NY136: The Death of ReaperCharlie (GAME OVER, Town win!)

[Iecerint]

Another thing is that I was confirmed vig via Meransiel D2...all the more reason to claim earlier...

We should only lynch Yos if he is probscum with both Xanatos and MBL.

[Yosarian2]

Somebody want to explain why I'm being voted here? Last I checked, the only argument against me was some bullshit theory of Mastin's that I was Shanba's scum partner just because I thought Shanba was town.

[David Xanatos]

1. DemonHybrid - Neighbour. Likely Town.
2. David Xanatos - Town Gunsmith.
3. mastin2 - Confirmed Townie.
4. Iecerint - Town Vig claim.
8. CrashTextDummie - Town Doc Claim.
11. MrBuddyLee - Guilty read. Owns a gun. Unless he's counter-claiming Vig, he's Scum.
13. Yosarian2 - Unknown.
16. Hydra - Unknown.
18. ToastyToast - Neighbour.

You were confirmed to have went to him.. until last night I would have said Assassin was a possibility..

Who did you shoot last night?

[David Xanatos]

1. DemonHybrid - Neighbour. Likely Town.
2. David Xanatos - Town Gunsmith..
4. Iecerint - Town Vig claim.
8. CrashTextDummie - Town Doc Claim.
11. MrBuddyLee - Guilty read. Owns a gun. Unless he's counter-claiming Vig, he's Scum.
13. Yosarian2 - Unknown.
16. Hydra - Unknown.
18. ToastyToast - Neighbour.

Forgot to remove Mastin2..

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, Xantos just claimed a guilty on MBL.

MBL's argument that Xantos can't be scum if I'm town actually kind of makes me want to vote MBL. I need to read the Xantos slot carefully, though, see if the claim fits with the behavior. The whole thing seems rather odd at first glance; why would he be roleblocked last night by a scum roleblocker?

[Iecerint]

Someone speculated about a scum rolecop as the other scum.

[David Xanatos]

From that list, the three who haven't claimed already are MBL, who's guilty, Yos, and Hydra.

If I had to pick a suspect role, I'd have said CTD in honesty, but the counter-claim isn't something I'd expect from Scum.

PEdit: Don't know. I suppose I did rather heavily fish to see if Iece had shots remaining, with the intention of outing myself if he didn't, because I could then have got protection but..

The only thing I can really point to is the fact that I realised my role couldn't pick up the SK, and noted it in thread.. ISO 14.

PEdit2:

It's a point actually.. Alien, Tracker, Gunsmith, Doc, Vig.. an RC and RB would be an ideal counter, and it would explain the apparent lack of a killing-role.

[David Xanatos]

Iece> Just in case you missed it.. did you shoot last night?

[Iecerint]

Yes, I shot Shanba.

[David Xanatos]

Okay. That's got rid of my concerns about you being an Assassin or similar.. with an RB and possibly an RC, a multi-shot killing role would be too much..

1. DemonHybrid - Neighbour. Likely Town.
2. David Xanatos - Town Gunsmith.
4. Iecerint - Town Vig.
8. CrashTextDummie - Town Doc Claim.
11. MrBuddyLee - Guilty read. Owns a gun. Scum.
13. Yosarian2 - Unknown.
16. Hydra - Unknown.
18. ToastyToast - Neighbour.

[Yosarian2]

Ok, let's see:

It would have been at the end of day 1 that the investigation happened, right? I believe that would have been Earworm in the slot at the time. Earworm did look town to me, but it's worth mentioning that he never mentioned MBL during the day. This isn't conclusive, he may have decided to investigate someone he didn't have a read on, but it's interesting.

I believe Pine not submitting a choice night 2. He only posted 3 times on day 2 before he replaced out.

Here's the part that really bugs me. David Xantos deciding to not claim on day 3 might be plausible, but David, you never even voted MBL on day 3. Why is that? If you found a gun on him, why wouldn't you at least want to pressure him and possibly see if you can get him to claim and/or lynch him without having to claim yourself? Not claiming, I can see, but not doing anything at all with a guilty while voting for Shanba and such, I'm having a harder time getting my mind around. David, can you explain?

[David Xanatos]

Because I considered Shanba quite dodgy.. and I didn't want to give him/her an "out" by way of "OMG GUILTY READ". I've made that mistake once before. My plan was, in a nutshell, to see how the Shanba thing went, and if it lost steam, start poking around MBL to see if he would claim, or if a wagon could be started on him without revealing myself.. when CTD counterclaimed though, the KJ lynch just went hyper, which turned out to be a good thing, but it did leave me not wanting to claim for the same reason as before, with Shanba.. I had hoped to get a second read, but the RB made that impossible.

[Yosarian2]

If I had to pick a suspect role, I'd have said CTD in honesty, but the counter-claim isn't something I'd expect from Scum.

CTD is pretty much confirmed town at this point. There is no way a scum could possibly have known that killerjester was lying. Well, I guess if they had a rolecop.

