Open 324 - Ninja Mafia (End. No Drama, please!)

[Hikari Link]

What the fuck happened here? For some reason while I was asleep, I stopped getting notifications. That is certainly vexing. Well, time to catch up.

[Cobblerfone]

Why aren't you trying to persuade others to go for a no-lynch today or tomorrow? The only time you tried was during the RVS.
...
It's actually a post from Matty, but I want a serious response from Cobbly to this.

Since I prefer no-lynching tomorrow instead of today I'm waiting until it's actually D2 to persuade. The thing with that post is that he didn't deny he was scum, rather he disagreed with the reasons he was scum. That, along with the added push on his wagon made me decide to vote him again.

Anyway Cobbler is probably scum

Why? Is it meta or general?

[Hikari Link]

Responding as I go, so some responses may end up outdated. I'll try to go back and correct for changes in the situation or if my questions become answered, but I may miss something.

@Post #84:What part of any interaction with matt was buddying? When someone makes a point I agree with, I voice my agreement. Gonna ISO Ray now to see if what you are saying hold up too.

Also, it's true that town can be inconsistent too but the key difference is the nature of the inconsistency. As you say, inconsistency =/= auto-scum, but very rarely is there a single scumtell that guarantees scum, so that's sort of a pointless statement.

so you think everyone is town besides you and cobbler? cool

How did you work that shit out?

BBmolla

- You come in, with 2 full pages already down. Answer some RQS that was buried way down on page 2, meaning you obviously at least MILDLY read through the game. Complain saying the game is going fast (Read: lots of content), but tell us you don't have any thoughts yet? This yells lurky mc lurkalot to me. "Hey guys, let me answer the RQS that I obviously noticed meaning I HAVE read the thread, then say I have no thought on the thread so far, due to there being to much info in the thread." -goes back to his little hole. Not even an RVS to try to see how people react to a vote from you?
null-scum

Glad I wasn't ignored, was going to see how long till someone would mention my one post.

I don't have any thoughts as of writing this sentence. I'm rereading. D1 discussions are rather nonsensical until someone slips up. And then 90% of the time it's a ML anyway.
I don't like to participate in RVS, I think it's bogus.
I answer questions because I prefer them to random votes, although all in all I don't think responses to questions are all that different regardless of alignment.

PM is probably scum. The degree of seriousness was immediate and I find this tends to come off of scum more than townmembers. I've never played anything with him, so I'd need to compare his "tone" to others games. Eye on him. Not completely sure.

KCDA seems town for now. Town points for the early FoSes, actively calling people out like that without fear generally is town.

Hip gives no reasons for his "town reads". Nothing else really of interest yet, although he's pleasant and gives off a bit of a townie feel.

Maru is probably town. For the analysis. Subject to change.

Link is probtown. Responses seem legit.

Cobbler reads town to me.

Ray may seem anti town, but I'm pretty sure he always gives off that feel, having played a game with him. Still, worth to keep an eye on.

Don is null.

Honestly just waiting for this phase to end. I'll throw up a vote when I see fit.

Gonna have to disagree on the hiplop point, because I don't trust people with no reasoning behind their posts. Not sure I approve of the claim that your lurking was reaction fishing, but the rest of your post reads fairly town. Any suspicions so far now?

@Maruchan: Answer to question #4 is about on par in terms of scumminess with projectmatt. In general you seem town, but this kind of sticks out. Claiming that you are going to look scummy later doesn't mean your scumminess will get a free pass.

What are you timezones?

