I am going to analyze all of Zepher's post. Yes, I said all of them. I am also going to include the last 2 posts by Swag before he was force replaced as I feel they are pretty important too.
Shall we begin?
Swag136 wrote:
Parabollocks wrote:Could you give your reasons?
both me and hiraki.
Well Hiraki I was kind of following Idher, but I realize he isn't scum, and do you really need an explanation?
Swag admits to sheeping a now confirmed town player. No other reasons for his suspicions other than following a town player and then trying to use rhetoric to explain his suspicion of Parabollocks. Parabollocks for a while was the biggest wagon and Swag seems perfectly content with edging that wagon on. In fact, in his next post, he goes beyond the uselessness of this post and votes Para!
Swag136 wrote:Para, you've made a lot of unbiased posts, and not very smart moves. You're trying to cover yourself up too hard. Obvious scum is obvious. VOTE: Parabollocks
Um, what? Para was flailing town and was actively trying to scumhunt. Swag is trying to make out that his wagon was more than flailing town and implies that he is scum trying to cover himself. Very little reasoning, and he never explains what reasoning he did give. This post is clearly bandwagoning on the biggest wagon at the time.
Now onto Zepher!
First things first. When you have less posts than the moderator... you're doing something wrong. His post count ALONE shows that Zepher is an active lurker and his posts along with my analysis will bolster this claim.
MrZepher wrote:Hey guys, sorry I've been at a camp all day.
I've been busy all week so I'm going to speed read through this ASAP to make sure I have everything down.
I'll post content as soon as I do that
His replace in post. Nothing wrong with this, after all, he has a busy life and just replaced into a game.
MrZepher wrote:JK. I'll have to post tomorrow.
I'm fucking exhausted and can't retain the information I feel I should be retaining.
I think I have a couple of reads but they're strange and either I don't want to attempt to explain them half-mindedy and risk misrepresenting my own opinions,
Or posting and then realizing that I wasn't seeing anything of what I was seeing.
(I see mastin is in this game (OH HAY), he should understand the importance of being coherent while attempting to post more than anybody else I know)
tl;dr: I'm going to bed. I'll post tomorrow. Chao.
First failed commitment.
He goes on to explain why he has not provided us with any comments stating that he is exhausted from his day and doesn't feel like he is reading this game correctly. Fine, I can understand that. However, blatantly withholding his reads because he feels like he will get flack for them is overly cautious. Townies can reason with a whole lot more leeway. Zepher is acting like he doesn't have this leeway. I wonder why?
Then he goes and buddies up to Mastin. Potential plan from the beginning? Perhaps.
MrZepher wrote:
unvote
didn't realize I was voting
Sorry guys, just woke up.
get on it now.
I HAS ALL THE BEING BEHIND IN EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW.
What the hell is this supposed to mean. More fluff that doesn't contribute anything other than the fact that he may not like his predecessor's vote. 3rd post promising content and none has been supplied so far.
MrZepher wrote:I'll save my reads for tomorrow since it's almost deadline.
Some points still relevant to today:
Interesting vig claim,
I'm excited to see mastin, but it's unfortunate that he's replacing a slot that I have no reason to believe is town.
Idher's play is interesting in a bad way
Hiraki and KKC are okay
Swag is not a good vig
Actually upon further (ISO) analysis I'm going to change that to Hiraki needs to be the vig
KKC would make me sad in the pants because I would have to work to get Hiraki the rope tomorrow.
Also, I'm okay with an Untrod lynch.
The flip will help my reads, plus he hasn't said much of anything useful in terms of playing like town.
Vote: Untrod Tripod
Save your reads so you can see who is dead or alive tomorrow? Gotcha. You have promised content and this is not content. This is a summary of minor points in the game and you holding back your reads because it is so close to deadline screams, I want to see who will be or alive tomorrow so I can adjust my reads accordingly.
His opinion on Empking's claim? Interesting. That is it. It is merely interesting. He goes on to say that Idher's play is interesting in a bad way, yet he doesn't explain why either are
interesting
. Scum faking content when he realized he needed to post something? Definitely.
Hiraki and KKC are okay. Okay. Okay, for what? For a vig shot, they are okay as in townie? And of course you wouldn't want Swag to get vigged, but you give no other reason other than saying it isn't a good vig shot.
Then he goes with stream of consciousness and deliberately changes his opinion on Hiraki (he will do the same for me and KoC in the future btw when we are both "townier than null"). He gives no reasons as to why Hiraki would be a good vig shot other than after looking at his iso, he thinks Hiraki is a good shot.
He makes a childish comment saying that if KKC (pretty sure this is KKB) will be a bad vig shot because he will then have to work to get Hiraki lynched. Oh, he will actually have to do something for the first time in this game. GREAT!
He is okay with an Untrod lynch. For what reason? He never explains ANYTHING and he says the reason that Untrod is a good lynch is the fact that it will help his reads. Newsflash buddy, what fucking reads will it help? How are we supposed to know what it will help and what it won't help? Zepher at this point, is bullshit and is only getting scummier by the minute.
MrZepher wrote:
Îdher wrote:
Zepher: Why are you saving your reads? What possible benefit is there for that?
Because we won't get anywhere right now if I post them and we decide to go with them (not saying that we will, I don't feel like we have the discussion time to deal with them right now). I'm not even that entirely confident with them, this game is so weird.
I'd rather be in a position where I'm more confident in my reads, and we have a flip to help me with that before I put them up.
It saves from distraction where there would be no use for me to put them up now.
It'd be wasted effort on my end since my reads WILL change over the course of the night phase anyways.
They will change over the course of the night? OF COURSE they will. That is no reason to be scared and cautious about not posting your reads. You give a half assed answer to not posting your reads stating the obvious (they will change) and acting really paranoid. Reads are going to change. It is a fact of the game. Why be so scared about it? You just want help from your scum buddies in the QT seeing as you are the most important member of their team, the Bookie.
MrZepher wrote:Null leaning town (actually a little more than leaning). Why?
I mean, he's playing strange, but it's consistent weirdness that I'm blaming on his posting style.
He's playing town enough for me to pass him off for today's lynch, at least until he says something I can't ignore and I double that's going to happen within the next....
20 hours?
PREDIT:
UGH. Fine. Making me waste my time...
Spoiler: Watch List
Main watch list
Dramonic - Null leaning scum
Mastin2 - Probably Scum (Ythan vs Ethos conflict)
KKB - Scum (Is null, but gut makes it lean scum.)
Idher - Null leaning scum (gut read mostly, I find some of their posts strange, but I can't be fucked to find them as of this post)
Hiraki - Scum (Hasn't said anything usefull)
Ethos - Probably town (Ythan vs Ethos conflict)
Empking(as of the vig claim)- Null, leaning somewhere (as of vig claim, WAS just null).
Secondary watch list
Untrod - Scum
KoC - Already listed
Yosarian2 - Null leaning scum, may change
T-Bone - Null
Passing Glance
Sapo - Null leaning town
Spyrex - Town
Chair - Town
Oversoul - Null, newb town
Kunkstar - Null
The watch list goes as thus
Main list: People who that I'm closely watching everything they do/say.
Secondary list: People who I'm paying attention to, but more in terms of how the interact with others
Passing: People who I'm not paying much attention to because they've played town enough; this can change at any point
Also this is a new system for me; I know it's flawed, It's just a system of organization so if it bothers you for whatever reason, take it with a grain of salt.
THe first part of this post is in reference to KoC in a question that Ethos asked. He also makes a prediction that KoC will indubitably make a comment that he cannot ignore and will change Zepher's opinion on KoC. Why are you setting things up so early, Zepher? He doesn't give any real reason for his opinion on Zepher other than his posting style... stop providing no content.
Oh, you did, but you did it begrudgingly. And you actually had to work! WOW!
Notice his little warning after his reads, clearly a message to say that he is not liable for any misgivings. Planning, overcautious, fake, take your pick this post is it.
He has Untrod as scum in this read without any other indication that he thought Untrod was scum other than that his flip will help his reads and that he agreed with an Untrod lynch. Wagon hopper much? Also, perhaps the most damning aspect of his post is the fact that he listed all three masons as a different read. THIS CLEARLY SHOWS THAT ZEPHER IS NOT ACTIVELY READING THE THREAD AND IS JUST MAKING SHIT UP.
