Mini 1199 - Plissken's Pit [GAME OVER]

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Internet Stranger

Stranger danger!

[PeregrineV]

Vote: PeregrineV

That was a shitty joke, and you know it.

Yeah, he's probably heard it a million times, but since I've never got to use it yet.....
So, yeah.

[PeregrineV]

@Rikana- Your avatar cracks me up, but you really gotta put a reason for your vote, so that the votee and others can see why you voted.

Unvote.
Vote: Rikana

For voting with out giving a reason, twice.

[PeregrineV]

UNVOTE VOTE BRISTEP

1. Happy Birthday!!
2. C'mon, people, explain your votes!

[PeregrineV]

UNVOTE VOTE BRISTEP

1. Happy Birthday!!
2. C'mon, people, explain your votes!

1. Thank you
2. Can't you see it for yourself?

1. You're welcome.
2. I suppose, but days into the game when people read back and see the votes, they might not see the context, in which case it looks scummy.

[PeregrineV]

1) How many games of Mafia have you played?
2) Do you prefer to play as scum or town?

1. I think about 30 or so.
2. I love being vanilla town. I love the role since it's so pure in that you don't have to make any night action decisions. You just do pure scumhunting. And if you get NKed, then at least you weren't a PR.

[PeregrineV]

Reread (such as it is) coming probably Tuesday or Wednesday.

Happy Fourth of July everybody!

[PeregrineV]

Malp is still scum.

@Emp- Can you explain this?

@Rikana- I've been watching the byplay between you and Britep, but BeautyUndead also directed some questions to you.
Are you ignoring her on purpose, or did you just miss them?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p3178396

[PeregrineV]

Nothing new to add at this point. Still want to hear from Rikana and replacement.

@Emp- But, you never really gave a reason the first time...

@Malp- What's up with this?

I'm sick of that, Emp. Honestly, don't try that again.

[PeregrineV]

I can go for a malp lynch. But I don't think smalls should be able to get away day 1 without contributing anything. I'm waiting

This made me check Smalls. I know activity has been low, but not going to NL and not lynching Malp for asking people to unvote (I've seen town and scum do it, so attribute it to play-style).

Unvote. Vote=Smallpeoples

Will check later tonight also.

[PeregrineV]

Vote: EmpKing

[PeregrineV]

@Sky, Yabba, Swift- Glad you noticed.

@EmpKing- why Fighting? More info plz.

@JAM- I see what you're saying about Rikana, but I thought he had more than malp related posts.

More after I do some work :bleh:

[PeregrineV]

Sorry about that guys- boss was in town so meetings and work cut into mafia time. Catching up now.

[PeregrineV]

Not sure there was anything addressed to me, but the EmpKing vote accomplished what it was supposed to do-get him to post something besides votes. Will look for more of that later.

Unvote.
Vote:SomeRandomGuy

It sounds like your defending your V/LA timeline, which makes no sense to me. Maybe it's just the tone of the posts, but not liking them.

FoS:Smallpeoples replacement

Am I to understand your replacing out because you think people hate you? NM, I'll go find the quote.

It seems that I've gotten everyone to hate me, despite the fact that some of them didn't care. This is all biased against me anyways, so if you guys want me out, then good-bye.

Translation- "I overlurked as scum but don't want screw over my buddies, so I'm leaving."

The

only

reason your not getting the vote is because mod confirmed replacing you. If your replacement doesn't ooze town, I may start Operation Tunnelvision.


yabba-town+
rikana-town-
Jam,sky,swift-nulltown
Emp,Fighting,IntStrange-nullscum
random-scum-
smalls-scum+

[PeregrineV]

Translation- "I overlurked as scum but don't want screw over my buddies, so I'm leaving."

Try: "Geez, people are going to want me lynched and I'm afraid of that." This nullifies and speculatively Town-tilts my read on him, personally. I agree that a) he knows he really fucked up his slot b) his internal thought is that he might get lynched for it - but I don't see how that's scum indicative. He is a detriment to whatever faction he's affiliated with, ergo, it's null.

---

I mean, with SRG, it's what I thought, it's more the

absence

of anything Town in content. The V/LA. which I think is legitimately being thrown into question, is how he's explaining away all his mushiness.

---

I wonder if I can chart the game out. VCA

It's the words used. It seems like it's an attempt to get pity, shame us, and guilt us all at once.
Anyways, replacement has a chance.

"It seems that I've

gotten everyone to hate me

, despite the fact that

some of them didn't care.

This is all

biased against me

anyways, so

if you guys want me out, then good-bye

."