PDT, which from my understanding is GMT-7.

~~~~Hikari Link, why do you not like to be called "Hikari"?

Here's a quote from me explaining why.

Short answer? Because Hikari by itself is a girl's name. Either that or a meaningless and contextless adjective.

It would be like calling projectmatt "project" or Super Mario "Super".

Post 42 - Linky

You mentioned that you are looking more carefully into buddying due to a game. Can you tell us more about that game?

This game right here. Nachomamma8 was basically calling me town from the start and even went through the trouble of stating various instances where I showed my townieness. The only thing is, turns out he was scum, so he really knew I was own anyway. As a result, I now keep an eye out for people trying to get on my good side by declaring me town.

Not seeing the case against Matty. Something about him appearing friendly and not moving the game forward. If you get a friendly tone from his posts, then I'm Devil-Tomie this game based upon my first 2 posts here. And not moving the game forward? He at least asked questions. There were players joking around.
There was also the bit about wording. Apparently, it's scummier to mention that you side with the town than that you aren't with the scum. I disagree. It's the way players word it. It depends on the player, not on his allignment. I wrote a complete story there, because that's who I am.
The only bit I agree on is his 'excuse' of the playstyle. But this whole case has been made into an elephant, while it's actually a dog. Which is why the attackers worry me more.

I agree that it is a bit excessive, but it's been good pressure on him and ti's shown us a few things about those on the wagon. Cobblerfone has definitely come off looking worse for the wear and projectmatt has maintained his composure and nicely worked on countering most arguments against him.

Post 84 - MaruMaru

Puhlease. There's so much wrong with this post.
The most notable things:
-Saying that Spotty's case against Matty is weak, yet using it against Matty.
-Your hypocricy. You mentioned against Matty how scummy it is to mention that his playstyle looks scummy. But when you answer the questions, how do you call yourself?
-...

Some questions as well:
-Why 'warn' Spotty that you'll attack him if he changes his case if Matty gets close to lynching?
-What did you think of Cobbly's vote against Matty? You mentioned that scum tend to keep their vote until an easy target shows up. Do you think that this could be the case with Cobbly's vote? Why or why not?
-Why is Cobbly 'null-town'? Because I don't see anything in your analysis that could hint at you seeing him as town. Depending on the answer to this question, argument 3 might be revealed. Hint: It has to do with Loppy's post, which he worded wrong.

Post 103 - MaruMaru
And then comes the next thing, in your big analysis post, you accused multiple players. One of the attacks was based upon a player mentioning he looks scummy as his playstyle. JJ did so to and you didn't mention it. Then next is Desc, who has read the game, but didn't mention anything of content. You used that in your analysis post as well to attack some players. And now, Desc is left alone with just 'a friendly advice'. It only makes your big post look more fake to me.

I reserve my comments until Maruchan responds.

With that said,

Vote MaruMaru

Cobbler is the other player who has a high place on my list of scummy players.
Linky, Loppy and Matty are town.

Please explain these reads.

I'm fairly satisfied with matt's last 3 posts.
UNVOTE: projectmatt
I've been working on this catch up for a while and I'm a bit tired, so I'm going to take a break, come back and reread later with my reads on everybody so far.

[Scumhunter]

4 questions:

Who are you?

Why do you play mafia?

Why are you not scum?

What will you be known for this game?

Hai. I'm scumhunter.

Competition. I love trying to figure out people's intentions. It's a challenge and every player is different and every game is different.

Because my PM says so.

Probably for lurking the first 10-15 pages and then coming out of nowhere and raping the face of the mafia. At least that's the plan anyways.

vote: cavjj

(pretty sure he's a troll)

[cavjj]

Scumhunter, that last game was nothing personal

[CSL]

The Third votecount of Day 1

DonJosh -[0]-
Tomie Uzumaki -[0]-
Ray Montano -[1]- [Maruchan]
Cobblerfone -[1]- [Quilford]
Super Mario -[0]-
BBmolla -[0]-
Descent -[0]-
hiplop -[3]- [DonJosh, projectmatt, Descent]
Scumhunter -[0]-
cavjj -[1]- [Scumhunter]
Mysterio -[0]-
zMuffinMan -[0]-
Hikari Link -[1]- [hiplop]
projectmatt -[2]- [Kcdaspot, Cobblerfone]
Quilford -[0]-
Maruchan -[1]- [Tomie Uzumaki]
Sundy -[0]-
Kcdaspot -[1]- [cavjj]

~Everyone has confirmed!
~~With 18 alive, it will take 10 to lynch, 9 to no lynch
~~~The deadline is in (expired on 2011-09-04 20:00:00), or

September 4th, 2011 @ 7pm CDT

[Ray Montano]

Ray:

I ask again what is pro-town about buddying?

It all depends on the intention. If there's a player with a power role who has gained town affirmation on another player then buddying with that player is perfectly pro-town.

Ray Montano

- Ray. Ray ray ray. You seriously need to stop active lurking. You failed to RVS with your first vote, and have still yet to vote. This is how many people play their vote as scum. You want to hold it to yourself till you find out who has the greatest chance of dying. You don't want to stick it on someone that will bring too much attention to you, but you have yet to find out who those attention bringers are, so you are safer just not using it. Scumdar is seriously going off here. Other than your lack-of-vote, all content you have posted every game has been nothing more than to answer general questions directed at everybody. You have yet to participate actively, and yet to comment on the goings-on. Yet you post often, and whenever you see a question you can answer, so you are obviously reading the thread to look for questions. This is a way to look like you are actively participating, while lacking the active participation. My scumdar is seriously going crazy now. This is not a "You are scum for lurking." this is a "you are scummy for ACTIVELY lurking". There is a difference.
Scum

This is a nice effort but half your case is nulled by the fact that I don't random vote. This is a great example of a player who doesn't really have anything to go off. Active lurking cases are for players who can't see anything else, which is somewhat normal this stage in the game but to proclaim me scum because of it is silly.

