Mini 1199 - Plissken's Pit [GAME OVER]

Internet Stranger · Post Post #550 (ISO) » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:47 am

Hey Swift, its quite possible that Yabba is sucking up to me by calling me town in an effort to get me off his trail. Scum try to win favor with me like that all the damn time.

yabbaguy · Post Post #551 (ISO) » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:49 am

I made a list with uncertainty. I made an error in not saying that the orange corresponded to the "I'm not sure - but they're probably scum" side of it. As to the "charge" of me saying that I was declaring obvTown, why should I rush it? I lost a Newbie game because I said "I've called one SUPER-DUPER-OBVIOUS Town, I'll just blast the other two and the other scum will drop". Oops, the towniest one was the scum. Realizing that I'm scumhunting worse than a random monkey all over again, I won't scream as loudly as I did last Day. (It's the newbie game with Paws and foilist, I forget which #, check the yGDB if you'd like - but I can link the incident when I get home) That's why even though I say "oh yeah, of course he's Town, I still don't follow it". This is why I decided not to vote. And besides that, a vote also is a game mechanic that declares interest in ending the Day, and I didn't want the Day to end seeing as I really wasn't sure. It's actually mental uncertainty, it's like "I just know he's Town, I just have that feeling". Peregrine and Rikana I still believe to be obvTown, IS and SRG are the ones I expressed doubts about.

Internet Stranger - As much as I went to fencesit, I just know that he's Town. Why would he start, arguably, the first major squabble of the game when nothing was going on if he was scum? Also, inkling that he's telling the truth and that he wouldn't have let Empking be the kill.

I mean, this is me wanting to be unsure, and then I decide to commit to a stance just thinking that's true. But I want to see what others think. There is NO CRIME for wanting to seek a second opinion. If anything, I'm being charged for wanting to be the leading opinion.

Secondly is that I did this thinking that it would make myself LESS intrusive to the game. I mean, this was me having screamed at the top of my lungs for a JAM lynch and having it fail. Therefore, what I wanted to do was

non-intrusively

state what I felt and then start the debate from there. Where was I taking the lead? I was taking a more passive role, this ISN'T me ringleading until Swift lies to my face, so to speak. What is so wrong with a Day where everyone just talks before they vote, presuming everyone actually gets involved (nope)? I take firm stances, but I expect Town to disagree with me.

Then Swift lies and I immediately discard the strategy of being passive. Yup.

Again, am I too aggressive or am I too passive? On one hand, you're saying I'm squawking too much and saying "hey guys, let's mislynch this guy wheeeeee" or am I being too passive and should be taking more decisive action with my vote?

What makes this list say "YOU GUYS SHOULD DO THIS TOO"? It's not my fault that you guys are abysmal at being more outright with your opinions. There is NOTHING wrong with just stating a player-by-player and allowing the dialogue to go towards "what do you think?" more than "DO THIS DO THIS". I did not do any direct action, hence it's "what do you think?". I was being open, I was trying to contribute to a Town game. What is the proper Town thing to do in this stance,

was I supposed to vote? Then I'm accused of ringleading the Town and it becomes "nice try yabb, trying to mislynch Townies again?" What is the proper Town play there?

This is an impossible case. The proper Town play was to sit back, state a few stances, and see where the conversation went. I adamantly assert that it is Town motivated. What is scummy? What would yabb-Town have done differently?

yabbaguy · Post Post #552 (ISO) » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:55 am

Unvote

since everyone's telling me to try again.

But Swift, I still don't have the answer as to what the first post is intended to convey though. Okay, you asked why I'm not voting. That

conveys

then the opinion that you wanted me to vote, yes?

Swiftstrike · Post Post #553 (ISO) » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:57 am

PeregrineV wrote:
@Swift- I read your case with links (thank you), but Swift day1 has no Yabba mention, but does have a town JAM case. Can you convincingly connect Yabba to anything or anyone else, and why was he ignored by you day1?

Correct I didn't mention him day 1 I wasn't suspicious of him day 1, it's only after JAM flipped town that I realised I was completely in the wrong and started to re-read. In looking back over the game and also in yabba response to my question raised some issues I have pointed them out, he refuses to discuss them, it isn't town play.