(bold is mine)

Love a good VCA, but yeah, need more days (or at least more vote activity).

[PeregrineV]

Hi all, at work right now but will get a proper post in tonight.

Off-Topic: Love your books!!
The Lies of Locke Lamora
Red Seas Under Red Skies

Yes, this is a plug. Read them! They're good!

On-Topic: Welcome! Are you scum?

[PeregrineV]

My favorite pasttime: calling this obv masculine person LoLa.

"It seems that I've gotten everyone to hate me, despite the fact that

some of them didn't care

. This is all biased against me anyways, so if you guys want me out, then good-bye."

Wait Peregrine - doesn't this suggest he's trying to say scum don't care, they just want him mislynched? For someone who's replacing out and is now detached from the result, that is a wicked Town thing to say.

I think you're reading this through blinders. Don't marry yourself to the possibility that he's scumslipped, I've had some abusive relationships with false scumslips in the past. If anything - I think that is uberTown.

I don't know. Honestly, he sounds like he's talking to himself, then to his mother in the same sentence. Then, to the general public, then to the players in this game. And it sounds like he's complaining that if you don't hate him then you don't care about him, and that's a good thing.

Either way, this sounds more like it would come from my brother while playing Monopoly right before he flipped the board up and ran away than from someone in a online forum game.

[PeregrineV]

@Peregrine

Not sure there was anything addressed to me, but the EmpKing vote accomplished what it was supposed to do-get him to post something besides votes. Will look for more of that later.

Yes there was something addressed to you, and I'm not sure I buy that reasoning, what made you think that by placing that vote no explanation would mean that he would then post something besides just votes?

I didn't think it would, and don't think it did, but he's talking more (relatively), so that works for me.

[PeregrineV]

Bristep wanted you and BU dead.

I can thrive on his legacy.

You did realize that saying this was going to cause a re-read, right?

And that when we re-read Bristep, we're going to have questions, like "What do you mean, Rikana?"

And you would have to point to specific Bristep posts that support you claim that Bristep wants IntStrng and BU (who is yabba) dead. Like this one.

But, we're also going to read everything else Britep said.
You: Post 66
Him: Post 67
You: Post 69
Him: Post 71
You: Post 110
Him: Post 112

So, to match your translation of his "legacy", I need you to point out
1. Where he wants Internet Stranger dead.
2. Where he wants BeautyUndead (yabbaguy) dead.
3. Why is looks like your trying to buddy up to Bristep

post mortum

, esp. given the only record we have of your interactions indicates suspicion and voting of one another.

[PeregrineV]

@Rikana- The slot is occupied by the player. I thought Smalls scummy- Locke posted, but promised more. As for the slot of player #10 being scum, I have no idea, that's why there is an actual player in there. The reads provided by the player, whoever they are, will hopefully tell us the role they play (town or scum).

With that being said:

Unovte.
Vote:Rikana

Why are you blatantly ignoring this post: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p3270841 ?

[PeregrineV]

So you are saying what I'm saying.

I doubt it, since I don't know what your saying.

That's scummy. The slot should be scummy because the player is scummy.

Wrong, the slot is scummy if the slot is scummy. This is usually determined by the player. When players replace out as town or mafia, and new players come in, if they act town or act scummy, it doesn't change their role in the game.

If you know that the player is scummy,

I opine that Smalls "goodbye" message was scummy, so kind of yes.

but the slot is not scum,

This part is unknown to me. Do you know for a fact it is not scum?

hence you voting Smalls but FoSing his slot,

Half right. Never voted Smalls. FoS the slot based on Smalls.

you must be scum for knowing such details.

What details? The only details have been provided by you that Smalls/Locke is not scum based on .....what?

I didn't ignore it. I missed it. Sheesh.

Ok

Maybe I did ignore it because you said we, when you have now stated that I haven't read it. I dunno.

Not sure what you meant, but the "we" was not a royal "we". It was "we" the other (non-Rikana) players.

3. Why is looks like your trying to buddy up to Bristep post mortum, esp. given the only record we have of your interactions indicates suspicion and voting of one another.

Because he's dead and he was town.

If I believe that someone was scum but was town, my reads are screwed up somewhere. I believe by looking at Bristep's reads, someone who could not have been a random kill, I will find scum.

OK, I get this. But in the re-read of Bristep, he appears to suspect you. If your plan is to "take up his legacy", then it starts with you.

2. Where he wants BeautyUndead (yabbaguy) dead.

Considering I, BU, Smalls, and IS were his highest FoS that are alive, I believe that is why.

