NY136: The Death of ReaperCharlie (GAME OVER, Town win!)

[killerjester]

I've read up through the D1 lynch, and I have to go now but from where I stand right now I can tell you that D1 Meransiel did give me a town feel, Mastin wasn't around for much of D1, and oddly enough I didn't get a town feel from you. I'll finish reading the last 15 pages and let you know if my opinion changes on you (I'll be sure to note where they do in this case). If anyone else is interested in a particular part, please ask, otherwise I'll just promise a quick overview once I'm fully caught up.

[Yosarian2]

...Yeah...

I'm not sold on Shanba, yet. (Heavily, HEAVILY leaning towards it, of course.)

But Yos?

Sealing the deal with every post he makes.

Do you have an actual case, or are you just going to use your confirmed town status to lead the entire town in totally the wrong direction by just announcing over and over again that certain people are scum when you're pretty clearly wrong about everything?

The only reason you EVER gave for suspecting me was the argument with PJ, and even PJ dropped that case ages ago, because he was logically shown to be wrong.

Just because you're confirmed town and aren't going to get lynched, mastin, doesn't mean you should play like crap.

[MrBuddyLee]

Do you have an actual case, or are you just going to use your confirmed town status to lead the entire town in totally the wrong direction by just announcing over and over again that certain people are scum when you're pretty clearly wrong about everything?

Can you please be more specific about the "everything" mastin's wrong about? For reference:

Town
Iec
Mastin
Meransiel
MBL
PJ
Hydra
ToastyToast

Hmm
Pine
CTD
Yos
Shanba

Scum
DemonHybrid
saporovirus
Parama

[Yosarian2]

Do you have an actual case, or are you just going to use your confirmed town status to lead the entire town in totally the wrong direction by just announcing over and over again that certain people are scum when you're pretty clearly wrong about everything?

Can you please be more specific about the "everything" mastin's wrong about?

Not that list, but this thing he's been pushing for his last several posts, with no logic and absolutely no reason behind it, is pretty terrible:

Parama-Sapo-Yos2-Shanba just seems so...right.

As a scumteam.

Out of those 4, the only one who seems likely to be scum is Parama. I'm town, shanba's probably town, and sapo is likely to be town. None of the connections make any sense either; the closest thing he's come to a reason is the "Yos is calling shanba town so they're probably scum together" argument, which is just a bad argument on every possible level. And none of his links really make sense at all. And yet people are taking his non-case seriously because he's a confirmed townie. I really shouldn't lose my temper here, it doesn't help anything in this case, but it's just frustrating.

[petroleumjelly]

The only reason you EVER gave for suspecting me was the argument with PJ, and even PJ dropped that case ages ago, because he was logically shown to be wrong.

That's funny, I don't recall saying (or thinking) any such thing. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've already explained the reason I stopped bulldogging you was because (i) we had already taken up three pages of discussion, i.e., plenty of stuff for others to form opinions on, and (ii) I didn't want to spend all of my time focusing on just one player, so I continued to move my vote around. I still don't like your posting, and I most certainly have not been "logically shown to be wrong." That's a pretty strong statement to make, though.

~

By the way, you certainly took your sweet time answering what was supposed to be a

quick

experiment. You know, the experiment where I wanted to check if you

actually had any scumreads

in your mind on Monday?

Because I noticed you failed to answer it on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, so I repeated it while on V/LA on Friday, and then you apparently reread the entire game just to answer the question on Saturday.

It doesn’t take

five

days to answer whether you currently have any other scumreads besides attacking (i) the guy everybody is already voting, and (ii) the only person actually attacking you.

~

PPE: I'm terribly sorry you're so frustrated, Yosarian2! Being attacked by somebody who has been "logically shown to be wrong" and Mastin2 while having exactly zero votes on you must be exceedingly rough! You poor thing.

FoS: Yosarian2

.

[petroleumjelly]

Actually.

Unvote: Bowser, Vote: Yosarian2

. I just checked your posts, and even now your play is 100% reactive. You have not been proactive in the slightest.

All

you do is:

1.)

Answer questions people pose to you;

2.)

Disagree on theory; and

3.)

When somebody makes a negative comment about you, you jump in to dispel it.

