Mini 1199 - Plissken's Pit [GAME OVER]

[Swiftstrike]

Vote Bristep

lets get this vote out of the way early.

[Swiftstrike]

lol used the 2 different tags.. VOTE: empking

Chris?

[Swiftstrike]

UNVOTE

VOTE JAMFTW

Coming in trying to match tone with other posters and just being careful not to stand out, hey scum.

[Swiftstrike]

UNVOTE VOTE BRISTEP

[Swiftstrike]

UNVOTE VOTE BRISTEP

1. Happy Birthday!!
2. C'mon, people, explain your votes!

1. Thank you
2. Can't you see it for yourself?

[Swiftstrike]

I suppose if Rikana and Swift are scum together then they wouldn't want explain their votes.

2. I suppose, but days into the game when people read back and see the votes, they might not see the context, in which case it looks scummy.

Oh it's going to be one of *those* games. Joy of Joys.

Because it's his birthday,

UNVOTE Vote Swiftstrike

. Voting me in RVS, then conveniently jumping back on when someone else does without either person giving a reason.

The empty unexplained vote causing you a bit of trouble there Bristep, first we see Peregrine coming in to ask why you had a empty vote on you having not questioned your opening post which had an empty vote in or Empking empty vote on JAMFTW or Rikana early empty vote. So why the sudden switch in questioning an empty vote, so I added another empty vote to see what happens and low and behold it gets questioned. And now you need to give two reasons to vote me as to not have your vote be accused of being empty this time I'm guessing.

[Swiftstrike]

I know, I nicked the idea from the double scum game. I suppose it's a little bit lazyitis to be using it and just see what happened with it.

[Swiftstrike]

Hi There Chris, it was the avatar that gave it away and even then I wasn't sure as you changed it recently anyway. As for a vote gift, no thanks you, the only gift I'm waiting for right now is a new episode of ZTLIS.

[Swiftstrike]

Certainly it sounds like one.

anyway back to a cooler vote

Unvote Vote JAMFTW

I would like to see some reasoning behind the matching tone of the first post there.

[Swiftstrike]

1) How many games of Mafia have you played?
2) Do you prefer to play as scum or town?

1) This is pretty much all in my Wiki for anyone to check, but there is the 9 games offsite and 2 completed games onsite and 1 onsite that is probably considered completed but I'm not 100% sure so won't reference yet.
2)Hard question, I have had a run of scum games before this so did get use to playing scum and being aware of what was going on behind the scenes, but I prefer the puzzle solving of trying to work out who is mafia, Probably in the end have to go for option 3 as the game I was serial killer was my favourite alignment as I got to scum hunt and play behind the curtain. So it was the most fun to play (didn't hurt I won that game)

[Swiftstrike]

Certainly it sounds like one.

anyway back to a cooler vote

Unvote Vote JAMFTW

I would like to see some reasoning behind the matching tone of the first post there.

What tone? The playful, "Lolz, ai is random voting gaiz!" tone? Because the answer is in my question. Seems somewhat self-explanatory, really.

It's not the random voting thing it's choosing to do it in a way that mirrors the votes before you, it's a good way to look to be just another regular townie and for scum to try and hide.

Anyway how about adding a little more when you come back and post next time, start by answering some random guys questions or by coming up with some of your own.

[Swiftstrike]

@JAMFTW done my favourite role already with the other bits, but if you were thinking that this game would be beyond 4 pages how did you figure that would happen without input and crossing some old ground anyway your vote is still on malps for him to "come out and play" and yet 3 posts by you late you haven't referred to your vote even after he did post since, are you still thinking this is where your vote should be is this still random or is it something more serious now.

Anyway this thread needs some Sky and some more fighting shadow.

Unvote Vote Sky

Let's get us everyone posting shall we.

[Swiftstrike]

@Emp I didn't answer as it had already been answered there but if you want confirmation Some Random Guy did, like I referred to in post 75

Anyway how about adding a little more when you come back and post next time, start by answering

some random guys

questions or by coming up with some of your own.

my punctuation needs work there, but I already referred to him being the poster who raised the questions.

[Swiftstrike]

Okay vote isn't doing anything there until Monday then.

Unvote

[Swiftstrike]

@Emp

who killed the game by asking who killed the game with random questions?

Also

@Mod could we have a vote count please.

[Swiftstrike]

@malpascp

do you believe there is scum on your wagon and if so who do you think is the scum that is voting for you?

Vote Somerandomguy

Give me some update on where you are as I'm struggling to read you position in this game.

[Swiftstrike]

First housekeeping

@Mod I'm V/LA for this weekend

Next Emp I got to agree with Malp that is the second horrible post from you and your ISO isn't much of a read so far either

Also Malp do you think you could address the following that I asked before I come back from V/LA

@malpascp

do you believe there is scum on your wagon and if so who do you think is the scum that is voting for you?

[Swiftstrike]

First housekeeping

@Mod I'm V/LA for this weekend

Next Emp I got to agree with Malp that is the second horrible post from you and your ISO isn't much of a read so far either

What was the point in posting this?

Your right I should have just quoted you and gone this is terribad posting. But the reason I posted it is that I don't think you scum but I do think you are adding nothing to the game.
--

@malpascp

do you believe there is scum on your wagon and if so who do you think is the scum that is voting for you?

On my wagon? Probabily Empking is scum. Call it OMGUS if you want.