Do I need to show you where he suspects them, or can you do something that might help?

I've dropped BU anyway. I believe he may be incorrect there, or not have an as large FoS. I know he's wrong about Smalls, because this is how he always plays(pst badly). IS I can agree with, and I'm town by way of my own role P.M. and actions.

I read through, in isolation and as a part of the thread. What I see, and pointed out in the previous post, was where Bristep suspects you. So what do you want my help doing exactly? Explaining why he suspected you? I think it's becoming self-evident at this point.

[PeregrineV]

@Yabba- Summary:

Rikana: I will follow in PlayerX footsteps and go after PlayerY.
Me: Hmm (re-read PlayerX). It looks like PlayerX was more suspicious of you than PlayerY. Why was that?
Rikana: stuff
Me: Why ignore me?
Rikana: "I didn't ignore it. I missed it. Sheesh. Maybe I did ignore it because you said we, when you have now stated that I haven't read it. I dunno."
Me:

And frankly the more he dodges, the worse I take it. Don't dodge, just answer.

Also,
@Locke- you said more. We want more.

@EmpKing- I see what you did there...

@Sky- If Rikana answers you, then send her over to me.

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine: I can't find why you think Rikana following Bristep's ideas is actually scummy. I get that you think the idea is flawed, but I don't see the progression to why it's scummy.

Because when I read his posts, it looked like Rikana was Bristep's biggest suspect, and that's what I'm now asking about.

@Rikana- Awesome! Start typing!!

[PeregrineV]

Sweet merciful Jesus.

I don't know whether to shit or go blind.

Rikana, are you even reading the thread? Do you know what you are typing? I can respond to you but am not sure you will even comprehend it.

Dayvig: Rikana

God, that felt good!!!

[PeregrineV]

^Is that a genuine action?

No, but I've never wanted it to be more true than now.

Can you explain quickly why I shouldn't put him in his place, even though it may take 2 hours of time and 20 posts (I'll keep them small with small words so he can understand them).

[PeregrineV]

@Yabba- fine. I'll make my Rikana case, but I don't think I'll be having conversations with him anymore, unless it's to vote him out of existence.

Re: JAM & SRG- Yes, it was a horrible hammer, but SRG had some crappy play before that, and was my second choice. His post-hammer play has improved, but JAM has been working to explain himself.

Re: InternetStranger- Sure, still think he's scummy, but since Rikana wants him dead I'm starting to like him.

Fine, you're right. Deep breath.
Refocus.

[PeregrineV]

I will give him a few hours to squirm some more and see if he will finger his buddies for us.

Yes, but only a few.

[PeregrineV]

N1 action, JAM?

The fact that this was not claimed at the same time as the JK claim makes me highly inclined to disbelieve said claim.

The few hours were to see if he would do this on his own, and explain why that info was not given initially.

[PeregrineV]

The thread is up for a re-read, to see if I can find something less obvious.

Would also like to hear from Locke & FightingShadow today, but understand since my weekend just ended too....

[PeregrineV]

@Yabba- I've looked over all the posts about whatever it is you guys are talking about, but not seeing the lie part. I saw something about intent, but not sure how it's possible to lie about intent.
But, A Swift Iso left me unimpressed & yabba vote seems OMGUS-y. You have anything more to go on please give.

@Locke- Well presented case on Sky, and good followup. I want to hear Sky's response.
However Sky does ask a good question to a major scum candidate, who has yet to respond.

@Swift- I don't get the Yabba case. Since I tend to like his playsyle and reads, your going to need something WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY more solid than the OMGUS.

@SRG- Thoughts on Rikana, Sky, Swift?

@Mod- I like the "day start" prods, as I find myself losing track of my games when they go into night.

p-edit: Yabba case!!

[PeregrineV]

Why Swiftstrike?

1. Swiftstrike quickly asks me "
   if you think you're right
   about those 4, then you can lynch them all,
   why not vote
   ?" This is scummy because it suggests impatience, wanting me to just vote all those people in the orange.
   
2. When probed, Swiftstrike replies that the post was meant to convey "I see Town amongst the orange,
   I don't think that list is right [a vote would be wrong]
   " - a direct contradiction to the previous which said, "come on, if you think you're right, vote!" Why would he backtrack?
   
3. Ergo, a scummy post and a scummy reversal.

1. Wouldn't you ask the same question of him, why he's not voting?
2. @Swift- do you see town among the Orange on the Yabba list? If so, who, and why?

@Yabba & Swift- if not voting each other, who would you vote? And why?

lol another p-edit

[PeregrineV]

@Yabba- I had a response typed up, but will save as draft until I get responses to 528, as that will help my response.