[Yosarian2]

Because I considered Shanba quite dodgy.. and I didn't want to give him/her an "out" by way of "OMG GUILTY READ". I've made that mistake once before. My plan was, in a nutshell, to see how the Shanba thing went, and if it lost steam, start poking around MBL to see if he would claim, or if a wagon could be started on him without revealing myself.. when CTD counterclaimed though, the KJ lynch just went hyper, which turned out to be a good thing, but it did leave me not wanting to claim for the same reason as before, with Shanba.. I had hoped to get a second read, but the RB made that impossible.

That's...weird. Some people had a scum read on Shanba. You'd rather go with that then go with an INVESTIGATION? I mean, you had a *GUILTY* on someone, wouldn't you rather lynch or at least pressure that person then try to go after someone else?

[David Xanatos]

And Yos, a common school of thought with Cops and similar roles is to investigate someone you feel is intelligent and good at reading people, as when they're confirmed, it's much more of an asset to Town than if you investigate the VI and he's Town.. may or may not have been earworm's logic, but that's my general stance.

And Yos, people claim at L-1 or L-2. That's what I was waiting for.

[David Xanatos]

And to address the CTD thing, I know, that's why I mentioned the counter-claim thing, and the "I'd have" is past-tense.

[Yosarian2]

And Yos, people claim at L-1 or L-2. That's what I was waiting for.

You were waiting for Shanba to claim? Why wouldn't you have wanted MBL to claim instead? We could always go back and attack other suspects the next day.

It's especially odd since Icerent had already claimed vig, so you knew MBL couldn't be the vig. So what was holding you back?

[David Xanatos]

Because I've been a Flavour Cop before, and my first guilty back then turned out to be Town Butcher. VT, but with a flavour-miller element.. my role detected knives.

And as I said, if the Shanba thing had died down, or he claimed, I was going to try and start a wagon on him. In hindsight I should have done what I started today, claimed full-Cop and got a claim, then if it was anything other than something like "Townie with a Gun", lynch.

And at that point, Ice wasn't 100% in my eyes, as I said, I had suspicions of Assassin. :/

[Yosarian2]

Because I've been a Flavour Cop before, and my first guilty back then turned out to be Town Butcher. VT, but with a flavour-miller element.. my role detected knives.

That kind of thing is pretty rare in normal games. Usually, vigs, cops, and mafia have guns.

And as I said, if the Shanba thing had died down, or he claimed, I was going to try and start a wagon on him. In hindsight I should have done what I started today, claimed full-Cop and got a claim, then if it was anything other than something like "Townie with a Gun", lynch.

And at that point, Ice wasn't 100% in my eyes, as I said, I had suspicions of Assassin. :/

Again; this is a normal game.

Anyway, I'm actually starting to believe David here. I don't really see this making much sense as a gambit; as MBL pointed out, if scum really needed one more mislynch to win here (only way that's possible right now is if they have 3 scum and a roleblocker to block the vig), then they wouldn't fake a guilty on MBL, they'd fake a guilty on me. We've already got the confirmed innocent DH *ignoring a claimed guilty* to vote for me for absolutely no reason, I'd clearly have been an easier mislynch then MBL here. And earworm *really* gave me pro-town vibes on day 2. Honestly, if the scum team was going to do a gambit, they'd probably come up with one that made more sense then this.

Vote:MrBuddyLee

[David Xanatos]

I still don't understand why lynching you would apparently prove or disprove that I was roleblocked..

[killerjester]

7. One "Bah" post is allowed. Do not post anything that could be construed as game related information.

Bah!

[Yosarian2]

I still don't understand why lynching you would apparently prove or disprove that I was roleblocked..

It wouldn't; DH is talking nonsense, as far as I can tell. He's confirmed town, though, so no point in questioning him, really.

[David Xanatos]

Even MBL's apparent claim it's MyLo doesn't match up.

It makes one major assumption, that 4/18 were/are Scum, AND there was an additional SK. That's a couple points under 30% of the players being in non-Town roles. That seems excessive to me.

Whereas 3/18 + SK would come out as just under 22.5%, and would give a feasible situation of Neighbour/RoleCop/RoleBlocker. No assassin, but a powerful investigative and the role to deal with them when discovered. With an SK around, an RC makes sense too.

[Yosarian2]

(shrug) It's possible that there are 3 scum left. If there are, though, then if MBL flips town, Icerent could still shoot you tonight and the game would keep going. Only way this could make any sense as a scum gambit is if there are 3 scum left and 1 of them is a roleblocker.

Just looking at the player list, though, I don't see how there could be 3 scum left. Icerent is confirmed vig (especially now that the SK is dead), DH and Toastytoast are basically confirmed town, CTD is almost certainly town, and either MBL is scum or Xantos is scum but not both. There's really not room for a 3 man scum group.

[ToastyToast]

Unless your scum *gasp*