Also note how all of his reads at this stage of the game are the opposite for where we are now. The reasoning for most of his null/scum reads? Gut. Great reason. Just gut. My favorite read? The null leaning somewhere read on Empking. What is that supposed to say to us? We cannot read your mind and the vig claim should have at least put Empking at null leaning town. Wait, let me guess, you want to wait until tomorrow to see how your reads will change?
Also interesting is that he has Spyrex as town. Now, I wouldn't mind this as Spyrex was kinda towny at this point, but for his position in the whole Ythan vs Ethos conflict, it would make Spyrex scum (he has Mastin/Ythan as scum because of that conflict and Ethos as town). Interesting... oh wait. I am turning into him.
MrZepher wrote:I only caught one of the Mason claims (T-Bone), so I wasn't sure who all was claiming.
Thanks for clearing that up though.
(I did read the thread, but I was doing this weird half/skim thing once my reads started kind of settling)
Besides, Masons are a POSSIBLE role. Obviously I'm still going to be paying attention to what you guys are posting until one of you flips. Duh.
Um, no? You admit to not reading the thread. You don't care about this game and your posts reflect it. You are putting little to no effort into this game at this point and you just expect us to know that. Give me a freaking break. Why don't you have Empking as more than just null leaning somewhere since Vig is a POSSIBLE role? You really think that the whole scum would have made a gambit to out themselves as a 3 person mason group?
MrZepher wrote:That was a mistake on my part missing that, and I'll have that figured out shortly.
T-bone was null because I didn't know who he was masons with, so I wasn't sure how to take it.
Backpedaling after his mistake. Nice. Ya, I don't know what to make of a mason claim either other than... oh wait, with the way they have been playing they are probably town.
MrZepher wrote:I trust the mason claim, at least until I have justified reason to believe otherwise.
I feel like Dram could actually contribute though.
Oh, you trust the mason claim now? Okay. After you had botched reads that someone pointed out to you? Really nice backpedal. Your comment about Dram? Well, it involves a little story about this pot and a kettle. Maybe for another day.
MrZepher wrote:ho shi---
I seemed to have forgotten about the existence of this game over the course of this night phase...
That being said, I feel like I can give Emp BoD in not submitting the kill.
As per my negligence to do so prior to the day I'll have to reread during my
V/LA: This weekend from Friday to Monday
catch the discounts while they're hot zzzzzz
Yet another promise to reread this game (which you obviously have NOT been doing) and a grand ass distancing attempt.
Scummy thing number 1), trusting Empking to not submit the kill, yet not trusting the Mason group for claiming? YA WTF IS THAT
Scummy thing number 2), what need was there to say you forgot about this game other than distancing. Scum only have one role that actually does something during the night and that is the Bookie role. You are (now clearly) distancing yourself from the role of Bookie itself so early in the game.
Yay more inactivity from Zepher! yay!!
MrZepher wrote:
Hiraki wrote:Just checking, thanks.
I mean it's not like we have a list of the role PMs that went out or anything...
Oh wait.
This is your first post after you promised to reread on a 5 day Vacation. Massively underwhelming don't you think? Aside from the snarkey attitude, this post does nothing and looks like an attempt to actually contribute.
MrZepher wrote:that's a little less than 5.5:1 scum to town, how is that LYLO?
Silly goose.
I find Yos' slip damning, and Idher's potential chainsaw damning.
Sorry I've been gone. Fun weekend; totally worth it.
I'm almost too lazy to look for questions directed at me. Rereading shortly.
You find those things damning, yet give no reason as to why they are damning? Cool. You are just looking to jump onto the Para wagon that your predecessor had hoped would succeed. You also are trying to plant the seed of doubt into everyone's mind about Idher, which for the most part was a very towny person.
You are "almost" too lazy? Ok. And why are you rereading now when you promised to do so over your V/LA?
Entering theory world
This isn't really related to Zepher perse, just me thinking about something Mastin said.
Mastin, you said that Swag's eagerness to start the game with his "/confirm!" post says that he is towny. With the only role that is left, Bookie, I can see why he would be eager to start this game. He gives no indication that he is eager to play this particular flavor, because, there isn't any flavor. And he doesn't give any particular reason to play this game because of the playerlist. Unless you think he was very happy to be a vanilla towny like Zepher has claimed, I am doubting the eagerness is because he was actually eager. It had to be about his role.
MrZepher wrote:Weird how the very first thing I see when I check in is a vote on me, interesting.
I said POTENTIAL chainsaw, meaning it only means something to me if/when Yos flips scum.
I "avoided" the Empking wagon while I was around because it seemed silly to lynch somebody who obviously (at this point) had a bookie on them.
I'm currently re-reading because I honestly have barely any idea of wtf is going on, and I'm disinclined to start making arguments without educating myself on the happenings of the game.
I'm going to have to fight an uphill battle trying to convince all of you I'm town purely because of Swag's terribad play, and I already realize that my continued absence during the game doesn't help at all.
Also, I don't feel at that Idher is obv town at all, so it's weird that you say that.
I'm at work right now, and can continue my re-read later, so if you don't mind...
Again with that interesting bullshit. God. I don't understand his point about the potential chainsaw as I don't know the specifics to a chainsaw gambit. If anyone could clarify that for me, it would be greatly appreciated.
Why would you put avoid in quotation marks? You didn't "avoid" you avoided. Cognitive Disonance? Also, he contributes nothing new here as the possibility of Empking being Bookied was brought up before anyway. He gives us another promise to reread. Zepher how many times have you reread this damn game? I am going to assume a lot with how many times you say you will reread, but your posts are massively disappointing with how many times you have supposedly reread this game.
You are damn right you are going to have an uphill battle. This is the first time you address Swag and you again state the obvious that his play was bad. We all know that his play was bad. He barely contributed anything and the same could be said for you at this point. You are a spouting regurgitation with all of your reads.
He continues his Idher suspicion but never really clarifies why he feels that Idher is not town and he says it is weird that someone would call someone else obvtown when... I am pretty sure 2 people had done the same for me. Why are they not suspicious/weird for calling me obvtown?
MrZepher wrote:To be fair, it's a gut thing. Idher's posts just seem strange.
A lot of the things in this game seem strange right now; hence why I'm making the effort to read it again.
I thought I had posted about my disinterest in voting Empking. Apparently I didn't.
My defense becomes moot.
Day 1 I didn't exactly want to kill the claimed vig, Idk who would honestly. It's not good form to lynch claimed PR's day 1.
Day 2 I gave him the benefit of the doubt (BoD) in not submitting an action because I've actually done that before, but that was only supposed to be a temporary place for me to sit on the matter. I would have rather tried to find other scum in that instance (despite my signature lol) considering the high likelihood of losing 2 town players.
Also, if you recall when I replaced in, it was close to the end of Day 1 (whether I had a choice in that or not is questionable) scumhunting wasn't exactly an option that close to the deadline; I had to decide whether I thought UT was scum or not; he seemed a better choice at the time than Emp or Yos (and obv no lynch wasn't going to happen, nor was it a viable option)
I went V/LA shortly after Day 2 began, before I could involve myself in any discussion; only being able to check in for 2-3 minutes at a time and having to monitor 2-3 games made it difficult to try to post, so I opted to lurk and try to post when I got back thinking it would still be day 2. It's day 3 obviously and I don't have shit compared to the flips and whatnot, so I need to rework some things.
For once I'm gonna have to bust out the pencil and paper. I'm playing so fantastically this game, if you can't already tell /sarcasm.
Yay. More unsubstantiated reasoning behind Zepher's reads. At least he comes clean that he was basically not paying attention to this game, but it took some goading to get this answer out of him. Scumhunting wasn't an option? Are you kidding? Scumhunting is always an option. It doesn't matter entirely when you are wrong if you are town, but you do seem to care.
He makes a different promise, busting outing the pen and paper, for whatever reason, but so far all of his promises have fallen flat on their faces. Useless fluff post that does nothing for the game other than show that Zepher is digging in and getting defensive.
MrZepher wrote:Stopped at Page 20. Decided I should start writing notes and had to go back to get post numbers and such. Plus I'm a busy guy.
I'M WRITING FUCKING NOTES WTF///
anyways, there's a large wall incoming, hopefully a vote, but I'd rather discuss first since it's like 3 people I could put my vote on at any given time
Wall should be up sometime tomorrow evening/night.