And that's pretty much it. I can't even make a charitable case for you actually trying to scumhunt in the last couple weeks. You are only posting as you are feel required to post, and I do not get an inquisitive feel from you in the slightest. You are pretty much posting in order to not get lynched.

Oh, and protip, I didn't like your weak attempt at buddying with mastin2 in Post 831 for "best musical vote." I rather doubt you would have given mastin2 any "awesome points" for it if he didn't just happen to be confirmed innocent.

My vote can quite easily move back to Parama, but for those who are dawdling and doing nothing, Yosarian2 sure looks like he could use some votes.

[Meransiel]

Pj, your opinion on Shanba please? I feel he's just as reactive.

[petroleumjelly]

I don't really have a read on Shanba, but I

rather

disagree that Shanba has been "just as reactive" as Yosarian2. When Shanba posts, he at least gives opinions on players, and he has actually been using his vote in the process. His worst attribute this game is his very distinct lack of posting, but I don't recall much in his actual posting that seemed particularly scummy to me.

[Hydra]

@Hydra: I already gave my reads, including my top two scum. Read. It obviously did nothing to propel the discussion, other than get sappo to make a shitty vote (who Amrun is now searching to find a replacement)
I'm mad at Parama for replacement cuz he was all like YAYYY WE R BEST NEIGHBORS EVERRRR then replaced

The point is, that instead of trying some other way to do something, you just complained that you were mad and angry and pissed.

@Hydra again: I'm voting CTD because the slot he replaced into was scummy, and his posts haven't really changed that yet...Yeah, they aren't terrible but they don't scream town either

So you're voting someone that is most probably 'null' to you? Over those other people in the 'burnt toast' category, which include DemonHybrid and Shanba?

I'm thinking the reverse. I think Shanba is scummy and because Yos sees him as town...yeah.

I'm not sure we follow this line of logic here. In the abstract, What is wrong with someone getting a townread on someone you think is scum? This has to happen a lot in games you play.

I think saporovirus/KJ is the most likely scum. Sapo would at least give an explanation if she were town. I think she would be more likely to flake like this strategically.

(meh, she flaked out of another large normal I am in with her, so I don't think that argument is valid.)

Still I would have like all my questions posed towards her here answered. I found her play and logic especially anti-town.

[ToastyToast]

So you're voting someone that is most probably 'null' to you? Over those other people in the 'burnt toast' category, which include DemonHybrid and Shanba?

...Hresz was the lowest on my list. CTD replaced him. CTD has not changed my read on the slot, so why should I remove my vote?

I wasn't really complaining, either. Calling the game slow-moving is just a matter of fact. It is slow moving.

[Bowser]

On page 27 right now. I don't like Yos2's play thus far.

More tonight.

[Yosarian2]

A. Really thinking PJ is town here. I don't think he attacks me like this, this way, if he's scum. I was expecting him to continue to disengage from me if he was scum. He's wrong, of course, but he's probably town.

B. I've done my best to get a read on everyone in the game, and I shared it. I did an entire re-read to clarify my thoughts. Sorry if that's not good enough, PJ, but that's all I've got, and all I'm likely to have today unless something more informative happens. I don't know what else to say. If you have questions about specific people, please ask them (although then you'll probably just call me "reactive" again or whatever.) And just to make this even crappier, I'm going to be going on V/LA next week, so, yeah. Fun times.

C. If we all agree that Parama is probably scum, then why can't we just bloody lynch him (well, his replacement, Bowser)? Even the people attacking me all seem to thing Parama is scum. I haven't heard anyone defend him as town, with the possible exception of Shanba, and yet it's been amazingly hard to get a wagon going on him. This strongly implies that the scum don't want him lynched. Can't we just lynch the semi-lurking obvscum today?

We haven't heard much from Bowser yet, but the two posts he's made so far with any kind of content look bad:

Oh crap. replacing a scummy as hell slot.

I'm going to take some time aside and do this.

Followed by:

Look at my wagon. It's probably scum-driven.

If Bowser's slot was "scummy as hell", then why is the wagon against him "probably scum driven"? If Parama looked scummy, which Bowser apparently admits, then why wouldn't town wagon him?