An OMGUS is voting somebody because they voted you. I attacked Cubber for sheeping KDCA by saying "he makes a good point" but then making a bad out of context quote to cover it up. It's a serious vote based off of a very scummy post.

Let's be real here, if cobbler had been referencing any player other than yourself you would not be voting them: thus, OMGUS.

Ray Montano gains massive scum points for

"what will you be known for"

"we'll see"

Will we not?

[zMuffinMan]

Hi,

I'm around, sort of. I'll have to catch up on this tomorrow.

[Kcdaspot]

Ray is getting scummy. I hate 131 with a passion.

My PM wagon is dead so...

VOTE: BBMolla

only wall? "everyone is town."

NOPE.

[Kcdaspot]

BTW, just so everyone's aware, we have 6 MLs and 1 NL until MYLO/LYLO.

And my timezone is PST I think.

lynch.
him.
now.

Remember what i was on about? trying to SEEM town? TAKE A WILD GUESS AT WHAT THE BOLDED IS DOING.

[hiplop]

so you think everyone is town besides you and cobbler? cool

okay it took me 3 times to read this to notice how wrong this is.



EH???????????

meant to say

"so you think everyone is scum besides you and cobbler? cool"


As for project matt, I just don't see any scum motives for what hes doing, hes defending himself in a professional matter.

I'd support Rays death, Kay.

[projectmatt]

hiplop
As for project matt, I just don't see any scum motives for what hes doing, hes defending himself in a professional matter.

This is bad. A mafia's number one goal when suspected is to defend themselves.

Ray
Let's be real here, if cobbler had been referencing any player other than yourself you would not be voting them: thus, OMGUS.

No, this is a terrible and scummy post too because it assumes something in order to make the person being quoted looks scummy. "If cobbler has been referencing any player, YOU WOULD not be voting them".

And Cobbler is scum. Look.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... lect=15685

KC's town. I have a couple o' theories as to what pinged yo' scumdar. Mind telling me exactly what it was?

1. Marking down a random town read on page 1 for no specific reason. 2. There is no reason to use "o'" and "yo'" here. It just comes off as forced.

In post Post #40 he pushes me to tell why I'm not telling my reasoning for my RVS question with a vote. After I hadn't responded in a few minutes.

Next post, he unvotes and calls it a "town plausible motive". Meaning that he MARKED ME DOWN AS POSSIBLE TOWN.

Now, let's look at the next post, which was written a few minutes after:

The largest flaw in KDCA's scumhunting is that he is using my "tone" as an argument as to why I am sided with the mafia.

Then why are you sided with the mafia? I see what Kc sees. I hope I can get a more solid scumread later but now:

Vote: projectmatt

again.

This is bad because instead of saying "KDCA makes a good point' and voting he decides to take a quote completely out of context so I look scummy. Think about it for a moment. If he had simply posted "KDCA makes a good point" and voted me, it would look sheepy. He added it not to look bad. A town shouldn't be concerned about that.

Next post, claims that it added "mind pressure" which is incredibly, incredibly hard to buy. He also explains his town read on KDCA in these words:

Yeah, I feel like we're already out of RVS so I'll just tell you why I have a town-read on Kcda: His brashness and how he went and made a FOS in its own little post. Now this isn't the most clear explanation, but you see what the heart of the reason is, right?

That literally sounds like it was written at the very top of his head.

And his last post, post #126:

Since I prefer no-lynching tomorrow instead of today I'm waiting until it's actually D2 to persuade. The thing with that post is that he didn't deny he was scum, rather he disagreed with the reasons he was scum. That, along with the added push on his wagon made me decide to vote him again.

Ooh, a contradiction! He was asked why he made that vote before, and he said "it added mind pressure" and now instead he says that he voted me again because my wording in that post was bad. I, okay. Seeing something and voting it to add "mind pressure" and then later claiming it was for an actual reason gives away a few major tells.

That's all on Cobber for now.

[Cobblerfone]

1. Marking down a random town read on page 1 for no specific reason. 2. There is no reason to use "o'" and "yo'" here. It just comes off as forced.

