Open 307-Friends and Enemies Deadly Alliance-Town Wins!!

[chkflip]

Actually, if you look at it, LK explicitly called me out more times than I explicitly tried to reassure him I wasn't such, if that makes any difference.

[DeityKabuto]

Right now I can see cjdrum, LK, Toro, Archaist, and cjdrum as potential scum.

[[Low Key]]

Arch is fail. The rest of your list is fine.

[popsofctown]

It doesn't read like a bus to me.

You remember that Snarky said "Let's kill Toro, then if he flips town, let's lynch DK"? Why would he say that if he was bussing? If he's bussing, he knows Toro won't flip town, and won't line up DK's lynch for later.

We can talk about this tomorrow if you want, because today we're lynching chkflip

[hiphop]

Are We There Yet Votecount

Votecount 1.10

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

chkflip(4): popsofctown, Spadille, [Low Key], DeityKabuto
Toro(3): Parabollocks, Archaist, SnakePlissken
cjdrum(2): Toro, chkflip
Spadille(1): cjdrum

Not Voting(1): zMuffinMan

Notes:

Nothing to put here.

Deadline is the End of June 7th PST.

[chkflip]

UNVOTE: cjdrum
VOTE: chkflip

I believe this is the best I can do to play to my win condition since nobody wants to listen. Let's show you.

That's L-1. Vanilla Town.

We have nearly TWO FUCKING WEEKS to find scum, but oh no that won't be found in TWO FUCKING WEEKS. TWO WEEKS? LOLWUT!?

That's a retarded mindset, period. And I will not continue in a town with such a mindset, period.

Lynch me.

[Spadille]

I'm baffled, what's everyone's case against CJ, Archaist and LK again? I think I missed it on reread.

[popsofctown]

Quit acting like you claimed at L-1.


And give us your deathbed reads, please, if you're town. If you're scum, you could make a polite excuse and skip it, to save everyone the effort.

(normally I object to self-votes, but it lines up with his wincon for VT as far as I can tell since we'd just lynch him D2. So...)

[popsofctown]

uh. No one's attacking LK except DK afaik. And I'm only reading DK's posts for entertainment value atm so..

I dunno what's up with the CJ case or Arch one though.

[Spadille]

Seriously, Archaist is ubermegaultra town. I don't get why people will chase him for anything.

Chkflip's reaction to the wagon is fantastic. Though it struck me that he's willing to lynch himself. Bold move.
But we have 2 weeks to find scum and I think I should see chkflip in scumhunting action. VOTE: Toro because when pressure was building, his reaction are starting to get less-competent and less-valuable. Scum in pressure? Also put in addition the town's case against him. More on that after I come from review.

[popsofctown]

Chkflip's reaction to the wagon is fantastic. Though it struck me that he's willing to lynch himself. Bold move.

Explica, por favor. Explica.

[zMuffinMan]

Arch is a good lynch. LK is meh.

Thoughts on LK:

ugh. 200 posts in LK's ISO.

I really hate your playstyle. For your first 30 posts you expressed suspicion of Snarky, then came DK's VT claim, at which point you hopped on the DK wagon. I hate this for so many reasons but I'm not going to go into detail when you already know why I hate it. The next 80 posts was you pushing for a DK vig, until finally Snarky posts something and you jump back on him while supporting the idea of a Toro vig. Posts before and after the Snarky flip look so disingenuous that I feel like lynching you just for posting the way you did, there. The whole "zomg you vigged Snarky!!?!?!?" to the "Well, you had us fooled, Snarky" before his flip was just meh.

I'm still not following how immediately after Snarky's flip you thought Toro was a good lynch (you and Arch, actually). Your push to keep Toro under suspicion in recent pages is just bad. It looks far more likely that Snarky was trying to get a vig going on Toro because he's town. All I've seen from you is "it's possible he's bussing" but it really makes no sense to assume he's bussing when it's far more likely he wanted a townie to be vigged.