Can I convincingly connect yabba to anything or anyone else. It depends on how you look at it, I have no hard and fast evidence, no, but you say you have looked at the links I provided, I think there is fairly good evidence there to indicate a link between yabba and SKY.

--

Internet Stranger wrote:Hey Swift, its quite possible that Yabba is sucking up to me by calling me town in an effort to get me off his trail. Scum try to win favor with me like that all the damn time.

It is possible, I am not discounting it, but it is likely than one of yabba town list is scum who he was looking to set up as confirmed town to get a game win after possibly bussing Sky if needed or just applying pressure on the other orange players to gain the mislynches that way.

Swiftstrike · Post Post #554 (ISO) » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:01 am

yabbaguy wrote:
Unvote
since everyone's telling me to try again.

But Swift, I still don't have the answer as to what the first post is intended to convey though. Okay, you asked why I'm not voting. That
conveys
then the opinion that you wanted me to vote, yes?

I have explained it, where as you still haven't responded to my questions how about you look at coming back to the points I raised.

yabbaguy · Post Post #555 (ISO) » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:10 am

"uncertainty lie/you're contradicting yourself" - I explained that already. Peregrine and Rikana are super-Town, IS and SRG are of lesser certainty (yes, with IS I was trying to assure myself there), then I have my renowned orange block.
"I see Town in that block of orange" - k.
"your list only includes lower posters" - It's a game with an activity crisis involved. But even there, you weren't even that inactive, more unsubstantive until you suddenly lit up and exploded. SRG is still being a useless blob, but at least I thought he was Towntelling by trying to give analyses upon his "death". That's that.

SomeRandomGuy · Post Post #556 (ISO) » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:13 am

yabba wrote:
SRG is still being a useless blob

As explained, it's been a busy few days and the day phase hasn't been with us long, don't you worry, i'll be posting more and well as soon as i've had more than a few hours sleep and getting involved more again, i don't intend to slip back into the realms of uselessness for long.

Locke Lamora · Post Post #557 (ISO) » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:27 am

Sky wrote:1. Point taken, you got me there. I just thought it was about him not having access to internet and doing other stuff in this game, so I didn't look to deep into it. I know it doesn't look to good for me to say this. But I never did actually vote him, so I think it's not that bad. But, I realize it's a shitty defense.
2. I didn't say it at first because I wasn't sure myself. I thought your post on SRG was more original, but you had, and still have, hardly posted in this game. I can say it more so now since you've got a good case, even though it's wrong. But if you believe what I said above, which you probably don't, I didn't want to say you were creative because I wasn't sure. It was a feeling based off a small post of imagination, since it was virtually your only post of yesterday.
3. What I had to do was convince myself that I was doing the right thing for the town, and sometimes the best way to do that is to write it out, so I can look back at just what I was thinking.
4. I was confused about the deadline because I'm stupid, but maybe that was after that post. Either way, yesterdays was going to be SRG or JAM. I do know that's how it was when I posted that. I went for JAM because I felt so sure of that false hammer. Would you rather have had me sit idly and not take a side while other players drift past the deadline, even you're among that list.

I'm going to look at this Swift yabba debate going on tomorrow, it's too much too wrap my head around right now.

So basically you're admitting that I'm more or less right about everything I've said, including the fact that two of your responses to my original case weren't genuine at all. As for it 'not being that bad' that you made up a reason for not being interested in the SRG case, yes, it is that bad. There's no other motivation for that other than trying to pad out your reasoning by claiming opinions you never had.

As for saying things you're not sure of, you just told me that you were actually writing that post out partly to convince yourself that you were doing the right thing, so that's just plain hypocritical. Your play indicates that you would have no problem saying 'I get a town feel from Locke because his post shows originality, but I'm not sure as the slot has contributed very little'. So I don't see the issue with saying that over what you claimed at the time was essentially a gut read, which requires no effort to justify and can easily be rescinded later.

Can I also ask why you were so sure of the false hammer? What was it that made you sure it was scum strategy and not clumsy town play?

Yabba: I see where you're coming from, but I think Swiftstrike basically just had a point that he wasn't articulating very well. Do you often see scum make a point and then immediately change the meaning of it? I think it was worded in a contradictory fashion, but I don't see anything about the way SS presented it that makes it more likely to be a scumtell.