Malps the reason I asked you is that you are voting for JAMFTW and have been doing so since the start of the game and yet have not made a reference to him, so I expected you to say that you suspected him. Why if you think EMP is the most likely scum are you voting for JAMFTW? A case of trying to distance yourselves when vote count analysis comes up later?

FOS MALPS

I'll give this around 12 hours or so before turning this into a vote to try get everyone to come in.
--

@Bristep

Are you really trying to throw a vote and a reason to hop off the wagon quickly in the same post?

underlined

@MOD Sorry Snake, I didn't see you'd added that.

vote malpascp

now that I know it's not going to send him to L1.

@Yabba - I didn't think Rik was playing as two players in game, I just wanted to know if he might be playing other games on MS right now with another account. RE his "I forgot about this game" comment when he actually hadn't participated in any game for 3/4 days up to that point (post history shows a gap of 3-4 days I forget exactly how many), seemed like he just hadn't been around rather than he forgot which would make it a lie about the reason for inactivity. As regards the lulzy play, yeah I see your point that it looks like someone trying to be lulzy without a huge amount of experience. The last post asking smallpeople for reads on everyone could be a good way to jump onto the current target de jour and seem townie, but then the last person who I saw doing the whole "I want reads of everyone from you" stuff (which I hate, because unless you're 100% right scum can use it to pick people apart either now or later on) was town so I dunno on him.

As regards smallpeople again right now all we have on him is lurking. That isn't a definite D1 scumtell on it's own, and while his last "I have nothing to say" post isn't good town play it isn't exactly good scum play either. Are you saying that we should threaten to lynch him to encourage participation, or are you actually calling for his head? Because you seem to imply both during your post.

@IS I don't think I've ever played a game with you when your D1 tunnel read was correct. Can you point me in the direction of any? Seriously, because I really don't want to unvote malp but the fact that you're pushing it makes me worry.

[Swiftstrike]

Well I won't hammer this just yet with randomguy and FS still to post contense in the last few days so instead I'll crank some pressure onthee competing wagon for now

Unvote
Vote smallpeoples

[Swiftstrike]

Well I came back on to hammer if needed. Bristep point on smallpeople is interesting and the fact IS wants bother look means I'll hold off a little while longer.

[Swiftstrike]

It's time to put an end to this day

Unvote
Vote Malps

And that's the hammer.

[Swiftstrike]

Aw it's sky post previosly about moving to L-1 that threw me I didn't even bother checking Malps in the vote counts after that.

[Swiftstrike]

Smalls hammer vote at the end of the last day was awful, but it was almost to awful to have come from scum, so I'm leaning town there. Where as
I approve of this voting for Jam his day 1 play was suspicious and the quote Chris raises is suspicious based on JAM own push on Rikana over certainly of language. Where I would read the Rikana thing as null (due to use of language) as they are both certain of Malps town flip as they claim to have been over a bristep scum flip.

Vote JAMFTW

I would also be interested in Peregrine's explanation for his vote this day phase as it is a strange vote after the day 1 call of explaining votes.

It would also be really good to get some FS input into the thread as I want to get a feeling as to where he is.

[Swiftstrike]

Sorry guys been a little busy, try to catch up here. PREVIEW EDIT, Sorry this is more of a wall than I expected to do I've bolded out specific people to points.

First Emp wagon is hugely horrible

Day 2 - Votecount I

12.

Empking - L3

(JAMFTW, PeregrineV, Sky)

In Peregrine have a empty vote from the guy bemoaning the earlier empty votes, Then Sky questions in the same post as jumping the wagon and a vote from the scummiest guy in the game Jam, when not finding purchase in a counter wagon elsewhere. This wagon needs to either die or get itself some explanations as this is horrid.

Now back to regular programming
--

@YABBA

›

Swiftstrike

- Sounded Town and contributes well - but the remark about smallpeoples' hammer being scummy is totally out of place when he thought he was going to be hammering himself. It's a nitpick, so he stays in the green.

The reason I said his hammer looked scummy is that it was coming off like a total self preservation lynch. Malps pulled the same stunt after I looked to see what would happen if I pressurised the other wagon, in hoping the wagon with no talk of why he was getting on it which makes the hammer from Smalls fishy as it was, well even worse as it was nothing but the hammer no reasoning or anything behind it.[/quote]
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@RIKANA

Sure, fine, that's the way you play. Whatever. But semantics? Really?

In a game that revolves around reading into, and dissecting, words, what people say, and how they say it, you don't think language can come into play?

Having said that, how about contributing to the discussions instead of acting all defensive?

Usually semantics don't find scum.

You haven't contributed in your accusations, so don't play hypocrite.

Btw. I think the scum were scared of Bristep after further investigations, and not trying to frame. Perhaps frame was secondary, but it wasn't the primary reason for Bristep dying.

Bristep BU and IS dead.

Further investigation notes that IS is how Yabba is calling him out.

Therefore, I can do this.

Unvote, Vote: InternetStranger

@rikana could you explain the italic bits as I'm reading it and just not getting it. How would the scum investigate and night kill in day 1 and just what does it mean, also BU I take it is Beauty Undead who replaced out and is not dead and IS is with us so that most just has me a mess of confused.

--

@Smalls

answer to this in your next post please

(Times are GMT, I'm aware they'll be different for other people..)

Sunday 5.35am

I'm here.

Sunday 9.24pm

I'm "lurking" because I have nothing to say.

