NY136: The Death of ReaperCharlie (GAME OVER, Town win!)

[Hydra]

Yeah, and his defense to my accusation being 'but scum would need Daytalk for that to make sense' which is so many light years away from - I made a mistake, or I just really had a serious town read on him that it is not even funny.
And I.
Know.
Funny.

[Hydra]

And how is my pursuit of him a town tell if his situation isn't scum city central and he just got done with telling me there's no way I would die because scum don't kill foolish tunnelers!?! Graaaaah!

[Meransiel]

Hydra, I don't want the Town to lose, so instead of pushing my lynch like there's no tomorrow, we can do 2 things:

1. Push my lynch further, but NOT like there's no tomorrow.
2. We both replace out, and discuss the game.

Seriously, BOTH those options are more pro-town than what you're doing now.

[Meransiel]

Also, fuck smurfs.

[TBuG]

Hey guys, sorry for vanishing, things came up offline but I'm back and will catch up pronto. ^_^

[Meransiel]

PBuG! Oh, how much I missed you!

[Iecerint]

@ Hydra -- How did he have no way of knowing about it...? It was posted about in-thread....

Did he claim the townslip before it started to be elucidated?

Also, it sounds like you're suggesting that at least one of DH and Parama are scum with Meransiel?

[Hydra]

@ Hydra -- How did he have no way of knowing about it...? It was posted about in-thread....

Did he claim the townslip before it started to be elucidated?

Also, it sounds like you're suggesting that at least one of DH and Parama are scum with Meransiel?

1. Parama claimed verification of the slip off of what was said in the neighbor thread - all we knew had been said in the thread was that kondi said 'hey guys, we're neighbors, let me die to confirm you, kthxbye' if you think there's a townslip to be had from him later saying he thought they were masons...let me know.

2. He claimed immediately after Parama but couldn't explain the townslip despite agreeing "STRONGLY" that there was one. Parama explained it as "with information from the QT" I think Meran claimed the townslip, and then realized he couldn't explain it off of info in thread which is why he later claimed that kondi's post was a towntell (and good gawd, how?) and then flat out denied he could explain the townslip and started using scum daytalk as a way to defend himself.

3. I see that as a pretty strong indicator, yes. If he's scum, I've got five bucks that says one of them is too.

[Meransiel]

I wasn't talking about the same townslip as Parama.

[Iecerint]

1. I thought Kondi saying he thought they were masons (plus asking to be lynched, even though the logic there totally makes no sense) WAS the townslip, and those were both public. I guess I'm missing a big piece of the Kondi townslip?

I don't understand how anything from the QT really amplifies the towntell...it just provides context for things that'd already been said...

2. Your last clause ("and then flat one...to defend himself") I agree is a legit scumtell. Do not recall it tbh, but that is scummy to the extent that it is accurate.

3. OK.

[TBuG]

Giant wall coming. I'm putting the heavy majority in a spoiler tag so y'all don't have to deal with it every time you look at the page.

Spoiler:

Unvote, Vote: Meransiel

Not only has he been scummy, but if he flips scum, the 3 of us neighbors can rest easy knowing that we're near-confirmed town.

I really, really do not like this post. Meransiel (up to this point, currently reading from page six on) has been a fairly townish read to me thus far rolefishing aside - and I think the rolefishing was too fucking blatant to be scummy. Anyway, it's not foolproof by far, but in my experience someone declaring that they could be confirmed town if Player X flips scum is occasionally a scumtell.

I really dislike how quickly that wagon formed just from a rolefishing accusation... It's a credible reason, yes, but not one I think warrants such rapid wagoning.

@PBug

– So in your first post you drop 2 FOSes but no vote. Why is that?

I didn't have a strong enough suspicion of either to form a vote. Though, your analysis of SensFan's ISO, which I haven't looked at yet (will do after I've read through if I'm still suspicious of him) is quite interesting.

At this point I have a very, very protown read on MoI. I like most of his post 166.

@Kondi

– why didn’t you vote for Meran when you first called out rolefishing if you think it is scummy?

I was waiting for him to respond. I didn't like the response.

Plus, DH voted for him, so I followed.

