NY136: The Death of ReaperCharlie (GAME OVER, Town win!)

[Ythan]

And by the way I'm hoping you'll specify which response to MoI you mean.

[AlmasterGM]

@Pa, Dh, kondi: Are you just neighbors or some of you also have powers?

Rolefishing. Scumpoints.

AGM, do you know how hydras even work?

No, I usually make a point to just spew uneducated statements about things I know nothing about.

The Hydra bullshit is even more annoying. Why does not signing one's posts have to be such a big deal? They have the same role and a scumtell is a scumtell.

1) It's been an excellent discussion 2) Scumtells aren't scumtells when players can hide behind being a hydra as an excuse, and 3) Why don't they just sign their posts, like you said? (Looking forward, SensFan also has a good point on this issue)

For that matter, FoS: Hydra for even letting this conversation happen. Just sign your fucking posts and move on, no need to make your own arrogance the centerpoint of the game.

So first the discussion was "bullshit" and "annoying," but now it's lead to generating a FoS? That doesn't seem like bullshit to me. Scumpoints.

I don't understand the Hydra wagon.

FoS: Hydra

What? More scumpoints.

--

Shanba and DH get townpoints for calling out the rolefishing in 147 and 148.

There is no reason to expect two heads of a hydra to be of one mind.

Yes, which is exactly my point about the post signing. If they reufse to collaborate or sign posts, the hydra can just become a giant contradiction machine and we "Can't expect them to be of one mind," thus making it okay. This is scummy because it lets them get away with bad behavior.

Unvote: kondi
Vote: Meransiel

Maybe it's confirmation bias, but something about the timing and positioning of this vote really grated me. First, he says the rolefishing doesn't matter. How is that remotely sane? Second, if not the rolefishing, how does the vote relate to the quote before it (post 154)?

In other news, AGM remains scummier than Sens Fan - other people don't seem to notice.

Justify your accusations.

Lol, thinking pointing at a townslip is a scumslip...and they say I wifom. No, I found the slip in the posts in-thread, from kondi's behavior, because I'm not a telepath.

PEDIT: How can you say that it's not a standalone reason to vote me and be ok with people voting me for that alone? Selective much.

Also, I didn't want you to comment on how town or scum the proposition makes me, but on the proposition itself! As much as I know you hate hearing this, I thought you were a better player, Thor

This post is baaaad. It doesn't respond to any of the votes in any legitimate form - it just ad hominems.

--

Magna vs Yos --> Yos is coming out ahead, but I'm not sure if that means MoI-scum or just MoI-wrong. I like Iecerint's analysis of it, I think (MoI is town unless Meransiel is scum).

If they don't sign their posts or talk to each other before making their posts (and right now, they're not doing either), then they are going to objectively look by far scummier than anyone else by D3 or so. Instead of letting them point this out on D3 and give themselves an excuse for looking immensely scummy, I want them to fix this problem, so that if they look scummy it's because they're Scum, not because they're different people.

Great arguments; can you talk about something else now? You're zoning in on this too much. Scumpoints.

What has AGM done after starting this whole kerfluffle?

Absou-frickin'-lutely nothing. He hasn't even commented on it since his initial pop. He's doing other stuff and acting like he's not even a part of it.
Totally scum who is totally happy with the explosion he started.
Sens is mislead tunnel town.

True, but what has SensFan done other than repeat himself over and over? Also, if I'm scummy now for not doing anything, why was I scummy in your last post (it's quoted in my post here)? Please explain from that POV.

I like the attack against AGM as well. Also, AGM is another one who's trying to chain lynches based on the "1 neighbor is scum" theory, more blatantly then MagnaofIllusion is, and yet he's still voting for Hydra at the same time.

People keep using this buzzword without any context. I'm not saying, "plow 'em all down" - I'm saying it's a solid, small pool to look for scum in. Example: if you have two competing cop claims, you lynch until you hit the liar. It's easy because you have a small pool of people in which one is probably lying. This is the same thing except it's not as surefire ... but it's still solid. Most neighborhoods include scum, so if one of them is acting scummy, you've got a really high chance of nailing sucm in that tiny pool. There's no reason not to take that.

