NY136: The Death of ReaperCharlie (GAME OVER, Town win!)

[Amrun]

VC3.1

(0) DemonHybrid
(0) Pine
(0) mastin2
(0) Iecerint
(3) Killerjester - mastin2, Hydra, CrashTextDummie
(0) CrashTextDummie
(0) MrBuddyLee
(0) Yosarian2
(3) Shanba - killerjester, ToastyToast, DemonHybrid
(0) Hydra
(0) ToastyToast

Not Voting: Pine, Iecerint, MrBuddyLee, Yosarian2, Shanba

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline: Wednesday, August 2, 11:30am EST

Spoiler: Vote History

DemonHybrid - Shanba > killerjester > Shanba
Pine
mastin2 - killerjester
Iecerint
Killerjester - Shanba
CrashTextDummie - killerjester
MrBuddyLee
Yosarian2
Shanba
Hydra - killerjester
ToastyToast - Shanba

If there are any mistakes, please let me know.

Pine and Shanba have been prodded.

[killerjester]

No, I was trying to get my SK read (you) to stick to one target so that if you're dodgy about it later, y'know cos the target won't actually flip SK, we'd call you out on it easy.

But you're being dodgy now, soo....you should know that as town-CTD you stand to lose nothing from this little bet of mine. Now are you going to straighten up like a good little soldier?

[DemonHybrid]

Because I haven't read back yet to determine how the Bowser flip influences my reads on them. I think any wagon that isn't KJ right now is foolish since he basically claimed scum.

You don't have to read back. Just read my post.

Also, the fact that he even connected you to SK is the big point, really. Your play fits the bill (and especially Hresz's play; it's disconnected, jabbing, lurky and reactional).

[Shanba]

DH posted the definitive case against Shanba.

As far as I can tell he just quoted my posts and said "mmk" a lot. How is that the definitive case?

Furthermore, Iecerint might even be a good candidate for an SK. A vig claim and short one-sentence posts for the majority of his latest posts (though a strong beginning onslaught of information)

Pretty unlikely - if so, why hasn't the real vig offed him (we had three deaths night 1 remember so there's likely an sk and a vig).

Demonhybrid was all "SHANBA YOU ARE WHITE KNIGHTING THE TERRIBAD PARAMA LYNCH" yesterday. Honestly, if there wasn't an already dead scum neighbour, I'd be voting him. I dont think two mafia neighbours is that likely, and all the scumtells I'm seeing from him are associative with bowser, so whatever. His attitude today is totally not-sk - zero need to go balls to the wall all out attack on me as an sk.

Gonna have to disagree on you guys there.

Chaining lynches? Maybe you can make a case there, but given his opinion (there is only one anti-town in neighborhood), it makes sense. Not saying this is something town would say, just acknowledging that there are better suspects. We're probably going to get little info. out of Shanba, so i'm leaning that wagon right now.

Vote:Shanba

^ Among the worst justifications for a vote I've ever seen. He's also not mafia, though, because of parama/demonhybrid's ultra push on him at the start of day 1. I dont think that would happen if parama was a scumbuddy of kondi - and especially not the eventual post parama made where he cleared kondi. Seems like a really bad gambit, if it was a gambit, so I'm crossing that off. Kondi townslipping - demonhybrid, can you confirm that the post that kondi made in the quicktopic was indeed as parama said made in the belief that all three neighbours were confirmed town?

If bowser hadnt flipped as a neighbour I'd be strongly considering lynching the entire neighbourhood at some point

MBL, now would be a good time to do that whole "THESE ARE ALL MY READS" thing you did in oldy mafia. I wish PJ was still alive. I need to know if MBL busses. I think he does? Not sure. Actually, rereading his iso, he's pretty much town.

Currently working something of a process of elimination - the neighbours, iecerint, mbl, ctd, mastin are the people I've eliminated (some for obvious reasons, others you can ask me for reasons if you really care but tbh it's not important). Looking at the others:
Pine/earworm/ythan - super fucking scummy. Ythan spends most of day 1 caught up on the hydra dumbwagon and does no scumhunting before being replaced by earworm.

Parama is on my scummy list. (lurky lurk + DH's story of why they decided to out the neighborhood reads like Parama is scum trying to get townpoints when faced with a bad situation. ("Oh shit, if I say let's not out the neighborhood he'll think I'm scum" tell. And yes I realize this is WIFOM. That's why he's on the watch list.)

