Mini 1199 - Plissken's Pit [GAME OVER]

[JAMFTW]

Sure, fine, that's the way you play. Whatever. But semantics? Really?

In a game that revolves around reading into, and dissecting, words, what people say, and how they say it, you don't think language can come into play?

Having said that, how about contributing to the discussions instead of acting all defensive?

[PeregrineV]

@Sky, Yabba, Swift- Glad you noticed.

@EmpKing- why Fighting? More info plz.

@JAM- I see what you're saying about Rikana, but I thought he had more than malp related posts.

More after I do some work :bleh:

[Rikana]

Sure, fine, that's the way you play. Whatever. But semantics? Really?

In a game that revolves around reading into, and dissecting, words, what people say, and how they say it, you don't think language can come into play?

Having said that, how about contributing to the discussions instead of acting all defensive?

Usually semantics don't find scum.

You haven't contributed in your accusations, so don't play hypocrite.

Btw. I think the scum were scared of Bristep after further investigations, and not trying to frame. Perhaps frame was secondary, but it wasn't the primary reason for Bristep dying.

Bristep BU and IS dead.

Further investigation notes that IS is how Yabba is calling him out.

Therefore, I can do this.

Unvote, Vote: InternetStranger

[SnakePlissken]

Votecount to follow later this evening

[FightingShadow]

Catchup post, engage!

[FightingShadow]

JAMFTW - what does your username mean?

Anyways, my thoughts on Day 1:

I apologize for being absent. By the time I checked the thread again, the day was over. The three people that jumped out at me for Day 1 were smallpeoples, Internet Stranger, and Rikana. Smallpeoples for the terrible lurking (hypocritical, I know).

Internet Stranger's tunnelling I didn't like at all. He basically tunnelled on Malp. Throughout the day I mainly saw from him posts about Malpascp being scummy, posts criticizing the game's lack of content, or planning for future days based on what Malp's alignment was. He had more criticism about the thread than he did attempts to improve the thread . . . which seems like a spot that lazy scum would try to stay in. Gives the appearance of caring about how the game is dying, but not really helping its condition at all. Not to mention helping to muscle through a town lynch.

As for Rikana, I don't like how he consistently called Malp town, but didn't make much of an effort to try to derail the wagon. As the game neared deadline, that became less scummy, and in his first couple of posts, he did. But for the majority of day one, it seemed like all he did was say "map town, bristep scum" and then got out of the way. No real sense of urgency to try to turn his opinions into flips. And a scum who wanted to get credit for calling Malp town wouldn't neccessarily want to stop Malp from being lynched.

Alright, now for Day 2:

LYNCHED (Internet stranger, JAMFTW, Bristep123, Empking, Sky, Swiftstrike, Smallpeople343)

So like I said, at least one of these people is scum. Obviously, its neither me or Bristep. I nominate JAM

Vote: JAMFTW

Given what I said above about IS, this bothers me. Strongarm the lynch, and then immediately suspect everyone who went along with it? You clearly aren't above suspicion here, and I find your rush to move on to the next suspect suspicious.

Vote: Internet Stranger for illogical and reckless wagon push. I don't approve, JAM was not a lurker, he was inactive.

I also think IS is pointing out the lurking for Townpoints, but actually isn't and wasn't doing a hell of a lot to actively solve that problem. Just idly "stop doing it" "I'll wait" "Not my problem, waiting for the dust to settle"

Stuff along those lines.

yabbaguy knows what's up.

Rather odd, given the fact that he had an earlier post, so I don't think he's been silenced.

You play EM, alright. But still, what does your name mean?

I'm the meantime, JAMScum is clearly coasting. I like where my vote is planted at the moment.

The same could have been said about you during Day 1.

In all fairness to rikana what would the point of defending the person who is to be lynched by calling another player scum who he then proceeds to night kill and have both flip town be?

I'd find that much more suspect if Bristep hadn't have died in the night and was being set up for a day 2 lynch. I actually find because of that scenario that my read on Rikana is leaning town.

This is a big ol' can of WIFOM. There's a place for night kill analysis, but it's VERY easy to fall into a trap with that.

Rikana, Sky

- Who do you suspect right now?