*facepalm* Did you forget that you're not alignment-confirmed again? srsly, bro, that's not how you mafia

Hydra's 177 sort of bothers me, but that's not new. Excellent point about AGM, lots of faillogic about Meransiel. Surprised by his defense of SensFan who he could easily push at, though, which is a towntell.

Meransiel's 182 is mostly ragefluff, which is either scummy or understandable given the bullshit wagon on him, and given Meransiel's general posting style I'm inclined to believe the former. *waits for people to claim I'm scumbuddies with Meransiel, given I seem to be defending him an awful lot* Not really seeing the argument behind the MoI vote, though.

sap's 187 is possibly the best post so far. I agree with every word.

Sick of the Mer vs. Yos argument, I think they're both town and this all seems fairly useless and distracting so far...

DH's 190 has a staggering level of bullshit, are we reading the same thread?

where has Meran been scummy other than the rolefishing (referencing your post at 148)?

His early game unwillingness to discuss Hydra. His RVS (or what I assume) on Parama, then backing off without any real scum suspects when the game was in full speed suspicion mode. Also, his unwillingness to join the kondi (or, rather, ANY other wagon) to scumhunt or pressure. Stays quiet until kondi townslips. Asks some hollow questions to Parama and I.

He has a trend of picking up an argument for a post or two, then putting it down and forgetting it forever. He asks questions in which he never uses the information. It just seems too spaced out and hollow.

The Hydra discussion was pointless WIFOM bullshit. Since when is choosing not to wagon a scumtell? Additionally, from what I've seen Meransiel doesn't drop his arguments, actually. And I don't see why not immediately using information from questions is scummy. Asking questions period is more often than not protown.

If you’ve been ‘iffy’ on Hydra as scum (which the use of the word still implies) why didn’t you ISO him before hopping on his wagon?

I'm iffy on his towniness. His RVS votes have a kind of dissonance to them. Voting kondi, but suspecting Almaster and yosarian (the latter with no reasoning whatsoever) kind of rang as awful to me. He's done nothing but defend himself and do things that lack town motivation; he doesn't scumhunt. He's stubborn with requests. He just got off to a bad start and hasn't done anything to improve.

I'm less suspicious of Hydra now because he HAS been scumhunting, actually. Did you miss his stellar point about AGM?

Thus far, I am uncertain as to whether I will be voting DH or AGM when this post is done.

Don't like Hrezs's 196, but that's mostly because I disagree with most of it.

So first the discussion was "bullshit" and "annoying," but now it's lead to generating a FoS? That doesn't seem like bullshit to me. Scumpoints.

It was annoying bullshit that Hydra helped fuel.

I don't understand the Hydra wagon.

FoS: Hydra

What? More scumpoints.

I lightly suspected Hydra. I did not see the logic in an actual wagon forming on him.

Not particularly fond of the rest of AGM's post, a lot of it is just stupidly throwing around accusations, ending in summing up a scumgroup that doesn't even make sense together.

AGM's 231, I actually like, because he calls Mer on his nullread which, in hindsight, was pretty ridiculous given how much he had to say about AGM's post.

I haven't been posting recently. This is because of lazy, and doesn't apply to just this game.
However, please note that I have more posts than anybody else in the game. LURKY LURKY LURK LURK ALL RIGHT

Just because you posted a fuckton in the first few pages doesn't mean you're not lurking

now

. Not that I'm saying you're lurking, that's just a retarded explanation.

Meransiel's head-smacking over being stupid is making me go either way, I'mma need to ISO him because I think I've just been blindly dismissing him as town.

A lot of what Parama's saying in his recap is fairly useless and lacks any scumhunting whatsoever aside from the poke at DH which I like. Understandable laziness re:the walls given that I have a hard time reading the whole thing instead of skimming.

I have a handful of townreads, but I don't have any strong scumreads yet.

This is realllllllly scummy, you should have something by page eleven.

kondi needs to stop following his neighbors. I don't get the MoI wagon.

In Meransiel's defense (...again) I read kondi's post about how he thought they were alignment confirmed in conjunction with the paraphrasing of kondi's "you can lynch me if you want to confirm us later" post as a townslip.

If my read on Mer as town is wrong, and I certainly see how I could be given Hydra's point number 2 in post 307, it's my personal opinion that DemonHybrid is the neighbor he's scum with.

Actually, I just plain think DemonHybrid is scum.

