the bigger one is what they actually are. Doctor + Watcher is a powerful combination because they just have to target eachother and scum cant kill the doctor without being caught. Any role combination that immediately becomes unbreakable unless scum sacrafices themselves is too strong, LMP knows this, and wouldnt have it in his game.

[Seacore]

The roles being organised differently is a point I can definitely agree on. And both make me suspicious. Power's "limitation" increases his ability to dodge valuable investigation results. Set's "lack of limitation" allows her to not be bound by who she has to 'protect'.

But I think the your other concern is too far into 'out guess the mod'. I've seen games with both watchers and doctors on the same team. So lets say that there is a point at which both the doctor and watcher claim.

a) one of them may be lying
b) they both target each other leaving the scum team free to kill anybody else without worrying about being blocked or watched
c) they claim they'll target each other, hoping to fake out the scum, and then target somebody else hoping to block or catch the scum

b & c play on each other to the point that neither are dependable.

Is it strong? Yeah, sure, but it's hardly "that which cannot be considered possible"

[LimMePls]

Vote Count 2.13

GreyICE (0)

-

Packbat (0)

-

kryptinen (0)

-

Doombunny9 (1)

- Nachomamma8

Setael (4)

- GreyICE, Seacore, Doombunny9, AurorusVox

Powerrox93 (0)

-

Seacore (4)

- Packbat, Twistedspoon, Setael, Powerrox93

LlamaFluff (0)

-

Nachomamma8 (0)

-

Twistedspoon (0)

-

AurorusVox (1)

- LlamaFluff

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (1)

- kryptinen

11 votes available, 6 votes needed for an arrest

1) All players are within the posting guidelines.

2) I'll begin searching for a Twistedspoon replacement ASAP. Anyone that can, please feel free to pimp the game to your friends. Thanks in advance.

3) Deadline is less than 5 days away.

Deadline is May 20, ~11 am EDT

[Doombunny9]

Uh no. I didn't recall you ever stating you were suspicious of me, so ISO'd you and I still don't see anything. Care to link to it if I'm missing it? As far as I can see you went from no comment on me to voting me because you are suspicious of all the Seacore voters (which is also sheeping Grey btw).

ISO #63 is where I made my case on you. Thanks for the misrep.

@Nacho- Thank you for your full and detailed case on me.

[GreyICE]

Yeah or maybe the claimed super doc whose role works like no one else's is a fake.

[LlamaFluff]

Look, there is zero. ZERO chance of both Set and Power being town, I would not be shocked if one of them was scum telling the truth about their role, but they cant both be town.

That said Doom wagon is completely valid, and continually increases in validity as the game goes on.

@mod

- Im going to be V/LA from late on the 18th through sometime in night. Will be back before daybreak though

Vote Set

[Setael]

Yeah or maybe the claimed super doc whose role works like no one else's is a fake.

And when you say "no one else" you're talking about JUST Power who isn't confirmed, right?

ISO #63 is where I made my case on you. Thanks for the misrep.

I should've searched "Set" as well as "Setael". Regardless, it's weak reasoning to choose me over Seacore. Meh.

I can see Llama's point, though it would be a nonissue if Power hadn't had to claim. Possibly the scum have a PR that keeps a watcher from seeing them so that they could still kill me without repercussion. Maybe I'm wrong to believe Power's claim, but I don't buy into AV's reasoning at all. It makes no sense to me that he'd claim the way he did if he were scum.

I don't really know what to say to convince people to not kill me. It's been years since I had a town PR. I tried to kind of stay low but that backfired. Saying I haven't been scum hunting is ridiculous though. I have focused mainly on Seacore and Grey and yes, I've spent a lot of time answering questions but I think I've made solid cases on both of them and it hasn't all been information with no analysis like Grey claims.

It's probably inevitable at this point since most everyone is following Grey and Seacore's lead. My flip should get people to revisit their blind obedience to them tomorrow, so that's something.

[LlamaFluff]

I can see Llama's point, though it would be a nonissue if Power hadn't had to claim. Possibly the scum have a PR that keeps a watcher from seeing them so that they could still kill me without repercussion. Maybe I'm wrong to believe Power's claim, but I don't buy into AV's reasoning at all. It makes no sense to me that he'd claim the way he did if he were scum.