Rikana · Post Post #558 (ISO) » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:58 pm

#525
1) That suggest there's at least 3 more scum that are ready to quickhammer at anytime. This would also suggest Day Chat.

nope.jpg

2) There's nothing scummy there. He's pressing you to go on your views.

3) huh

I'm actually incredibly suspicious of Yabba after that, unless I'm missing something.

yabbaguy · Post Post #559 (ISO) » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:19 pm

@Rikana:

A) please acknowledge "being wrong" is Town and "deliberately misguiding" is scummy. I thought my logic made perfect sense, so I claim I'm wrong. I may not even be wrong about Swift-scum for other reasons, but I'm reconsidering after everyone's saying "no yabb, you blew it" and Swift's sudden surge of confidence as he went on a raging caps crash course to prove me a liar.
B) have you read the thread yet? If not, esp. read 551, and especially especially the bit where I assert that I'm being stretched in multiple directions - one time I should really back my stance with a vote, the next that I'm saying "HEY TOWN, CHECK OUT THIS COOL (mis)LYNCH!"

Sky · Post Post #560 (ISO) » Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:05 am

I was sure of JAM because he came out of no where and false hammered. It was completely unjustified. I saw him as the suicidal scum that knew if he hammered SRG it'd be worth the sacrifice.

I'm asking that you ignore why I didn't vote SRG but focus on that fact I didn't. It's scummy as hell, I know but it's all I got.

You know, fuck it. I have no decent defense. I don't know why yabba hasn't voted me yet to put me at L-1, I know he wants to. Shadow is also going to drop down from the trees in like an ape suit and personally lynch me himself. He's at least posted sorry for being gone in the other game I'm in with him, I don't know where he is. I'm claiming dammit. I don't want to waste the town's precious time by arguing about me. Hopefully I can turn my scummy play away.

I'm the gun smith. I check people for guns, so I'm pretty much the fuzz. I checked smalls Night 1 and got no result, which until only recently I thought meant he was clear. But since he was jailed it doesn't do anything. Night 2 is IS and he's clear. I realize, my play was scummy and my personal read on Locke still stays, he's got a damn good case. I think I was trying too hard to lie low with my role, and now that I've been outed I have to sacrifice myself all too early. I'm sorry guys

Internet Stranger · Post Post #561 (ISO) » Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:09 am

unvote:sky
Vote:Yabbaguy

Sky · Post Post #562 (ISO) » Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:09 am

I also think Swift has the upper hand against yabba. Case is solid.

yabbaguy · Post Post #563 (ISO) » Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:25 am

So barring any sudden dramatics...

> SRG
> Peregrine
> Shadow
> Rikana
> Swift
> LoLa

...is my concrete suspect list. Now it's bracket two Town and sack the rest.

That is, if I've understood you correctly, Sky? N1 you got "No Result" and N2 you got something like "No Gun"?

Ninjaposts: Oh come on. Are you lot reading what I'm saying?

SomeRandomGuy · Post Post #564 (ISO) » Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:29 am

Wow, i was actually writting a response and was looking for something to quote from this page when i noticed this post. I think this changes things quite a lot.

I still don't buy yabba as scum though, he's one of my stronger town reads - call it gut from the conviction in his posts but he's got me convinced he's gunning at swift for the right reasons. The thing is the argument between swift and yabba seems to be in the same mindset that the pere vs rikana one was earlier in the game, mainly based off wording and such. I find swift to be null, leaning town but not a strong read, i was reading the yabba / swift argument as town on town and i'm not sure that has changed here.

@swift - You mentioned a sky / yabba team as scum, if we're to believe sky's claim (which i find myself doing) that obviously can't be true - does that change your opinion on yabba at all?

I didn't buy the sky / yabba scum team, i was quite suspicious of sky for the mentioning of rikana's not voting on the town lynches and not mentioning the other side of the coin until questioned, it seemed odd, i didn't like it. infact the post i was just writting up was going to include and FoS or Vote on Sky depending upon the vote count which i still haven't checked.

IS was quite quick to believe Sky there too, why is that IS? I know why i believe this claim to be true but why do you? You were very quick to unvote and switch to yabba there...