[Yosarian2]

Ah, and one more content post while I was writing that, calling me scum with no reasoning. Of course.

[MrBuddyLee]

Yos: Do you think PJ is scum?

@Shanba

: Do you think PJ is scum? You haven't given an opinion, or maybe I'm blind.

Your play is pretty different from what it was in Oldy. In that game, I had my eye on you for the first few days, but Ether was right that you kind of bled town when you posted. I'm not seeing that in this game. What's the deal? Also, you still owe me an answer from this January 13th question:

Shanba, how's your play different in this game than you play as scum?

@PJ

: Considering deadline's in three days, do you really think a Yos wagon is happening?

[ToastyToast]

@Yosarian: Why rush? If a replacement has a chance of chaning town's mind, let them. You are sounding more and more desperate as this day goes on. Your over-defensiveness towards mastin is noted, as is your "don't lynch me!" attitude towards PJ.

[Yosarian2]

@Yosarian: Why rush? If a replacement has a chance of chaning town's mind, let them.

Because he's scum. Why do you want to give the scum a chance to change the town's mind?

Plus, you know, 3 days until deadline.

You are sounding more and more desperate as this day goes on. Your over-defensiveness towards mastin is noted, as is your "don't lynch me!" attitude towards PJ.

vdsvcdvfsDVSjv24g jvidsfjoviFJSVDnfs vnnt2o4itfjdsjDVGASo;jidsiI#EW#(*(O:IIIIDIFVJDEIFJDKIVVDVMKDMMKKMKKMNKMKMMMMMMNOLEFDFDF DFASF ADFCV AEF @QR DFADFVQEF SAEDF QFEADFEFAESW DFA DGFAS DFASDFAS DGFAE GFASD FAEWDGAEDGZADVGZADGFAEST#QE T#QDGFADGAEDGAEGRET#QT#QDTGAEDGADFAEDFADFASTGQEWdgnfscdgzn

That being said, you do realize that I am at one vote right now, and it's 3 days until deadline, right? If I was scum, I wouldn't be at all worried by the attacks against me right now.

[MrBuddyLee]

vdsvcdvfsDVSjv24g jvidsfjoviFJSVDnfs vnnt2o4itfjdsjDVGASo;jidsiI#EW#(*(O:IIIIDIFVJDEIFJDKIVVDVMKDMMKKMKKMNKMKMMMMMMNOLEFDFDF DFASF ADFCV AEF @QR DFADFVQEF SAEDF QFEADFEFAESW DFA DGFAS DFASDFAS DGFAE GFASD FAEWDGAEDGZADVGZADGFAEST#QE T#QDGFADGAEDGAEGRET#QT#QDTGAEDGADFAEDFADFASTGQEWdgnfscdgzn

no coded messages allowed plz

[Yosarian2]

Oh, don't worry, that was just the sound of me slamming my face into the keyboard repeatedly.

[petroleumjelly]

@PJ

: Considering deadline's in three days, do you really think a Yos wagon is happening?

You know, if you're trying to insinuate that I am trying to (i) save Bowser from being lynched, or (ii) get the Town to No-Lynch, just say it. I can't say I find your constant questioning particularly appealing this game. You've asked a good deal of questions in this game, and by now I expect more opinions from you.

To answer your question, though, I was pretty clear when I voted that I think there are a lot of players who are doing pretty much nothing with their vote, and if they're just going to sit there doing nothing, they might as well vote Yosarian2. Do I

honestly

think Yosarian2 will be lynched today? No, I don't. But seeing as I

know

I will be around before deadline and that I can obviously switch my vote to Bowser at pretty much any time to secure a lynch, I do not feel obligated in the slightest to keep my vote just sitting on Bowser.

[ToastyToast]

That being said, you do realize that I am at one vote right now, and it's 3 days until deadline, right? If I was scum, I wouldn't be at all worried by the attacks against me right now.

1)My read on Parama is null, not scum
2)With multiple people announcing that they find you suspicious? Yeah, you would be worried as scum. Having 3 days only limits my options, which means I'm going to have to unvote hrezs/CTD. Of the people who have a chance of getting lynched, you do look like a possibility.