I can't post from work anymore; I actually got in trouble today for that so.....
Excuses, excuses.
Contributes nothing and continues on that trend of wanting and promising to give information, but he hasn't. In this case he can't because, well he is at work and already got in trouble for posting stuff. He makes a bold statement promising a wall that well, is long overdue for the amount of promises and rereads he has done. Again, this post offers literally nothing to the game and each time he posts this I am beginning to think it is a prod dodge.
MrZepher wrote:NOT BEFORE I GET MY WALL UP. FOOL.
I'm not missing out on another day lol.
For the record, I disagree with a chair lynch.
He takes a stance on the Chair lynch saying that his wall is coming. I actually expect him to produce some form of a wall, because well, it would be suicide to say "My wall is coming" and have it never show up. Still little value in this post.
MrZepher wrote:!~//
WALL.
//~!
Scum: Saporovirus, Mastin, Yosarian
Other scum: Kanye, Idher, Kunkstar
Null: Spyrex, Chair
Townier than null: KoC, Oversoul
The following explanations are in ISO format, purely because it was easier to actively form my thoughts that way.
These are the notes that I basically just copy pasted from MS Word and edited a little so they don't look like a mess.
There are real post numbers in the ISO now so I didn't wanna garble up my notes with links and whatnot.
Spoiler:
Saporovirus
(The mask)
• #349 Just comes off as scummy to me. I don’t see very many town implications for just hopping in and voting somebody and not at all commenting on what’s just happened.
• #446 Sapo replaces in.
• #452-455 Fluff? Check. Scum-hunting? Definitely absent.
• #539 seems to be :goodposting:
• #540 on the other hand is not
• #632 Uhm what? I think you forgot to post your reasoning for that vote.
Mastin2
(ythan)
• #148 Twisting Para’s post to make it seem scummier than it really was
• #158 no explanation? Okay.
• Ethos vs Ythan was not TvT. At this point, with Ythan’s approach to that argument and what in my opinion looked like intentional instigating (wrong word but w/e) I’d suffer to say Ythan is on the scum half of the argument.
• #484 (Yosarian) This basically points out one of the reasons why I don’t think Ythan/Ethos’ exchange was TvT; Ythan responds to/defends from this very poorly.
• #581 Ythan making Ethos’ claim look scummy is noted
• #656 This looks bad on Ythan.
• #666 is poor defending
• #667 is OMGUS
• YAY MASTIN REPLACES IN NOW. This re-read became significantly less abrasive.
• I feel like Mastin has been awfully quiet this game, but he’s also been quite V/LA soooo…. /null opinion
Knight of Cydonia
• #350 Wall that I didn’t bother to read. Skim says it agrees with me at least somewhat; end with a Para vote which I can’t argue with currently…
KanyeKnowsBest
• #159 No reason as to why ythan is town? Okay. @Para, if it look like a duck and it sounds like a duck….
• #318 Town boner for Ythan... right; Also it’s not town to try to justify fluff. Who the fuck does that? Oh noes he got mad because he’s early, is he scum because he thought he could suffer through a little more (You totally misrep that whole thing for no reason)
• I agree meta arguments are generally bad.
• #430 :goodposting: town points, but this is one of very few.
Idher
• Comments on the validity of wagons without actually ever giving reasoning; defended parabollocks very early (as soon as the wagon started picking up day 1)
• Pushing really hard on Hiraki scum… what for?
• #153 town points for explaining Hiraki scum
• #449 uhhhhhhh yeah. This doesn’t look good on idher.
• #534 Not explaining any of the statements in this post is noted, especially since Idher is soft defending flipped scum.
• #626 Not sure how to take this post. It was correct, but it can also come from role fishing scum. It’s a null point currently until I figure it out.
• #833 Setup speculation based on mod meta? Hmmmmm, not sure if I feel like this a viable thing to base opinions off of…
• #930 I just realized that I find Idher’s “matter of fact” way of posting to come off as very scummy when it lacks definite explanations.
SpyreX
• Decent points throughout the game for town points; but I disagree with quite a few.
• Took Ythan’s side during the argument; but I can see town doing that as well.
• I can’t tell where he fit into the Ythan v Ethos argument; hence why he sits null.
• #635 Same opinion as Idher’s #626
• #671 suggest that SpyreX could be scum with Ythan/Mastin
Chair
• Chairs just sit there. Can’t put a read on inanimate object.
jk
Chair is surprisingly…. Null…. Not too townie but not scummy… hmmmm
Oversoul
• Null tells all over his ISO that I can’t be bothered to post right now; giving him the benefit of the doubt as his being a noob, but even then hasn’t done anything outstandingly scummy compared to other players
• The “HA I started the Idher wagon” thing is a null tell at best; I don’t understand how people can take it otherwise.
Kunkstar7
• Page 15 and NOTHING from Kunk. Nice.
• #405 uhhhhh…. :safeposting:?
• #481 Seems town to me +town points
Yosarian2
(Parabollocks)
• #74 Parabollocks pull out of RVS by saying Ythan is trying to hard, obviously stretching where it wasn’t necessary
• #81 When that doesn’t go well he blames it on bad reaction fishing, and then changes his vote
• #84 Gives bad reasoning for voting for Oversoul
• #123 Bone calls out para’s actions, para proceeds to have nothing to say.
• #140/#142 fluff
• #344 lists Ythan and Idher as town…. Interesting… Kanye as scum… hmmmmm
• #352 Obvious OMGUS is obvious, immediately followed by terribad defense of said OMGUS, which get called out later.
• Para replaces out. Cool.
•
Yosarian2 #431 wrote:Ok, so why are you voting me? The guy I replaced was an idiot, but he wasn't scum.
lol. I know this feeling….
• #484 I like this post.
• #920 Hiraki was so obviously NOT town. I have no idea why you’d say that.
Any questions?
He finally posts his wall. :cries: Thank goodness.
Judging from his reads he has literally no correct scum reads except for Sapo. I like how he has both KoC and I as townier than null, yet proceeds to vote both of us in late game with out any valid reasoning. His reasoning for Sapo is annoying. I hate it when people just list the post number and make YOU look for the reason why it is a bad or a good post. That seems counter productive for a town person to do and is definitely harder for people to read the reasoning as to why someone is scummy. A definite sign of his laziness that he publicly admitted when it came to this game.
His reasoning for saying people are scummy and what not is going along with the curve. He calls Ythan out for his accusations against Ethos and Para, but again, all of this has been said before. There are very few original opinions in his reads. I can give him the benefit of the doubt because that usually happens when you are behind with reads as people will point out the same things before you, but his promises are long overdue. All of his explanations for his reads are one liners to things and like I said, they weren't original one liners. Definitely looks like he is trying to coast throughout the game.
MrZepher wrote:
Knight of Cydonia wrote:Uh, yeah. I have 30 posts in this thread. You picked out a whole 1 in your ISO. Really?
Reeeally?
I read through the game and picked out things that stood out to me.
To be honest I wasn't giving too much attention to you since you were a town read early on.
You haven't said anything particularly scummy and you're making an obvious effort to scumhunt.
Mind telling me what exactly makes my wall "stink of skimming".
And it's at the town's best efforts to try to :goodpost:, it's not my say whether I did or not in my post.
What the fuck. I can't even be fucked to read anymore of Zepher's posting. After getting to endgame with him it is obvious that he is scum. Everyone, I encourage you to read Zepher's iso and see the coasting, lurking, skimming, not scumhunting, etc. ZEPHER'S POST REEK OF IT.
Noted that he has a town read on KoC at this point and that he recognizes KoC is scumhunting. I can't say the same for Zepher at this point.
The question he asks KoC is blatantly fishing for pointers in order to change his wall next time (I don't think he ever posts another wall?).
He gives a vague answer to another post about :goodposting:. What the fuck is that? What makes a post a :goodpost:? You never clarify really or answer that question directly.
MrZepher wrote:
Yosarian2 wrote:
Um, he was town. He's dead, we know his alignment. Also, I was saying he was town all game, it was pretty clear from his posting.
I guess that you missed how that was supposed to be a past tense statement. Hiraki had a pretty crappy way of playing town. I think it was an awesome vig shot.
It wouldn't have been beneficial for town to have him in a LYLO situation anyways.