Thoughts on Arch:

Tries way, way, way, way, way too hard to push the DK lynch. Ignored really mentioning much about Snarky at all pre-flip. Also Snarky's own interaction with him is interesting - we have Snarky criticising DK's case on Arch (I'm inclined to consider this possible chainsawing), and Arch getting a "neutral-to-town" read on Arch because of "town vibes from his analyses". I'm more inclined to believe Snarky was trying to distance himself from buddies by not mentioning them much than I am to believe he'd call them "scum" or "town" or push for their death D1, which makes me feel good about Arch being scum.

Also the lack of explanation as to why his vote "needs" to be on Toro.

[popsofctown]

ohmigawd i love zmuffinz posting.

[zMuffinMan]

So I've read cj in ISO, and I need someone to flesh out a case on cj, because he's playing town in my eyes.

I do not think cj would bus Snarky like he did and his arguments are well-reasoned. I don't agree that Spadille is necessarily scum by association with Snarky, but I think that's cj-town making a connection and not cj-scum after bussing his partner.

As for chk, the things I don't like about his slot are:

- He replaced DJ (yeah, I'm holding this against him)
- Asking Toro for a "sufficient" claim (this could just be poor phrasing, but it made me raise an eyebrow when I read it)
- Constant reminders that he's VT (I'm willing to believe it was a joke initially, but repeated in ISO#4 and ISO#13 makes this invalid)

But I'm not at all convinced he's scum. His reaction is either scum trying way too hard to seem like a frustrated townie or he's genuinely a frustrated townie. Props for the acting if he is scum.

[popsofctown]

I know, I know.

But he claimed VT

[Archaist]

Also the lack of explanation as to why his vote "needs" to be on Toro

Because I realized a DK lynch wasn't going to happen anytime soon, and a Toro lynch would reveal a good bit of information about you, since you were willing to bet on him being scum. Parabollocks also seemed quite sure of himself when voting Toro.

I push the DK case because he looks so scummy to me I can't understand why he survived so long, unless everyone else thinks he's just a VI. I think you're reaching a bit with Snarky's reads on me. Calling someone neutral or slightly town doesn't mean much. It seems like you're mainly focusing on people who went after DK, since scum Snarky did the same. Going after the same person as a scum player, especially when there is good reason to, is not scummy.

My case on DK stands, as with his scummy play I can't discount that his buddies may have voted him for easy town credit

---------------

About chkflip:

His reaction is either scum trying way too hard to seem like a frustrated townie or he's genuinely a frustrated townie. Props for the acting if he is scum.

Agreed. Claiming he didn't read the PM, early VT claim, self vote to L-1, frustrated back and forth with LK that made him want to replace out. For the slot, besides DJ's scummy post, most of chkflip's posting does indeed seem more frustrated than scummy. I would like to see a player by player read list from him. Hammering before he posts real content doesn't seem right, though he's had plenty of opportunity.

I know, I know.

But he claimed VT

But I'm assuming you don't believe it, since your vote is still on him even though you say his self vote plays to his win condition.

[chkflip]

1

Quit acting like you claimed at L-1.

2

And give us your deathbed reads, please, if you're town. If you're scum, you could make a polite excuse and skip it, to save everyone the effort.

3

(normally I object to self-votes, but it lines up with his wincon for VT as far as I can tell since we'd just lynch him D2. So...)

1 - I'm not acting like anything, but I'm glad you caught that arbitrary line. It was for you.

2 - *snort* No. Once again, there's no point.

3 - And this is why. You won't listen to me while I'm alive, insist on one completely mundane line of text that lines me up with scum, and now you expect me to participate for you?

Nice try. L-2 or not, you're lynching me. And you're getting jack shit for it. And I'm trololol'ing all the way home.

Have fun on your extended D1.

[Archaist]

You won't listen to me while I'm alive, insist on one completely mundane line of text that lines me up with scum, and now you expect me to participate for you?

Nice try. L-2 or not, you're lynching me. And you're getting jack shit for it. And I'm trololol'ing all the way home.

