Mini 1199 - Plissken's Pit [GAME OVER]

[SomeRandomGuy]

I was just wondering, I had no idea about empking either, he seemed pretty invisible for me. I've had a look through Empkings posts and to say there was little there would almost be an understatement. All i can see there is that he's suspected FS at times, without putting too much of an arguement in, he's suspected me and had a vote on Jam at one point.

[Internet Stranger]

I'm ok with going after one of the coasters right now. Which one has been hanging back, minimally posting and sniping comments whenever their name gets mentioned or when someone is on the ropes?

Is that swiftstrike? Lamora or Sky?

[Sky]

Well I was totally wrong about Empking. I can see why they didn't kill SRG, it isn't like he's confirmed town or anything. I like to think he is but I'm not going to dismiss him. yabbaguy is like the most pro-town player here, I was expecting him dead. But I have a gut read that says otherwise. Unfortunately, the case would be very hard to present. IS of late is seemingly town, or at least seems to carry good intentions. I don't know what to think of Peregrine and Swiftstrike. From what I've heard of Locke, he seems town but he really needs to be here more. And then Rikana.... I know I have some pretty backward logic here, but here me out. He has been off the two wagons that lynched our fellow citizens malp and JAM. Naturally, this is town behavior since he wasn't in on getting town killed. But he never really gives clear reasons for why they weren't scum, he says malp is an easy mislynch and I don't even know what he said about JAM, if he said anything at all, but he didn't go for it, he was conveniently fighting with Peregrine. It seems to me that Rikana has been avoiding the town lynching wagons in order to appear like she isn't scum.

Since I'm new at concealed setups, and we don not know the number of scum, does the mod let us know when it's MyLo or LyLo?

[Sky]

Oh I forgot Shadow. It's the same thing as Locke, if he came more I'd have a better idea. I think Locke is more town than Shadow, his vote on SRG seemed more genuine. It's a hazy area for him.

[yabbaguy]

The activity is awful again!

@Mod

: Massprod everyone who hasn't posted yet and I request a massprod at the start of each subsequent Day.

[SomeRandomGuy]

The activity is awful again!

@Mod

: Massprod everyone who hasn't posted yet and I request a massprod at the start of each subsequent Day.

Can only agree with this.

@Sky
You mention Rikana having votes on neither of the flips, how do you feel about the fact some people have been on both? I'm only asking since the lack of lynch votes from rikana has caught your attention, it would be interesting to see what you feel of the polar opposite.

[Rikana]

Vote: InternetStranger

This may be a tunnel. But he's fucking scum.

[Sky]

@Sky
You mention Rikana having votes on neither of the flips, how do you feel about the fact some people have been on both? I'm only asking since the lack of lynch votes from rikana has caught your attention, it would be interesting to see what you feel of the polar opposite.

Well in the traditional sense of thinking, scum would be on the wagon to kill town. I know it doesn't help that I've been on the wrong vote twice. But Rikana has dodged both, and I guess the odds just seem unlikely. He could just be a skilled player though. Too bad he's an alt.

[PeregrineV]

The thread is up for a re-read, to see if I can find something less obvious.

Would also like to hear from Locke & FightingShadow today, but understand since my weekend just ended too....

[Locke Lamora]

Sorry all, had very little time. I'm going to point out the worst post in relation to the JAM lynch and break it down:

The one thing that I don't like about this mislynch is the fact SRG didn't know he wasn't headed toward the gallows. I mean, I think if I were actively playing I'd know just how far away I was to getting killed. But then again, he isn't that active, and he's really been contributing now. Plus I love his use of "hella" which for those who don't know, means he's a Nor Calian, and we gotta stick together.

Of the people on the hammer, I find Locke townish. Just a feel. yabba is extremely town, but somehow too much so. Gut read would say scum but I have nothing much to go off on other than intuition. Emp, I find scum. IS hard to say. Not town. Neutral. And lastly JAM... well here goes.