I am pretty not happy with everyone who got involved in the Hydra nonsense. I don’t think it yielded any information other than that Thor is going to be a little prickly. DH and Parama both put their vote on the Hydra after kondi explained his silly mistake- was that for lack of a better candidate at that point? I mean, I don’t really get it. I especially don't like how Parama just said it was because Hydra was a shitty poster. I'm going to have to look at that again though.

I don't like this attempt to discount what I think is and was a legitimate discussion. If saporovirus ever flips scum, there is definitely something fishy going on in that pool.

--

Hrezs 196 is a lot of stuff and not a lot of solid stances on who the scum are. Scumpoints.

--

SCUM: Hydra, PBuG, Meransiel, SensFan, Hrezs (maybe), a lurker (probably Snow White, she only has one post and it's pretty bad (defends Meransiel)).

Fixed a quote tag.

-Amrun

[Meransiel]

Oh, crying out loud!

@Amrun: Thanks, I was just not paying attention.

Spoiler: sapo

Meransiel: asking for PRs at this point is pretty bad, imo. I seriously don’t think we’re going to be able to crack the puzzle of the neighborhood today. IT IS A MYSTERY.

I obviously asked for it to study

night-play perspective

. The earlier, the more nights of info we can get.

I’m pretty sure he means the people who voted for you based on the PR-fishing.

I know what he meant. I don't see how that invalidates my suspicion of MoI.

Spoiler: Yosarian

Who said anything about "hidden layers of undisclosed logic"? You are responding, and that's how we can get a read on you. If someone is under zero pressure and nothing they do is questioned or attacked, it's usually a lot harder to tell what their alignment is.

I am not talking about pressure and questions in general. I am talking about the repeated way you guys ask me "why did you suggest that?". DUDES. ASKED. AND. ANSWERED.

Um...yes, a cop with neighbors would be crazy strong. That's true if he's in an "all town" neighborhood or not, though; a cop with neighbors would likely investigate them first, and then if one is scum, communicate all his results with whichever one is town.

Um...no. If a cop finds one of his neighbors is scum he stays the fuck away from the quicktopic. Difference in value.

Eh. Possibly, although there's a lot of WIFOM involved. The idea, though, of "let's just have the power roles claim so we get a little bit of dubious WIFOM data from the scum killing the outed power role" seems unwise at best.

Works for me.

You kidding? That's a HUGE change that would badly hurt the town. Every VT that's outed dramatically increases the odds of the scum killing the real power roles. (And, no, I don't consider a neighbor with no other power to be a "power role.")

All them being VT, as I stated before, is something verifiable via investigation.

If you think that we should lynch one of the neighbors today, say so, and say why

Read my damn posts. I DON'T want to lynch neighbors today. I want to get info that, through night interactions, would tell me IF lynching neighbors is a good idea for later.

There's no reason for him to do so before that point.

Same as above.

If you don't intend to get them lynched today, then it's a REALLY bad idea to try to get them to fullclaim today.

Same as above.

Spoiler: DH

His early game unwillingness to discuss Hydra.

This only makes sense as a scumtell if Hydra was also scum. But you don't suspect Hydra. Hence, wtf.

His RVS (or what I assume) on Parama, then backing off without any real scum suspects when the game was in full speed suspicion mode.

I already explained. I didn't know what he meant, and wanted a clarification. I didn't deem that productive nor scumhunting-like nor RVS. I just wanted to know, and slapping someone with a vote makes the knowledge come faster.

Also, his unwillingness to join the kondi (or, rather, ANY other wagon) to scumhunt or pressure.

I didn't like any wagon that was forming. Problem?

He has a trend of picking up an argument for a post or two, then putting it down and forgetting it forever. He asks questions in which he never uses the information. It just seems too spaced out and hollow.

If I followed up on all my thoughts, many meta-related, all my posts would be chapter-of-a-novel-sized. You can't know in advance if something you say is going to be useful or not.

Why would masons want to lynch one of the masonhood? They wouldn't, so it rang as very strange.

I already fucking explained that.

Spoiler: Hrezs

We should judge them based on their play normally without the whole confirmation bias aspect of it.

Why?

It was clearly role fishing.

God, you just don't get it, do you?

Spoiler: AGM

1) It's been an excellent discussion

What did you gain from it, specifically? Well, except:

Great arguments; can you talk about something else now? You're zoning in on this too much. Scumpoints.

Trapped this guy on purpose, me says.

Justify your accusations.

