NY136: The Death of ReaperCharlie (GAME OVER, Town win!)


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Post Post #1550 (ISO) » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:55 pm

Post by Yosarian2 »

Hydra wrote:
In fact, you played in a game called Aggressive Mind Game mafia where scum fakeclaimed a cop guilty on
YOU,
so I don't think it is outside the realm of possibilities to consider this result here was faked. Yet, you didn't think this was at all possible this game, instead basically sticking on MBL all day. The difference is you knew MBL was scum here.


Of course I considered the possibility. If you don't know that, you obviously didn't read my posts yesterday, since I discussed it at fairly great length. I asked Xantos a series of questions about his actions and motives, figured out he was almost certanly town based on motive and behavior, and then voted for MBL. It's called playing mafia.

The fact that you apparently didn't read my posts yesterday is interesting, since you were voting for me for the entire day. If you weren't even trying to get a read on my alignment, then you must have had some other motive for voting for me; the most obvious one is that you were trying to protect my scumbuddy.

The "aggressive mind games" example is a fairly terrible one, as I'm sure you know. That was a scum who was going to get lynched anyway trying to take a town down with him. As I carefully established yesterday, Xantos had no such motivation at all.

So given the fact two people had been taken out of the equation with a 50/50 chance of scum among them, I immediately latched onto the person who from my perspective I knew had the highest chance of being scum, which was Yosarian2. You're using hindsight bias extraordinarily well there to try and paint me as scum.


Hindsight bias? Pah. I figured out you were MBL's buddy yesterday.

Yes, knowing then what I know now about alignments, I would have voted MBL. But I didn't. I couldn't figure it out, but I could figure out one thing. Knowing I was town, you were the clear logical choice for me to vote, because I was most certain of you being scum.


You "couldn't figure it out"? Bull. You never even TRIED to figure it out, which is a completely different thing. We had a cop claim a guilty on another person, and you did your best to ignore the whole situation and try to distract the town into lynching a third party. If you had tried to figure it out, if you had even commented on which one of the two was more likely scum, that'd be one thing, but you carefully avoided ever doing anything like that, lest you link yourself to your buddy.

That's a classic scum mistake; ignoring the cop claim makes sense if you don't want to lynch your buddy but don't want to be seen defending him, but there's no way a townie would have absolutely no opinion on the whole "cop claimed a guilty on a buddy" situation the way you were pretending t


And as for your last point, you seemed to have rendered it moot by your own words here today. You say that I would be afraid of the gunsmith and vigilante, yet then accuse and bring up the possibility that I could be a godfather, with kill or investigation immunity, which would invalidate your own point here about being afraid of those two roles.


Um, no. I thought you were a godfather when I thought Icerent had tried to kill you and failed, which I thought was the most likely explanation for the lack of a vig kill despite the dead roleblocker. Now that I know that's not actually true, odds are you're probably just a goon.

As a goon, the last thing you would want to do is to let your roleblocker be lynched in a cop-vig situation. You also didn't want to have him confirmed as scum by lynching the cop, though, especally not when a vig was alive. So you took the desperate scum move of trying to lynch a third party.

Your actions make perfect sense from a scum. They don't actually make sense if you were town, though.


I think you're contradicting yourself at several turns, using significant logical fallacies, and have played towards a scum win condition this entire game, which Is why I feel very confident in my vote on you.


Lol. No contradiction, no logical fallacies. You're scum, and you're caught scum.
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Post Post #1551 (ISO) » Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:27 pm

Post by Hydra »

The fact that you apparently didn't read my posts yesterday is interesting, since you were voting for me for the entire day. If you weren't even trying to get a read on my alignment, then you must have had some other motive for voting for me; the most obvious one is that you were trying to protect my scumbuddy.


I read your posts yesterday. I also wasn't voting for you the entire day. Based on my MBL town read and the fact I though DX was gambiting scum, I initially voted him before moving to him realizing you were the most logical and clear choice for being scum. With potentially the game on the line yesterday, I wanted to make no bad choices when choosing who to lynch. I already had a plan in place using night actions to get sort out which of MBL and DX was scum or town.

I've had the entire game to get a read on your alignment, and your actions over the course of daysspoke louder than some of the words you said. Not even considering I was the best option for lynch yesterday is definite scum mindset. And you can hardly say I haven't gotten a read on your alignment when you haven't attempted really to get a read on mine, instead basically 'decreeing' me scum.

The "aggressive mind games" example is a fairly terrible one, as I'm sure you know. That was a scum who was going to get lynched anyway trying to take a town down with him. As I carefully established yesterday, Xantos had no such motivation at all.