SomeRandomGuy · Post Post #565 (ISO) » Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:31 am

(i don't feel we should outright allow IS to be 'confirmed town' even if sky is being truthful - it's a gunsmith and not a cop for a reason) I know it brings the chances down, but it's not pro-town to eliminate him completely.

yabbaguy · Post Post #566 (ISO) » Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:37 am

Every Mafioso has a gun I'd imagine, I've never heard of a Gunless Mafia or whatever you'd call it, and it doesn't sound Normal.

Would a jailkeeper possess a gun?

SomeRandomGuy · Post Post #567 (ISO) » Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:42 am

yabbaguy wrote:Every Mafioso has a gun I'd imagine, I've never heard of a Gunless Mafia or whatever you'd call it, and it doesn't sound Normal.

Would a jailkeeper possess a gun?

Ah, i've just played some games off site where the godfather simply couldn't be investigated, i wasn't sure if that'd mean he didn't have a gun or not - having played more on the site i'd happily conclude that you guys will know better on that one and that's even assuming there's a godfather in the game at all. If that's the case that they'd all have guns, i'm happy to believe (as long as skys claim is or stays confirmable) that IS is not scum down to that - but damnit IS, you had me thinking you were very heavily in the previous day phase.

SomeRandomGuy · Post Post #568 (ISO) » Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:52 am

JAMFTW wrote:I don't think it's all that relevant who I jailed last night, but if you'd like to know, I tossed smallpeoples in.

I was just reading back to see whether sky posted after this - she didn't. It's a damn shame too because if Jam hadn't thought it was irrelevant and posted early enough for sky to have seen, Sky probably wouldn't have left her vote there, smallpeoples as IS pointed out after by hammering based on that claim of protection wasn't a likely protection so Sky would have pretty much KNOWN he was telling the truth.

PeregrineV · Post Post #569 (ISO) » Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:09 am

Taking Sky claim at face value for now.

Unvote.

Gunsmith on this site.

Rikana · Post Post #570 (ISO) » Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:15 pm

No one has given me good enough reasoning to unvote IS.

Internet Stranger · Post Post #571 (ISO) » Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:20 pm

What the fuck? Are you daft? A claimed Gunsmith just fucking cleared me so you either vote Sky for being a filthy liar or vote someone else that isnt me (I suggest Yabba)

Rikana · Post Post #572 (ISO) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:31 am

Unvote

Fuck.

How the fuck is he town.

This shitty game.

Unvote, Vote: PeregrineV

Especially after the loss of wanting me dead from the climax of yesterday.

PeregrineV · Post Post #573 (ISO) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:16 am

Rikana wrote:
Unvote

Fuck.

How the fuck is he town.

This shitty game.

Unvote, Vote: PeregrineV

Especially after the loss of wanting me dead from the climax of yesterday.

Thank God!!!

It's not just me. I felt yesterday was in no way resolved.

Vote: Rikana

Either you believe the gunsmith claim or you don't. If you do, then IS has to be town. If you don't then Sky is scum. Yet your vote didn't move.
Either way, I am so much happier to be voting where I know scum truly is.

@Sky- You mentioned Rikana a few times in your posts, but I can't find his response to you anywhere. Can you repeat them in a effort to elicit an answer from him? And contributing more than "my bad" would be good too.

@Locke- Thoughts on Sky claim? Thoughts on Rikana, esp. regarding day1 conversations and day2 information.

@Yabba- please point me in the direction of three of Rikana's town vibe posts, and three scumvibe posts. Help me see what you say you see, because I'm not seeing it.

@Swift, IS, SRG- Thoughts on Rikana

@Fighting- Are you scum? Useless town? Inactive? Where the hell are you?

Internet Stranger · Post Post #574 (ISO) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:42 am

I think Rikana is insane-town that really wants to leave his mark on the town and will do anything to stand out as much as possible. Its almost as if his reads are from a bizzaro alternate universe. If he is scum, he is the scum wild card of the group and would need to be bussed on and disposed. If he flips scum, I would actually be looking at you, Peregrine.

His actions are insane, and maybe thats his schtick, but it doesnt come off as scummy to me just yet.

We have been failing HARD, and I think lack of activity and sputtering wagons are the reason. My vote on Yabbaguy stems from blatant white knighting and trying to build a bullshit case on Swift. Just doesnt seem right to me.