He did. Answer to them instead of bs'ing. Because this:

Maybe it's confirmation bias, but something about the timing and positioning of this vote really grated me. First, he says the rolefishing doesn't matter. How is that remotely sane? Second, if not the rolefishing, how does the vote relate to the quote before it (post 154)?

Is bs.

This post is baaaad. It doesn't respond to any of the votes in any legitimate form - it just ad hominems.

Name ONE accusation made against me that I didn't respond to. I will be waiting.

People keep using this buzzword without any context. I'm not saying, "plow 'em all down" - I'm saying it's a solid, small pool to look for scum in. Example: if you have two competing cop claims, you lynch until you hit the liar. It's easy because you have a small pool of people in which one is probably lying. This is the same thing except it's not as surefire ... but it's still solid. Most neighborhoods include scum, so if one of them is acting scummy, you've got a really high chance of nailing sucm in that tiny pool. There's no reason not to take that.

If you're so convinced zoning in on them is a good idea, you should be the very first to call of the wagon on me as stupid. Because I'm the one encouraging we put the neighbors under further scrutiny. And my claiming proposition would only go kinda wrong (not really) if ALL neighbors were town. You don't believe all neighbors are town. Me neither. So what the hell are you doing?

(probably Snow White, she only has one post and it's pretty bad (defends Meransiel))

Llaaame.

[Meransiel]

EDIT: at DemonHybrid above, the "you" is not referring DH, but was impersonal.

[Meransiel]

Also for people who don't know how to read: if AGM is scum then Sensfan is town. If that happens I'm blacklisting sensfan.

[AlmasterGM]

@Meransiel - Do you think I am scum?

[SensFan]

Any particular reason you'll blacklist me if I'm Town, Meransiel?

[Meransiel]

@Meransiel - Do you think I am scum?

No, I have a null on you. But through your behavior I deduced that IF you are, sensfan is not your partner. Anyway, I'm much more convinced on MoI right now. And Iecer.



@sensfan: Because I blacklisted a dude that self-hammered as town, and you're MORE useless than him.

[petroleumjelly]

I’ve written and deleted several and revised this post over the course of the last several hours, but ultimately:

1.)

I was originally going to unvote Meransiel after his latest posts, but I started to reread the game again to see where to put my vote, and I have to say Post 90 stopped me in my tracks a second time. It still looks like scum trying to be too clever.

In response to Iecerint – who claimed Meransiel could not have been trying to be subtle – try reading over his post again. He didn’t give an opinion on either MagnaofIllusion or the Neighbors; he just planted seeds, both of which could only put all of those players in a negative. And as for subtlety, hardly anything seems particularly subtle once it is highlighted. Apologies for the digression here, but I’ve cut this down to include a single example:

In Simon Mafia, there was a role that could apparently leave messages taped to a bow and arrow. During Day One, it was used and it said “All claims so far are truthful.” During the first night, the Mod told my scum team that we could use whatever flavor we wanted for our scumkill. And so we decided that our victim would be shot with an arrow, and on it would be taped a note that said “All claims so far are truthful.” But when Day Two started, nobody really seemed to comment on it at all! The flavor was apparently too embedded in the death scene. So nobody was making the connection we wanted them to make – that the note-writer was scum. So I decided to nudge things along with this, after quoting the note in the death scene:

Not sure what to think about that right now. But it's dang weird, and I'm surprised I missed it at first. Still need to do that reread, though.

In retrospect, it doesn’t look very subtle when I go and pinpoint it, does it? And I didn’t give an opinion on the note

myself

! But I wanted to draw, players’ attention on it, and to make the connection that I didn’t want to quite say out loud. Although this obviously isn't a perfect example, it strikes me as being very similar to Post 90.

And to respond to Meransiel:

Petro, why do you think my style is similar to yours?

I never said your playstyle is anything like mine. But that doesn’t stop you from employing similar tactics as scum.

2.)

I’m gonna be completely honest here – if the Neighbors have daytalk, I suspect scum have daytalk. And if scum have daytalk, I am currently wondering if was Meransiel was “nutkicked” (trademarked by MBL) into posting with some emotion. His swearing and sudden surge of anger certainly almost got

my

vote off of him.

3.)

That said, this post doesn’t do Meransiel any favors:

Because a PR sharing all his results with a full-town neighborhood at night just in case he would be dying the night he does it is VERY broken. VERY. I know that works only for investigative roles, protective roles and roleblockers, but...whait, no buts, that's almost all of them!