Why is it terrible? Each situation had a cop claim, and in each situation it was unclear who was lying and who was telling the truth. There is a clear difference in you reaction though, in AGM you were town and acted one way, here you're probably scum acting in a very different way.

Hindsight bias? Pah. I figured out you were MBL's buddy yesterday.


No, you're using hindsight bias. I clearly explained how my motivations yesterday made more sense from town than scum, {which as you wrote somewhere (i'll go find it) is the primary way you should use to try and determine alignments}. Saying I am scum because of some improbable scenario now that makes me look bad then is hindsight bias. I attempted to determine who was scum yesterday clearlly, and I latched on to you, which is also coincidentally when you decided I 'must be scum' as well.

You "couldn't figure it out"? Bull. You never even TRIED to figure it out,


BULL. I thought it was actually DX gambiting, which I (wrongly) stated many times. This is untrue Yos.

If you had tried to figure it out, if you had even commented on which one of the two was more likely scum, that'd be one thing, but you carefully avoided ever doing anything like that


Lies. Several times I did

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 9#p3319329
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 4#p3319334
And here as well https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 6#p3332896

Also, you say this

So you took the desperate scum move of trying to lynch a third party.

Your actions make perfect sense from a scum. They don't actually make sense if you were town, though.


When you're not third party at all, you were the player who made most sense as scum, (and evidently you thought the same thing you are accusing me of doing, look)

Yosarian yesterday wrote:Yes, yes, I know that you're also scum, but even if we lynch you and you flip scum, it doesn't actually solve the problem, we're still in the same situation tomorrow. Ideally, we want to deal with the Xantos/MBL problem now, while we still have a living vig.

I mean, we could lynch you today, if that's what you want. I'd rather lynch the guy we have a cop guilty on, but hey. Either scum works.


