Mafia Invictus ~ Game Over!

[Gammagooey]

@TOWN - Do you think I am scum with Zachrulez? Because that's the ONLY way I could have possibly passed hammering him not once but twice. Especially since my death is being signed off on as 'necesarry' regardless of alignment.

Personally I disagree with this and think that it would only apply if you were bulletproof scum- Potentially living because you didn't hammer someone >>> taking a townie with you on your way down.
If you're feeling nice a few new and/or improved town reads would be a cool thing to give out before you die.

Fixed quote tag. ~Vi

[The Illuminati]

Mod: V/LA has come up. I will be gone from July 19th to July 23rd. Sorry if this is inconvenient.

I think DemonHybrid should be coming back soonish. Until then...

I refuse to vote MoI. I'm sorry, but this is getting ridiculous. MoI is not scum. I'm sorry. His lynch ISN'T HAPPENING. I almost hope he flips just so I can rub it in Fate's face.

Unvote
Vote: Gut

Seems like the best MoI alternative at the moment.

~Seraphim

[Tarhalindur]

Ur a lylo liability...right?

I advocate my own lynches when town and in such situations.

I'm only a LYLO liability if we don't actually lynch some scum. Like Gut or Nautilus. But this game is such a cluster-fuck I'm not going to cry if I have to get lynched today to get some actual scum lynched tomorrow and to appease all those players going "He can't live its too dangerous" (and there are some scum in there. Probably Gammagooey).

And even if I do die today I ask the remaining Town to stop listening to Fate. He really doesn't have a clue. All he's done is focus on me to the exclusion of ANYONE else since Day 1. He's probably not scum and just typical stupid and ego-driven Fate. But following him will run Town into the ground regardless. It's not like he's going to ever be NKed if he is Town since his play is so Pants-on-Head.

@TOWN

- Do you think I am scum with Zachrulez? Because that's the ONLY way I could have possibly passed hammering him not once but twice. Especially since my death is being signed off on as 'necesarry' regardless of alignment.

Wow.

Yeah, I'm not going to bother worrying about why MoI hasn't been hammered when he's made a post as 100% town as this. (Especially since I've come to suspect that scum have stayed off a MoI hammer because they were either setting up for a late mislynch or afraid of getting nailed by joining the wagon.)

Not for that last point (WIFOM reasons), but the rest of this post is town as fuck.

I am NO LONGER up for a MoI lynch today.

Gut's not scum because this doesn't look like CES-scum.

Zach's not scum because of reasons laid down earlier + gut.

Scum are four of Gamma/Benmage/Naut/Duplicity/VitR (who just CLAIMED scum behavior - standing off to the side is the biggest scumtell in single-faction games). Can we PLEASE get one of them run up before deadline? 22 hours is still a long time.

Unvote, Vote: Duplicity

- best shot of getting to lynch given the time limit and Ban's vote. Give me another wagon in the scum 5 above before deadline and I'll hop.

[Benmage]

unvote Vote Gut

L-2

[VitaminR]

Eh.

Unvote, Vote: Duplicity

[DrippingGoofball]

I've been skipping Duplicity's posts. I get impatient when I read them.

Is there a tl;dr version of the case somewhere?

[Tarhalindur]

I've been skipping Duplicity's posts. I get impatient when I read them.

Is there a tl;dr version of the case somewhere?

Post 528 (bad Gamma argument, trying to divert me, parts re: danceHello), post 837 (scum reaction to Gamma/Fate, "town but" comments on Benmage, possible distancing from Nautilius), general continued attempts to portray Gamma as confirmed town with increasingly desperate reasoning as I demolished their argument (along with Benmage, which isn't surprising in the slightest given the rest of their interactions), generally on the same wavelength with Gamma/Benmage in a fashion that suggests out-of-game communication (a scum axis). That last one is the most damning (wake up and smell the scum axis!); it's also why I suspect Naut over VitR (Naut mindset fits scum axis, VitR doesn't).

---

In fact, while I'm at it, let's go over some danceHello posts here, because I think I FINALLY found the best-fit solution to why dance was killed:

The only potential downside to the invictus voting plan involves mafia having the possiblity and opportunity to manipulate the votes during the day phase to prevent themselves from being incivitused however the votes will provide massive amounts of content and interactions to read back for later in the game.