At what point did you realize that the pairing makes no sense

unvote

No longer ready for this yet.

[Powerrox93]

UNVOTE:
Because I want to have some anwsers first

So a full doctor is neighbors with a FUCKING WATCHER?

Can someone mail me a hammer?

Don't you think that game has any "global" PR at all?

@Those saying Set and I cannot be on the same side:

Care explaining please?

[GreyICE]

Watcher watches doctor
Doctor protects watcher

Or maybe they don't!

In any case those two power roles combine to form voltron, the unbeatable team whereby scum just have to kind of sit there and cry.

Also does no one else see the hardcore role fishing in Setael's post?

Yeah or maybe the claimed super doc whose role works like no one else's is a fake.

And when you say "no one else" you're talking about JUST Power who isn't confirmed, right?

He flat out asks me if I have a power role that functions similarly to PowerRox's.

Well lynch him.

[Setael]

Watcher watches doctor
Doctor protects watcher

Or maybe they don't!

In any case those two power roles combine to form voltron, the unbeatable team whereby scum just have to kind of sit there and cry.

Also does no one else see the hardcore role fishing in Setael's post?

Yeah or maybe the claimed super doc whose role works like no one else's is a fake.

And when you say "no one else" you're talking about JUST Power who isn't confirmed, right?

He flat out asks me if I have a power role that functions similarly to PowerRox's.

Well lynch him.

I absolutely did no such thing. I pointed out that you're basing that assumption completely on ONE claim that isn't even confirmed, which is RIDICULOUS.

@Llama - I didn't consider it until after you pointed out that I could protect power all game and scum wouldn't dare NK him for fear of being watched.

[GreyICE]

Watcher watches doctor
Doctor protects watcher

Or maybe they don't!

In any case those two power roles combine to form voltron, the unbeatable team whereby scum just have to kind of sit there and cry.

Also does no one else see the hardcore role fishing in Setael's post?

Yeah or maybe the claimed super doc whose role works like no one else's is a fake.

And when you say "no one else" you're talking about JUST Power who isn't confirmed, right?

He flat out asks me if I have a power role that functions similarly to PowerRox's.

Well lynch him.

I absolutely did no such thing. I pointed out that you're basing that assumption completely on ONE claim that isn't even confirmed, which is RIDICULOUS.

@Llama - I didn't consider it until after you pointed out that I could protect power all game and scum wouldn't dare NK him for fear of being watched.

Well yeah, or you'd have claimed something more believable.

If you're TELLING me that there's one claimed power role so that's the only thing I have to base things on, why the question? You're straight up asking if I have a power role that works the same way.

[Doombunny9]

I'm sorry I have to do this but due to things out of my control, I won't be able to dedicate as much time to this game as I probably should and it would be best for me if I replace out.

[kryptinen]

You think I might be scum. You think Set might be scum. Fine. But I would like to see your case in which both of us being wrong-town is an impossibility.

I only have a gut feeling. Your banter just doesn't feel like town on town, especially now when there has been more than one people trying to get the attention out of you two and into doom/TS.

don'tcha think if there were a vig we'd have had more than one N1 kill

No, if he had limited amount of shots.

- Krypt saying "I'll vote for Seacore but not yet!" sounds like it could be scum trying to avoid hammering a mislynch.
- Krypt NOT voting for Setael when he could feasibly do so without being the hammer vote makes Set more likely a buddy than Seacore.
- Krypt has been accusing me of tunnelling but not Setael, being selective with his tells across different players.

Really? How hard is it to look at the little text under my avatar that says "Gender: Female"? I have called attention to it, it's just common courtesy.

If I had voted Set, there had still been a change that someone had hammered while I had been away. That would have ended the discussion. I did not want that. Setael has not been in the game long enough to give me tunneler vibes. The fact that you try to keep bringing the discussion back to me is another telltale sign of your tunneling.

@AV: Your problem is that you only focus on a few players at a time and say nothing about other people, even if everyone else is talking about them. You could easily say you have a null read on someone and leave it at that, or say that you have not seen them do anything particularly scummy, like you just did. Why do I need to drag that out of you? Newsflash, the wagon on your scumbuddy is not going anywhere, even if you don't look at it.

When I made this post I was angry at you for your dodging and misgendering. The last line was a direct answer to that.