Yosarian2 wrote:
Anyway, it's bizzare that you would do an ISO on me and then not mention all the actual important stuff I did, like how when I replaced in I was at lynch -2, and I defended the other main suspect (Ethos, town), the #3 suspect (Hiraki, town), and instead went after Quilford (scum) who only had one vote on him at a time. You know, the stuff that townies actually look at when they're trying to figure out someone's alignment, like how did they intearact with known scum, how did they react under pressure, did their actions seem to be pro-town or anti-town, ect.
How is your slot being at L-2 supposed to matter to me when I think you're scum? As far as I'm concerned you should have been lynched already.
Defending Ethos could have just as easily been scum defending town to look more town when the person they're defending flips town.
Though I suppose it would look worse had you started defending AFTER Ethos claimed mason. Noted.
Yosarian2 wrote:
It wouldn't be so bad if you looked at all that and then created a case that I was distancing or something, but it seems like you just skimmed through my posts, ignored everything that actually mattered, picked out a few things you could attack me on, and then called me scum.
Finding scum does matter. As far as I'm concerned I have a good chance at having found scum.
Yosarian2 wrote:
The rest of your post is pretty terrible, too. The day 1 scum wagon on Empking that forced him into a bad claim was pushed by Îdher, me, Saporovirus, and kunkstar7, and you just called ALL of us scum, which is just beyond absurd. You didn't even mention the day 1 quilford/ empking wagon in ANY of your ISO analysis. What kind of townie tries to read and analyze the whole game but ignores the sucessfull wagon-to-a-claim made against a scum?
Yeah.... that's a fail on my part. Sorry.
On further analysis:
Kunk- voted Empking only; from what I see he didn't actually push anything. He didn't even post a reason for voting Empking.
Sapo- tried to start a wagon on Empking but didn't even vote until after he claimed. Didn't even originally post a reason with suspecting Empking from what I see.
Idher- Came in asking why Empking wasn't dead yet; didn't say anything until after Emp claimed, and chose to agree with it.
Yos- You only voted Empking as filler until you could attack Ythan's slot again. You originally stated some decent reasoning for your vote on Quilford, then didn't pursue it afterwards.
I see no obvious town tells in this.
I actually agree with Zepher on the Hiraki shot. He does have a weird way of playing. From a game that I was scum with Hiraki, he seemed to be playing the same way and that is why I wanted Hiraki to get shot.
The second quote he asks a dumb question.. If Yosarian truly was scum he would not have risked his life (being at L-2) to defend another popular lynch candidate as it would look scummy. It is funny how you automatically assume that Yos is scum especially given the fact that you only focused on the bad aspects, as Yos said, of Para/Yos.
"Ya, sorry, forgot about that..." Are you kidding me!? How do you forget something like that? You clearly do not have your head in the game because you are not trying to hunt for scum. You are faking your reads and you are lurking. You get mad that Yos had a filler vote and yet you forget something as important as analyzing the people on the Empking wagon? Are you serious? If Yos thought that Hiraki and Ethos were town wouldn't it make sense for him to go against the person who stated that Ethos wasn't town?
You don't see any obvious town tells, but I don't see any scum tells. Now that I have hindsight I can see why those people acted the way they did, but I guess that skews my view right now. :\
MrZepher wrote:lol
Scum: Most scummy
Other scum: Slightly less scummy
Sorry, I felt like I was being clever; I guess I should have clarified better.
Fluff. Again. For the umpteenth time.
MrZepher wrote:I'm alive.
Will post content shortly?
Another distancing attempt trying to look surprised that he is alive. You messed up your punctuation though.
Also, why is you posting content in question and your life not? Cognitive Dissonance.
MrZepher wrote:First things first, I realized during work today that my read on Yos was entirely confirmation bias based on Para's completely anti-town behavior.
I'm reconsidering his read. For now he sits null, and quite frankly makes some things look a lot better.
Ludi apparently doesn't have any reason to think I'm scum so Kanye's willingness to sheep sans the vote seems scummy.
Will be looking into this.
Mastin seems to be playing like town Mastin..... Still debating as to whether or not this is a good thing, but I appreciate that he's able to read me better than anybody else here.
NOW you reconsider Yos's alignment. Okay. He takes all of the I think Zepher is town with joy and accepts that hoping to ride that towniness. What was wrong when I did that when you do it right here, Zepher?
MrZepher wrote:
Magister Ludi wrote:Why are we still arguing about whether or not to lynch empking yesterday which seems to have no value in finding scum today.
MrZepher is scum. Ask if you want cool cat reasons.
The fact that you didn't give your reasoning when you voted and you didn't give reasons after only tells me that you were only stalling so you could try to scrounge up some forlorn case to paint me as scum
.
Right.
At this point I know that you either
1. Don't have a case
2. Don't have a very good case
That really wouldn't bother me if it weren't the fact that you're trying to cook up a wagon under me on top of that.
tl;dr Ludi is scum.
In terms of other things being talked about in recent pages,
I'm okay with a Sapo lynch; Her ISO is filled with fluff, one-liners, and votes without reasoning.
I see no reason to think play like that comes from town.
I'm not sure about the Chair lynch; I may not be understanding the points against him.
Bolded = the little Pot and the little Kettle story.
He is willing to say that Ludi is scum after saying that he thinks KoC is town because Ludi is trying to get a wagon started on him. OMGUS anyone? Come to think of it. You used this reason to paint Yos/Para as scummy because Para used OMGUS. WOW. Did I tell you guys about the Pot and the Kettle yet? No? Well it is right there.
He still holds his distant opinion on a chair lynch, but expresses interest in a lynch if someone can point out valid points against him. He is legitimately going after Sapo and she was legitimately scummy, but I feel like he is going after another scummy towny like he was going after Para/Yos.
MrZepher wrote:
SpyreX wrote:....
All those good Zeph feelings? Gone.
I was like... what?
Then I realized it's probably because I'm wary of the Chair wagon.
I'm reading through your little interaction and both of your ISO's.
I was just making it known that apprehensive zephyr is apprehensive.
Spryex coaching Zepher? I think so. Zepher at this point is less useful than Spyrex. No one has really expressed interest for Spyrex in my opinion and Zepher already used his ability on the Empking bookie shot so he is basically a goon now.
Spyrex's interaction with Zepher here could be damning and I think Spyrex was trying to lead people into a Zepher lynch later on with the claim to say "Ha, I knew there was something suspicious about his play!" /tinfoil
Although, in this post it looks like he is going to vote Chair anyway especially after Spyrex called him out. Good guess on why you thought Spyrex was suspicious of you, though.
MrZepher wrote:I mean if this isn't proof enough that he wants me lynched, then IDK what's going to convince you.
It wouldn't seem scummy to me if he didn't keep holding out his reasons to say I'm scum,
I understand that there's a little bit of OMGUS in that, but still, it doesn't change the fact that it's scummy.
I have Sapo listed as scummy for (partially) the same reason, so I don't understand what's so different here Spyrex.
Am I missing something there? Does that solve your qualms?
In the meantime I'll just leave this here.
Vote: Saporovirus
I've already previously stated my reasoning for thinking Sapo is scum.
Also she hasn't posted in forever I don't think...
Finally puts his money where his mouth is with regards to Sapo. He again expresses concern about Ludi being scummy saying that Ludi's tunneling is what makes him scummy. Withholding reasons that you are scummy? No. Using reasons that you don't think paint you as scummy? Yes. Misrep.
More Spyrex interaction trying to get Spyrex off a Chair wagon and onto a legitimiately scummy player's wagon.
Why isn't Mastin's tunneling of Ludi indicative that he is scum, Zepher?
MrZepher wrote:ALSO:
V/LA Till whenever this Sunday is.
Yay....
MrZepher wrote:
SpyreX wrote:The fact that you're still a fresh enough young buck that literally going you're voting for me thus scum is, in fact, scummy as all getout.
That fine, I understand that, but not exactly what I'm saying.
I'm saying it's only scummy because he has yet to post any sort of valid reason to have a vote on me.
It's like me putting on a vote on you and saying
"I have my reasons"
Does that not seem at all odd to you?
I definitely think that Spyrex was attempting to bus Zepher here and that is not what happened with regards to Ludi and his votes for you, Zepher.
You don't think his reasons are valid? Oh, they are automatically scummy for posting invalid reasons. Ok. Well, sorry to break it to you, but town are going to post invalid reasons to vote for people all the time. Why this surprises you is beyond me and you are getting defensive again.