Not understanding the BabySpice votes, sure she's a weaker player however she'll be relatively easy to read correctly later in the game removing any potential gain from invictusing her early, furthermore the placement and timing of her Tarh vote and avoidance of the Spyrex wagon reads as slightly town.

voteDuplicity

This wagon is go. Such a slimy input to the Invictus talk, mentions a negative and a positive but never a verdict. Also the stance on Baby Spice is lulzy.

@Zach: being obtuse back at the stubborn doesn't mean you win. Everyone loses.

-inHim

Duplicity saw TOWNFATE doin' his thing, so he jumps on the Invictus vote bandwagon, but then some opponents (well not really lolz DGB) to the plan arise, he decides he better put some neutral thoughts on the subject.

QED scum.

-inHim

Dance, I made it abundantly obvious that I believe the perks greatly outwayed the minimal negatives which is incredibly obvious via the statement of

only

potentially downside.

Jesus fucking Christ. It took me five minutes to figure out what you were even saying. I can't tell if you're trying to look smart which is completely negated by saying 'outwayed', or if you're trying to deliberately obfuscate your posts with a lack of conciseness. Either way it's scummy. Additionally, your invictus vote is of no use on yourself, I urge you to do something productive with it immediately.

-PBuG

Self-explanatory I think.

Can we PLEASE lynch Duplicity now?

[Fate]

This is fucking ridiculous game.

FUCKING RIDICULOUS

Unvote:
Vote: Duplicity

MASS INVICTUS OVER MAFIA ACTIVATED:

MAGNA OF ILLUSION HAS BEEN MADE PERMANENT INCIVTUS TARGET UNTIL HE DIES

Thank you and good night.

[Nautilius]

Why the FUCK can't this town lynch anybody?

Illuminati, MoI is fucking dying. He's not dying by lynch. He's dying by guns and bullets and justice.

Zach is the only lynch I care about. Will hammer on sight.

[Duplicity]

Hey everyone, looks like I got to a comp just in time. Hmm...Let's look! Oooh, a post to tear apart! It makes me feel giddy in anticipation!

Post 528 (bad Gamma argument, trying to divert me, parts re: danceHello), post 837 (scum reaction to Gamma/Fate, "town but" comments on Benmage, possible distancing from Nautilius), general continued attempts to portray Gamma as confirmed town with increasingly desperate reasoning as I demolished their argument (along with Benmage, which isn't surprising in the slightest given the rest of their interactions), generally on the same wavelength with Gamma/Benmage in a fashion that suggests out-of-game communication (a scum axis). That last one is the most damning (wake up and smell the scum axis!); it's also why I suspect Naut over VitR (Naut mindset fits scum axis, VitR doesn't).

---

In fact, while I'm at it, let's go over some danceHello posts here, because I think I FINALLY found the best-fit solution to why dance was killed:

The only potential downside to the invictus voting plan involves mafia having the possiblity and opportunity to manipulate the votes during the day phase to prevent themselves from being incivitused however the votes will provide massive amounts of content and interactions to read back for later in the game.

Not understanding the BabySpice votes, sure she's a weaker player however she'll be relatively easy to read correctly later in the game removing any potential gain from invictusing her early, furthermore the placement and timing of her Tarh vote and avoidance of the Spyrex wagon reads as slightly town.

voteDuplicity

This wagon is go. Such a slimy input to the Invictus talk, mentions a negative and a positive but never a verdict. Also the stance on Baby Spice is lulzy.

@Zach: being obtuse back at the stubborn doesn't mean you win. Everyone loses.

-inHim

Duplicity saw TOWNFATE doin' his thing, so he jumps on the Invictus vote bandwagon, but then some opponents (well not really lolz DGB) to the plan arise, he decides he better put some neutral thoughts on the subject.

QED scum.

-inHim

Dance, I made it abundantly obvious that I believe the perks greatly outwayed the minimal negatives which is incredibly obvious via the statement of

only

potentially downside.