Vote: DemonHybrid

The post that rubs me the worst way is where he says that if Meransiel is scum, the neighbors are nearly confirmed town. I mentioned this right at the top of my recap wall. It's a trillion times worse if Mer IS scum, because that means that DH would be able to try to clear himself when his scumbuddy flips.

[petroleumjelly]

1.)

Hey Neighbors, mind sharing if you’ve had any more discussion in your QT lately? I’m particularly interested if Parama had anything to do with kondi2424’s recent vote on MagnaofIllusion.

2.)

@PJ

, what are your thoughts on each of the neighbors?

kondi2424 is more likely Town than a random player.

I do not have a firm read on either DemonHybrid or Parama, though I am leaning scum on Parama. I don’t particularly care for the way they didn’t bother to ask kondi2424 questions in the QT before outing the entire neighborhood without a discussion, especially since Parama used the excuse that kondi2424’s QT post was ”incredibly vague.”

As I mentioned before, I felt like Parama was too defensive once people started questioning the Neighbors. Despite the fact that he was willing to out the Neighbors on page 1 and lynch kondi2424 on the assumption the Neighbors had a scum – according to Post 133 – he was suddenly not very willing to even talk about that assumption once he decided kondi2424 was Town.

His excuse somehow revolves around thinking DemonHybrid is Town, according to Post 249. But I see no reasons for having that assumption. Nor I do think he has bothered to explain it.

I also feel like Parama has avoided giving real answers to a fair number of questions, including:

=>

a.)

Cool, so now that klondi is town, there's probably one scum between Parama and DemonHybrid.

I’m in pretty much full agreement with AGM that 1 of the 3 probably is Mafia or a Serial Killer of some sort.

@Parama and DH

: Do you agree with the above statements?

P-Edit:
Hey look, MBL's recent post contributes nothing under the premise of trying to look like he's contributing something.
Just throwing that one out there.

=>

b.)

4.)

Also, I have to ask – and this goes to both DemonHybrid and Parama: if you could apparently

daytalk

with kondi2424, why didn’t you ask him to clarify what he meant in the Neighborhood QT before attacking him and outing the Neighborhood? If his post was so “incredibly vague,” it sounds like you should have bothered to ask him questions before making an irreversible claim for all three of you.

Because kondi is always a good lynch.

=>

c.)

2.)

Parama, why did

you

want to be the one who outed the Neighborhood (according to what we've been told about your QT discussions)? Why couldn't DemonHybrid do it? That's a strange request to make.

'cause it would've been faster than waiting for DH to do it.
Even though he was online at the same time.

[earworm]

@AGM: why are you slamming Hydra for not signing their posts when you aren't signing them as part of Final Destination in [REDACTED]?

Don't like MBL's vote of Sensfan. It's

literally

the first time he's mentioned his name and he doesn't even attempt to explain it.
@MBL: top three suspects, and

why

please.

@Meransiel--explain this: In post 113 you say that that "if kondi was scum he would have never suggested that." This presumably refers to suggesting the neighbors lynch him to confirm themselves since that was the tell that was mentioned by DH in post 109

However in post 158 you state that this is the townslip you saw from kondi...

3. I feel really stupid. I was under the impression that we were alignment confirmed. Haven't played any games in groups besides scum groups.

Is it that much of a stretch to regard this a townslip.

[Amrun]

VC1.6

(2) DemonHybrid - saporovirus, PBuG
(0) Earworm
(0) Snow White
(0) Iecerint
(0) saporovirus
(0) Parama
(1) AlmasterGM - Yosarian2
(1) Hrezs - Iecerint
(0) PBuG
(5) Meransiel - Hrezs, Shanba, DemonHybrid, Hydra, petroleumjelly
(0) MrBuddyLee
(0) petroleumjelly
(0) Yosarian2
(0) Shanba
(3) SensFan - MagnaofIllusion, earworm, MrBuddyLee
(2) Hydra - AlmasterGM, SensFan
(3) MagnaofIllusion - Meransiel, Parama, kondi2424
(0) Kondi2424

Not Voting: Snow White

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.