It reads to me like scum who might be making a backhanded complaint about potential “imbalance” that favors Town.

Fixed some quote tags.

-Amrun

[petroleumjelly]

SIGH. For all the time I spend on posts in Word, you would think I would at least

preview

them more often. Sending Mod a PM to fix quote tags.

[Meransiel]

Petro, why do you think something is awesome and other people would do it just because you did it? And I was genuinely dazzled by MoI's style of play, because in the first game we played he had 8 scum reads by page 10 and voted me for ASKING FOR A VOTECOUNT.

Also, what good all that subtly planting ideas in advance if I was the one to follow up on them, not somebody else, later? As you can see, I am obviously the one wanting a more ample scrutiny on the neighbors, and I am obviously the one calling MoI scum and voting him.

Btw, this:

3.) That said, this post doesn’t do Meransiel any favors:

Because a PR sharing all his results with a full-town neighborhood at night just in case he would be dying the night he does it is VERY broken. VERY. I know that works only for investigative roles, protective roles and roleblockers, but...whait, no buts, that's almost all of them!

It reads to me like scum who might be making a backhanded complaint about potential “imbalance” that favors Town.

This is bullshit. Of the worst kind.

Fixed some quote tags.

-Amrun

[Meransiel]

Yes, petro, I know this is a game of wits and speculation, but you don't get to say such a thing and expect me not to be insulted.

[Hydra]

As discussed - in my opinion he was using logic unavailable to him without an inside track on the QT.

Ok. Let's say I was using logic unavailable to me without an inside track on the QT. That would make me scum. Except you DON'T know if scum have daytalk. Probably not.

I just want this one on its own, so we can all consider.
His defense of my scumtell on him is that I can't know that scum have Daytalk and that they probably don't.
Really.
Not, 'no, I wasn't using inside knowledge'
Not, 'here, let me show you how you're messing that up'
But 'Well, that would only work if scum have Daytalk'
Really.

OMGLOLWTF

I'll catch up with everything else now.

[Meransiel]

And...why am I wrong?

[Hydra]

By the way, Thor, you still didn't tell me why you don't have a problem with the people voting me just for the rolefish. MoI and Iecerint are scum.

1. You're complaining that I'm not defending you enough? I don't see it as a great scumtell - I don't see it as a town tell though, and I certainly don't see it as nebulous enough of a scumtell to advance any of my slot's credibility in your defense.
2. Iec (I'mma start a new wagon) is scum? Yeah...no. You also ended your post calling Iec out for a towntell and then are going to slip that in...whu?

If I believed one of them had to be scum - yeah, a pool of 33% scum with chance to clear 33-66% as town looks like prime hunting to me.
I don't know if I actually buy into that

I don't like the indecisiveness here. You either think that there's scum in the neighborhood, or you think that they might all be town.

Learn to read. I'm actually saying I'm not certain - I see no reason why I should have absolute assurance of them being all town or not - you just said we should assess them each as a player, which means you have the same opinion I hold. So...what the frell?

I don't know. I do know that there's very weird motivation that he would agree to a lynch when he thought we were all confirmed. Why would masons want to lynch one of the masonhood? They wouldn't, so it rang as very strange. There DEFINITELY wasn't any town motivation behind that post; the scum motivation was "Let me agree to this lynch and hopefully these guys will accept me", with no notification that he thought we were all confirmed. No questioning of "Hey, if we're confirmed, then why do you guys want to lynch me?"

I feel like you're regurgitating me, thoughts?

What has AGM done after starting this whole kerfluffle?

Absou-frickin'-lutely nothing. He hasn't even commented on it since his initial pop. He's doing other stuff and acting like he's not even a part of it.
Totally scum who is totally happy with the explosion he started.
Sens is mislead tunnel town.

True, but what has SensFan done other than repeat himself over and over? Also, if I'm scummy now for not doing anything, why was I scummy in your last post (it's quoted in my post here)? Please explain from that POV.

You posted after Sens assault, and after me telling him to sod off, and added...bupkiss to the conversation topic.
Oh, but you think it's a good topic. Right.

And...why am I wrong?