VOTE: Internet Stranger

[SomeRandomGuy]

Yeah FS, i was aware it was quite WIFOM something i try to avoid for the most part but i just didn't see how that particular situation painted Rikana badly and just wanted to mention it as the flips were seemingly being pushed against him which seemed to lack logic.

I'm not sure what to make of JamFTW at the moment, Rikana is leaning town mostly down to gut and his general aggressiveness, he just seems to be genuine, IS i'm also unsure of, I noticed previously the 'this game is full of junk' style comments and was waiting for something from him that would drag it out of that stage which doesn't seem to have came, I'm not willing to vote on him just yet based solely on that but it is suspect in my mind.

FS, what do you now think of Emp? It seemed day 1 you had a bit of a hardon for him and he's not been mentioned in this most recent post. Just wondering what your thought s on him are now.

[JAMFTW]

"You play EM, alright. But still, what does your name mean?"

EM? What does that stand for? I'm familiar with some of the Mafia acronyms and such, but some of them I haven't seen, yet.

I don't see what my initials have to do anything, nor how it could be related to scum hunting, but I don't see any problem giving an answer: the first part, jam, is my initials. The second part, ftw is an abbreviation/acronym that is widely used in geek/nerd culture "For The Win." I was trying to come up with a name over at myth-weavers.com, and my normal screen names were taken, so I was trying to think of something, and that was the first thing that popped into my head.

@Rikana: Just because I'm focusing on you right now doesn't mean I'm not contributing.

[yabbaguy]

I'm not sure what to make of JamFTW at the moment, Rikana is leaning town mostly down to gut and his general aggressiveness, he just seems to be genuine, IS i'm also unsure of, I noticed previously the 'this game is full of junk' style comments and was waiting for something from him that would drag it out of that stage which doesn't seem to have came, I'm not willing to vote on him just yet based solely on that but it is suspect in my mind.

There's far too much fencesitting here. You're not sure of this, you're not sure of that, maybe you should bleed onto the wagon, it sorta makes you suspicious.

FoS: SomeRandomGuy

because of the scum convenience involved. (Nobody says "scumvenience" anymore, do they?)

Also, FS, be careful. Tunneling is something Town does when they're thinking "come on, somehow this bastard's gotta be scum" and they keep pestering them over contrived details. If the IS-scum theory checks out, this isn't true, he knows whether or not he's pushing on Town or scum.

[Empking]

Very happy with my vote now. That last post looks like scum catch up (its length though not being insightful). His vote also looks convenient.

[SomeRandomGuy]

I'm not sure what to make of JamFTW at the moment, Rikana is leaning town mostly down to gut and his general aggressiveness, he just seems to be genuine, IS i'm also unsure of, I noticed previously the 'this game is full of junk' style comments and was waiting for something from him that would drag it out of that stage which doesn't seem to have came, I'm not willing to vote on him just yet based solely on that but it is suspect in my mind.

There's far too much fencesitting here. You're not sure of this, you're not sure of that, maybe you should bleed onto the wagon, it sorta makes you suspicious.

FoS: SomeRandomGuy

because of the scum convenience involved. (Nobody says "scumvenience" anymore, do they?)

Also, FS, be careful. Tunneling is something Town does when they're thinking "come on, somehow this bastard's gotta be scum" and they keep pestering them over contrived details. If the IS-scum theory checks out, this isn't true, he knows whether or not he's pushing on Town or scum.

Or perhaps after my V/LA i don't feel as caught up as I'd like to be and need a proper read through again and some more information to go on. I'm still not caught up as much as i'd like and would like the chance to go through some ISO's and fully develop reads before showing a commitment to something just because others seem in some cases fairly certain. I'd also like to hear more from FS because he hasn't had a lot of posts for me to read back on and Emp seemed to be his previous scum read who he has now not mentioned, trying to work out if his motives for the case against IS that he presented are clear would be quite a big thing with my reads.

[Internet Stranger]

Shadow is being opportunistic, its like a shark smelling blood in the water.

[yabbaguy]

Or perhaps after my V/LA i don't feel as caught up as I'd like to be and need a proper read through again and some more information to go on.

Nah. The problem's been going on longer than that.

Very happy with my vote now. That last post looks like scum catch up (its length though not being insightful). His vote also looks convenient.

