GI wrote:
Why that's... substantially different than how it appears from the rebuttal, isn't it? Why it's almost like Kast is creating a made up position that he's misrepresenting onto his detractor, and then rebutting that completely fictitious position in his posts. Damn I need a less wordy name for that.
I wanted to check this out for myself, and I'm glad I did. Not the result you were probably hoping for, but
Nocmen+5
Nocmen in 35 accuses Kast of "feeling the waters with those comments. By mentioning what you don't like, but yet not voting."
Kast's response in 59 is entirely to point: "@Nocmen-There's a difference between stating what you think and asking people if it's ok to think what you think. The "town must vote immediately" mindset is ridiculous and needs to be killed. I think I've been spoiled by playing mostly games with competent playerbases where this stuff doesn't need to be explained." I don't see how this can reasonably be read as anything other than a direct response to the accusation that he was "feeling the waters" (ie. that there is, as he says, a difference between giving your own opinion - which isn't scummy - and dangling things for other people's approval - which is)
Nocmen clarifies his original attack in 81 with the point you just quoted to me: "@Kast: There's a difference between posting fluff and posting reads. Votes don't always need to happen, but I will go after someone for not posting any reads, making it too easy for scum to get away with that. Also, you seem very against Grey's claim, and if you are...why aren't you voting him?"
For context, the "comments" that Nocmen was initially referring to in 35 were:
Kast wrote: @CandleJack/Morph-
Opportunistic much?
@Anti/Ace-
Feeling the waters? Not liking these posts.
@GreyIce-
Please clarify if your claim is serious.
-If so, does your power ALSO prevent a watcher from seeing the ACTUAL culprit? (This should be a no-brainer to share if you're seriously claiming)
-Would your ability false track to protected and/or kill immune targets (ie. failed kill attempts)?
What's my point?
Clearly, Nocmen's issue is with the first two of those three. Now, those comments are both pretty clear in meaning - CJ/morph is opportunistic and Anti/ace seems to be feeling the waters. Both of these things are widely-recognised scumtells and Kast's post is, therefore, reasonably clear that he is indicating suspicion (however mild) of CJ and Anti.
Nocmen's 35 pretty clearly shows that Nocmen knows that Kast is saying he doesn't like the aforementioned conduct from CJ/morph and Anti/Ace (ie. Nocmen appears well-aware that Kast is expressing suspicion). Nocmen's problem appears to be that Kast is not following up is comments with voting. In which case, 59 is a perfectly sensible response to make. As Kast himself said in 113, Nocmen's initial attack appeared to be about the absence of a vote, and then he varies it to instead be about fluff (well, actually, Nocmen makes a general theory point about the difference between reads and fluff - he never actually explained why what Nocmen had posted was fluff).
GI wrote:
What Kast is doing is implying that a lack of reasoning displayed for her town reads also correlates to a lack of reasoning for her scum reads. Which she correctly notes he doesn't address, except to throw more shit at her and hope it sticks.
This issue is a bit harder to follow. You're saying that Kast's reasoning is something like:
1) LLD's town reads are unreasoned (I note that LLD has explained that they aren't unreasoned, and that what she meant was not that she doesn't "need" reasons, but just that she doesn't need to POST them)
2) LLD's scum reads are sheeped from her town reads
3) Therefore, LLD's scumreads are BS
?