What makes Parama scummier than DH, in your opinion?

[MrBuddyLee]

You know, if you're trying to insinuate that I am trying to (i) save Bowser from being lynched, or (ii) get the Town to No-Lynch, just say it.

Considering you stated specifically that you'd move to Parama in a heartbeat, that wasn't the point of the question. I'm more curious to know why Yosarian and not saporovirus or DemonHybrid, who you claim to suspect, and who each have small wagons on them.

[petroleumjelly]

Actually, MrBuddyLee, I haven't said I suspected saporovirus. She is not a suspect in particular beyond being in the pool of nine players I am willing to lynch. As for why I am voting Yosarian2 over DemonHybrid, the only answer would be that Yosarian2 just did something that made me want to vote for him

right now

whereas DemonHybrid has not.

Furthermore, the "small wagon" on DemonHyrbid only consists of Hrezs' vote. And since Hrezs has been replaced by CrashTextDummie, and CrashTextDummie has still not read the entire game, that's not really something I would even consider to be a true vote at the moment unless he affirms it to be in line with his actual opinion on who to vote.

So, are you actually going to start imparting us with some wisdom yet? If you're Town, I'd rather like to hear your opinion on things before we hit Night, since people have this weird of habit of dying during Nights.

[Bowser]

Mod: Please extend deadline by a day or two. Three days isn't enough time for me to get my head straight when I have 3 other games I'm playing (soon to reach 5 other games), plus stuff in Mish-Mash to take care of too.

Also, I don't believe in meta. It doesn't work with me.

Catching up in other games, then will post more here.

[MrBuddyLee]

Furthermore, the "small wagon" on DemonHyrbid only consists of Hrezs' vote. And since Hrezs has been replaced by CrashTextDummie, and CrashTextDummie has still not read the entire game, that's not really something I would even consider to be a true vote at the moment unless he affirms it to be in line with his actual opinion on who to vote.

Actually, CTD has weighed in, finding DH scummy. This sounds like an excuse from you, not a legitimate read of the current situation.

What's your opinion of DH right now?

Since you asked nicely for opinions, I'm leaning towards Parama-scummish, saporo-scummish, DH-townish. Big picture, Parama is scum for previously stated reasons, saporo pushed DH as a legit and non-bussish lynch and hopped on and off Parama oddly. Paramascum would benefit by keeping DH-town around for protection, and DH's approach to the game generally comes across as townish to me. Other players tie in to this picture, but those three fit together the tightest.


I didn't like this recent post from saporo:

I am down for the Hrezs wagon. His posts of content have mainly been things others have already argued aaaand flakiness.

after giving this reason for hopping off the Parama wagon:

saporo, why did you unvote?

He was at L2 when I counted. Too early for anyone to be this close to a hammer.

She unvoted, claimed to be waiting for his big content post:

I am willing to wait for your amazing content though.

unvote

then didn't comment on it when it arrived and instead sleazed over to Hrez. Does not make sense at all from a town perspective.

If saporo is scum protecting Parama, Hrez/CTD is probably town who's the alternative lynchbait today, but that's getting far afield.

[petroleumjelly]

Uh hunh. And what am I "making excuses" for, MrBuddyLee? Not voting for DemonHybrid? Instead of insinuating, please start

saying

.

And since it apparently was not clear to you, my remark about Hrezs' holdover vote on DemonHyrbid was to respond to your "point" that DemonHyrbid had a "small wagon" on him. I'm pretty clearly the one who is

actually

"reading into the situation."

Because rather than taking Hrezs'/CrashTextDummie's vote for DemonHybrid at face value (which it seems you were doing), I am instead well aware that since CrashTextDummie's reads

do not even take Day Two into account

(in other words, the last

sixteen pages

), I am not really comfortable in saying that where Hrezs happened to leave his vote is going to be the same person CrashTextDummie would choose to vote after he finishes catching up. Acting like a single vote from a player

who was replaced

constitutes a "small wagon" seems like a pretty blatant manipulation of reality.

Why are even pressing this point? I'm pretty clearly in the right. Do you

seriously

consider Hrezs' leftover vote to be a "small wagon," thereby making voting for DemonHyrbid more productive than voting for Yosarian2?