Shadow is being opportunistic, its like a shark smelling blood in the water.

Out of order. You need to show how our IS-scum rationale is wrong first.

[FightingShadow]

FS, what do you now think of Emp? It seemed day 1 you had a bit of a hardon for him and he's not been mentioned in this most recent post. Just wondering what your thought s on him are now.

Fairly null. My suspicions of Empking in the early game were weak . . . I tend to do that when I play, find something slightly suspicious to jump on to to help steer the game away from RVS. He hasn't jumped out at me yet besides that early portion of the game.

"You play EM, alright. But still, what does your name mean?"

EM? What does that stand for? I'm familiar with some of the Mafia acronyms and such, but some of them I haven't seen, yet.

I don't see what my initials have to do anything, nor how it could be related to scum hunting, but I don't see any problem giving an answer: the first part, jam, is my initials. The second part, ftw is an abbreviation/acronym that is widely used in geek/nerd culture "For The Win." I was trying to come up with a name over at myth-weavers.com, and my normal screen names were taken, so I was trying to think of something, and that was the first thing that popped into my head.

EM is another Mafia site where someone who has been silenced will flash votes over and over again (chat-based). I only asked because the letter combination "JAM" has some significance to me beyond being something spreadable on toast. But I'll stop cluttering the thread with this now.

Also, FS, be careful. Tunneling is something Town does when they're thinking "come on, somehow this bastard's gotta be scum" and they keep pestering them over contrived details. If the IS-scum theory checks out, this isn't true, he knows whether or not he's pushing on Town or scum.

This is true. I know from experience. However, I don't get a town-vibe from IS's tunnelling thus far. Town tunnelling will often have case development, though the newfound points get more trivial as the case goes on, and are usually found in the midst of nitpicky arguing. IS didn't have that, really. He just sat there saying "Malp scum" and reiterating his reasons.

Very happy with my vote now. That last post looks like scum catch up (its length though not being insightful). His vote also looks convenient.

Shadow is being opportunistic, its like a shark smelling blood in the water.

1. These posts are eerily similar.

2. This is the trouble with getting behind in a game based only in one thread. Though I noticed the same patterns that the others who suspect IS noticed, I noticed them before I read that they noticed them. Of course, there's no way to prove that, so there's no real point an arguing it, but my vote was not opportunistic from my perspective. I made my post as I read the thread, rather than read the thread and then summarize everything. It's easier that way to quote the relevant information and include everything that you've noticed.

[Internet Stranger]

Easy. The misconception is that somehow I was the ringleader in malp's lynch. The scum jumped all over that once they realized that they could let me take the fall for his lynch. I made two whole posts on my opinion on Malp, who was merely my RVS vote before I saw enough to leave my vote on him anyways.

Since scum were being opportunistic, that allowed Yabba to push on the people's wagon and cheerlead that wagon knowing that he could gain points once the Malp lynch went through. Hell Yabba, you KNEW that my plan was to go after the hanger-on scum if he flipped townie. So now you want to play the White Knight and flip this on me? Dont you see that what youre trying to pull is a scum-classic technique?

You werent very happy when I called out JAM, hell your panties were scrunched up more than his. Did JAM vote for me yet? Oh hey look at that, no he hasnt. Doesnt that look odd to you? Of course not, youre beating me up on his behalf. Im trying to figure out if Rikana or Shadow are scum, or misguided townies, but im not sure yet, seems kinda early in the wagon. Whoever plunked my next vote was likely going to be a third scum, but I figured I point this out now anyways since I know whats coming.

Either way, im happy with taking JAM out of the picture. He jumped on the Malp wagon at a very opportune time. I call him out and now he is being suspiciously quieter than normal and letting Yabba do all the work. So either youre both scum (which fits nicely with you declaring a hardcore green townie) or youre just a dumbass White Knight that deserves death for being one regardless.

My vote stays.

[Sky]

Malp has been all frenetic between OMGUS on Emp, to coming up with an excuse, any excuse to push suspicions on whoever is around at the time. In my experience, better behavior would be to refute the points and look find a scum. Maybe even list out points on people, but not necessarily just look for a scapegoat. Its almost as if he is putting feelers out there to see if scum buddies can start a competing wagon for him while he flails.

Im ok with a Malp lynch.