Tuesday 12.16pm

I'm back! I seemed to have not declared my V/LA in any of my games in MafiaScum.

Which was it? Were you here and lurking because you have nothing to say, or were you on V/LA?

[Swiftstrike]

@SKY

I'm not sure what more info I can give you there.

I dislike Peregrine vote, it's the complete opposite of what he was calling players for before, if anything it looks like an attempt to follow tone and as a 1st day post it might have been all right (but I'd disagree with it) if there was some follow up in his following post but there wasn't and this is 4 1/2 days passed without a extra comment on this so that is why that is a bad vote.

Your vote is a strange given your questioning of Peregrine vote and calling Emp the person you suspect more without listing anything that is scummy in your post that does it, so I dislike that vote.

But the person I suspect more is Empking. I dismissed his minimalism Day 1, it being Day 1. But now it's Day 2 and he's determined to lynch Shadow, who has finally joined us. He has called him out for this:

Very happy with my vote now. That last post looks like scum catch up (its length though not being insightful). His vote also looks convenient.

While Shadow could be joining the IS bandwagon, it isn't as if Empking has been doing anything much insightful. He constantly votes with no explanation, and when there is one, it's minimal at best. I realize I haven't been insightful either, so call me a hypocrite, whatever, I'm lazy.

vote: Empking

And I still want to hear from Peregrine because this is silly:

@Sky, Yabba, Swift- Glad you noticed.

And JAM which can be

@JAM

as well
"Because he's added next to nothing to the conversation."
Third vote to a wagon with that and then explained with this
"Empking and smallpeoples have both been less productive than me. I may not be hunting that well myself, but at least I get people talking, even if it is about me."
Where is the scum play. You seem to have got annoyed that you are being pushed for similar reasons as EMP and Smalls without giving any sort of reason to push them. Do you just not want to be the first accused lurker to be lynched or do you have some more to this.

Also as I can now talk safely about it with the end of the team mafia your first post reminds me so much of this first post from me. l

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3044225

And I was scum and caught caught out straight away and tried to brush it off like you did. This is why I pulled you on your first post and you haven't seemed any less scummy to me since.

[Swiftstrike]

@IS

This was going to be the basis of a question I planned to ask someone else

This may not be the only game he is pulling that crap in,

hence my question of him being a troll ALT.

So I read your ISO to check where you asked this question, can you point it out as this is the only time you use ALT in you ISO that I can see.

@Peregrine

Not sure there was anything addressed to me, but the EmpKing vote accomplished what it was supposed to do-get him to post something besides votes. Will look for more of that later.

Yes there was something addressed to you, and I'm not sure I buy that reasoning, what made you think that by placing that vote no explanation would mean that he would then post something besides just votes?

[Swiftstrike]

@IS you think you could answer this rather than ignoring it.

@IS

This was going to be the basis of a question I planned to ask someone else

This may not be the only game he is pulling that crap in,

hence my question of him being a troll ALT.

So I read your ISO to check where you asked this question, can you point it out as this is the only time you use ALT in you ISO that I can see.

[Swiftstrike]

Prod dodging post for the moment. Will be back on this evening for some serious catch up. Sorry guys.

[Swiftstrike]

BURN WITH FIRE

*Sigh*

In my defense (not that there's any excuses for lynching early), I was speed reading, and had mixed up this game with the one taking place over on the Weave, where there was about an hour or two until deadline. Not sure how the switch happened in my head, but there you have it.

I doubt scum will NK me now, with all the help I just gave myself for the lynch for "tomorrow."

I'll do what I can tonight to lessen the damage

I've caused. I doubt I'll be able to pull this around in time, but here's hoping I can help out during the next day.

I still don't like the way EMP is playing. I'm not sure if that's how he plays all the time, but he's added next to nothing to the overall convo for this game.

Also, that is the second time Rikana has shown arrogance at others trying to get him/her lynched, as if the prospect is laughable. Doesn't quite sit well with me, but I'm sure most of what I say from this moment on will be ignored.

Re reading there was no posts about needing to quickly push a lynch or anything so I ain't buying this speed reading confusion stuff but look at this post from when he thought he had hammered, he is already setting up for a false claim the next day as there is no reason to post this and going oh but I won't be killed tonight expect to add WIFOM to any night actions when he skates through the night unscaved

Alright, it's not like I didn't see this coming. What am I at now?

Don't want to roleclaim unless absolutely necessary.

not looking to have to come up with a role claim that could be caught out today having had expected to have been able to have some time to discuss it with scum buddies during the night phase perhaps even get some info off a scum buddy with a role as to pass that off as his own night action.

BURN WITH FIRE

[Swiftstrike]

he is already setting up for a false claim the next day

For the next day? Honestly, swift, I'm worried about today. Unless I've miscounted (AGAIN! >.<) I currently have four people voting for me? I am currently the most logical target for a lynch, but I also don't feel like revealing my role unless it really looks like I'm going to get lynched.

Well that was a post you made when you thought you had hammered SRG and seemed sure of the town flip, then why the vote and don't push that speed reading bit again so yes, explain why you where setting up for a claim tomorrow, or don't and just die scum.

[Swiftstrike]

You ask why I think you seemed sure of an SRG town flip it's all in the language of your post, there is no weaselling your way out of this

*Sigh*

In my defense

(not that there's any excuses for lynching early), I was speed reading, and had mixed up this game with the one taking place over on the Weave, where there was about an hour or two until deadline. Not sure how the switch happened in my head, but there you have it.