Wow.
Well, first off, they said all the conversation happened prior to game start. So, all Mafia would need is prior to gamestart chat - which I've really never not seen.
Second, Daytalk neighbors.
Third - YOU USED WHETHER OR NOT SCUM HAD DAYTALK TO DEFEND FROM A SCUMTELL INSTEAD OF EXPLAINING HOW YOU KNEW REGARDLESS OF SCUM DAY/NIGHTALK!

Really happy with Meran lynch.
Happy with AGM lynch too, but happier with Meran.

[Meransiel]

1. You're complaining that I'm not defending you enough? I don't see it as a great scumtell - I don't see it as a town tell though, and I certainly don't see it as nebulous enough of a scumtell to advance any of my slot's credibility in your defense.

I said nothing about defending me. Why, you can only play by having 1 suspect at a time?

2. Iec (I'mma start a new wagon) is scum? Yeah...no. You also ended your post calling Iec out for a towntell and then are going to slip that in...whu?

I...what? I called Iecer scum. And gave reasons why.

they said all the conversation happened prior to game start

Oh God no...

[Yosarian2]

I like the attack against AGM as well. Also, AGM is another one who's trying to chain lynches based on the "1 neighbor is scum" theory, more blatantly then MagnaofIllusion is, and yet he's still voting for Hydra at the same time.

People keep using this buzzword without any context. I'm not saying, "plow 'em all down" - I'm saying it's a solid, small pool to look for scum in. Example: if you have two competing cop claims, you lynch until you hit the liar. It's easy because you have a small pool of people in which one is probably lying. This is the same thing except it's not as surefire ... but it's still solid. Most neighborhoods include scum, so if one of them is acting scummy, you've got a really high chance of nailing sucm in that tiny pool. There's no reason not to take that.

If we knew that there was a scum in that group, that might not be a bad idea. But we don't.

If there aren't any mafia in the group of neighbors, then I would expect the mafia to be saying exactly what you're saying now, "lynch until you hit the liar". Except if there isn't a liar, that means three successive mislynches, three wasted days.

Basically, if they are all town, I would expect to see scum in the group of people pushing for the successive lynching of them, because if the scum convince the town of that it's such a huge boon to the scumteam.

[Hydra]

I said nothing about defending me. Why, you can only play by having 1 suspect at a time?

Why aren't you attacking the people voting me for a reason you don't agree with?
I'm not asking you to defend me though...

2. Iec (I'mma start a new wagon) is scum? Yeah...no. You also ended your post calling Iec out for a towntell and then are going to slip that in...whu?

I...what? I called Iecer scum. And gave reasons why.

Am not feeling any of the popular wagons. I think Meransiel is town. Am not sure enough about 1 scum in the Neighborhood.

I REALLY don't like this post. Towncred.

I'll agree looking at it again I suppose it wasn't clever sarcasm and was instead just unclever typo. The thing is - I *do* think that's a towncred post, and thought you did as well.

they said all the conversation happened prior to game start

Oh God no...

I have been served.
Oh...wait...
No, I haven't.

[Meransiel]

I can't defend against that. Please forget I even said it.

Damn I'm such an idiot...

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Hydra

– has Magister Ludi even weighed in behind the scenes?

Sensfan’s

206

is so active lurking scummy my Scummeter exploded on reading it. He’s been asked to provide content about who he thinks is scum from multiple soureces and his only comment here is to talk about potential blacklisting? Can we get some more votes on him, please?

PBug, Parama, Mr.BL and Snowwhite all need to actually get back to the thread and provide some content pronto.

Ythan’s play this game is perfectly characterized as active lurking and staying below the radar.

--

Scumtells aren't scumtells when players can hide behind being a hydra as an excuse,

Do you honestly think they are going to be able to use the “It’s because we are a Hydra” excuse at all given how the game opened?

You do make solid points about PBuG’s inconsistency in FOSing Hydra.

--

I was waiting for him to respond. I didn't like the response. Plus, DH voted for him, so I followed.

What response would you have liked that would have resulted in you not voting?

--

Irrespective of Meran's alignment, I don't have a problem with people questioning him or attacking him about that line. Could scum make that argument if they wanted to push the Meran wagon, if Meran is town? Yeah, they could, but I'd also expect to see pro-town people making that argument as well, so the whole thing is pretty null.

We are going to have to disagree on Mafia theory then. I don’t believe that if Meran is Town that the flash-vote collection on him is completely composed of Town players.