Clearly not interested in participating no matter what. Actively anti-town townie is nearly as bad as scum. This negates his "playing to win condition" since he seems pleased the town will get nothing for this lynch. After this I don't think the town will be able to trust chkflip again anyway even if he isn't lying, but I think an elaborate ruse is just as likely. Either way, lets move on.

Unvote
Vote: chkflip

[chkflip]

Pleased? No, not entirely, I'm just happy to see idiots get their due course.

You can't expect a man, who willingly replaced in and took time out of his days to carefully read page after page after page... to talk to a huge town wall-of-ignorance and do it with a smile on my face. I'm playing to my win condition whether you like the way I'm doing it or not.

Also, just for you, I didn't claim not to read the PM. I claimed not to have gotten one from hiphop at all. Because, at that point, I thought I hadn't. Seems it was a slip and my claim was correct (though it would've been the same regardless of who I actually was because, let's face it, you don't claim mason unless you have to).

Not interested in playing? Oh, no, I'm very interested in playing. What I'm not interested in doing is dealing with ignorance.

Besides, you got a lucky day-vig. There's only two of them left. And at least

one

of them will stick out like a sore thumb after I flip.

If town loses this game... you're all absolutely hopeless.

[zMuffinMan]

I push the DK case because he looks so scummy to me I can't understand why he survived so long, unless everyone else thinks he's just a VI. I think you're reaching a bit with Snarky's reads on me. Calling someone neutral or slightly town doesn't mean much. It seems like you're mainly focusing on people who went after DK, since scum Snarky did the same. Going after the same person as a scum player, especially when there is good reason to, is not scummy.

I am going after people on the DK wagon, because it was infested with scum. I still think there was at least one other scum on that wagon.

The links between you and Snarky are somewhat vague. you are correct. And that's because I think Snarky would be more likely to be vague about his partners. For example, I'm almost 100% DK is not scum at this point just based on the Snarky flip. Toro I'm not as sure of, but still pretty sure. On the other end of the spectrum, I don't think any players he called "town" are partners, either. His partners are likely to be somewhere in his null->town/null category. BTW, you're the only person he was "neutral" on - he was null on others. Whether that has any special meaning, I'm not too sure.

Because I realized a DK lynch wasn't going to happen anytime soon, and a Toro lynch would reveal a good bit of information about you, since you were willing to bet on him being scum. Parabollocks also seemed quite sure of himself when voting Toro.

How does Toro's lynch/flip reveal a "good bit of information" about me? Yeah, I was willing to bet on him being scum prior to Snarky's flip because that DK wagon was scum-infested and I was more sure about Toro than the others. Not anymore.

[zMuffinMan]

Oh, and Spad still needs to explain the whole "DK's flip

will

give information about muffin's alignment" that he was sure of it at one point. I don't care that we didn't end up lynching DK, I still want an explanation for it.

[zMuffinMan]

I know, I know.

But he claimed VT

I could understand normally how this would be a big deal, but after day-vigging scum D1 and the fact that the only power roles are masons, this isn't that big a deal to me. Obviously a lot of people claiming VT is bad for masons, and I'd be wary if everyone started doing it, but it wasn't that big a deal that he did that.

Like, I mean, which would you rather? Protect the masons or catch scum?

I'm just disappointed he was quickhammered, but the fact he was quickhammered by one of my top suspects is interesting. He's right that we had plenty of time for discussion. Even if you're sure he's scum, no matter what he does, he can't erase his early actions, so it's not like letting him live a bit longer before lynching him was going to make a difference if you still thought he was scum.

[chkflip]

I'm L-1 again, bro.

Someone moved their vote from me, cba to care who.

[chkflip]

Spadille did it.

[cjdrum]

Somebody made a comment last page on me being so concerned about the DayKill?

With Low Key asking me so many questions about it, I answered the questions as I saw the answers. Then he says "That isn't the right answer", or if I don't answer because he's going to say that, he says "YOU ARE HARDCORE AVOIDING THIS, ANSWER NOW".

Low Key, at some stage, I would like to see a well-done case on me. Not "Oh, this post doesn't quite fit the right logic", more like why I'm scummy? kthx.