I doubt scum will NK me now, with all the help I just gave myself for the lynch for "tomorrow."

I'll do what I can tonight to

lessen the damage I've caused

. I doubt I'll be able to pull this around in time, but here's hoping I can help out during the next day.

I still don't like the way EMP is playing. I'm not sure if that's how he plays all the time, but he's added next to nothing to the overall convo for this game.

Also, that is the second time Rikana has shown arrogance at others trying to get him/her lynched, as if the prospect is laughable. Doesn't quite sit well with me, but I'm sure most of what I say from this moment on will be ignored.

Bolded Statements here scream that your looking at a SRG town flip otherwise why do you need a defence, if SRG was scum you would be on the possible night kill list for that hammer (if you where town) and what need is there to lessen the damage you caused if SRG was scum?

[Swiftstrike]

Not if someone will lynch this scum now it doesn't, but yes deadline day is Friday.

Anyway claim is so hokey, who ever would have though JAM had a claim, oh wait I did as he set it up in that post after he though he hammered SRG , then the claim is jailkeeper which is as Jabba put very easy to fake a claim with, and then no night action claimed, which I assume means that he is trying to work out who he is going to claim he protected/blocked and how he plans to explain logic, by either saying he did it to the player who scum would then have roleblocked or to claim his action happened on a scum mate so they don't counter claim that they were not blocked.

BURN WITH FIRE

[Swiftstrike]

I need to get a re-read done, as I was obvious badly reading Jam so going to try get that completed tomorrow as I have made a start today.

but quick question for the meantime.

I think that's a scum error - that simplified the game for me.

So now...

›

yabbaguy - hello!

›

Internet Stranger - As much as I went to fencesit, I just know that he's Town. Why would he start, arguably, the first major squabble of the game when nothing was going on if he was scum? Also, inkling that he's telling the truth and that he wouldn't have let Empking be the kill.

›

SomeRandomGuy - Why isn't he dead? But I'd like to believe that he genuinely thought he was lynched, that was super convincing that he just stayed online well into midnight for him and blathered on.

›

PeregrineV - obviously Town-tunneling. Classic symptoms.

›

FightingShadow

- enter the WIFOM - this was Emp's favorite person to wagon on. But I think when he makes attacks on other players, it's really more to just attack and point out what they're doing wrong, but I don't see him really hunting.

›

Rikana - obviously Town-tunneling. Classic symptoms.

›

Swiftstrike

- Feels off somehow. Maybe it's just that his scumhunting aggression is sub-par.

›

Locke Lamora

- gigantic question mark.

›

Sky

- gigantic question mark.

No vote yet.

Why no vote yet yabbaguy? If you have it narrowed down to an group of 4 players to hold the scum in then why not vote now. Let's say you voted for me and got the mislynch then if scum are certain in the rest of the group of 4 then you still can just lynch off the rest of the players in the remaining days, (under the assumption it is 3 scum game). So I can't understand that if your town with a good certainty as to where the scum is what is the hesitation?

[Swiftstrike]

Remember that my previous list had shades of red - but here I'm showing uncertainty. If you show scum, on the other hand, you've just indicated a big impatience for me to just get on with advocating for the lynch of all four of those people.

Mind you, that orange block includes yourself, but if I'm right and you show scum, it's a massive indicator that

I've just tightened my dragnet too much. (i.e. I cleared too many - a black name should really go orange)

There is some information to be gleaned from this lynch unless Swift can adequately explain why he was in such a hurry to press me on that issue.

Vote: Swiftstrike

I do, however, wish to

FoS: Sky

. Even if LoLa is scum-bussing here with that, he makes some pretty darn good points - my favorites being the "mislynch" potential slip and the flagging of Sky's constant seesaw on JAM.

However, I don't think LoLa had a stance on JAM at all though - so I don't know what to make of that. I guess implicit indifference is less scummy? Maybe? /:|

But that is my point, your net seems extremely to tight and strangely only included lower posters if we are to believe scum come from the orange group you highlighted, then it means that town have been driving wagons that have lead to the lynch of town. Now that is possible but if you look at the people who got lynched and killed it seems weird that most of them have been lower posters too. (with the exception of bristep). This just seems not right so I wanted to see why you where narrowing down a list so far but holding back on the push.

[Swiftstrike]

@yabba I did not change the intent of the question, I revealed exactly what I was looking to get an answer from you from that question.

I can see at least 2 town in the group you raised as orange, one being myself and given I am trying to re-evaluate my reads and going back through the game I wanted to see why you had a list so narrowly defined, which you have tried to back away from quickly now in your response to me. So let's look at that shall we.

Remember that my previous list had shades of red - but here I'm showing uncertainty.

Oh yes I can see the subtle shades of grey that your going for by using ONLY TWO COLOURS. Or the language of the post in the town cleared part of your list.

›

yabbaguy - hello!

›

Internet Stranger - As much as I went to fencesit,

I just know that he's Town.

Why would he start, arguably, the first major squabble of the game when nothing was going on if he was scum? Also, inkling that he's telling the truth and that he wouldn't have let Empking be the kill.

›

SomeRandomGuy - Why isn't he dead? But I'd like to believe that he genuinely thought he was lynched, that was super convincing that he just stayed online well into midnight for him and blathered on.