But he's orange too. And what motivation would he have as scum to say anything, when it would bring attention to him and possibly get him lynched?

But I think I kind of get it.....

[PeregrineV]

I don't know who I'd back up with. Everything's conditional on this flip.

Now it sounds like a trap!

OK, since voting is good

Vote: Swiftstrike

[PeregrineV]

A trap is a version of a reaction test where you gain reads from the reactions of other players, but is more involved than a simple vote or fake claim. Not really seen one used on this site before, but that's what it sounds like.

As for the rest of your answers, I'll have to go back and verify your statements. Will respond after that. (Hint: Links=goodness )

[PeregrineV]

@Yabba- Yes, but what you are calling a scumtell (inconsistency between post content) is the same thing Swift is calling you out about (inconsistency between post content). I'm only leaning to your side because I'm fairly certain your town, and Swift was more "hasn't done anything until now" type null. Can you connect him to anything or anyone else?

Tend to agree with day2 IS (where the hell were you day1?) you are overreacting somewhat.

@Swift- I read your case with links (thank you), but Swift day1 has no Yabba mention, but does have a town JAM case. Can you convincingly connect Yabba to anything or anyone else, and why was he ignored by you day1?

@Sky- Well worded answer, but it sounds mostly like "yeah, my bad".

Unvote.
Vote: Sky

I'd really like to hear your thoughts on the Yabba/Swift thing. And also your thoughts on Rikana and Fighting.

[PeregrineV]

Taking Sky claim at face value for now.

Unvote.

Gunsmith on this site.

[PeregrineV]

Unvote

Fuck.

How the fuck is he town.

This shitty game.

Unvote, Vote: PeregrineV

Especially after the loss of wanting me dead from the climax of yesterday.

Thank God!!!

It's not just me. I felt yesterday was in no way resolved.

Vote: Rikana

Either you believe the gunsmith claim or you don't. If you do, then IS has to be town. If you don't then Sky is scum. Yet your vote didn't move.
Either way, I am so much happier to be voting where I know scum truly is.

@Sky- You mentioned Rikana a few times in your posts, but I can't find his response to you anywhere. Can you repeat them in a effort to elicit an answer from him? And contributing more than "my bad" would be good too.

@Locke- Thoughts on Sky claim? Thoughts on Rikana, esp. regarding day1 conversations and day2 information.

@Yabba- please point me in the direction of three of Rikana's town vibe posts, and three scumvibe posts. Help me see what you say you see, because I'm not seeing it.

@Swift, IS, SRG- Thoughts on Rikana

@Fighting- Are you scum? Useless town? Inactive? Where the hell are you?

[PeregrineV]

Back to work.

Cases tonight/tomorrow.

[PeregrineV]

Rikana has had to go V/LA effective now. He won't be back before Sunday. He might need a replacement, but for now I'm holding the spot.

Unvote.

@Locke- In addition to Yabba's stuff, can you also explain how or why you don't believe Sky's gunsmith claim (as you are still voting him)?

@Sky- I'll work up the whole post-quote thing if need be, but my question to you right now is why are you constantly asking Rikana questions, he's constantly ignoring you, and when you take a side in the debate, it's his?

[PeregrineV]

Still does not explain how JAM and I are scumbuddies, I need more reason out of you. If it's because we joined a wagon at the same time, you'll notice that that's painfully obvious and our posts times are identical. I had no knowledge of JAM's decision. I do find it suspicious that JAM keeps calling out IS yet makes no move to vote for him.

Still waiting on Rikana to give reason to his arguments.

What Internet Stranger said, the post, or for that matter, most posts where you make accusations but not back them up. Here's a question I'll spell out for you:

Rikana: why are JAM and I scumbuddies?

Oh, here's another

Rikana: why is PeregrineV to, "die next."

Rikana still needs to elaborate.

If you aren't directly calling me scum then Rikana, what the hell are you doing?

One more question for Rikana, why were you so intent on carrying out the "legacy" of Bristep after you found him suspicious yesterday?

And then Rikana.... I know I have some pretty backward logic here, but here me out. He has been off the two wagons that lynched our fellow citizens malp and JAM. Naturally, this is town behavior since he wasn't in on getting town killed. But he never really gives clear reasons for why they weren't scum, he says malp is an easy mislynch and I don't even know what he said about JAM, if he said anything at all, but he didn't go for it, he was conveniently fighting with Peregrine. It seems to me that Rikana has been avoiding the town lynching wagons in order to appear like she isn't scum.