The hammer is obviously scummy. And obvious enough for scum to actually do it since this a crucial point in the game. Meaning, JAM is the sacrificial kinda scum that would be worth it since if SRG went through, scum would have an upper hand. Guessing at the amount of scum there are of course. So it is scummy, no matter how obvious it looks. I've found JAM to be hazy this game, definitely not town. So JAM looks a lot better than the SRG lynch so there you have it.

Unvote, Vote: JAMFTW

So here are the scummy things about this post:

1. He goes out of his way to provide some crappy reasons why SRG still shouldn't be the lynch. Up to this point he's basically said nothing about SRG other than that he hasn't really got a read on him. Now he apparently feels the need to justify the switch to JAM based on SRG's towniness as well as JAM's scumminess. And just what does he mean by 'mislynch' here anyway?

2. His reasons for his reads on the other players. Oh yeah. There aren't any. He goes through Yabba, Emp, IS and myself without giving a single reason for the reads other than 'gut'.

3. The terrible over-justification of why the hammer is scummy in the third paragraph. It almost reads as though he's trying to convince himself it's true. 'Guessing at the amount of scum there are of course' is such an unnecessary inclusion for anyone who's not paranoid about looking like they actually know how many scum there are, and he seems to be self-aware of how much he's over-simplifying the situation when he says 'So it is scummy, no matter how obvious it looks'. He might as well just have written 'I'm going to go for the easy mislynch to avoid doing any proper analysis'. It would have saved a lot of words.

4. The way he tries to make it sound like he'd have been happy to lynch JAM for some time. Know how many times he's indicated any doubts over JAM's slot up to this point? I can quote them. It won't take long.

I do find it suspicious that JAM keeps calling out IS yet makes no move to vote for him.

Yep, that's it. So I can see how he might be able to justify 'hazy', given Sky's lack of strong read, but 'definitely not town' is a stretch, and unquestioningly treating him as the obvious lynch is nonsensical.

All in all, it's forced, over-justified and reeks of struggling to fabricate reads on players.

Vote: Sky

Discuss.

[Internet Stranger]

Finally, exactly what I wanted to hear. Good job looking through and making a case Locke. Even if you flip scum, I will commend you for creating a turning point in this game.

Vote: Sky

[Rikana]

If Sky is scum, JAMFTW is likely a partner.

[Swiftstrike]

I need to get a re-read done, as I was obvious badly reading Jam so going to try get that completed tomorrow as I have made a start today.

but quick question for the meantime.

I think that's a scum error - that simplified the game for me.

So now...

›

yabbaguy - hello!

›

Internet Stranger - As much as I went to fencesit, I just know that he's Town. Why would he start, arguably, the first major squabble of the game when nothing was going on if he was scum? Also, inkling that he's telling the truth and that he wouldn't have let Empking be the kill.

›

SomeRandomGuy - Why isn't he dead? But I'd like to believe that he genuinely thought he was lynched, that was super convincing that he just stayed online well into midnight for him and blathered on.

›

PeregrineV - obviously Town-tunneling. Classic symptoms.

›

FightingShadow

- enter the WIFOM - this was Emp's favorite person to wagon on. But I think when he makes attacks on other players, it's really more to just attack and point out what they're doing wrong, but I don't see him really hunting.

›

Rikana - obviously Town-tunneling. Classic symptoms.

›

Swiftstrike

- Feels off somehow. Maybe it's just that his scumhunting aggression is sub-par.

›

Locke Lamora

- gigantic question mark.

›

Sky

- gigantic question mark.

No vote yet.

Why no vote yet yabbaguy? If you have it narrowed down to an group of 4 players to hold the scum in then why not vote now. Let's say you voted for me and got the mislynch then if scum are certain in the rest of the group of 4 then you still can just lynch off the rest of the players in the remaining days, (under the assumption it is 3 scum game). So I can't understand that if your town with a good certainty as to where the scum is what is the hesitation?

[yabbaguy]

Remember that my previous list had shades of red - but here I'm showing uncertainty. If you show scum, on the other hand, you've just indicated a big impatience for me to just get on with advocating for the lynch of all four of those people.