Jesus fucking Christ. It took me five minutes to figure out what you were even saying. I can't tell if you're trying to look smart which is completely negated by saying 'outwayed', or if you're trying to deliberately obfuscate your posts with a lack of conciseness. Either way it's scummy. Additionally, your invictus vote is of no use on yourself, I urge you to do something productive with it immediately.

-PBuG

Self-explanatory I think.

Can we PLEASE lynch Duplicity now?

Oh boy, this'll be fun. Let's start with Dance.

Dance was voting on a misunderstanding that I later cleared up personally. You conveniently leave out the following posts from dance:

"I invictused voted myself." does not mean "I invictused myself". It means we voted for an invictus. If you had actually been paying attention you'd see that. The fact that you push on things that are either inaccurate or inconsequential makes it very difficult to read you.

My bad, I tend to misinterpret people when they don't use commas correctly~

That said, I really like that post of yours, but unless I get a better read off your other head or

my

other head sees fit to unvote, the vote stays.

-PBuG

May I suggest the great combo deal of lynching sil and invictusing one of Baby/Zach/Gut?

Unvote

You just proposed invictusing three of my top four scumreads (MoI being the other) so I can't possibly justify voting you. I'll elaborate on them tomorrow. I don't know how dedicated my other head was to our vote for you but he'll just have to deal.

- PBuG
P.S. inHim, DEALWITHIT

Dealt with.

-inHim

Dance, I have a tendancy to use larger words than needed in my posts and it becomes much more incoherent in the early hours of the morning so my apologies but in future I'll try to be much more concise. If I may ask what means of communication are you two attempting to use to discuss read differences because your disagreement in thread reads strongly as if you haven't stopped to have a conversation on MSN or in QT.

We're talking in QT, and we don't have differences in reads, I simply didn't like having our vote on you anymore and didn't want to wait for inHim's permission to take it off. loldealwithit.

- PBuG
P.S. *tendency

Here Dance says they no longer have differences in reads. "Didn't like having our vote on you anymore" is the key phrase here. Now Tar, please elaborate on why you decided to use as a case a misunderstanding that was obviously cleared up later.

It's important to note this was after the posts Tar quoted.

Oh yeah, and I believe someone asked me about this. As for the case on Zach, it's much smaller than you think. I meant to find more but I hadn't gotten around to it before the wagon. But sure.

For your convenience, editor's notes are in italics and my Zach quotes are in bold.

Most of Zach's posts are literally little or no content whatsoever, trying to fly under the radar like so:

Example: Zach-

You're wrong. KEKEKE

Editor's Note: Post #211

First real useful post is #226, his 11th:

I was hoping to get him to actually qualify his statement with well... anything with that remark.

@Duplicity: If/when Baby Spice posts more, it's possible my position on her will change, for these 5 minutes though, she's doing a lot of nothing.

Still not much. At all. He needs to be pressured more.

He also decides to pull random bullshit about lynching BS with this:

Baby Spice didn't post at all last night.

But I'm sure that's because I'm making a case based on time zones.

Lynch her with fire please.

Editior's Note: Post #389

Then the last thing I've found in the skim is this:

So Baby Spice is scum.

Unvote: Vote: Baby Spice

Invictus: Gut

He follows this up THE VERY NEXT POST with a quote of me changing my invictus to Baby Spice, and the following comment:

Wouldn't want to do something crazy like keep your invictus vote on scum now would you? Or explain why Gut was apparently a bad vote.

Didn't he just call BS scum? I understand he's asking why I switched from Gut, but he couldn't possibly be complaining about me switching from his second FOS to his top one.

I smell some strong distancing between Gut/Zach.

Anyway, this is half a gut read and half a logic read but I'm pretty sure I'll find more if I look, which I will in the next day or so.

Yeah, I know it's really not that much but my gut read is strong and I've been meaning to add on. I will if I get the time.

On to Tar's post by post.

Post 528 (bad Gamma argument, trying to divert me, parts re: danceHello), post 837 (scum reaction to Gamma/Fate, "town but" comments on Benmage, possible distancing from Nautilius), general continued attempts to portray Gamma as confirmed town with increasingly desperate reasoning as I demolished their argument (along with Benmage, which isn't surprising in the slightest given the rest of their interactions), generally on the same wavelength with Gamma/Benmage in a fashion that suggests out-of-game communication (a scum axis). That last one is the most damning (wake up and smell the scum axis!); it's also why I suspect Naut over VitR (Naut mindset fits scum axis, VitR doesn't).