V/LA: MagnaofIllusion, Yosarian2, Parama, DemonHybrid

Deadline: Tuesday, July 5, 11pm EST

Spoiler: Vote History

DemonHybrid - kondi > Hydra > Meransiel
Earworm - Hydra > SensFan
Snow White
Iecerint - Hrezs
saporovirus - DemonHybrid
Parama - kondi > Hydra > MoI
AlmasterGM - Hydra
Hrezs - Meransiel
PBuG - DemonHybrid
Meransiel - Parama > unvote > MoI
MrBuddyLee - petroleumjelly > SensFan
petroleumjelly - Shanba > Meransiel
Yosarian2 - Shanba > unvote > AlmasterGM
Shanba - SensFan > Meransiel
SensFan - kondi > Hydra
Hydra - kondi > Meransiel
MagnaofIllusion - SensFan
Kondi2424 - Meransiel > MagnaofIllusion

If there are any mistakes, please let me know.

SensFan has been prodded.

[MrBuddyLee]

Don't like MBL's vote of Sensfan. It's

literally

the first time he's mentioned his name and he doesn't even attempt to explain it.

How many reasons are there to vote SensFan right now? If you give me a second reason, I'll give you a cookie.

How sold are you on that SensFan vote of yours? You don't seem thrilled to have company on the wagon.

[earworm]

Don't like MBL's vote of Sensfan. It's

literally

the first time he's mentioned his name and he doesn't even attempt to explain it.

How many reasons are there to vote SensFan right now? If you give me a second reason, I'll give you a cookie.

How sold are you on that SensFan vote of yours? You don't seem thrilled to have company on the wagon.

I'll deal with having you on the wagon for now. he's my best lead right now.

This still applies though.

@MBL: top three suspects, and why please.

[saporovirus]

Don't like MBL's vote of Sensfan. It's

literally

the first time he's mentioned his name and he doesn't even attempt to explain it.

How many reasons are there to vote SensFan right now? If you give me a second reason, I'll give you a cookie.

How sold are you on that SensFan vote of yours? You don't seem thrilled to have company on the wagon.

Scumtastic, guys.

I am sticking with my DH guns for now though.

[Meransiel]

@earworm: Yeah, well...both of them. Because if one Mason dies all the others are confirmed if they were revealed earlier in-thread. So it's tied.

I like the case pj made against Parama, ISO'd him again and some of his posts do strike me as odd.

@sapo: What do you find scumtastic about that post?

[Hydra]