When you seem VERY certain I am scum (in fact, if you were town, you would know almost implicitly I was scum), yet still refused to vote me. I already laid out a plan to catch the remaining scum through the use of the vig and the gunsmith as well.

~~~
I think it is pretty clear you're scum. Combined with all sorts of logical fallacies, you've taking to lying here and there in an attempt to discredit me. As they say in the classics, 'you're scum, and you're caught scum'.
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Post Post #1552 (ISO) » Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:47 pm

Post by Hydra »

This head appreciates huge walls from other head, but only has this as a rejoinder to Yos' walls of huge town looking town fakery.

Yosarian2 wrote:you must have had some other motive for voting for me; the most obvious one is that you were trying to protect
my
scumbuddy.

Freud says hi!
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Post Post #1553 (ISO) » Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:37 pm

Post by Yosarian2 »

Yeah, yeah. You guys talk a good game, but I think you know you've lost. All the walls of text, emotional manipulation, and "scum slip lol" foolery in the world isn't going to save you at this point, because smart townies aren't even reading your BS today, they're looking at how you acted when your scum buddy was lynched yesterday.

On a side note, I really hope you're the last scum. I've got to say, though, that it really bugs me that CTD has defended all 3 scum during the course of the game; he defended Parama/Bowser, and yesterday he defended both MBL and Hydra to the hilt. If he's town, that's got to be some kind of record. So, is he your buddy, or not?

If the moons align and you do somehow manage to get me lynched, then when I flip town, who would you want to lynch tommorow?
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Post Post #1554 (ISO) » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:02 pm

Post by DemonHybrid »

I think the common consensus is that Hydra is the lynch for today. Do we have enough information at this point, to avoid any additional WIFOM?
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Post Post #1555 (ISO) » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:06 pm

Post by Iecerint »

I don't think CTD would have counter-claimed doc like that. Even if they knew KJ was lying because of a rolecop, it would just set him up for CC by the real doc.
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Post Post #1556 (ISO) » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:07 pm

Post by DemonHybrid »

If we lynch Hydra and he flips scum Rolecop, lets think hard between Yosarian and CTD.
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Post Post #1557 (ISO) » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:11 pm

Post by Hydra »

@Yos - just keep dismissing, it's what you do best.

@Iec and DH - seriously? Not even a peep on the Freudian slip there - that thing is pure gold as far as catching scum.
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Post Post #1558 (ISO) » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:14 pm

Post by Amrun »

VC5.3

(0) DemonHybrid
(0) Iecerint
(0) CrashTextDummie
(1) Yosarian2 - Hydra
(2) Hydra - DemonHybrid, Yosarian2
(0) ToastyToast

Not Voting: Iecerint, CrashTextDummie, ToastyToast

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline: Friday, August 26, 11pm EST


Spoiler: Vote History
DemonHybrid - Yosarian2 > Hydra
Iecerint -
CrashTextDummie -
Yosarian2 - Hydra
Hydra - Yoasarian2
ToastyToast -


If there are any mistakes, please let me know.
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Post Post #1559 (ISO) » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:20 pm

Post by Hydra »

Yeah, yeah. You guys talk a good game, but I think you know you've lost.


um, no. I have shown multiple times where you have backtracked on yourself, straight up lied to get a point across, shown that your case on us amounts to 'welp hydra is scum because hydra is scum' which is nonsense, and disproved any logical point you've brought against us so well you've resorted to simply calling our points 'bs' and leaving it at that.

DH wrote:I think the common consensus is that Hydra is the lynch for today.


the consensus of yosarian? Read his posts and our again, and you will change your mind. Whatever made you vote him at the beginning of the day was a good impulse, and I highly recommend experiencing it again in order to vote him. I'm not even sure exactly why you're voting us over him when I think we have shown sufficiently that he is scum based on his actions this entire game.
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Post Post #1560 (ISO) » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:41 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

Heh. You keep going on and on, but I guess you're never going to answer my question, right hydra? I'm not surprised.
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Post Post #1561 (ISO) » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:44 am

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Iecerint wrote:I don't think CTD would have counter-claimed doc like that. Even if they knew KJ was lying because of a rolecop, it would just set him up for CC by the real doc.


Eh. Not really convinced by that argument. CTD waited quite a while before counterclaiming, I'm pretty sure basically everyone else in the game had posted after the doc claim but before the counterclaim. I think he'd know by that point that if anyone else was planning to counterclaim, they would have already done it.

I hope you're right, though. If CTD is town and Hydra is the last scum, that makes this so much easier.
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Post Post #1562 (ISO) » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:54 am

Post by Hydra »

Heh. You keep going on and on, but I guess you're never going to answer my question, right hydra? I'm not surprised.


Erm, which question did I not answer?

This nonsense one?:

Yosarian wrote:If the moons align and you do somehow manage to get me lynched, then when I flip town, who would you want to lynch tommorow?


I'm pretty sure lynching you ends the game, because you're going to flip scum. I see no real purpose to this question, Yosarian. I suppose there is a small possibility it isn't you, and I'm not certain about anyone until their alignment is actually revealed. But questions like this make me doubt that you are actually going to flip town.

Seriously, are the last few posts by you all the reasons you have against me and want me to answer?

I have a question for you
Hey Yosarian, is Mars aligns with Venus on the fourteenth of the month of the year of the rabbit and I get lynched, when I flip town, who are you going to want to lynch tomorrow?
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Post Post #1563 (ISO) » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:12 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

Hydra wrote:
I'm pretty sure lynching you ends the game, because you're going to flip scum. I see no real purpose to this question, Yosarian. I suppose there is a small possibility it isn't you, and I'm not certain about anyone until their alignment is actually revealed. But questions like this make me doubt that you are actually going to flip town.


Oh, the question has a very important purpose. The purpose is to see if you're willing to either commit right now to saying "everyone but Yos is confirmed town, if he flips, lynch me tommorow", or, alternatly, to see if you're willing to actually think and try to figure out who you think is most likely to be scum if I'm town. The fact that you're not willing to do either today is pretty clear proof of you being scum. The hard question is, is it because you have a buddy and don't want to link to him, or is it because you don't have a buddy and are trying to leave you options open for tomorrow if you somehow survive today?


Seriously, are the last few posts by you all the reasons you have against me and want me to answer?


You are clearly linked to dead scum. It's that simple. No one needs any more reason then that, and no amount of wall-posting on your part changes the fact. So, no, I'm not going to waste time trading pointless walls with you at this point. It's not like I'm going to convince you to vote yourself.

I have a question for you
Hey Yosarian, is Mars aligns with Venus on the fourteenth of the month of the year of the rabbit and I get lynched, when I flip town, who are you going to want to lynch tomorrow?


Nice try, but I already answered this question. I think everyone in the game is confirmed town except for you and CTD, so if we lynch you and that somehow doesn't end the game, either because you have a scumbuddy or because you (lol) flip town, tomorrow I'm going to vote for CTD.

There, you see? Not a hard question to answer. So why are you so reluctant to do so?
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Post Post #1564 (ISO) » Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:23 pm

Post by Hydra »

The purpose is to see if you're willing to either commit right now to saying "everyone but Yos is confirmed town, if he flips, lynch me tommorow",


This is insane. If you do flip town, I'm not going to lynch the only player in the game I know for a fact is town, myself, just because I was wrong about your alignment. I'll definitely read over everyone in the game, but I'm not going to lynch myself because I was wrong about you. (have you ever said or done this in a game before, which is what you're suggesting pro-town behavior is? If so, can you link them)

see if you're willing to actually think and try to figure out who you think is most likely to be scum if I'm town. The fact that you're not willing to do either today is pretty clear proof of you being scum.


Well, I think you're more likely scum than town based on your actions. What it looks to me like you're doing is a useless thought experiment. For one thing, making me come up with a conjecture of who I think is mostly likely scum if you are town (or your scumbuddy) is pretty pointless when i think you are the most likely player here) For another, it wastes a lot of time for no real purpose, I'm not going to lynch my second or third scum candidate in any game, let alone this one when I believe the choice is very clear. It seems like a scum suggestion to waste a lot of time.

You are clearly linked to dead scum. It's that simple. No one needs any more reason then that, and no amount of wall-posting on your part changes the fact. So, no, I'm not going to waste time trading pointless walls with you at this point. It's not like I'm going to convince you to vote yourself.


Not at all (in a negative way which is what your are implying). I made that comment because I wanted to prove to the other players in the game that you really don't have any reasons for your vote on us, instead hoping a little winking and nudging and buddying up will force this lynch through.

because you (lol) flip town,


Why is this so hard to believe for you?

There, you see? Not a hard question to answer. So why are you so reluctant to do so?


Well, it looks like you're trying to chain up lynches predicated on a condition which you acknowledge is quite possible (us flipping town). Why am I so reluctant to do so I already explained, but again, its because I believe you are scum, see no reason to jump through your scum inspired hoops, and
only
when the flip comes and if you do flip town will I reread this thread.
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Post Post #1565 (ISO) » Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:31 pm

Post by Magister Ludi »

Mod: Prod on Toasty and CTD
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Post Post #1566 (ISO) » Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:26 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

Yeah, we're not going to get anything out of Hydra today. I guess he's going to die before doing anything that might connect him to his hypothetical buddy, like analyze the alignments of other people in the game. Oh, well, it was worth a try.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #1567 (ISO) » Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:16 am

Post by Hydra »

Yosarian, one point I asked you;

Hydra wrote:I'll definitely read over everyone in the game, but I'm not going to lynch myself because I was wrong about you. (have you ever said or done this in a game before, which is what you're suggesting pro-town behavior is? If so, can you link them)