Post 582 with the Gamma argument. Oh boy, time to argue this out again

Scenarios:

Gamma/Quil town, Scum have no doctor: Kill KK, get Gamma/Quil killed. It fails, Gamma is clear.

Gamma/Quil town, Scum have doctor: See above, Gamma/Quil is clear.

Gamma/Quil mafia, Scum have no doctor: Gamma/Quil dies, this possibility has a chance of 0.

Gamma/Quil mafia, Scum have doctor: Gamma/Quil does not die, looks very odd to town that Gamma did not die. It will become obvious that Gamma was not saved by a town doctor unless Scum doc claims town doc. Linking 2 mafia as a permanent team is not a good idea, chance of occurrence is low.

Asking you a legitimate question is not diverting you.

#837

"Scum reaction to Gamma/Fate" Regfan stated that Gamma/Fate bickering was not helping town whatsoever and needed to end. Please elaborate on how this is a scumtell. As for the "town but" Regfan asked for Benmage to give his reads on the votes. We like elaboration, deal with it. The Nautilus distancing was Regfan promising to read into him for a better read, along with you. Are we distancing you too? As for wavelengths, getting that someone is more than likely clear is not something that requires very much thought. Especially when you don't think of a scumdoc interfering with things

Tar: Do you acknowledge that if there is no scumdoc Gamma is clear? And that scumdoc saving the invictus is not something one is likely to come up with right away?

Now, on to the next ones!

..Oh, wait. That's it. Awwwwww.

More content coming soon kids, invite your friends! For now though, Uncle Shift's got to go to bed!

Also, Fate in the event I am lynched, when MoI and I both flip town I demand the lynch gets turned over to someone who can actually use it.

Anyway, though my primary choice for the lynch today is Zach, I am willing to compromise for a lynch on Gut due to the deadline. Likely scum lynch is as good as Very Likely scum lynch I suppose, and definitely better than lynching me.

-Shift

[Gammagooey]

Duplicity Zach was commenting on you changing your invictus from Baby Spice to Zach, not from gut to baby spice.
I'm not even going to bother changing my vote because it seems like nobody else is willing to hammer anything this game. I'd prefer Gut's death over Duplicitys though.

[Gammagooey]

Oh and Gut if you're reading this And won't be on later today you should probably go ahead and claim since you're at L-2, Duplicity is willing to vote you, and I'm getting steadily closer to hammering anything that moves.

[Vi]

Mini Vote Count:
Gut (L-2) ~ DrippingGoofball, MagnaofIllusion, Zachrulez, The Illuminati, Benmage
Duplicity (L-3) ~ Ban, Tarhalindur, VitaminR, Fate
Zachrulez (L-4) ~ Nautilius, Gut,

The Illuminati,

Duplicity
MagnaofIllusion (L-6) ~

VitaminR, Fate,

Gammagooey,

Benmage

Gammagooey (L-7) ~

Tarhalindur

(Minimum L-7)

--Deadline is Tuesday, July 19 at 2100 EST.

((expired on 2011-07-19 21:00:00))

[MagnaofIllusion]

Eh.

Unvote, Vote: Duplicity

And you ask why I think you are scum?

Your reason for voting me was

1. Unexplainable 'gut' after you folded on your initial "It was Meta" stance.
2. Derp-Following Fate.

Now you're once again hopping on a bandwagon with nada in the way of explanation. Just "Hop Hop Hop".

I checked your ISO. Not a peep about Duplicity before this vote. Scumtastic.

Also I see no signs of actual scum-hunting in your ISO. Your only posts of substance are defenses from Ban and myself. And some soft "CES is my little brother, blah, blah, blah" useless posting that attempts to give him a "He's always scummy" pass.

Following Pants-on-Head-Town Fate around while you flails is a great Scum tactic.

[Fate]

Duplicity is claiming scum.

Boy is he mad we couldt just "mislynch" Gut or Zach

[DrippingGoofball]

Duplicity is claiming scum.