1120 is too big and confusing for me to look at with all of the quotes.
Just realized that Ludi is bringing up the same points and since Ludi isn't scum I feel more confident in Zepher scum now.
Your lighthearted bit in that post strikes me as odd, how are we supposed to perceive tone and other indicators of a joking manner? We can't. This is text. It is best to be as straightforward as you can. I am probably going to be hit with the same reasons that Ludi is scum by Zepher, but I feel I have brought up some new points.
Also, you did mention that your predecessor was scummy, but only in passing. You literally made one comment that was 2 lines long among other information and you are using that against Ludi? Forgive him if he forgot since you seem to forget a lot of things as well. Tl;dr for that part of 1120? Pot - Kettle.
MrZepher wrote:
mastin2 wrote:Why do you think I tend not to bother making them, anymore?
(I really do hate building walls.)
You just trolled anyone you've ever played in a game with ever.
I lol'd
//obvious fluff
At this point in the game I think fluff should be out of the question yet he is content with posting it as long as he points it out. Definitely a prepared defense of his actions.
MrZepher wrote:
1. Spyrex isn't on your list... >.>
2. I don't find Sapo's being willing to relook at Ythan scummy in and of itself. People have a right to change opinions, or be willing to double check if something seems off.
PREDIT'd.
Then why the fuck was there a problem with you and posting your reads when you first came in? Seriously. If you don't find it scummy that people can change their reads or that reads do change, why the fuck didn't you post your reads when people asked you to. This is a stark change in opinion and play AFTER Empking was bookied. He has not fear anymore because he is basically a goon now and he served his team well with the extra kill.
MrZepher wrote:Checking back in.
Will /realpost later.
Good to know. Blatant prod/activity dodge.
MrZepher wrote:I hope Ludi at some point realizes that he's starting to tunnel me a bit.
At least Yos has a reason to think I'm scum, and he was rational enough to realize that there's not enough support for a zepher lynch today.
TBH I still haven't reviewed much of this Chair case.
I will say that I don't find a lack of towntells incriminating on Day 3.
Will examine that cases presented when I stop being so damn busy with my life zzzzzzzz
SpyreX and his bookie shenanigans are.... not coming off as towny....
Also,
Unvote: Lady Lambdadelta
I should have done that earlier; I thought I did.
Yay more laziness and he is still content with posting fluff. He does some mild bussing here with Spyrex, but never really gets into the reasons as usual.
He acts hypocritical with calling Ludi a tunneler and then remaining silent when Mastin does it right back to Ludi later in the game. He still hasn't reviewed the Chair case when he made two posts about not liking it and implying that he would? HE STILL ISN'T PAYING ATTENTION TO THE THREAD GUYS.
He unvotes Sapo's slot and recognizes that he forgot to unvote it.
He is purposely putting these stream of conscious remarks into the thread so people will feel comfortable with him and his actions. If he truly was towny he would not need to prepare these defenses ahead of time as he would have nothing to fear in terms of suspicion.
MrZepher wrote:Wait, where did Mastin call LL scum?
What I got out of it is that he sees Kunkstar scum
I could be blatantly missing something though.
It wouldn't surprise me either bud. Fluffernutter.
MrZepher wrote:Wut.
The way I read it, if that wasn't a TvT interaction that's all on Kunk.
He isn't paying attention and clearly misread and misinterpreted Mastin's post. He tries to put scumminess on the most scummy towny, which at this point was Kunk EVEN THOUGH HE HAD A HARD ON EARLIER FOR SAPO/LLD.
MrZepher wrote:
Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Also... SpyreX is suspiciously missing from that list.
If you think this is a scum tell, then you're NOT reading things in context.
Fix that.
He already corrected the SpyreX thing.
Also, why are we voting Kanye right out of the night phase?
Oh there is the hard on for LLD. From LLD and Spyrex's flip that post looks like LLD is trying to pander off an Oversoul-Spyrex team, which is what I thought Zepher was going to do but he defended me here. Pretty sure this is his first post in reference to me since his wall post.
MrZepher wrote:Wait, wait wait.
So what do we do if Ludi flips town?
Tomorrow Mastin's going to go after SpyreX with some ridiculousness that says "Oh well SpyreX can be scum independently of Ludi" or something, and avoid the lynch on himself.
OR
There's no bookie today, so any lynch is free game BUT should we lynch either Mastin or Ludi, the other will be bookied tomorrow based off of today's gambit.
AND/OR
Mastin and SpyreX are possibly scum together.
I call scum gambit.
Vote: Mastin2
Discuss.
(also, I'm really tired, so please correct me on any flaws in this logic)
Puts a little disclaimer at the bottom so that he again, won't be suspicious for this post. He is probably not a confident scum player like Spyrex and LLD and it looks like it from his posts in comparison to theirs.
Anyway, he votes Mastin believing that this is a gambit and that Mastin will try to pull something tomorrow if Ludi flips town. Why the sudden change of heart with regards to Ludi, Zepher? You definitely felt that he was tunneling you and was scummy for it, why not just go along with it? He is trying to set up a Mastin mislynch for when Ludi DOES flip town and planted a seed of doubt into everyone's mind about the gambit that Mastin did pull. I am almost positive that the scum were blind sided by the Spyrex vig shot, I certainly was as he wasn't sticking out as scum to me. I am also pretty sure that everyone felt Zepher/Spyrex were going to be the sleeper cell scum members and the Zepher/Spyrex reactions are looking like late game bus for town cred.
MrZepher wrote:I'm a Mason. Obv. (jk)
Yaaaay magister is strawmanning my posts again
If you cared to pay attention to what I say ever, I don't have a valid argument against you.
If I did, it's purely out of OMGUS and thus why I didn't have my vote on you (for at least most of, if not all) Day 3. (OMGUS is NOT a valid reason to vote somebody. period.)
If you're going to continue to pursue me as scum, you're 1 wasting you're time because I'm a
Claim: VT
(Popcorn: Mastin)
and 2, going to need to come up with better arguments than a weak ISO skim and a bunch of strawmanning.
Unvote
Need to reassess some things here.
If you cared to pay attention to this game at all you would realize that Ludi was right. You aren't doing much of anything and I am surprised that you even lived to this far into the game. You are reusing your same arguments against Ludi stating that he has weak iso skimming when you have done that the entire game. You choose to NOT believe Ludi's claims against you and thus you think they are wrong. Try to actually defend yourself instead of attacking the person attacking you. That definitely seems like a scum tactic to make out the person who is pursuing your lynch is more lynch worthy than you and saves you the hassle of trying to defend yourself from claims that are true and that you don't have any valid reason for doing as scum.
All of Zepher's posts are coming off as premeditated especially during late game.
MrZepher wrote:
Îdher wrote:
Zephyr, why the hell are you voting for mastin?
I'm not anymore o.o...
6 hours pass and 11 new posts are added and that is all you have to say? Really.
MrZepher wrote:
Magister Ludi wrote:
Idher wrote: You're flailing SO hard right now.
No, i'm not. I think you are voting me for completely made up reasons. You are not clear at all. I would like you to bullet point, or number, in a single post, the reasons you think I am scum and the actions you think I have taken that are more likely to come from scum than town. I haven't seen anything from you, and I want it.
The irony of this post hurts me.
You still haven't contributed anything since that other horrible fluff post.
MrZepher wrote:Catching up on the last couple of pages. Content possibly after.
Why is content always a possibility with you? If you seriously cannot devote the appropriate amount of time to large don't join one, especially don't replace into one. This is just another fluff post and that is 3 in a row right now.
Content should always be on a townies mind because they have a motive to post. To kill and catch scum. Your posts lack motive. They lack activity and they are not looking for scum imo. You don't display townie traits.
MrZepher wrote:Don't see anything resembling a question I feel I need to answer at this place and time.
If you want to wagon me and then argue about whether or not Mastin can be scum independently of my flip then by all means, go ahead.
PREDIT:
With a treestump in the setup, I'd see it as more likely to have a 2-shot bookie, 2 goons and a mafia traitor on the scum side; 3 masons, a 2-shot vig and a stump and however many VTs make up the rest of the count. 3-shot bookie if there's no traitor.
I don't see how with with the the currently claimed roles you can derive that there's a rolecop. Wouldn't balance well IMO unless there was another town PR.