›

PeregrineV -

obviously Town-tunneling.

Classic symptoms.

›

Rikana -

obviously Town-tunneling.

Classic symptoms.
No vote yet.

So I can see 2 town in the orange group and your pushing as scum coming from that group, I got to wonder if your scum driving the game.

Also how about responding to my last point rather than trying to sideline it.

only included lower posters if we are to believe scum come from the orange group you highlighted, then it means that town have been driving wagons that have lead to the lynch of town. Now that is possible but if you look at the people who got lynched and killed it seems weird that most of them have been lower posters too. (with the exception of bristep). This just seems not right so I wanted to see why you where narrowing down a list so far but holding back on the push

[Swiftstrike]

@yabba I did not change the intent of the question, I revealed exactly what I was looking to get an answer from you from that question.

You revealed a lie! There was absolutely NOTHING in that post that suggested that was the intent - you clearly wanted me to be more AGGRESSIVE with my list, not RECONSIDERING it!

You get no reply to any of your blathering that I'm scum until this gets cleared up. You told a scummy lie, and you got caught.

I revealed no lie, but instead you post more lies yourself as you find yourself unable to answer the first one put to you.

trying to make it look like I was trying to rush the game when I haven't even laid a vote this phase yet and this isn't the first time your trying to paint me as rushing this day phase

on the other hand, you've just indicated a big impatience for me to just get on with advocating for the lynch of all four of those people.
--
There is some information to be gleaned from this lynch unless Swift can adequately explain why he was in such a hurry to press me on that issue.

you got yourself caught in the uncertainty lie and now can't find your way to explain it so your choosing to just ignore it.

VOTE yabbaguy

[Swiftstrike]

@Swift- I don't get the Yabba case. Since I tend to like his playsyle and reads, your going to need something WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY more solid than the OMGUS.

It's not a case about OMGUS, look at each response he has given , each and every single post is trying to move any suspicion off himself and on to me, I don't know if he spotted I was trying to trap him and instead went on the offensive, but he refuses to discuss the question I'm asking and is instead going "You get no reply to any of your blathering that I'm scum until this gets cleared up." Which he may as well have said I ain't playing with you no more there is no town motivation for that. I'll post up a case once I get to your other questions
--

2. @Swift- do you see town among the Orange on the Yabba list? If so, who, and why?

@Yabba & Swift- if not voting each other, who would you vote? And why?

I stated already I can see town on that list, I got a feeling that Locke is town, first you can look at the day 1 wagons if Locke spot was scum then there was a fair chance that the Malps wagon would be pushed harder by fellow scum now based on yabba list that would HAVE to be either myself, sky or FS. Now look at how that day ended Sky was L-2 vote without really pushing that wagon, I'm town but look at the wagon from me as well I wasn't forcing any wagon for Malps and, FS disappeared at the end of day with what would then have to be a scum mate in danger with single vote suck else where doing nothing not really the behaviour of a scum buddy. so that would mean that if Locke was to be scum it would have to be with IS as the push for the opposing wagon which I just don't buy.

As for who else would I vote for, I could definitely see a vote for Sky Locke made a reasonable case for it, and Sky ties in well with a yabba scum as a yabba ISO paints a strange picture ISO 20 (post 243) lists sky as bottom of his town->scum list, and yet his next post is going out after IS who is second bottom, and Sky get questioned at ISO 23 (post 248), Sky ignores it and yet by ISO 29 (post 292) Sky is now a town read and is not mentioned again until he drops his uncertain list of certain town reads.
--

I don't know who I'd back up with. Everything's conditional on this flip.

Now it sounds like a trap!

OK, since voting is good

Vote: Swiftstrike

Sorry what sound like a trap there? He refuses to make any response and continues to state the same bollocks line over and over and it's suddenly a trap. Explain that.

[Swiftstrike]

I think that's a scum error - that simplified the game for me.

Starts the day by quickly dismissing the night kill, despite it being a really weird night kill after the lost of our jailkeeper, I see no reason to do that than it doesn't fit with yabba's the logic that yabba is trying to use. Yabba is trying to paint that the scum have all got to be in the lower posters in this game now if that is true then why are they bumping off Emp as another lower poster instead of taking out someone like IS or yabba who are allegedly driving this town. Now even look at that has anyone read Yabba's ISO ( I would advise it. Sticks a vote on Smalls the minute he comes into the game and leaves it there for the rest of the day. The rest of his posts it is surprising how easy it is to say so little with so many posts despite being having the highest post count has not managed to lead any of his wagons to lynch and really isn't pushing any of them hard given his post even his biggest push on the SRG wagon, he hops off and turns around on in fact none of his reads have been consistent. I raised the point about his changing SKY reads in my last post there with no input from Sky in response to his question so it just all strikes me as very strange

@ Peregrine

you said you like his playstyle and his reads. which of his reads do you like as there seems to have been many different stages of them.

Remember that my previous list had shades of red - but here I'm

showing uncertainty

.

Now I raised the issue of this false sense of uncertain that yabba is claiming to have but this statement here stands on it's on as well, it's not a case that it a claim to be uncertain it's a case of showing uncertain, why would anyone nned to claim to be showing an uncertainty rather than being uncertain. Then I can move back to the actual very certain post rather than as claimed showing uncertainty.

›

yabbaguy - hello!

›

Internet Stranger - As much as I went to fencesit,

I just know that he's Town.