Mind you, that orange block includes yourself, but if I'm right and you show scum, it's a massive indicator that I've just tightened my dragnet too much. (i.e. I cleared too many - a black name should really go orange)

There is some information to be gleaned from this lynch unless Swift can adequately explain why he was in such a hurry to press me on that issue.

Vote: Swiftstrike

I do, however, wish to

FoS: Sky

. Even if LoLa is scum-bussing here with that, he makes some pretty darn good points - my favorites being the "mislynch" potential slip and the flagging of Sky's constant seesaw on JAM.

However, I don't think LoLa had a stance on JAM at all though - so I don't know what to make of that. I guess implicit indifference is less scummy? Maybe? /:|

[Sky]

Corresponding to Locke's case against me:

1. True. I hadn't been paying much attention to the SRG wagon. It didn't interest me, its ideas were flawed.
2. You want reasons for those players? Well for you, I think you're leaning town because you are original. You joined the SRG wagon, sure, but I believe you had different reasons than just quickly hopping onto it as scum. You also have pulled me up-- despite it being me--and that's original too. IS I have come to realize is more leaning town. I wasn't sure yesterday, but towards the end he did have the balls to hammer and it seems that his actions have got the town in mind. He also suspected JAM earlier. yabbaguy is town, despite my gut but I know that doesn't mean shit. He constantly contributes fresh thought, much like you, only does it more often, which is even better. I explained my logic for Emp being scum and it was off. I felt he was just actively lurking and coasting through this entire game. I was wrong.
3. I'm a stream of conscious guy. It's the way I write. I can tell you're into the whole brevity thing man, that's cool. I know I got pretty short towards the end of yesterday but that's because I was dead set on JAM being scum for hammer. Furthermore, (and I know this is just the way my brain is, its a poor excuse, you can believe it or not) I suck at math and yabbaguy explained it hell of a lot better than I did. You know, with those numbers and what not. Damn yabbaguy, you are a math wizard!
4. I don't know where I implied that. I do not agree.

Rikana, may you please explain that quote and its relevance right now?

[Swiftstrike]

Remember that my previous list had shades of red - but here I'm showing uncertainty. If you show scum, on the other hand, you've just indicated a big impatience for me to just get on with advocating for the lynch of all four of those people.

Mind you, that orange block includes yourself, but if I'm right and you show scum, it's a massive indicator that

I've just tightened my dragnet too much. (i.e. I cleared too many - a black name should really go orange)

There is some information to be gleaned from this lynch unless Swift can adequately explain why he was in such a hurry to press me on that issue.

Vote: Swiftstrike

I do, however, wish to

FoS: Sky

. Even if LoLa is scum-bussing here with that, he makes some pretty darn good points - my favorites being the "mislynch" potential slip and the flagging of Sky's constant seesaw on JAM.

However, I don't think LoLa had a stance on JAM at all though - so I don't know what to make of that. I guess implicit indifference is less scummy? Maybe? /:|

But that is my point, your net seems extremely to tight and strangely only included lower posters if we are to believe scum come from the orange group you highlighted, then it means that town have been driving wagons that have lead to the lynch of town. Now that is possible but if you look at the people who got lynched and killed it seems weird that most of them have been lower posters too. (with the exception of bristep). This just seems not right so I wanted to see why you where narrowing down a list so far but holding back on the push.

[yabbaguy]

Why no vote yet yabbaguy

? If you have it narrowed down to an group of 4 players to hold the scum in then

why not vote now

. Let's say you voted for me and got the mislynch then if scum are certain in the rest of the group of 4 then you still can just lynch off the rest of the players in the remaining days, (under the assumption it is 3 scum game). So I can't understand that if your town with a good certainty as to where the scum is

what is the hesitation

?

But that is my point,

your net seems extremely to tight

and strangely only included lower posters if we are to believe scum come from the orange group you highlighted, then it means that town have been driving wagons that have lead to the lynch of town. Now that is possible but if you look at the people who got lynched and killed it seems weird that most of them have been lower posters too. (with the exception of bristep). This just seems not right so I wanted to see why you where

narrowing down a list so far but holding back on the push

.