Boy is he mad we couldt just "mislynch" Gut or Zach

What did he say exactly? No way I'm going to read that wall.

[VitaminR]

Eh.

Unvote, Vote: Duplicity

And you ask why I think you are scum?

I never asked why you think I'm scum. I asked whether you do. As in what probability you assign to me being scum. But anyway.

Your reason for voting me was

1. Unexplainable 'gut' after you folded on your initial "It was Meta" stance.
2. Derp-Following Fate.

It was only 1. I'm not a Fate-sheep. I just happened to agree with Fate on you. And you need to get over whatever hang-up you have about Fate (same goes for Fate, btw).

Now you're once again hopping on a bandwagon with nada in the way of explanation. Just "Hop Hop Hop".

Oh yeah, look at the crazy bandwagonning I've been doing! I've voted like three players all game.

I checked your ISO. Not a peep about Duplicity before this vote. Scumtastic.

I mentioned being willing to lynch him once before, for what it's worth. I thought he was town for a while, but now I think he may have been slipping under the radar. He's been voting for easy targets all game (e.g. silavor, Baby Spice, Gut) and I didn't like how he unvoted Gut to think about things (both because it seemed designed to score town points, while keeping the Gut option open, and because his re-think conveniently led to the next big wagon, Zach).

Also I see no signs of actual scum-hunting in your ISO. Your only posts of substance are defenses from Ban and myself. And some soft "CES is my little brother, blah, blah, blah" useless posting that attempts to give him a "He's always scummy" pass.

God, you're so annoying. You need to seriously get over yourself. I get that you may think I'm scum. I don't think my play looks particularly pro-town. But how is giving my opinion on CES "useless posting"? Why is everything I do scummy just because you have mentally categorised me some sort of mindless Fatesheep that you must be an ass to all game long?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I never asked why you think I'm scum. I asked whether you do. As in what probability you assign to me being scum. But anyway.

Aside from the pointless nitpicking you aren’t going to get a “What % chance is VitaminR” scum form me. That’s needlessly assigning totally subjective numbers. If I think you are scum I think you are scum.

It was only 1. I'm not a Fate-sheep. I just happened to agree with Fate on you. And you need to get over whatever hang-up you have about Fate (same goes for Fate, btw).

You aren’t a Fate-sheep? Interesting given that you just happily jumped on Duplicity right after Fate with no reasoning. And haven't pretty much done anything other than slap your vote with him since Day 2 began.

If the same goes for Fate why haven’t you said word one about it all game? You’ve never wavered from “I agree with Fate” during all his pointless rhetorical fluff. The only thing you mentioned was that you didn’t want Gamma to replace out (which looks like tons of grandstanding, BTW).

Oh yeah, look at the crazy bandwagonning I've been doing! I've voted like three players all game.

Hey look, a Strawman. The bandwagoning isn’t why you are scum-tastic. It’s the way you have basically made all non-RVS votes with no reasoning while conveniently bandwagonning that makes you so. Oh and you were on the totes scum Spyrex bandwagon.

I mentioned being willing to lynch him once before, for what it's worth.

Point me out to the post where you detail why you were willing to lynch him please.

God, you're so annoying. You need to seriously get over yourself. I get that you may think I'm scum. I don't think my play looks particularly pro-town. But how is giving my opinion on CES "useless posting"? Why is everything I do scummy just because you have mentally categorised me some sort of mindless Fatesheep that you must be an ass to all game long?

You admit that your play isn’t Pro-Town and call me annoying for drawing the conclusion you are scum? Lulz.

Your opinion on Gut is useless because it is based on giving him a “CES is always scummy looking” pass. Sorry, that’s pure crap. If he plays scummy he should be hung high. And the only reason you aren’t voting him (since you are specifically admitting that Gut’s play is scummy) is because he’s your ‘little brother’. That’s the worst possible reason I can see.

Yeah, the "You are annoying" fake emotion is a nice touch, BTW.

Your reads are the opposite of mine. I know I’m Town.
You dropped your vote on me for “UM,NOTHING” reasons and have held it there for two days.
You aren’t scum-hunting.

If you are Town you are doing it wrong. But I seriously doubt you are at this stage.