Why would he start, arguably, the first major squabble of the game when nothing was going on if he was scum? Also, inkling that he's telling the truth and that he wouldn't have let Empking be the kill.

›

SomeRandomGuy - Why isn't he dead? But I'd like to believe that he genuinely thought he was lynched, that was super convincing that he just stayed online well into midnight for him and blathered on.

›

PeregrineV -

obviously Town-tunneling.

Classic symptoms.

›

Rikana -

obviously Town-tunneling.

Classic symptoms.
No vote yet.

All the people he mentions here are a use in being certain, even with IS where he does "WENT TO FENCE SIT" and then claim that IS started the first major squabble of the game where Peregrine/Rikana seems to have been the major squabble of the game which yabba should know as he has done this peace keeping act to that. Even then he "KNOWS" IS is town.

[Swiftstrike]

Now with added quote goodness.

As for who else would I vote for, I could definitely see a vote for Sky Locke made a reasonable case for it, and Sky ties in well with a yabba scum as a yabba ISO paints a strange picture ISO 20 (post 243) (http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3254432) lists sky as bottom of his town->scum list, and yet his next post is going out after IS who is second bottom(http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p3254708), and Sky get questioned at ISO 23(post 248)(http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p3254878) , Sky ignores it (http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3257683) (response to IS instead) and yet by ISO 29 (post 292)(http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3263772) Sky is now a town read and is

not mentioned again

until he drops his uncertain list of certain town reads(http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p3300487). (underlined- you have to check this yourselves just to a find search on his ISO for SKY.

[Swiftstrike]

Why no vote yet yabbaguy

? If you have it narrowed down to an group of 4 players to hold the scum in then

why not vote now

. Let's say you voted for me and got the mislynch then if scum are certain in the rest of the group of 4 then you still can just lynch off the rest of the players in the remaining days, (under the assumption it is 3 scum game). So I can't understand that if your town with a good certainty as to where the scum is

what is the hesitation

?

But that is my point,

your net seems extremely to tight

and strangely only included lower posters if we are to believe scum come from the orange group you highlighted, then it means that town have been driving wagons that have lead to the lynch of town. Now that is possible but if you look at the people who got lynched and killed it seems weird that most of them have been lower posters too. (with the exception of bristep). This just seems not right so I wanted to see why you where

narrowing down a list so far but holding back on the push

.

You've now completely changed the intent of that question. You asked me in that last post that I had four names in the orange that could've all been lynched, and had I contained the scumteam, it would've been all over. You were not at any point asking me whether I was tightening my dragnet too much. You asked me in the first post "you're confident enough - why not have a go?" and in the second "you're too confident - doesn't that seem unlikely?"

You are lying to me right now.

You are lying very poorly to me right now, and you've just outed yourself as obvious scum.

The first post

states

I should really be voting if I were Town. The second post states I really ought to reconsider who I'm about to vote.

How can the first post be doing what the second post claims it's doing?

LIES

first post is a QUESTION not a statement it's easy to notice because it starts with WHY and ends with a ?

Let's looks at contradicting STATEMENTS shall we without the fluff attached

›

Internet Stranger -

I just know that he's Town.

›

PeregrineV -

obviously Town-tunneling.

Classic symptoms.

›

Rikana -

obviously Town-tunneling.

Classic symptoms.

LOOK CERTAINTY

Remember that my previous list had shades of red - but here I'm showing uncertainty.

OH NO IT ISN'T

I simply threw the list together as a mass of uncertainty really, I put Town names in there because they were based on Towntells I had seen before or what makes sense. Saying IS is Town is HARD after all the malarkey he's done this game, so it's more me trying to convince myself.

NO IT REALLY ISN'T an UNCERTAIN LIST BUT REPEAT THE LIE ENOUGH AND IT MIGHT BE BELIEVED, AND IF SAYING INTERNET STRANGER IS TOWN IS HARD THEN HOW IS THE CERTAINTY THERE, RATHER THAN THE UNCERTAINTY YOU CLAIM TO HAVE?

NOW EVERYONE LOOK AT THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT AND EXPLAIN TOWN MOTIVATION BEHIND IT

You get no reply to any of your blathering that I'm scum until this gets cleared up.

[Swiftstrike]

@Swift- I read your case with links (thank you), but Swift day1 has no Yabba mention, but does have a town JAM case. Can you convincingly connect Yabba to anything or anyone else, and why was he ignored by you day1?

Correct I didn't mention him day 1 I wasn't suspicious of him day 1, it's only after JAM flipped town that I realised I was completely in the wrong and started to re-read. In looking back over the game and also in yabba response to my question raised some issues I have pointed them out, he refuses to discuss them, it isn't town play.

Can I convincingly connect yabba to anything or anyone else. It depends on how you look at it, I have no hard and fast evidence, no, but you say you have looked at the links I provided, I think there is fairly good evidence there to indicate a link between yabba and SKY.

--

Hey Swift, its quite possible that Yabba is sucking up to me by calling me town in an effort to get me off his trail. Scum try to win favor with me like that all the damn time.

It is possible, I am not discounting it, but it is likely than one of yabba town list is scum who he was looking to set up as confirmed town to get a game win after possibly bussing Sky if needed or just applying pressure on the other orange players to gain the mislynches that way.

[Swiftstrike]

Unvote

since everyone's telling me to try again.