It's the way it sounded in my head. Also, "yo'" is shorter than "your".

Ooh, a contradiction! He was asked why he made that vote before, and he said "it added mind pressure" and now instead he says that he voted me again because my wording in that post was bad. I, okay. Seeing something and voting it to add "mind pressure" and then later claiming it was for an actual reason gives away a few major tells.

No, I didn't vote you to add "mind-pressure" (which, when we start using outside of the original purpose to describe something quickly, it does start to sound stupid, admittedly. ). The reason I quoted you and asked that question was to add pressure to your response, in the same way the standard "are you scum?" question is used.

[Maruchan]

Some questions as well:
-Why 'warn' Spotty that you'll attack him if he changes his case if Matty gets close to lynching?
-What did you think of Cobbly's vote against Matty? You mentioned that scum tend to keep their vote until an easy target shows up. Do you think that this could be the case with Cobbly's vote? Why or why not?
-Why is Cobbly 'null-town'? Because I don't see anything in your analysis that could hint at you seeing him as town. Depending on the answer to this question, argument 3 might be revealed. Hint: It has to do with Loppy's post, which he worded wrong.

1. IDK. It felt like the right thing to say when I said it.
2. I guess it could. Except the way he phrased the vote would have garnered too much attention. Usually scum place their votes in ways so as to avoid attention.
3. IDK. He just felt townier to me than most of the others.

Linky, Loppy and Matty are town.

Would you care to use more detail in explaining this please? I believe we already asked KCDA for his town-reads on matt, as none of us saw them. Now I am asking you for yours also, because I still don't see them

Anyway Cobbler is probably scum

God the people in this game just love to give reads without explaining them!

2. Tomie, please call people by their real names from now on. I am having a hell of a time deciphering your posts.

It's not that hard~

DonJosh = DonDon
Tomie Uzumaki = Tomie
Ray Montano = RayRay
Cobblerfone = Cobbly
Super Mario = It's me, Mario
BBmolla = MollaMolla
Descent = Desc
hiplop = Loppy
Scumhunter = Hunter for my heart~
cavjj = JJ
Mysterio = Mystery
zMuffinMan = Muffy
Hikari Link = Linky
projectmatt = Matty
Quilford = Quilly
Maruchan = MaruMaru
Sundy = SunSun
Kcdaspot = Spotty

See~? The only ones who come close to being annoying are: Super Mario, Scumhunter, Mysterio and Kcdaspot. And I can understand if Muffin will hate me XD

I still prefer real names, if you don't mind.

What part of any interaction with matt was buddying?

It just seemed to me you defended him quite a bit.

Gonna have to disagree on the hiplop point, because I don't trust people with no reasoning behind their posts. Not sure I approve of the claim that your lurking was reaction fishing, but the rest of your post reads fairly town. Any suspicions so far now?

I pretty much agree with what he said here.

Answer to question #4 is about on par in terms of scumminess with projectmatt. In general you seem town, but this kind of sticks out. Claiming that you are going to look scummy later doesn't mean your scumminess will get a free pass.

Oh I completely understand! But ask Twistedspoon and Quilford how scummy-town I can look. Also go read my wiki, the 2 games that are at the bottom of my incomplete list. You'll see in time I will be the scummiest town player, and will probably be lynched for it. I'm not saying this is okay, I'm merely giving you guys a heads up.

This is a nice effort but half your case is nulled by the fact that I don't random vote.

In which case, what I told Matt also is true to you. If you don't like to RVS, tell us. In your first post too. He failed to tell us in his first post (where the RVS should've been), but YOU failed to tell us at all until I confronted you about it and called it scummy!

Hi,

I'm around, sort of. I'll have to catch up on this tomorrow.

Looking forward to your analysis. if 1122 is anything to go off of, I can't wait to see who you dig after.

Ray is getting scummy. I hate 131 with a passion.

My PM wagon is dead so...

VOTE: BBMolla

only wall? "everyone is town."

NOPE.

@Tomie, this is why I mentioned it. You all clearly saw that I was preparing to call him scum. Now my scum call on him won't be baseless. He did exactly what I predicted he would do (if scum).

Remember what i was on about? trying to SEEM town? TAKE A WILD GUESS AT WHAT THE BOLDED IS DOING.

The bolded would be a good case of IIoA, trying to give information to look townie but not actually analyzing the game.

meant to say

"so you think everyone is scum besides you and cobbler? cool"


As for project matt, I just don't see any scum motives for what hes doing, hes defending himself in a professional matter.