Tailor wouldn't exist unless there's a cop, and I have yet to find a reason to believe that there's a cop in this game.
That all being said, I don't understand why you assume that there IS a rolecop, yet none of the nightkills have flipped a PR, or some other telling reason to think that there is a PR. I'd like to know more on why you think there is one.
At the same time, I'm speculating setup which I will avoid basing an argument off of.
PREDIT PREDIT:
@SpyreX
Maybe that's what Idher wanted scum to think >.>
Remember, Vig isn't a role one of the heads isn't familiar with....
What the fuck? Why the fuck would there be a 2 shot bookie if there is a 2 shot Vig especially after Ether stated that bookie shots are not used up if they fail? That would be totally overpowered for the scum and not fair for the town at all.
You are doing some mighty fine rolefishing looking for PR that you think you might have missed and it is clearly obvious.
It is interesting that you would choose to give so much WIFOM into this set up and how accurate your prediction about the scum team is. We have a bookie, we have 2 goons, and we have a traitor. And you got mad at Ludi for possibly having insider knowledge....
More speculation and promise to do something later from you. Classic.
MrZepher wrote:Also, voting off the Mastin gambit is probably muy bueno.
Ludi is still likely scum though.
Mind explaining why you now think that the gambit is a good idea when you expressed great concern that Mastin was pulling a gambit and attached a flipped goon to Mastin when Mastin first presented the gambit? You are just happy that you get to see Ludi die because you are fearing for your life and when he does flip town you will be very happy because another towny will die with that leading to 4 deaths for scum's favor. That is why it is muy bueno.
MrZepher wrote:I'm here, but I can't post now. I caught Kanye's question.
Also, where the fuck did SpyreX get all the PoE nonsense from?
Mind explaining that a bit?
And basically confirming night kills and vig shots looks bad.
Ya. Cognitive Dissonance here. You wouldn't have to be scared of a nightkill/vig shot confirmation if you were actually town. You are again counter bussing Spyrex because he mentioned your name in another post in an act to distance yourself if Idher does choose to shoot one of you.
MrZepher wrote:
kanyeknowsbest wrote:
MrZepher wrote:And basically confirming night kills and vig shots looks bad.
what?
Poor choice of words on my part, I was tired as shit. I was talking about where he said
in SpyreX's 1526 wrote:
...
Idher is dead tonight. However, there's NOTHING that can prevent that shot. So, I say one of LLD, Zeph, Kunk get lynched and the other shot. Personal preference is LLD lynch and Zeph shot by a small margin over kunk.
...
I didn't like this, and not because It's me getting shot, it just feels like SpyreX is psuedo-starting a vigpool.
As for my reads....
uhhhh lessee
Likely Scum:
Mastin
Ludi
SpyreX - I haven't taken my own time to evaluate this. I'm taking from other people's arguments and forming an opinion here.
Maybe Scum?:
LLD
KKB
Null:
Kunkstar - Idk what it is about his claiming tree stump that I'm just like... hmmmmm.... He's more town than scum, but still.
Town:
Oversoul
Idher
Towny point for not saying that you were tired in your original post, but you still aren't town. I like how Idher is now town after you said she clearly wasn't obvtown despite many people saying that Idher was town. Also I like I how I am town here and that Spyrex is scum because of other people's opinions when you have made passing potshots at him numerous times. You are pushing the Ludi/Mastin gambit so that you can get 2 extra deaths because of the gambit and more nightkill shots.
Your null on Kunkstar...? What the fuck? Why would scum do that. It is easily verifiable and you are just trying to spread as much doubt and confusion into this game as you can in your sleepy lurky skimmy way. Definite bus on Spyrex from this post.
Also, maybe scum? for LLD when you had a very strong suspicion and even voted for her when it was Sapo? Stop the flip flopping which you have done A LOT this game.
MrZepher wrote:It's either or, I just don't want to take part in Mastin's gambit at the moment, not until I get a better sense of what's going on here.
Fluff post. Expressing concern at the gambit, yet labeling the people involved as scum? If you thought that they were scum, you would go along with it. This is also in direct contradiction to your "mastin gambit = muy bueno" post. Probably a distancing attempt, I can't tell other than that it is awkward given his previous statements about the gambit and the people involved.
MrZepher wrote:
Lady Lambdadelta wrote:
MrZepher wrote:It's either or, I just don't want to take part in Mastin's gambit at the moment, not until I get a better sense of what's going on here.
So wait.
You believe that one of Mastin and Ludi is scum. Just one.
And you want to lynch OUTSIDE the 50/50 (from your perspective) in favor of another lynch?
No, I was kind of explaining why my vote isn't on either of the two at the moment...
I'm not necessarily in favor of another lynch at the moment, I just want to make sure that I'm putting my vote on the right person, get it?
It's because of my post #1513 that you're like "wait, wut?", right?
That was in response to I believe KKB's vote on me. While I think voting off the wagon has information, I'm pretty sure ONE of the two is scum
I have no idea of which one is more likely scum. Mastin is being... Mastin.... so it's hard to tell.
I can feel how not coherent my thoughts are here.
So make them coherent? If you realize that they are not properly thought out please make them clear. All you are doing is making things confusing. Maybe you want that. Wait. You do.
You give a dumbass reason to vote one of them stating that Mastin is well being himself. What is that supposed to mean? That isn't the first time you have used that type of cop out remark either. When one of them doesn't flip scum, you were going to use this post as back up to say well the other MUST be scum and get an additional lynch and nightkill.
MrZepher wrote:
SpyreX wrote:Someone got hotfoot scoop scoop.
Unvote, Vote: Zepher
really?
I don't even have to explain how terribad this is.
Also, I asked you a question.
Not like you explain why anything else is bad anyway. Definitely thinking scum bussing from Spyrex. You like the word terribad don't you? Because everything is so obviously bad that it doesn't garner a reason to say it is bad right?
The last bit is definitely an attempt to try and look town. It failed.
MrZepher wrote:Posting to let you know I'm here.
I'll read when I get a chance. What I've skimmed is ridiculous
OH hey. I haven't seen one of these posts before. WAIT. Your iso is RIDDLED WITH THEM.
What you've skimmed is ridiculous? No, the fact that you are still skimming is ridiculous.
MrZepher wrote:Uhhhh...
I'm going to go back and look at Ludi and SpyreX
Good thing because it all leads right back to you.
This post shows that scum were not ready for Spyrex's death evidenced by the Uhh....
MrZepher wrote:Right. I was thinking at the end of the day when LLD flipped that they could have already known she was a traitor, and they were attempting to lynch her to gain town cred.
I'll look into them too.
lolWIFOMlol
how the hell would they know that? You are DELIBERATELY trying to cast doubt and suspicion on ANYONE who was on the LLD wagon. Oh wait, that includes you. You just distanced yourself from a scumspicion that you have had from the beginning of your time in this game. WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT?
MrZepher wrote:Apparently there was a rolecop in the set-up (even though I don't see how that would at all make sense)
I saying they could have rolecopped Sapo or LLD and found out lol.
WIFOMWIFOMWIFOM
I'm dancing around like a ballerina you are tiptoeing this issue so hard. This brings me into MASSIVE tinfoil/WIFOM territory though.
Ready the tinfoil!
Earlier you said that there was a 2 shot bookie, 2 goons, and a traitor with a stump, 3 man mason group, and 2-shot vigiliante. That is surprisingly accurate given that traitor still wasn't confirmed in this set up yet. A little hunch that I have is that you may have actually been a 2 shot bookie and that you gained 2 extra kills. One from the Empking wagon and one from a different wagon. Your team shot LLD and learned that she is in fact the traitor which would account for your suspiciously accurate claim and the dumb ass WIFOM bit here. Only someone with insider knowledge would make a WIFOM post like that. TOWN HAS NO WAY OF KNOWING WHETHER OR NOT AN EXTRA BOOKIE SHOT FAILED. THAT IS COGNITIVE DISSONANCE.
MrZepher wrote:I don't see a reason not to.
Fluff. Again.
MrZepher wrote:
kanyeknowsbest wrote:
if youre not convinced recall that spyrex has the opportunity to hammer ludi yesterday. lets wrap this up fellas.
I didn't notice this
Vote: Ludi
You don't notice a lot of things don't you? *sigh*
MrZepher wrote:You could do both lol
Fluffffffffffffffff
MrZepher wrote:
Vote: Ludi
More fluff.