But Swift, I still don't have the answer as to what the first post is intended to convey though. Okay, you asked why I'm not voting. That

conveys

then the opinion that you wanted me to vote, yes?

I have explained it, where as you still haven't responded to my questions how about you look at coming back to the points I raised.

[Swiftstrike]

@SRG:

It doesn't change my read at all, it wasn't a read that was conditional on them both being scum only that that was were I could possibly see a partner there, it's highly unlikely now that there is a partnership there.

@Anyone

Would siblings/lovers be classed as a normal set up? The post below makes me wonder

I think Rikana is insane-town that really wants to leave his mark on the town and will do anything to stand out as much as possible. Its almost as if his reads are from a bizzaro alternate universe. If he is scum, he is the scum wild card of the group and would need to be bussed on and disposed. If he flips scum, I would actually be looking at you, Peregrine.

2 Birds with one stone.

@ Rikana

what did you mean by this comment?

[Swiftstrike]

Welcome

David

I don't think there are to many questions flagged for you as fighting shadow was inactive, so it's mainly a read from you now would prove useful. One thing to look at is SKY claim as gunsmith as every player has been on to comment since it was made except your slot.


Yabba please explain how it's Locke scum based off the day 1 lynch? As your push is back on one of your orange players from the start of the day and your case is woolly at best.

Day 1 - Final VoteCount

1. SomeRandomGuy
2. Internet Stranger
3. yabbaGuy
4. PeregrineV
5. FightingShadow
6. Rikana
7. JAMFTW -

L6 (FightingShadow)

8. Swiftstrike
9.

malpascp

-

LYNCHED (

Internet stranger, JAMFTW, Bristep123, Empking, Sky, Swiftstrike,

Smallpeople343)

10. smallpeoples343 (LOCKE)

L-3 (yabbaguy, PereguineV, Rikana,

malpascp

)

11. bristep123
12. Empking -

L6 (SomeRandomGuy)

13. Sky

Now if sky is to be believed (and with no counter claim I think that claim is good) then the only chance of scum on the counter wagon would have been Locke himself and that would only be for the hammer. That means that either you and or the other two on that wagon are both scum bussing for town points or sitting as useless single votes not doing anything to stop a scum buddies lynch and how likely is that.

[Swiftstrike]

No counter claim from ANY role means likely town sky.

It is possible that Jam was non standard jailkeeper as he did not seem to fully understand the role

Alright, I'm at L-1.

I am the Town Jailor. I can toss someone into jail at night. They can neither take a night action or be targeted by other night actions. I'm effectively a Doc and/or Roleblocker, depending on the target.

I would also point out that before I voted, I wasn't sure of the lynch count. It wasn't til someone voted after me that it was the hammer.

Oh, and sorry about not asking whether I knew about the role beforehand.

I've perused the MS Wiki on a couple of occasions, so I've seen the title, but I've never read into what the role did before.

This could mean that Jam had this version but never brought this up as he did not think it was any different from a standard JK role.
---

Any which way lynching claimed cop role with no counter claim is lunacy so I also won't be voting Sky. IS why you coming off Yabba to sit on someone with no votes at 12hrs to go? I will be back on in the morning to see if there is a any change to the lunacy.

[Swiftstrike]

@ Locke

No I said

No counter claim from ANY role means likely town sky.

So to clarify I mean if someone had come out claimed cop/tracker/watcher/masons anything I would have gone for a Sky lynch but with none of that Sky is likely town

@Mod

what happens if 2 players are at the same number of votes come deadline, is it a no lynch, is it a random lynch or is it first to that number lynched?

Unless it's a majority it will be a no lynch

[Swiftstrike]

Well no reply and I'm heading out to work now, I hope to be on again before deadline, but in case I'm not.

UNVOTE
VOTE DAVID XANATOS

[Swiftstrike]

Locke I don't really suspect him but a SKY lynch looks really bad so the vote is to counter that.

[Swiftstrike]

I could have countered to that wagon yes but there is slot more of him to read and it seems townie so it's David as the best counter.

[Swiftstrike]

Ebwop a lot not slot stupid iPhone

[Swiftstrike]

I was posting at 3 mins to deadline how much analysis do you reckon I would get in.

I have a null scum read on david the scum part is on the Sky push. Based on what I have read of peregrine I have a townie read so I choose the lesser of my 2 reads.

[Swiftstrike]

@Mod

can we get confirmation if we are at mylo or not?

I don't think voting is sensible at the moment with the likelihood of mylo this phase and without hearing from both Rikana and SRG who were both absent from the end part of the last day phase.

[Swiftstrike]

@ yabba

you asked this question which is why I thought best to see if there was a confirmation of it being mylo as we would usually get it on the site I came from and the question you asked was useless.

This is MyLo if this is 3-scum, yes?

You then post after my question this which could equally apply to you

Sorry, thought I was in a rush. Basically, there are instances when scum ask this question to claim naïvete of the setup, but from a Town vantage, it's a really dumb and pointless question and thus gains nothing for the Town players.

Your scum you know if we are at mylo or not and post that useless question to appear as not to be aware that we are at mylo.

@Ant.
Top scum pick is Yabba, likely partners David and then I'm not sure it's between yourself or Peregrine. There is no way yabba isn't flipping scum in this game as he just cannot be town, look at how he has been trying to push a lynch on Locke last day phase this post. [preview edit actually going to break this out into a separate post as it's to confusing]


Also why would IS be possible a mafia doctor for there to be a mafia doctor, surely there would have to be a town or 3rd party killing role and we are yet to see either of these. So that wouldn't make much sense, so that is why there is a negligible chance of IS Scum.