Yeah, pretty much. IMHO, PJ is one of the top 5 mafia players of all time, and one of the best scumhunters on the site. And, as you pointed out, I'm not voting anyone right now; I don't really like my vote not doing anything, I like putting it to work.

I see this response specifically dodged answering the second part of my question –

Do you disagree with PJ’s assessment that he was ‘salting’ that particular post and was scummy for it?

you seem to have completely skipped that step and gone right to "who is trying to mislynch him for rolefishing?" That's the thing that feels odd to me.

You don’t seem to understand my approach to the game as Town. I know I’m not going to be around long so when I see relational-tell information Day 1 that I will probably not be around to provide I bring it up immediately.

To use your phrasing from before, if the neighbors are town, would you agree with me that at least one of the people pushing the "one of the neighbors is scum, let's lynch neighbors" line of reasoning is probably scum?

Yes, if all three Neighbors are Town then if at least one person specifically attempting to start a wagon on one of them solely based on the ‘1 of 3 must be scum’ logic alone they were probably scum.

I disagree that anyone is doing that. AGM would be the closest but I still don't see that.

Let me ask you – why did you immediately jump to the line of thought that all three Neighbors are Town? Aside from lack of scummy posting (which you admit no-one is really doing much of yet via your unwillingness to vote) you seem to be approaching the Neighbor situation in a way that you specifically stated is ‘odd’ regarding my play.

No, not really. I don't think most people would have jumped to the conclusion that Kondi misunderstood the neighbor role just based on that one post of his, even if they've made that same mistake before.

Then once again we are going to disagree. The fact that DH, upon seeing the QT post that was vague, didn’t even bother to follow-up asking Kondi what he meant doesn’t make sense. I don’t see the logical course of action being “Wagon Away”.

I fully admit not being able to see the actual interaction in the QT makes this a very subjective stance.

That being said, I'd like to hear more from Sensfan about who he actually thinks is scummy.

I agree with this. One of the reasons I haven’t moved my vote is because he’s doing absolutely zero scum-hunting.

Nothing solid, but I was hoping he could explain why he seemed to be assuming you were town. I still am, in fact.

You are going to be waiting forever then because as I said before I’m not assuming he is Town.

--

As discussed - in my opinion he was using logic unavailable to him without an inside track on the QT.

So you see him jumping on the ‘It was a Townslip’ theme started by Parama ( I think ) as evidence of having inside knowledge? If you can summarize clearly what how this line of thoughts works for me I’d appreciate it because I’m not puzzling it out from your posts (or I’m stupid).

On other topics of 177 you seem to be saying Sensfan is ‘Too scummy for scum’ in his horrible attack on you. I hate that reasoning but understand people ascribe to it.

What do you think of Sens’ total lack of scum-hunting.

--

MoI is town unless Meransiel is scum.

So because I don’t agree that Meran was scum rolefishing I’m Town unless he is scum.

Since you are of similar mindset I assume that I can apply to you as well, correct?

--

Why am I bad/stupid Town? What the hell?

Because if you are Town asking that any Power-Roles in the Neigbhorhood to claim Day 1 is a bad / stupid idea. Sorry, it is.

This is a Mafia game. The Mafia has an intrinsically higher amount of information with which to make decisions. No matter how ‘smart’ you think claiming Day 1 PRs from those slots is to help make “is there scum in the Neighborhood” the scum are going to benefit more from that sort of claiming. That’s common Mafia knowledge.

This. Now THIS is blatant chaining lynches. And I'm saying this because I KNOW someone like MoI is not going to get lynched early: If everyone in the neighborhood turns out to be town, this guy must die.

No, it isn’t. Do you understand what chaining lynches is? I’ve just come of having to explain this to Hezlucky in Jungle Republic.

Chaining lynches is saying “If Meran flips Town we are lynching Player X, Player Y and Player Z in that order no matter what”.

What I’ve done is provided relational tell information that may be useful down the line if you are indeed Town.

Because you are setting someone as town for now and some other 3 people as scum for later. While he's setting someone as scum and some other 3 people as town. Motivation motivation MOTIVATION.

This is so blatantly wrong I don’t even. How I am setting someone as Town? I don’t know if you are Town or not. But if you are Town then someone scum jumped in that group of 5. I’d even make an avatar bet based on that set of circumstances.