Next post mentioning Parama:

unvote, vote: Parama

asking people a bunch of questions is not the same as scum-hunting.

@Meransiel

: Can you please clarify your current stances on Parama and DH?

@Parama

: What do you think of Meransiel?

*Looks at your last vote.*
*Looks for Sensfan posts between this post and your last vote.*
*Looks for Parama posts between this post and your last vote.*
*sigh*

But, godammit you are town aren't you? :/
Could you at least

attempt

to explain your votes, if only for my sanity?

Also worth noting the context - MBL was the only person attacking parama at that time. Defending him there isn't risky. Earworm and pine haven't really posted anything yet. I think these dudes are scummy. He also repeatedly mentions a nullread on hydra.

The way hydra goes about his push on meransiel looks pretty town to me. Was hoping hydra would be obv scum so I could go "EZPZ PINE+HYDRA GOGOGO" In fact, hydra looks pretty townish.

Yos could well be scum though I wish he wasn't. I still dont like the thing I called him out on w/r/t pj, and honestly I have to agree his town rad on me seems a little out of place. How is calling oneself out for lurking townish? Surely that's just an easy way to active lurk?

The stuff I said about saporo in one of my earlier posts still applies. CTD's scumtell about the sk is pretty valid too. I could go for a killerjester lynch, though I think I'd prefer Pine.

Vote: Pine

[ToastyToast]

Among the worst justifications for a vote I've ever seen. He's also not mafia, though, because of parama/demonhybrid's ultra push on him at the start of day 1.

No. Ur being voted because of your ambivalent stance on Parama. your bad lurking/sudden upsurge of not lurking is sketch as well. Those were just the reasons why I picked you over yosarian

[DemonHybrid]

As far as I can tell he just quoted my posts and said "mmk" a lot. How is that the definitive case?

The fact that it's being called the definitive case even though I JUST pointed out your posts should say something

[DemonHybrid]

Kondi townslipping - demonhybrid, can you confirm that the post that kondi made in the quicktopic was indeed as parama said made in the belief that all three neighbours were confirmed town?

I posted this quite a while ago. Check my Day 1 ISO.

[MrBuddyLee]

I could go for a killerjester lynch

@Shabs

, can you please go into more detail on how you perceive killerjester?


Other than saporo, who looks like prototypical scum to me, I'm uncomfortable about how much of a black box Pine remains at this point. It's never good to have little or no clue about a player to start day three. We need a replacement. (Sorry, Amrun. )


Looking for possible partners with saporo, Yos's opinion of her is floaty:

SV seems town-ish to me right now. Stuff like where on day 1 she questioned DH about the Kondi thing, and when he answered, she unvoted him based on his answers feels honestly town to me.

saporovirus: Not really a fan of her day 1 play. I like that she defended me against PJ on day 2, heh. (Ok, it's hard for me to be unbiased about this, but that defensive posts feels town-ish to me).

Null: Hydra, MBL, saporovirus

@Yos

: What's the latest scoop on saporo? Also, can you please read off your top four scum with reasons?


CTD also slowplayed saporo:

I do have notes on saporovirus and earworm, but it's very minor stuff that doesn't seem worth posting.

saporovirus is playing a very low-key game. About 10 contest-posts over the entirety of D1, and short ones at that. There's nothing in his play I found terribly objectionable (including his hammer), but his volume is borderline. No verdict.

grey glob of goo:
saporovirus

but now seems willing to come aboard with force as DH, MBL, Iece, mastin, toasty, and Hydra all came into D3 with KJ suspicions. Late to the game after a couple of mealy-mouthed posts about saporo D2.

More in a bit.. lunch is here.

[killerjester]

Currently working something of a process of elimination - the neighbours, iecerint, mbl, ctd, mastin are the people I've eliminated (some for obvious reasons, others you can ask me for reasons if you really care but tbh it's not important)

I don't agree with you on clearing CTD, so can you clarify that up a little bit? I don't like how you cleared him in your process of elimination and later said..

CTD's scumtell about the sk is pretty valid too.