[Swiftstrike]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p3340826

IS has likely degenerated to gut feeling in regards to my scumminess, I should point out. At this point, all I can do is hope everyone at least acknowledges that, unless I'm missing something (tell me please?), there are no scummy points on me that I haven't explained away. (Sorry for the obnoxious, although slightly necessary, nesting and interfering parenthetical statements)

Locke's statement wasn't satisfactory to me, personally. Locke, you were here on the 3rd and 6th - consistent with when you've logged on, yes. But you had both of those days to actually do something useful, you even admitted that there may have been reasonable possibility that Sky's claim was valid. Why are you still clinging to the vote? The perception I have is that you're sitting on your ass and not scumhunting right now - scummy esp. in the late Day when the wagon's not on you. (note to self: not on a buddy either?)

@Swift:

Day 1 - Final VoteCount

JAMFTW - L6 (FightingShadow)
malpascp - LYNCHED (

Internet stranger, JAMFTW, Bristep123, Empking, Sky

, Swiftstrike, Smallpeople343)
smallpeoples343 (Locke) L-3

(

yabbaguy, PereguineV, Rikana,

malpascp

)

Empking - L6 (SomeRandomGuy)

Currently, I think this is a totally Town-driven wagon. I've already told people how I feel Peregrine and Rikana are two of the Towniest players in the game. While I admit I've seen Town merrily go on their way to self-conducting a mislynch bandwagon, this amplifies the likelihood significantly that Locke would show scum, in fact.

Whatever, I don't even know what the word "wooly" means. I'm Town-clearing too many as I've mentioned previously, and esp. after jumping off a plane from London, I'm scatterbrained. But you bringing that wagon analysis up actually makes me believe more and more that Locke is most likely to show scum.

IS just exploded on

Xanatos, I'm not buying the scumminess.

I think this is based on tells that might need some research on past games - and that's on IS to do in my opinion. For example, the "Hi there! Ask me anything and I'll dutifully answer them!" scumtell that IS flagged out-front: is this actually something that statistically shows scum often?

Yabba had just previously voted for Locke as scum.

Now look at who he colours green here and then look at the underlined part I added he then tries to clear his partner in david (previously Fighting shadow) now if thing was town player held belief he would be left with a Locke, me and SRG scum team and yet is is not pushing that he has the game broken which he can't as he is scum so he keeps it to himself to avoid being picked up on it.

He then later claims to have been blindsided by the deadline and moves his vote onto David with the likelyhood of still getting a SKY and trying to come off town because on it. Now that hasn't worked he is bussing David and trying to paint me as his scum buddy, No it's Yabba scum definitely with David as a partner.

[Swiftstrike]

@SRG. Look again at what Yabba has been saying. Look at what he is pushing me on look at his inconsistencies the whole game, go back and ISO him. Even just look at the last post

no way the mod actually tells you, and YOU KNEW THAT.

Consider the number of games we have played together where it has been confirmed that we are at Mylo and why it would be unreasonable to ask that question after his nothing question, that he now tries to play as informative.

Look at his play when it comes to David, he has been protecting the slot all along subtly moving focus away and now jumping upon it as a bus to try gain back town cred.

Also you say that I'm just nitpicking, you and I have played together enough is that a scum tell or a town tell for me? I'm not asking you to believe me but I am asking you to go back and read Yabba without the blinkers of him calling you town earlier and just read him and then think about where you want to vote tomorrow.

I won't vote David just yet as I really want to see what Peregrine has to say in response to Ant's question and it would be nice to see Ant respond to his own question as well.

Placeholder for a vote.

FOS DAVID

[Swiftstrike]

@yabba.

I have played most of my games offsite, they could not be described as open (apart from one open game and two I modded there.) but we get mod confirmation of mylo's and lylo's there every game. Where as I have only completed 3 onsite games only one of those went to lylo and I would have sworn blind that was modconfirmed until I went and checked it and it wasn't.

@Ant

Are you waiting for anything in particular before giving your reads?

[Swiftstrike]

IS is right there is no way your not scum, got peregrine now would like to hear Ant's reason for playing his reads so close to his chest but there isn't any reason to hold off any longer

VOTE DAVID XANATOS

Where is your case on your buddy Yabba, David?

[Swiftstrike]

EBWOP:

In case anyone isn't aware that is L-1.

[Swiftstrike]

David if you really have a txt file with your case why not try using this to find it

http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/recent_files_view.html

because at the moment it looks like you spent 36hrs making the worst possible case on a buddy and then forgot about it.

[Swiftstrike]

What an enjoyable game, I called Ant town vig after we went to night but we were wary of a possible vig there so never intended to move quickly onto a David lynch or anyone else's just in-case.

As with SRG I have no problem with release of the scum thread and look forward to getting to see the dead thread soon.

Yabba you did have me but for the wrong reasons me pulling you on your 4 orange players was a way to get back into the game without really having to comment on pushing the lynch on jam or trying to fake a response to his role flip and as for the MYLO thing that is something that gets confirmed a fair bit on the other site I play and it seemed again an easy 1st post of the day to not have to try put in a response to Sky flipping gunsmith that might seem insincere.