Because a PR sharing all his results with a full-town neighborhood at night just in case he would be dying the night he does it is VERY broken. VERY. I know that works only for investigative roles, protective roles and roleblockers, but...whait, no buts, that's almost all of them!

1. Regarding protective or roleblocking roles – sharing their targets is broken how? Neither of those roles gets any mod confirmation of their success or failure (in all games I’ve ever been in here, anyway).
2. In the case of investigative roles you do understand that Mods give then out AFTER they tell the investigative role whether they are dead, correct? That’s how I wasn’t able to share the Regfan was caught scum the Night I died in Superhero Mafia.

Probably the most broken roles for a Neighbor set-up would be Hiders / Weak Docs who die protecting scum. They could out their target during Night and if they end up dead in the morning you MIGHT have confirmed scum, dependant on circumstances.

And I was genuinely dazzled by MoI's style of play, because in the first game we played he had 8 scum reads by page 10 and voted me for ASKING FOR A VOTECOUNT.

Hey, guess what? THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE FUCKING LIE AND YOU KNOW IT. Furthermore you are referencing a game where I FUCKING OWNED SCUM UNTIL I GOT NIGHTKILLED AND YOU MORE OR LESS HERPED IT UP. WAY TO STRIP ANY POSSIBLE CONTEXT FROM YOUR POST!

Now back to regularly capitalized posting …

--

His RVS (or what I assume) on Parama, then backing off without any real scum suspects when the game was in full speed suspicion mode.

Aside from the rest of your points (which I don’t find compelling) I have two questions –

1. In regards to the above – is Yos also scummy for doing the exact same thing?
2. Why didn’t you vote Meran instead of Hydra when you switched off of Kondi. Most of those ‘scummy’ plays you listed in this post happened before you switched your vote. Yet you didn’t mention any of those elements that I can see until prompted.

I'm iffy on his towniness. His RVS votes have a kind of dissonance to them. Voting kondi, but suspecting Almaster and yosarian (the latter with no reasoning whatsoever) kind of rang as awful to me. He's done nothing but defend himself and do things that lack town motivation; he doesn't scumhunt. He's stubborn with requests. He just got off to a bad start and hasn't done anything to improve.

So you are iffy on whether they are Town but this list is completely comprised of scummy behaviors. You don’t list a single reason to think they are Town there. Seems like they would be a solid scum candidate based on your input here. Yet you are ‘iffy’. Does Not Compute.

[Yosarian2]

Yes, if all three Neighbors are Town then if at least one person specifically attempting to start a wagon on one of them solely based on the ‘1 of 3 must be scum’ logic alone they were probably scum.

I disagree that anyone is doing that. AGM would be the closest but I still don't see that.

Let me ask you – why did you immediately jump to the line of thought that all three Neighbors are Town? Aside from lack of scummy posting (which you admit no-one is really doing much of yet via your unwillingness to vote) you seem to be approaching the Neighbor situation in a way that you specifically stated is ‘odd’ regarding my play.

(shrug) I think it's likely they're all town. I don't know exactly how likely, but none of them seem scummy to me, and I don't know if the mod would follow the cliche "one and exactly one neighbor is always scum".

Also, the way people seemed to jump right to the conclusion that one of them must be scum and let's start lynching them bothers me. I know that I, as town, would not jump to that conclusion without some reason, but I also know that I, as scum, would be incredibly tempted to try to subtly plant that idea in the heads of the town if it wasn't actually true. Some risk, but the potential payoff if the town buys that conclusion and it is false is just huge. Basically, any time I see someone make that kind of assumption without a REALLY good reason for thinking that, it sets of warning bells in my head.

Nothing solid, but I was hoping he could explain why he seemed to be assuming you were town. I still am, in fact.

You are going to be waiting forever then because as I said before I’m not assuming he is Town.

Meh. You poured a lot of thought into that hypothetical situation, though, and made cases on several people off of the attacks on Meran.

Do you think he is probably town, at this point?

[Hydra]

@Hydra

– has Magister Ludi even weighed in behind the scenes?

I have a lot of information on how he apologizes and on his current schedule. The only thing really game related he weighed in on was that the people asking for signatures were "weenies" which is not drastically game related but I'm happy to get it out in the open.

As discussed - in my opinion he was using logic unavailable to him without an inside track on the QT.