You've now completely changed the intent of that question. You asked me in that last post that I had four names in the orange that could've all been lynched, and had I contained the scumteam, it would've been all over. You were not at any point asking me whether I was tightening my dragnet too much. You asked me in the first post "you're confident enough - why not have a go?" and in the second "you're too confident - doesn't that seem unlikely?"

You are lying to me right now.

You are lying very poorly to me right now, and you've just outed yourself as obvious scum.

[yabbaguy]

^This is a super-super scummy lie that I've just outlined. Please read those posts carefully, and if you can tell that there's a blindingly obvious difference between "why are you holding back" and "don't you think you have it wrong", you really should be voting him now.

[yabbaguy]

And to selfishly triple post...

narrowing down a list so far but holding back on the push.

This belongs in the already-scummy first post, even. Now I know why that phrase gives me a headache, he reversed back as he went.

[Locke Lamora]

Corresponding to Locke's case against me:

1. True. I hadn't been paying much attention to the SRG wagon. It didn't interest me, its ideas were flawed.
2. You want reasons for those players? Well for you, I think you're leaning town because you are original. You joined the SRG wagon, sure, but I believe you had different reasons than just quickly hopping onto it as scum. You also have pulled me up-- despite it being me--and that's original too. IS I have come to realize is more leaning town. I wasn't sure yesterday, but towards the end he did have the balls to hammer and it seems that his actions have got the town in mind. He also suspected JAM earlier. yabbaguy is town, despite my gut but I know that doesn't mean shit. He constantly contributes fresh thought, much like you, only does it more often, which is even better. I explained my logic for Emp being scum and it was off. I felt he was just actively lurking and coasting through this entire game. I was wrong.
3. I'm a stream of conscious guy. It's the way I write. I can tell you're into the whole brevity thing man, that's cool. I know I got pretty short towards the end of yesterday but that's because I was dead set on JAM being scum for hammer. Furthermore, (and I know this is just the way my brain is, its a poor excuse, you can believe it or not) I suck at math and yabbaguy explained it hell of a lot better than I did. You know, with those numbers and what not. Damn yabbaguy, you are a math wizard!
4. I don't know where I implied that. I do not agree.

Rikana, may you please explain that quote and its relevance right now?

1. What you actually said prior to making that statement on SRG was:

I'm trying to make sense of this slot thing, and I need to review SRG because I haven't spent much time there. One more question for Rikana, why were you so intent on carrying out the "legacy" of Bristep after you found him suspicious yesterday?

So you obviously didn't even know what the reasons for the SRG wagon were. How could you find them flawed?

2. No, I don't want reasons for the players based on what you've seen since. In that post you stated 4 reads and no reasons. You said your town read on me was 'just a feel', so if you actually thought I was town based on originality, why not say that? Your IS and Yabba reads have changed since that post anyway, so providing reasoning for them now is irrelevant, and Emp's the only one who you actually had anything solid on at all. I think in both this response and the previous one, you're making up reasons that were simply not true at the time you made that post.

3. I understand what you're saying in that paragraph. It's got nothing to do with brevity (and I'm really not that brief a poster relative to the likes of IS and Emp). The point is, it reads like you're talking yourself into why scum would have hammered (or attempted to hammer) in that situation, and pre-emptively finding reasons to dismiss arguments that say 'wait a minute, wouldn't it be pretty stupid for JAM-scum to hammer there?'. My sense is you're aware it's an easy vote based on a careless piece of play, and you're trying too hard to justify it as scum play.

4. You framed the post in such a way that it was SRG vs JAM, and JAM was suddenly an obvious lynch despite the fact you'd indicated no real desire to lynch him prior to that. I think that was unrepresentative, both of the state of the game at the time and of your personal stated suspicions. If it was 24 hours to deadline and they were both at L-2, for example, that post would have made sense. You prematurely indicated that you almost had no choice but to vote for JAM, and that your reads on the two players were far more confident than you'd previously stated.