I'd support Rays death, Kay.

Thats why I voted Ray first. Matt is at least helping the game, whether he is town or scum. Ray was active lurking. I would rather kill an active lurker scum than a proactive helpful scum. And by the time Matt is up on the chopping block again, he may have changed my mind. with Kcda's flip off the BW, I am already starting to lean a lot more towards a Kcda than matt. Because his flip off the BW tells me he didn't read my wall very well. He glanced at it, saw it, then called me town for it, while ignoring it.

[Maruchan]

@Matt, you obviously didn't read the analysis I made of you either. when quoting someone, PLEASE type

Code: Select all

[quote="NAME HERE"]blah blah blah[/quote]

so I can actually see what you're refering to.

[Maruchan]

Ignore the comment about twistedspoon. Wrong person.

[projectmatt]

Maru, read my post again. I didn't use that exact code but I put the name of the poster who was posting before any post I quoted. With the exception of Cobblestone since it's obvious every post was coming from him.

No, I didn't vote you to add "mind-pressure" (which, when we start using outside of the original purpose to describe something quickly, it does start to sound stupid, admittedly. ). The reason I quoted you and asked that question was to add pressure to your response, in the same way the standard "are you scum?" question is used.

Fair enough explanation for the moment. I still don't see you as town.

[BBmolla]

Ray is getting scummy. I hate 131 with a passion.

My PM wagon is dead so...

VOTE: BBMolla

only wall? "everyone is town."

NOPE.

Sorry about that I'll tell everyone to seem scummier to me.

BTW, just so everyone's aware, we have 6 MLs and 1 NL until MYLO/LYLO.

And my timezone is PST I think.

lynch.
him.
now.

Remember what i was on about? trying to SEEM town? TAKE A WILD GUESS AT WHAT THE BOLDED IS DOING.

If the above part is scummy, the below part is too. They're both just facts.

@Link: Working on suspicions, apparently I misread the whole town.

[Maruchan]

Maru, read my post again. I didn't use that exact code but I put the name of the poster who was posting before any post I quoted. With the exception of Cobblestone since it's obvious every post was coming from him.

No, I didn't vote you to add "mind-pressure" (which, when we start using outside of the original purpose to describe something quickly, it does start to sound stupid, admittedly. ). The reason I quoted you and asked that question was to add pressure to your response, in the same way the standard "are you scum?" question is used.

Fair enough explanation for the moment. I still don't see you as town.

ah I didn't notice that. I figured those were part of the quotes. Which is why I would prefer if you used the quote code to do it, so it is obvious. THanks for clearing that up for me though.

[Maruchan]

Quilford, quick question. Reading through a few other games, I see that you asked to be replaced out of a game a week and a half ago, due to being to overloaded, so why replace in to this one?

[Ray Montano]

Ray
Let's be real here, if cobbler had been referencing any player other than yourself you would not be voting them: thus, OMGUS.

No, this is a terrible and scummy post too because it assumes something in order to make the person being quoted looks scummy. "If cobbler has been referencing any player, YOU WOULD not be voting them".

I have NO idea what you're attempting to say here. Can you restate...or say something that makes sense?

2. There is no reason to use "o'" and "yo'" here. It just comes off as forced.

That is a really crappy reason to get a scum read. When I was newb I used yo all the time because its how I speak. Questioning someone over the word yo is not valid.

In which case, what I told Matt also is true to you. If you don't like to RVS, tell us. In your first post too. He failed to tell us in his first post (where the RVS should've been), but YOU failed to tell us at all until I confronted you about it and called it scummy!

That is not my issue.

[Maruchan]

No, but it becomes your issue if you don't like that you pinged some scumdars.

[Ray Montano]

Pinging players' scumdars only bothers me if there's something I need to defend myself against. What you have suggested is not anything I should be bothered by.

[Kcdaspot]

Ray is getting scummy. I hate 131 with a passion.

My PM wagon is dead so...

VOTE: BBMolla

only wall? "everyone is town."

NOPE.

Sorry about that I'll tell everyone to seem scummier to me.

BTW, just so everyone's aware, we have 6 MLs and 1 NL until MYLO/LYLO.

And my timezone is PST I think.

lynch.
him.
now.

Remember what i was on about? trying to SEEM town? TAKE A WILD GUESS AT WHAT THE BOLDED IS DOING.

If the above part is scummy, the below part is too. They're both just facts.

Nice rebuttal.

[Kcdaspot]

where's my molla lynch?