If for some reason we are wrong, we need to go after an off-voter.
If for some reason we are right, then we need to go after the ringleaders of the peoples wagon (sorry Yabbaguy)

And also, Malp was my RVS vote and I want to think my psychic powers still work.

This is the only time I found IS explaining his malp vote other than it being random. He's tunneling alright. But I was on the malp wagon. And there's really not much you can do on Day 1.

But now IS is still tunneling Day 2. He's determined to lynch Jam who I don't find ultra suspicious.

But the person I suspect more is Empking. I dismissed his minimalism Day 1, it being Day 1. But now it's Day 2 and he's determined to lynch Shadow, who has finally joined us. He has called him out for this:

Very happy with my vote now. That last post looks like scum catch up (its length though not being insightful). His vote also looks convenient.

While Shadow could be joining the IS bandwagon, it isn't as if Empking has been doing anything much insightful. He constantly votes with no explanation, and when there is one, it's minimal at best. I realize I haven't been insightful either, so call me a hypocrite, whatever, I'm lazy.

vote: Empking

And I still want to hear from Peregrine because this is silly:

@Sky, Yabba, Swift- Glad you noticed.

[JAMFTW]

I call him out and now he is being suspiciously quieter than normal

Suspiciously quieter than normal? IS, once again you seem to have this blind spot when it comes to my posts. I've been arguing with Rikana. I haven't been quiet. And I'm not dignifying the votes that are on me so far (What, all of two or three?) with a response because:

a) I don't feel a need to and then be called defensive for my troubles

b) Whatever wagon you're attempting to get on me hasn't be very effective so far

and

c) I'm more suspicious of the people that aren't voting for me than the people that are.

I can understand why scum would want to keep me alive. I haven't added

too

much of use, and then those that have tunnel vision on me can focus on me and ignore other, more likely candidates.

Speaking of which:

unvote

VOTE: Empking

Because he's added next to nothing to the conversation.

[Rikana]

If Sky is scum, JAMFTW is likely a partner.

[JAMFTW]

Right, because baseless accusations are the best way to go about this game.

C'mon man, I mean at least give a reason as to why you think that way.

[Rikana]

Because your vote is horrible to the tenth degree of 4900. You were on me for awhile, but then no one joined. Now you're hopping on Empking from, what I can tell, is only be voted due to not adding anything new.

Yabba already outlined how IS was doing that, and he started the BW. Therefore, not only is IS being hypocritical, which he will deny, you voted with him on something that isn't really that scummy.

[SnakePlissken]

Day 2 - Votecount I

1. SomeRandomGuy
2.

Internet Stranger - L3

(yabbaguy, Rikana, FightingShadow)

3. yabbaguy
4. PeregrineV
5.

FightingShadow - L5

(Empking)

6. Rikana
7.

JAMFTW - L3

(Internet Stranger, smallpeoples343, Swiftstrike)

8. Swiftstrike
10. smallpeoples343
12.

Empking - L3

(JAMFTW, PeregrineV, Sky)

13. Sky

Not Voting - SomeRandomGuy

Day 2 ends Friday 29th July at 18:30 GMT +1. With 11 alive it takes 6 to Lynch.

[yabbaguy]

Mod: Empking is voting FightingShadow, not the other way around. Emp's still on L-3, I believe.

Thanks, corrected

The most painful move I think I've ever made, but

Unvote

.

Internet Stranger a) was willing to engage and b) has

such

a terrible case on JAMFTW and me that goes all sorts of different directions and is desperately trying to connect dots with so little of the puzzle filled in, but it's looking much more like a tunnel vision case - I've been there and done that too. Town tend to want to "win" battles much more, scum not so much. I can't really put my finger on the reason, but that said, IS has shown he's willing to fight it out.

I've told you already how JAM is a poor choice to lynch. Empking... again, he's sort of in that orange zone, that's an acceptable lynch if it comes down to it, but I wonder if he's going to suddenly spring into action - it's also the smallpeoples dilemma for me. Sky sounds significantly more Town.