[Swiftstrike]

@yabba I did not change the intent of the question, I revealed exactly what I was looking to get an answer from you from that question.

I can see at least 2 town in the group you raised as orange, one being myself and given I am trying to re-evaluate my reads and going back through the game I wanted to see why you had a list so narrowly defined, which you have tried to back away from quickly now in your response to me. So let's look at that shall we.

Remember that my previous list had shades of red - but here I'm showing uncertainty.

Oh yes I can see the subtle shades of grey that your going for by using ONLY TWO COLOURS. Or the language of the post in the town cleared part of your list.

›

yabbaguy - hello!

›

Internet Stranger - As much as I went to fencesit,

I just know that he's Town.

Why would he start, arguably, the first major squabble of the game when nothing was going on if he was scum? Also, inkling that he's telling the truth and that he wouldn't have let Empking be the kill.

›

SomeRandomGuy - Why isn't he dead? But I'd like to believe that he genuinely thought he was lynched, that was super convincing that he just stayed online well into midnight for him and blathered on.

›

PeregrineV -

obviously Town-tunneling.

Classic symptoms.

›

Rikana -

obviously Town-tunneling.

Classic symptoms.
No vote yet.

So I can see 2 town in the orange group and your pushing as scum coming from that group, I got to wonder if your scum driving the game.

Also how about responding to my last point rather than trying to sideline it.

only included lower posters if we are to believe scum come from the orange group you highlighted, then it means that town have been driving wagons that have lead to the lynch of town. Now that is possible but if you look at the people who got lynched and killed it seems weird that most of them have been lower posters too. (with the exception of bristep). This just seems not right so I wanted to see why you where narrowing down a list so far but holding back on the push

[yabbaguy]

@yabba I did not change the intent of the question, I revealed exactly what I was looking to get an answer from you from that question.

You revealed a lie! There was absolutely NOTHING in that post that suggested that was the intent - you clearly wanted me to be more AGGRESSIVE with my list, not RECONSIDERING it!

You get no reply to any of your blathering that I'm scum until this gets cleared up. You told a scummy lie, and you got caught.

[yabbaguy]

When you ask me "why no vote" and "why the hesitation", how does that lead to its polar opposite of "good thing you're hesitating - I think your list is wrong?"

[SnakePlissken]

Day 3 - Vote Count I

1. SomeRandomGuy

2. Internet Stranger L-4 (Rikana)

3. yabbaguy
4. PeregrineV
5.FightingShadow
6. Rikana

8. Swiftstrike L-4 (yabbaguy)

10. Locke Lamora

13. Sky L-3 (Locke Lamora, Internet Stranger)

Not Voting

SomeRandomGuy, PeregrineV, FightingShadow, Swiftstrike

Day 3 ends 10am GMT+1 Sunday 14th August.

With 9 Alive it takes 5 to lynch

.

NB Everyone else other than FightingShadow have posted so only FS will receive a prod. However I will send mass prods 48hrs before deadline and day starts from herein.

[Swiftstrike]

@yabba I did not change the intent of the question, I revealed exactly what I was looking to get an answer from you from that question.

You revealed a lie! There was absolutely NOTHING in that post that suggested that was the intent - you clearly wanted me to be more AGGRESSIVE with my list, not RECONSIDERING it!

You get no reply to any of your blathering that I'm scum until this gets cleared up. You told a scummy lie, and you got caught.

I revealed no lie, but instead you post more lies yourself as you find yourself unable to answer the first one put to you.

trying to make it look like I was trying to rush the game when I haven't even laid a vote this phase yet and this isn't the first time your trying to paint me as rushing this day phase

on the other hand, you've just indicated a big impatience for me to just get on with advocating for the lynch of all four of those people.
--
There is some information to be gleaned from this lynch unless Swift can adequately explain why he was in such a hurry to press me on that issue.

you got yourself caught in the uncertainty lie and now can't find your way to explain it so your choosing to just ignore it.

VOTE yabbaguy