You're looking mighty fine as a scum-lynch today. From your post alone, I'd say a scum flip on you all but clears everyone in your "process of elimination" as at least "not-scum", which would give us some very handy insight on where to look for your partners. The part I find most important out of is that I'd feel more confident in my theory of CTD being the SK (on your list, implying not-scum) and Yos2 being scum (not on your list, implying possible scum). Then, depending on how many scum there are in this game, I'd bet the remainder are in the Hydra/Pine bunch, as they also didn't make your process of elimination list.

Can we all get down and funky with a Shanba lynch? Call me crazy but I think I'm onto something here.

[killerjester]

EBWOP: Also was thinking this, but forgot to mention. Scum-Shanba is bussing Pine pretty hard, and I'd look to lynch him before Hydra, if not also before Yos2. And (luckily) we still have a vig to shoot up our masked SK.

[CrashTextDummie]

DH:

You don't have to read back. Just read my post.

No thanks, that's not how I play.

Also, the fact that he even connected you to SK is the big point, really. Your play fits the bill (and especially Hresz's play; it's disconnected, jabbing, lurky and reactional).

1. baseless accusation =/= good, valid point
You are using this as an argument not to lynch him... why exactly?
2. How does my play fit the bill of SK?

-------------------

Shanba:

I asked you this question yesterday:

@ Shanba - why did you express willingness to lynch my playerslot?

You have now apparently eliminated me from the pool of suspects. Please elaborate.

------------------

MBL:

Does this fit your definition of "mealy-mouthed"?

Saporovirus pinged big-time on my scumdar on D2. Every single vote-hop on his part felt opportunistic. Behavior towards Parama particularly so. Seemingly no interest in getting reads on people, even when prompted (the height of his willingness to take a stance on Shanba was "not unreasonable"). Borderline lurking. This is pretty much textbook lazy-scum behavior.

If you're gonna dump a bunch of quotes on me, at least be thorough.

------------------

And (luckily) we still have a vig to shoot up our masked SK.

It goes without saying that this is a horribly scummy thing to say and that killerjester needs to die. With a vig in the mix, there is a significant chance that the SK has NK-immunity. Not to mention the blatant attempt to direct Iecerint away from targeting mafia suspects.

Everyone currently not voting killerjester needs to either rectify this or justify themselves in their next post. Killerjester has displayed a complete lack of pro-town thinking today, argued with a hypothetical that includes him as scum and has now shown a clear pro-scum-agenda with his vig directions. Cases don't get any more damning than this short of guilty investigations.

[CrashTextDummie]

ToastyToast, please answer this question:

@ ToastyToast - what, if anything, does your role PM say about the alignment of your neighbors?

Reading up on Shanba and Yos now.

[ToastyToast]

just says that their allignments are unknown to me

[CrashTextDummie]

Either you are lying or your predecessor was.

Why are you not voting killerjester?

[killerjester]

No, I was trying to get my SK read (you) to stick to one target so that if you're dodgy about it later, y'know cos the target won't actually flip SK, we'd call you out on it easy.

But you're being dodgy now, soo....you should know that as town-CTD you stand to lose nothing from this little bet of mine. Now are you going to straighten up like a good little soldier?

CTD, you missed a question. Mind answering, or at least telling me why you're choosing to ignore it?

I am hunting the scum, in fact I've got a list of names lined right up. AND my vote is on my top scumspect. So you can throw your whole pro-scum-agenda out the window. I've taken it a step further because I know there's a serial killer around and time to kill while everyone gets their votes on Shanba. Even if he (the SK) NK-immune, all we need is Iecerint's word "I'm targeting so-and-so tonight, because I think I've found the SK," and if they're alive in the morning then we'd know that 1. The SK is NK-immune, and 2. The person the vig shot at is the SK. There's nothing

wrong

about suggesting the vig try to take out the SK. In fact... I'm really finding how much you condemn the idea, and consistently stress that the REAL threat in this town in the mafia comes more from the perspective of an SK trying to cover his own damn hide.

[CrashTextDummie]

Shanba fits as a Parama buddy. I don't consider the fact that he claimed a town-read on Parama a point against him, it resonates with my own read at the time, but his defense of Parama reached pretty far into making-excuses-for-him territory. His town-read on him was not convincing enough for me to really buy that he'd stick his neck this far out for him as a member of the uninformed majority.