Magister Ludi here! (The quiet half of this fabulous hydra. Been a busy week with orientation activities, I've had no time to play)

~~~

There will be insights, I don't plan on rushing. I've read all of Thor's thoughts in our quicktopic, but I'll be reading these pages myself.

[Iecerint]

Unvote; Vote: DemonHybrid

Nothing's changed my mind about Hresz, but he's not really playing the game.

Sapo and PBuG on DH gives me good feelings. PBuG's wall gives me good feelings, except for the part where I'm scummy, but I don't blame anyone for being mad that I don't have strong scumreads SO.

[Meransiel]

I'm...not really sure. Parama had his fair share of dubious actions, as much as PBuG gave good commentaries in his wall. I wouldn't want to choose between them though.

[earworm]

Reading over the DH cases since I have him as town...

Spoiler: Saporovirus

Saporovirus's vote: Votes basically because of DH's statement of "if Meransiel is scum then the neighborhood is town". Really weak case and she seems to be tunnelling it pretty badly. Also this section of her post is a real head scratcher to me.

Also strange, imo, is DH’s speculation about 3-person town. And this:

Unvote, Vote: Meransiel

Not only has he been scummy, but if he flips scum, the 3 of us neighbors can rest easy knowing that we're near-confirmed town.

Yes, Meransiel wants to figure out the mystery of the neighborhood. THEREFORE HE MUST BE BAD SCUM TRYING TO GET US. WHICH MEANS WE ARE ALL GOOD BOYS. It is one thing to want to figure out your neighbors alignment, it's another to shut down anyone else who tries to get at it.

That seriously doesn't follow what DH was saying at all. To quote DH later:

sapo, trying to make sense of the neighborhood and asking for PRs are two completely different ballgames.

--

You later attack DH in this post.

Let's assume that DH did remember that specific game when this game began. (which is unlikely) Basically my thought process would be "so this guy

might

think he's a mason. And even if he does why would he offer himself to be lynched?"

Basically, what Kondi was so puzzling that it definitely deserved a vote by both of Parama and DH and I thank them for basically eliminating RVs altogether with it.

Spoiler: PBuG

First time DH is mentioned is in post 310.

Spoiler:

Unvote, Vote: Meransiel

Not only has he been scummy, but if he flips scum, the 3 of us neighbors can rest easy knowing that we're near-confirmed town.

I really, really do not like this post. Meransiel (up to this point, currently reading from page six on) has been a fairly townish read to me thus far rolefishing aside - and I think the rolefishing was too fucking blatant to be scummy. Anyway, it's not foolproof by far, but in my experience someone declaring that they could be confirmed town if Player X flips scum is occasionally a scumtell.

same quote as Saporovirus, but a better case.

@PBuG (or anyone for that matter): can you give me a meta case in which scum said that they would be confirmed town if someone else flips. Thanks.

My personal feeling on that quote is that it's fallacious but not scummy.

--

DH's 190 has a staggering level of bullshit, are we reading the same thread?

where has Meran been scummy other than the rolefishing (referencing your post at 148)?

His early game unwillingness to discuss Hydra. His RVS (or what I assume) on Parama, then backing off without any real scum suspects when the game was in full speed suspicion mode. Also, his unwillingness to join the kondi (or, rather, ANY other wagon) to scumhunt or pressure. Stays quiet until kondi townslips. Asks some hollow questions to Parama and I.

He has a trend of picking up an argument for a post or two, then putting it down and forgetting it forever. He asks questions in which he never uses the information. It just seems too spaced out and hollow.

The Hydra discussion was pointless WIFOM bullshit. Since when is choosing not to wagon a scumtell? Additionally, from what I've seen Meransiel doesn't drop his arguments, actually. And I don't see why not immediately using information from questions is scummy. Asking questions period is more often than not protown.

If you’ve been ‘iffy’ on Hydra as scum (which the use of the word still implies) why didn’t you ISO him before hopping on his wagon?

I'm iffy on his towniness. His RVS votes have a kind of dissonance to them. Voting kondi, but suspecting Almaster and yosarian (the latter with no reasoning whatsoever) kind of rang as awful to me. He's done nothing but defend himself and do things that lack town motivation; he doesn't scumhunt. He's stubborn with requests. He just got off to a bad start and hasn't done anything to improve.

I'm less suspicious of Hydra now because he HAS been scumhunting, actually. Did you miss his stellar point about AGM?

I agree that the first paragraph is suspicious. Seems a little...streching.

The second one I'm just not seeing. Hydra

up to that point of time

had not been doing a whole lot of scumhunting. Lately, however he's been playing very well.

Spoiler: Iecerint

I think DH is probably the Neighbor-scum, if there is one (not sure there is if RC co-modded the set-up -- I would assume a scum if Amrun had done it herself). That vote for Hydra is horrible. There is literally no case on Hydra.

@Iecerint:Why is DH's vote for Hydra scummier than Parama's? Or anyone else on that wagon?

I went looking through your iso for any other reasons why he might be scum. Guess what? There isn't any.

That was helpful. Basically in order of quality of argument it's PBuG, Saporovirus then Iecerint, with PBuG being by far the most convincing.

In fact Iecerint's reasoning is so bad, I actually find it slightly scummy when you look at the opportunistic nature of this latest vote.

FOS Iecerint

Vote will stay on Sensfan for the moment though.

[TBuG]

earworm, my last completed game is over three years ago so I can't honestly give you a meta case on that, my apologies.

[Amrun]

Snow White and AlmasterGM have been prodded. (SensFan has not picked up his prod yet.)

No vote count today because there's one on this page.

[Iecerint]

Earworm, my DH vote has nothing (directly) to do with the quote you just listed. Your quote is picked from my catch-up whereas my vote is basically sheeping PBuG. As such, I have not compared DH's vote to Parama's or anyone else's.

The reason I pointed out DH's vote in my catch-up post was probably that I was having very pro-Hydra thoughts around that time. Looking back, I don't think Parama's vote is really much different than DH's; both unvoted Kondi and posted about him while voting Hydra.

My biggest scumread is still on Hrezszs, who is lurking and not going to be lynched by all accounts. I think his few posts are particularly scummy because they basically repeat what others say while passing it off as his own thoughts and show little to no interest in finding scums.