Can you point to where you were pressuring Jedo for his hammer specifically?

I'm not quite sure what this has to do with anything.

You asked why I was pushing Krypt and not you about the Jedo suspicions when you were the one doing it most, basically. But I was pushing Krypt because his main point against Jedo was that Jedo hammered 46 mins before the deadline. So if you weren't pressuring Jedo for the hammer, there's your answer.

It was Pack who hammered the first day. Are you referring to something else?

I don't think Set's claim is a thing where we can out think the mod. The roles were most likely random, so there's no way to draw any conclusions out of them. And a watcher and a doctor in the same team are not unheard of.

That said I am not willing to believe this claim unconditionally. Set's appeal to emotion ("I have not been town PR in a long time") is especially terrible.

I can see Llama's point, though it would be a nonissue if Power hadn't had to claim.

I'm not sure that I understand what you mean by this.

What is this with people leaving the moment they have a little pressure on them?

[Setael]

I can see Llama's point, though it would be a nonissue if Power hadn't had to claim.

I'm not sure that I understand what you mean by this.

Obviously if he hadn't claimed I wouldn't have known to protect him.

If he is telling the truth about his role, there must be a scum who can't be seen by a watcher.

[Seacore]

Yes, it's totally clear now

There's a doctor, a limited watcher who happens to be next to that doctor, there's a scum ability to circumvent the watcher, then there's probably some kind of town PR that circumvents that power. And maybe a scum one to circumvent that.

Or, you're lying.

[AurorusVox]

If I had voted Set, there had still been a change that someone had hammered while I had been away. That would have ended the discussion. I did not want that.

You did not want that...because he's your scumbuddy, maybe?

Setael has not been in the game long enough to give me tunneler vibes. The fact that you try to keep bringing the discussion back to me is another telltale sign of your tunneling.

That's because I think you're scum. You can try to call it tunnelling but I've not seen a reason to STOP thinking you're scum so I'm going to pressure you until you flip. Simple as. Also, I've been looking at multiple people (you, Power, Llama, Set/Sea) - Set's admitted that he's really only been looking at Sea and Grey. He's been in the game since midway through D1 - certainly long enough. This is bull.

Newsflash, the wagon on your scumbuddy is not going anywhere, even if you don't look at it.

When I made this post I was angry at you for your dodging and misgendering. The last line was a direct answer to that.

What did I dodge? I answered you in my very next posts (within 2 hours of each other) after you asked the question. Also, please explain which wagon you're talking about, and how I shifted from scum here to null later on. Or are you saying that it was posted in anger and so I should just "ignore" the inconsistency?

Can you point to where you were pressuring Jedo for his hammer specifically?

I'm not quite sure what this has to do with anything.

You asked why I was pushing Krypt and not you about the Jedo suspicions when you were the one doing it most, basically. But I was pushing Krypt because his main point against Jedo was that Jedo hammered 46 mins before the deadline. So if you weren't pressuring Jedo for the hammer, there's your answer.

It was Pack who hammered the first day. Are you referring to something else?

HFHDSFIDUSHFD
Yes read Jedo as Packbat in all those sentences. I think my wires got crossed (probably about what Nacho was first asking about) somewhere down the line.

@Nacho - were you asking why I found Krypt suspicious for pressuring Packbat or why I found him suspicious for reversing his Jedo read all of a sudden?

If its the second one - as I now suspect it is - then your read changed and you gave a reason (his stubbornness) for it. It's clear that you lessen the pressure on him as the day goes on so it doesn't look like a sudden shift.

Krypt's read changed, but pretty much all of his direct interactions with Jedo up to that point in his ISO had him seeing Jedo as scum, or not-town. Then when he places himself against the wagon, he says Jedo's play has been "more neutral than scum" -- but he spent the first half of his ISO outlining

why

Jedo's play was scummy. He doesn't say why his read changes - he in fact retroactively tries to change how he read Jedo from the start. That's why Krypt's changing-read of Jedo is scummy, and yours isn't.

[GreyICE]

I can see Llama's point, though it would be a nonissue if Power hadn't had to claim.

I'm not sure that I understand what you mean by this.

Obviously if he hadn't claimed I wouldn't have known to protect him.

If he is telling the truth about his role, there must be a scum who can't be seen by a watcher.

=============[] Time