~~~~

Yos2 wrote:Yeah, we're not going to get anything out of Hydra today. I guess he's going to die before doing anything that might connect him to his hypothetical buddy, like analyze the alignments of other people in the game. Oh, well, it was worth a try.


Well, I don't plan on being lynched here. Do you usually try and scumhunt by talking in many hypothetical situations?
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Post Post #1568 (ISO) » Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:22 am

Post by ToastyToast »

Magister Ludi wrote:
Mod: Prod on Toasty and CTD

V/LA YOU

And reading this makes it a clear 1v1 between yosarian and Hydra.
Which one claimed bulletproof again?
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Post Post #1569 (ISO) » Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:15 am

Post by Amrun »

Prodding CrashTextDummie.

Toasty is V/LA.
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Post Post #1570 (ISO) » Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:50 pm

Post by Hydra »

Toasty
, Neither of us claimed bulletproof, I think you're thinking of when Yosarian brought up a bulletproof godfather (for some unknown reason)
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Post Post #1571 (ISO) » Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:23 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

Hydra wrote:Yosarian, one point I asked you;

Hydra wrote:I'll definitely read over everyone in the game, but I'm not going to lynch myself because I was wrong about you. (have you ever said or done this in a game before, which is what you're suggesting pro-town behavior is? If so, can you link them)


~~~~

Yos2 wrote:Yeah, we're not going to get anything out of Hydra today. I guess he's going to die before doing anything that might connect him to his hypothetical buddy, like analyze the alignments of other people in the game. Oh, well, it was worth a try.


Well, I don't plan on being lynched here. Do you usually try and scumhunt by talking in many hypothetical situations?


Pro-town behavior would be for you to be willing to comment on other people in the game. If you're just THAT sure that everyone else is town, then say so. If you're not, then say that.
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Post Post #1572 (ISO) » Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:25 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

ToastyToast wrote:
Magister Ludi wrote:
Mod: Prod on Toasty and CTD

V/LA YOU

And reading this makes it a clear 1v1 between yosarian and Hydra.
Which one claimed bulletproof again?


No one claimed bulletproof. I assumed the vig was going to shoot Hydra last night, so when the day started and there wasn't a vig kill even though the scum roleblocker was dead, I was thinking that Hydra was probably a bulletproof godfather. As it turned out, the vig had just ran out of shots.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #1573 (ISO) » Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:34 am

Post by Iecerint »

I am prepared to put Hydra at L-1. I am giving CTD and TT a chance to protest or request time.
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Post Post #1574 (ISO) » Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:08 am

Post by Hydra »

huh, why? What is making you think I am scum here?

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