Yos is not out of the question but is far less likely. His push against Parama does not give me bussing-vibes. It came very naturally and fit his thought process as he had laid it out, he held on to it unrelentingly and it came at a time when it didn't seem obvious that Parama would be the wagon du jour. I give no credence whatsoever to the "Bowser tried to bus Yos" line of thinking.

Parama made virtually no mention of either of these two player. This argues neither in favor nor against either scum-pair.

[CrashTextDummie]

Either you are lying or your predecessor was.

Why are you not voting killerjester?

Having mulled it over for a minute, I think there's no question that kondi was lying. I suppose an SK or even a second mafiate would get this same note, so each neighbor probably had it irregardless of alignment. I think DH also claimed something very similar (I don't have my notes with me).

Begs the question of why kondi was bullshitting. I'm gonna re-review the alleged townslip next.

[CrashTextDummie]

CTD, you missed a question. Mind answering, or at least telling me why you're choosing to ignore it?

I will humor you as a common courtesy.

I quite literally

do not care

who the SK is at this point. I am not going to draw a name from a hat for you.

Particularly

not for you.

[killerjester]

I need to level with you. You've nearly missed the point of all of my questions. I'm finding most of what you say has a few properties. You only have one target at a time, everything else is..for lack of a better word, simply frills. Yesterday it was DH, today it's me. Sure, you've mentioned Shanba and Yos (correct me if I'm wrong, but they still seem to be in that leaning-scum category of yours), but it feels more like a pseudo-scum-group with room to lean-null category.

Next, once you have your day target you completely disregard any other thoughts. I'm coining this term as the CTD UberTunnel™

You are proposing a hypothetical in which you're scum. Good show.

I don't really care who the SK is at this point.

DIE, SCUM, DIE.

Not only are you flat out stating you don't care about finding the SK, you're ignoring the entire point of my hypothetical to begin with. You don't care what other people have to say, and the only words you'll listen to are those detailing why they aren't voting for you target. Even if you ARE so convinced I'm scum, you aren't helping the town any by tunneling THIS hard. Your mind isn't a two-way street. We can't see into your head, so you generally have to explain your thoughts and reason with us.

I'm fairly convinced you aren't group scum, at least. I'm just waiting on a Shanba flip to clear that up. So if you're town, can you just please explain yourself a little more clearly (ie: when KJ says this part here, I take away these thoughts -insert thoughts-)? And if you're SK, umm... give up? lol.

[Amrun]

I forgot to put it in the VC, but Yosarian is V/LA for 3 more days.

Pine still has some more time on his prod, but according to the rules he can be replaced. I will begin seeking one now - but I have a bad feeling I'm going to have to cross replace into another of Pine's slots in a 50 page game in order to fill this slot. I don't have the time to do that. So please, if you know someone who might be interested, sweet talk them.

Pine can only keep his spot if he posts CONTENT before I find a replacement for him.

[mastin2]

Out of curiousity, which game is the 50-page game?

[Amrun]

JasonT(numbers) Large Theme TV mafia. He's a good mod, but that's a tough level of commitment for me right this second. It is a fair cross-replace, though, for this 44 page Large Normal.

[Hydra]

We still think the jesterman is the way to go. We prefer this lynch over Shanba slightly, the fact that Shanba didn't re-vote killer to put him closer to lynch over himself with wagons tied definently makes us want to stay on jester.

Also,

But I'll humor you. Who do you think the serial killer is if I flip group scum/town?

Is showing an anti-town mindset. For one thing, its a useless hypothetical question (if you flip scum, I'm not going to be slamming my head into a wall that you weren't the serial killer), and if you are town, you should be stating you are town and the XXX is serial killer in your estimation, rather than what you did. Post like this, (though not all of your posts are) definently seem to come from someone anti-town aligned.

[killerjester]

I explained the basis behind my question. I have already stated that I'm town, and who the SK is in my opinion. I wouldn't be surprised if I simply worded the question poorly, as players in [REDACTED] have also been pretty unnerved by my hypotheticals, and I think it almost got me lynched there. I just don't think I get anywhere by repeating myself, especially when I'm still not getting solid answers from CTD.

And can you explain a bit better what Shanba abstaining from my wagon implicates? I didn't quite put two and two together myself.

[ToastyToast]

Er, the CTD-jester argument is going over my head atm. Yosarian and Shanba still make more sense in context of parama/bowser.