So you see him jumping on the ‘It was a Townslip’ theme started by Parama ( I think ) as evidence of having inside knowledge? If you can summarize clearly what how this line of thoughts works for me I’d appreciate it because I’m not puzzling it out from your posts (or I’m stupid).

You can't use the "I'm stupid" thing, that's my schtick and only me and Socrates are allowed.
Here's the basic gist;

Parama: Townslip, ho!
Meran: Yes, total and obvious townslip!
Thor: Buh? What townslip - explain pl0x.
Parama: Because of what he said in the QT paired with this it makes sense as a townslip.
Thor: Meran, what townslip did you see?
Meran: Oh...that post, um...just that post, totally a town tell.
Thor: I think you're using inside knowledge and are changing your story.
Meran: That wouldn't work unless scum have Daytalk.
Thor:

I can link relevant posts if you really want, but I think that should explain the flow pretty well. Meran leapt at the townslip as obvious, but now is having to basically say that the townslip was a...post that looked town to him...which seems nothing remotely like a townslip to me so...wtf?

On other topics of 177 you seem to be saying Sensfan is ‘Too scummy for scum’ in his horrible attack on you. I hate that reasoning but understand people ascribe to it.

What do you think of Sens’ total lack of scum-hunting.

1. You're attacking my town read there in a very roundabout way. It's not that I think he's 'too scummy to be scum' it's that I think scum wouldn't keep pressing on something as silly and little (and unsupported in thread) as that while it was actively making other posters start to consider them scummy and/or stupid. There is so little gain there unless they're banking on someone white knighting them up for being silly scum.

2. I find it terrible. However, I do not find it a glaring exception to the rule of the thread. Is there anything making him worse than all the other bleh contributors this game? Because otherwise we're doing a basic lurk/VI/whatevs policy lynch here and I'm not sure why I should be more excited for one than another.

[Meransiel]

@mod: If I am alive, I may or may not ask to replace out Day 2. Just thought I'd let you know in advance.

I'm not on a pc now so I can't quote or write a lot, will do tomorrow. Just 2 small things before I leave.

@moi: You missed the fucking point. I didn't fucking say you played better or worse in superheroes. I just pointed out the noticeable difference in playstyle between that and this. Learn2read.

@Hydra: About the dialogue reenactment thingie...you're straight on. That's why I'm currently hitting my head with my fists.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also, the way people seemed to jump right to the conclusion that one of them must be scum and let's start lynching them bothers me.

You keep saying this is happening when it’s not. Not one player has said “We MUST lynched one of DH, Kondi, or Parama today”. Everyone who has said they think there is scum in the Neighborhood has advocating lynching said players IF they act scummy.

Meh. You poured a lot of thought into that hypothetical situation, though, and made cases on several people off of the attacks on Meran.

Do you think he is probably town, at this point?

What cases have I made that have 100% sprung from thinking that if Meran is Town then scum is in that player-set? Please point me to the post where I made them.

I know you can’t because I haven’t. Here are the list of players I identified for easy reference - Shanba, DH, Kondi, Hydra, Petro (which is from post 166).

Meran is solidly Null for me right now. Now that I see the exact shape of Thor’s case on him I’m deciding whether that and PJ’s catch are enough for me to slot him as scum. He’s active and looks to be at least trying to scum-hunt, regardless of how bad his results may be. And I don’t really see his “Hey are you PRs” coming from scum so that is really fighting with Thor and PJ’s cases.

--

2. I find it terrible. However, I do not find it a glaring exception to the rule of the thread. Is there anything making him worse than all the other bleh contributors this game? Because otherwise we're doing a basic lurk/VI/whatevs policy lynch here and I'm not sure why I should be more excited for one than another.

Sensfan hardly is a ‘policy lynch’. He’s posting with regularity but doing NO scum-hunting at all. He’s focus solely on “Sign Your Post” gate, defending how Townie “Sign Your Post” gate is, and fluffing.

Who else do you think aren’t at least attempting to do some scum-hunting while being active?

--

@moi: You missed the fucking point. I didn't fucking say you played better or worse in superheroes. I just pointed out the noticeable difference in playstyle between that and this. Learn2read.

Lulz. So now you are using meta as the basis for read and your grand spanking total amount of meta amounts to 1 Town game?

Also, I posted a whole lot more in response to you and this is all you have to say?

[Snow White]

Reading up since my last post. and three days coming im off! Am more excited than a kid in a candy shop! loolooloolool.