Gut and Nautilus are pretty solidly your partners. Figuring out any others will take more work.

[VitaminR]

Magna, this is a game and I want to enjoy myself. I've hinted at this a couple of times already, but I guess it wasn't clear enough. Could you tone down things a little bit? I find it really hard to have discussions with people who persist in being so abrasive.

[Gut]

I AM always scummy looking (heck, Lowell once considered voting for me over claimed scum). Thus me being scummy looking doesn't make me scummy and I shouldn't be hung. This is textbook stuff.

The way you're approaching me now isn't anything like the way you approached me in DW:

Because CES is playing like every direct iteration of CES I have ever seen. For me the test with him will be Day 2 to Day 3 (if I'm around then) looking at where he as voted and when in context of some flips.

Motivation either Town or Scum will be found there for him there.

CES is much like Fate to me - he actively has cultivated a playstyle I actively despise. But he's actively consistent with it. He's not going to change just by being effectively Policy Lynched. I'm doing the best I can with what I have.

You went after me not knowing it was me thinking I was a nice juicy mislynch and you refused to give up on it when the truth came out. Now you're just bullshitting to try and get the lynch through. This is exactly the sort of thing I had in mind when I chose to hide my identity for a while.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You went after me not knowing it was me thinking I was a nice juicy mislynch and you refused to give up on it when the truth came out. Now you're just bullshitting to try and get the lynch through. This is exactly the sort of thing I had in mind when I chose to hide my identity for a while.

Nice try. You just grabbed a post from Day 1 (before any flips had happened) and tried to equate it this game. For the record note I didn't call you scum until after you participated in the horrible Spyrex Day 1 lynch and then made us some babble about how it "undermined" your Bandwagonning standard play that you back-tracked on later. I'm judging your slot on your votes and play.

Your play is scumtastic. It doesn't matter whether you 'hid your identity' or not. In fact I'd say you did that so you could have an 'out' if you got under pressure by sayikng "Hey, it's me CES don't lynch me for Meta". Which is exactly what you ended up doing. CES in Return to Liten didn't only appear when his name was in the spotlight of a wagon. Just like you are doing now.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna, this is a game and I want to enjoy myself. I've hinted at this a couple of times already, but I guess it wasn't clear enough. Could you tone down things a little bit? I find it really hard to have discussions with people who persist in being so abrasive.

Oh I'm sorry I'm not really caring as Fate's been his abrasive regular self all game and the only peep you made is when Gamma 'claimed' he was going to replace.

If you think suspecting you and calling you scum is abrasive behavior then so be it. It's not changing.

You haven't provide any reasons in this discussion disputing my points. You are just hiding behind the "I like to have fun, you aren't playing nice" shield as opposed to showing why my reasons for suspecting you aren't valid.

[Gut]

For the record note I didn't call you scum until after you participated in the horrible Spyrex Day 1 lynch and then made us some babble about how it "undermined" your Bandwagonning standard play that you back-tracked on later. I'm judging your slot on your votes and play.

That SpyreXvote is so par for the course for me it's not even funny. I don't get why you attach that much significance to the "undermine" comment; you can't really believe my playstyle was going to change overnight.

In fact I'd say you did that so you could have an 'out' if you got under pressure by sayikng "Hey, it's me CES don't lynch me for Meta".

Rather than just avoid the pressure in the first place? That sounds like smart scum play! Why would I willingly dance into the spotlight as scum, MoI?

CES in Return to Liten didn't only appear when his name was in the spotlight of a wagon.

Let me drag up a quote from you from that game. Note: MoI was scum that game.

I note with some interest that CES has gone into hibernation since the focus has shifted off him.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Let me drag up a quote from you from that game. Note: MoI was scum that game.

I note with some interest that CES has gone into hibernation since the focus has shifted off him.

Oh, so dragging a quote from a particular moment in the game demostrates how, as a whole, the game went?

Let's have some specifics. What Day was that? What was the wagon situation? If you are going to go "Meta" give some back-up rather than just an isolated line that you weakly try to link to "Meta".

[Gut]

It shows you should know better if you're town.

It was D3 after the wagon on me had fallen apart if you must know.