Rikana, may you please explain that quote and its relevance right now?

Omitting my case against her, where she is basically a suspect of Bristep, but ignores any attempts to discuss why he suspected her. But it's around page 17 I think.

TODAY

It's not just me. I felt yesterday was in no way resolved.

Vote: Rikana

Either you believe the gunsmith claim or you don't. If you do, then IS has to be town. If you don't then Sky is scum. Yet your vote didn't move.
Either way, I am so much happier to be voting where I know scum truly is.

Rikana I think is the hardest person to read here. Part of me says he's scum, part says he's town. I really have no idea. I think if I were to live another night I'd inspect him.

I'm looking at Peregrine right now. He's been vote hopping today like mad, and now he's started his whole tunneling on Rikana again. Like myself, he has also been an underground sort of character. I feel that his attack on Rikana yesterday was him finding a way to justify getting off the SRG wagon and he states hardly any reasons why JAM was innocent, and conviently distracted himself with Rikana.

Vote: PeregrineV

And the reason I unvoted him is because the mod has him V/LA and possible replacement. So, unless we use only current evidence, he's not hear to talk about or ignore us anymore. While I think lynching scum Rikana is a great idea, no one else does. So we postpone it.

And Locke makes a point.
And you haven't yet.

VOTE: Sky

So, let's here your reason she can ignore you all game and you seem to ignore it.

[PeregrineV]

I'll be out of town and posting/reading will be null/minimal during this time.

V/LA Friday Aug 12 to Mon Aug 15

[PeregrineV]

Back from V/LA.

Will be doing a re-read since it's a short thread.

@Mod- Rikana/replacement update?

None yet, working on it.

[PeregrineV]

Yesterday was No Lynch, and while looking over the thread and vote counts, I realized there was one for the end of day3. So I looked up the votes and am posting this for our use.

End of Day 3 - Unofficial Vote Count IV

1. SomeRandomGuy
2. Internet Stranger
3. yabbaguy
4. PeregrineV L-3 (Rikana, Sky)
5. David Xanatos L-2 - (Internet Stranger, yabbaguy, Swiftstrike)
6. Rikana
8. Swiftstrike
10. Locke Lamora
13. Sky L-2 (Locke Lamora, PeregrineV, David Xanatos)

Not Voting SomeRandomGuy

I have some questions, but they will be in a separate post.

[PeregrineV]

If <insert your top scum pick> is scum, who is their partners? If they flip town, who is the real scum?

Right now, it would be you for Rikana's ducking, dodging, misrepping and generally superscummy play. I'm not going to rehash it, since you're here to specifically NOT be him, but I also highly suspect David & Locke for their yesterday vote and then first thing today actions.

Rikana (now Ant)
David/Locke (one or both)- It looks worse when you take the combination of their posts into account than if you look at each person separately.

The whole yabba/swift thing is around here in terms of my reads, and they would get a re-read depending on who above is scum.

Who are you top suspects? ie- your own answers to your questions.

[PeregrineV]

Great game all!!
Have to agree with Ant. The vig not using his shots doesn't make sense, esp. given how "certain" Rikana was.

@Yabba- good call on Swift. I've seen worse cases, but I couldn't follow you on that one for obvious reasons.

@Swift & SRG - great game and good communication overall. SRG don't worry about the V/LA, it happens to us all.

@Snake- The game went smoothly. There were parts where it slowed up, but thank God it didn't die completely like some other games. I also liked the pictures- way cool.
Thanks for modding!!

[PeregrineV]

Oh, and I'm OK with scum QT being posted.

[PeregrineV]

I still don't get how I was ever called scummy. "White knight" succumbed to what I personally call the BBQ Fallacy - trying to use a meaningless acronym or buzzword in an attempt to explain everything when it explains nothing. I'm glad a lynch never went through, because the only cases on me were impossible ones.

You know, this is why I feel Mafia is all random bullshit. One game a tell was right, the next it steers you hopelessly the wrong way, such as SRG's genuine-sounding fake-out at L-1. And since there's never a damn indication one way or the other, one always gets it hopelessly wrong. But I find Deal or No Deal really fun, so I like this as well.

Honestly, I feel part of the game is separating the chaff from the bullshit to arrive at some sort of conclusion. And when you're town, I find arriving at a conclusion the hardest thing to do. So part of what makes the game fun is the uncertainty and trying to do better next time.

For example, as town I've lynched the doc day1 in two games for his lurky/dodgy behavior.

I now think that the doc player in general is trying to play under the radar to be more effective, so now I have to incorporate that into my scumhunting.