MrZepher wrote:lol
fluff.
MrZepher wrote:Wait... that would make...
DAMMIT MASTIN.
Ludi's reasoning for this post is exactly solid. SCUM TRYING TO LOOK TOWN BY SAYING THEY ARE SAD ABOUT A MISLYNCH.
MrZepher wrote:
Magister Ludi wrote:Read for yourself. Why do you want me to hold your hand? I've already given you multitudes of reasons why each of these players are scummy and should be lynched one and then two.
I helped speed lynch LLD, who flipped mafia, and I didn't push on chair, who flipped town.
I'm not sure what mastin has done to give you a town read, but so be it. If you don't want to decide between then, lynch them both we me.
That's WIFOM bullshit. Scum could have easily done this intentionally to pull out of their pocket and we already discussed this at the beginning of the day (well not really, but it was brought up)
I'm not changing my vote Ludi. Sorry.
Vote: Ludi
WHAT? COGNITIVE DISSONANCE!! TOWN HAD NO WAY OF KNOWING WHETHER OR NOT LLD WAS ACTUALLY TOWN OR TRAITOR. You are infusing that bs reason too much for my liking and it is definitely cognitive dissonance.
MrZepher wrote:The fuck.
Quite frankly, I'm pretty sure Oversoul should be dead by now.
He's been the only close to confirmed this entire game, yet he hasn't once died.
Also, OF COURSE THE EMPKING WAGON WAS SCUM DRIVEN. IT WAS BOOKIED.
I wouldn't expect any less than every scum in the game to have been on that wagon.
It would have benefited them to distance at least a little.
Mastin is being "I just fucked up. OMG." Mastin (which means he's town), as opposed to "I messed up, BUT..." Mastin (which would mean he's scum)
They may SEEM similar, but there's a distinct difference. Town Mastin is willing to take a step back and see wtf just happened.
By what I'm going to blatantly point point out as flimsy PoE it would have to be Oversoul.
The only real super solid suspicion I have comes from SpyreX's comments blatantly calling Oversoul either fresh town, or crafty scum.
This is where I'm sitting right now.
Biggest mistake post right here. Trying to convince others of my scumminess when it is way easier to convince me of other's scumminess. I am a gullible person, but the fact that you went after me rests my case.
You are the bookie and yet you aren't on the Empking wagon. That is distancing in itself because why wouldn't a bookie bus his own target? Well, all of the scum have flipped and there is no bookie yet and you are fond of distancing as I have said.
You yourself even stated that it is flimsy PoE that it would be me. You aren't even sure it is me. Your solid suspicion is my connection with Spyrex who I called out as a possible traitor? You called me a newb town, as did many people. How would that make sense that I was crafty scum? You have gone with the grain and purposefully tried not to step on anyone's toes. You acted cautious and always gave a predetermined reason for posting the way you did. You also lurked quite a bit. You had the most to lose on the scum team as the bookie.
MrZepher wrote:I'm alive and reading what I missed
Oversoul, you can't be like
Mastin isn't town, OH [this] is helping my TOWN READ on you
OH, well Mastin COULD be confirmed town.
uhhhhhhhhhh....
I'm heavily exaggerating here, but the way you're choosing to broadcast your Mastin read (without any sort of explanations other than just blatantly saying it) comes off as kind of scummy to me.
Biggest Pot and the biggest Kettle converge. Once again. You have broadcast your feelings opinions quite a bit. Why are you all uppity when I do it?
MrZepher wrote:Doesn't look like it.
Mastin wants to do his thing, which is fine.
Seriously? Fluff in a LyLo? You could at least try to make a case against me instead of putting the veil of doubt over my head.
MrZepher wrote:When the deadline approaches 2 days, I'm voting Oversoul if we haven't reached a better conclusion.
Just throwing that out there now.
I read Mastin's post, and I'm going to try to make what I can of it when I have time.
Again. A preemptive explanation for an action. You do this a lot. It screams premeditated, planned, faked, and forced. You also are almost always strapped for time and needing to try and understand a post or needing to reread a post. That isn't going to cut it in LyLo.
MrZepher wrote:Sorry.
That's a big fancy gambit you've thrown down there Kunk.
I assume that you've concluded that it's either me or Oversoul then?
Anyways, it doesn't look like there's much time left till deadline, and I said I would if no other appropriate options came up.
I know my role pm, Kunk is confirmed, and Mastin is about as close to confirmed as he's going to get for me.
Vote: Oversoul
You don't even claim to be town in this post lmao. You simply state, I know my role, which you are assuming that everyone will think is town. That is the weakest process of elimination I have ever seen. I don't even know why you brough Kunk into this when he is really not involved (other than determining that Mastin is not scum when he didn't hammer me). YOU EVEN GAVE A REASON BEFORE WHY YOU WERE GOING TO VOTE ME AND YOU GIVE ANOTHER ONE? YOUR REASONS ARE WEAK. MINE ARE NOT. YOU HAVE NO REASONS THAT IS WHY. YOU ARE SCUM AND IT IS GOOD GAME BECAUSE OF THAT.
MrZepher wrote:
Oversoul wrote:Then it is Zepher. Good game scum.
WTF is that shit?
You're not going to vote for yourself.
The problem with Kunk's gambit is that it means Either you or me are scum.
The fact that you posted this in itself, without admitting to that possibility is terribad to the max.
Oversoul wrote:Mastin's little schtick/ false alarm confirms Zepher as scum.
I am voting Zepher when I get to my computer. Any objections speak up now. I'll be back home in an hour or two.
I don't understand how that at all led to me being the last scum.
We've already seen how Reck has messed up things as remotely important as role flips (like flipping a rolecop when there isn't even on in the setup, at this point there's only the bookie, because if there was ALSO a rolecop the game would have been over after yesterday's flip.)
Oversoul's pointing out that I should have gone after Mastin also seems pretty bad.
His saying Mastin will win no matter what is also bad, intentionally presenting a wincon for scum just to spite me is in no way town.
Ugh. This game.
Of course I am not going to make the town intentionally lose by voting myself. What shit is that? I said GOOD GAME SCUM because YOU ARE SCUM. I FOUND THE LAST SCUM AND IT IS YOU. I don't need to have any more dealings with you because I know your a scum and anything you try to do is automatically ill will towards the town.
Of course Kunk's gambit has proven that is either you or me, that is fact. Reck and Mastin's little fail has also proven that. Try adding new information into your posts instead of rehashing things that have been said.
I did not do this to spite you and honestly I have no idea where that comment came from. You were pretty much under the radar for the whole game and I didn't suspect you until Ludi flipped town. I don't hate you and I don't dislike you, but I do think that you are scum and that by the very definition of the word puts us at odds against each other.
My plea to Mastin was to vote you because I know you are scum. After reading this giant ass wall I hope he realizes that you are scum too.
There you have it folks. The reason why Zepher is scum.
The spoiler doesn't seem to be working. :\ Here it is.
Oversoul wrote:
If you are town and you vote Zepher with me, YOU will win.
If you are scum and you vote Zepher with me, YOU will win. Either way, YOU will win Mastin.
I'm saying that the fact that you're willing to just throw the win away to scum seems scummy to me.
It has nothing to do with whether or not I consider Mastin town.
You know his alignment as scum, so you have the information to be able to make that gambit.
Also, I didn't read too much of Oversoul's wall. I only have a few minutes right now anyways (not enough to devote to something adequate).
But, I will reply to some of the things I caught when looking quickly over it:
Swag was a VI, but town (which was very irritating to deal with)
I've had plenty of RL events that are 300 times more important than mafia over the course of the summer. If you don't like that, then get over it.
Posting a wall trying to condemn me how many hours from deadline?
Oversoul's flail scumming at the smallest details in the way I play because he knows that it's basically a 50/50 chance right now.
Since it's 1 AM now, by my math, that's an eight thirty deadline.
I'm gonna have to pull an all-nighter to get as many angles covered as I possibly can. I want to make this as objective as a decision as I can. I'm trying everything. VCA, dead-people's-opinions, consulting the coin, random.org, gut, instinct, past experience, magic eight ball, looking at Kunk's opinion, looking at the thread as much as I can, consulting a crystal ball...