Vote: SomeRandomGuy

- I believe he's avoiding the game out of fear. You can just tell from his

really

cautious wording to the fact that he hasn't actually voted seriously - he RV'd Empking, then didn't actually want to vote malp. You can't even give him much credit for voicing much suspicion, I guess he was onto malp, but then sorta sat on his ass and didn't even vote to L-1. Obscuring this is the fact he genuinely went V/LA - but not on the 7th, he actually declared it on the 12th, and not here. Also, maybe there's scum on the malp wagon, but odds on there's one OFF as well.

@SRG:
1. Why did you lurk?
2. Who are your biggest suspicions in the game?

[SomeRandomGuy]

[quote="Yabba]Vote: SomeRandomGuy - I believe he's avoiding the game out of fear. You can just tell from his really cautious wording to the fact that he hasn't actually voted seriously - he RV'd Empking, then didn't actually want to vote malp. You can't even give him much credit for voicing much suspicion, I guess he was onto malp, but then sorta sat on his ass and didn't even vote to L-1. Obscuring this is the fact he genuinely went V/LA - but not on the 7th, he actually declared it on the 12th, and not here. Also, maybe there's scum on the malp wagon, but odds on there's one OFF as well.

@SRG:
1. Why did you lurk?
2. Who are your biggest suspicions in the game?[/quote]

What I'd say for you is to look at the other game i'm in (Newbie 1117) the inactive periods here will match up there, including the time i hadn't posted my V/LA. I had hoped my internet would be up much quicker than it was, the reason my posts slowed up before finally the v/la is because i was leeching internet across the road, the connection there got quite bad to the point of being unable to connect most of the time and my only real access to the net from then was walking to another street with my partners macbook which i did once or twice to prod dodge / say i'll be back soon. This was the reason i didn't place a vote onto Malp I had put an FoS in place i didn't want to take it to L-1 real early and by the time i got back to this game again the day had ended.

The inactivity has left me sort of treading water, both in my reads and post content - something which will shorlty be rectified.

As for my suspicions: I had been a little suspious of FS, this is why i asked about his dropping of Empking as one of his scum reads, it seemed a little odd, he's explained it fairly well and so that has cleared it up mostly for me. IS seems to be the most likely candidate to me: I find myself trusting 2 of the people on the wagon, I find that his commenting on lack of content yet adding little is as detrimental to town as lurkers yet also putting himself out there in good light, if FS seems oppertunistic to him, that seems oppertunistic to me.

VOTE: Internet Stranger

[yabbaguy]

Both quotes SRG.

What I'd say for you is to look at the other game i'm in (Newbie 1117) the inactive periods here will match up there, including the time i hadn't posted my V/LA.

I can't agree with that. I think it was between the 7th and the 10th that you had gone repeatedly for a game other than this one. Maybe it was whilst you were V/LA, but the fact is that when you went to mafiascum, you were more eager to go to another game over this one. Granted, this game was started in rather disinteresting fashion, but the fact is that you avoided this game. Out of fear. It's harder to say the right thing in a scum game whereas there are no wrong things to say in a Town game. Yet you proved yourself capable of coming to this game, and you didn't. There was a lot of support for malp - why ruin a perfectly good thing by making a reckless post from a state of vacation?

It's that and the caution in your voice. You're exercising so much caution in this game. Everything's going just fine, we're going all the wrong directions. You don't need to do a thing.

I had been a little suspious of FS, this is why i asked about his dropping of Empking as one of his scum reads, it seemed a little odd, he's explained it fairly well and so that has cleared it up mostly for me.

That was SUCH a nitpicky question. I mean, it's a question scum would ask really - trying to probe at some inconsistency that just really isn't all that scummy, yet you wish it were.

I don't think the way you're approaching scumhunting is actually someone trying to solve a puzzle.

[Internet Stranger]

Does anyone else find it peculiar that the two off-voters from the Malp lynch are suddenly hopping onto my easy wagon?

Im telling you, the scum are JAM and one of these two clowns. Yabba is coming to his senses somewhat, so im not as suspicious of him right now, despite his White Knighting, I will certainly be revisiting that later. That should also clear smallpeoples a bit for now as well.

Im going with JAM and one of Shadow or Randomguy. I did say that the next one to vote for me is surely scum too, and here comes RandomGuy to prove me right. Im still leaving my vote on JAM, but would love to see one of Shadow or RandomGuy lynched. I guess I would jump on another wagon out of self-preservation, but it really shouldnt come to that.