...But yeah, none of it looks like it'd leave people with as much satisfaction as me simply trying to work objectively. (But. I'm. So. Bad. At. It! I'm an impulsive, instinctive guy! Extremely right-brained, a writer and a Poet, not a Warrior! Not logical, not left-brained. Not a guy who thinks things through. I'm in my weakest zone! >_<) Form my own conclusions with as much wit as I can gather.
...I have a really bad feeling that I'm going to make a wrong call, here.
But, hey. Think positively. Regardless of whether I get it right or wrong, I have ~6.5 hours (to be safe) to make a decision. And then, it'll be over, regardless of a result.
What's the expression? "You might not win even if you try. But you definitely won't win if you quit." Something like that. (In other words, I might screw up by hammering wrong, but it'd be far worse if I didn't finish within the time allotted.)
...You know, that's not quite as encouraging as I'd hope it'd be.
Five non-standard, to three standard. All town. Four standard.
/confirm
I know you, Slaxx. Sort of.
Kinda in the middle, but definitely leaning towards non-standard (six).
Five standard. Note that all eleven confirmations by this point are town.
Swag wrote:/confirm!
Shows enthusiasm, so not standard. That'd be the seventh non-standard confirm; is it really the seventh town one? Additionally, did twelve town players really confirm without a single scum player coming in?
...I know. I know.
This is horribad logic.
I wouldn't be using it if I wasn't desperate to figure things out.
You've been browsing this forum for a while now. How's it going?
-Ether
This is a huge black mark against Swag...especially...
...Well, ESPECIALLY coupled with how Swag was pointing out how it had been one hour already. Let's check the timestamps.
Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:31 pm
^Reck, "one hour".
Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:52 pm
^Swag, "I think it's been an hour". (Also, note how he says "think", unsure of himself...)
Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:04 pm
^Bump.
Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:04 pm
^Day One.
It'd been twelve minutes--was Swag really gone after that?
Mask wrote:Since we're voting in circles, vote: Parabollocks....... uh oes.
This...well, it's complex. Tracing it back, Parabollocks votes for Kayne...who is suspicious of Swag.
It's like a reverse-chainsaw-defense. Like an indirect chainsaw attack against Swag. I'm not sure whether this is a point in favor or agaisnt Swag/Zepher, since it's an incredible stretch. (Never have I felt this desperate before. Ever. Not once in my life, have I felt so helpless, so powerless.)
Oversoul wrote:/confirm
Sorry for the late reply, guys.
Apologizes for being late. Otherwise, a standard confirm. Additionally, doesn't participate in the RVS at all. Gives nothing. Looks bad...
Quillford wrote:/confirm
Late to the party as usual.
VOTE: Ethos
...But would his scumbuddy
really
do a move so similar it looks like parroting, immediately below him? When the connection would be most obvious? The only thing Quill gives that Oversoul doesn't is a vote.
Oversoul wrote:Vote Idher
Starts the Idher wagon, though reasoning had been used previously. ("That seems like a legitimate concern; why no vote?" And the answer.) It's actually looking town. :/
*sigh* I'm sure the Dead QT is raging at me constantly at what I've been doing. Many curse words, many caps locks, all directed at me in pure simple rage. "GET IT OVER WITH!" "YOU HAD IT, MASTIN! WHY THE EFF DID YOU BACK OUT OF IT?!?" "YOU. HAVE. WHAT. YOU. NEED. RIGHT. IN. FRONT. OF. YOU! WHY CAN'T YOU FIGURE IT OUT?!?" "THE ANSWER WAS RIGHT THERE; WHY THE EFF COULDN'T YOU SEE IT?!?" You get the idea. People cursing at me with the strongest language they can think of, of how I suck, I'm horrible, how I'm so bad. How I'm missing the obvious truth. How I'm missing the facts, how I'm getting things wrong, how I've basically done everything wrong.
But I AM trying. I'm. Trying. As hard as possible, to get it right. To not eff up. To not screw the town any further. To not cost the town the victory they've fought so hard for. If I didn't do an equal amount of work...what kind of player would I be? If I didn't give every single avenue of discussion a lookthrough, if I didn't try as hard as I possibly could...I'd never forgive myself.
Oversoul wrote::C Don't make fun.
The semi-joking interactions with others, not sure. It seems like something which SHOULD be a town-tell, yet scum do it all the time... :/
Kunk wrote:Vote: Swag. Scum is there.
Interesting. Will need looking in to.
SpyreX wrote:Sup game I hate not hitting the bookmark button.
Vote: Idher.
For your ^'erry.
Would Spy really jump onto the wagon his buddy had formed, for an entirely different reason as the suspicion previously?
Oversoul wrote:w00t! I started that Idher wagon.
Must get rid of all the hydras.
Again. Would Oversoul really claim credit for the Idher wagon?
Yet why justify it?
It leans town, but not as much as I'd be hoping. :/
Ethos wrote:Swag is town.
Idher is town.
Discuss.
This'd be of note, if it weren't for...
Correction:
Oversoul is town.
Swag is town.
Vote Ythan
This nullifying it. (Ironically, Ethos predicted what I predicted lylo would be like, five days before I did. )
Quillford wrote:I think Oversoul is town too but how do you discern Swag is town?
Again. This has to be one of the most important posts in the game. It's at least equal to the "which bandwagon had all the scum?" question. "Which name here is scum?"
It comes down to what we think of Quillford. Would he call his buddy (semi-weakly) town while weakly attacking town, or would he call someone (semi-weakly) town while weakly bussing?
My initial read was of Oversoul scum, Swag/Zepher town. The problem here, is that while it makes sense to strongly call town, well, town, it makes less sense to weakly call town, town. It makes sense to weakly bus as well.
It's like I have two or three points in favor of Oversoul-town, with one or two against him. I can't tell for sure. It's very hard, but very vital for me to figure this out.
Mod wrote:Îdher (3): Oversoul, SpyreX, Untrod Tripod
We know scum had no problem blatantly wagoning with their buddy, but would they do it like this?
It seems Kunkstar's Swag vote was almost entirely ignored. I'm not sure whether that indicates Swag/Zepher as town (scum don't want to interfere) or as scum (scum don't want to draw attention to their buddy by trying to get it off).
...It'd actually be something like 51.5/48.5 Zepher-Oversoul.
This is made out because of a thought I had in my QT. It's essentially related to Guilt, but I need to check it out. (Short version: more people thought Zepher was scum; losing to Zepherscum is more shameful than losing to Overscum.)
my real is most likely oversoul, but he's noob so there's the hard line between noobscum and noobtown, but it's a good vote nonetheless.
VOTE: Oversoul
This is very interesting.
Swag wrote:Have we started yet?
This was page five. The RVS was even mentioned on the page, with multiple hints.
SpyreX wrote:Looks like your nefarious ^ survives since we got us a live one.
Unvote, Vote: Para
lol, reactions sliding into excusing yourself from the vote as you make it? AWESOME
This is a bit of a Chainsaw Defense of Oversoul. :/
Swag wrote:Sorry for double post, didn't notice it was already five pages xD
Adds nothing. >_<
I know you're gonna take this the wrong way but, I had bookmarked this page on a post on the first page, and never bothered to look and see that we were already a few pages in, so I didn't even know we started. That's why I've been lurking and F5ing hoping it would start and never even noticing. Sorry for being a newb.
Newb-defense, along with being overapologetic and paranoid. Apparently is aware of the situation on the current page (fears he'll take flak), but doesn't give any commentary about other things.
Idher wrote:I believe Swag. So he should be following up now on that stuff he's just read for the first time.
This, however, is a strong case against him. He's concerned with himself, addressing what SpyreX (who we know is scum) says on him, while not addressing Idher or any of the previous pages. It looks...well, really bad. :/
Swag wrote:I'm leaning away from Hiraki and more towards Para...
So, leans away from one of his defenders (while ignoring the other defenders), while OMGUS'ing his attacker (while ignoring another attacker), with no vote.
...Yeah, doesn't look so good. :/
Well Hiraki I was kind of following Idher, but I realize he isn't scum, and do you really need an explanation?
Admits to sheeping, while also deflecting from answering.
...Though given Parabollocks was starting to pressure Swag, this is not as much of a tell. In fact, might suggest the opposite, chainsaw defending Swag......
T-Bone wrote:It's one to thing to say "so and so" is scummy, it's another to back up those claims. It's easy for scum to fluff and just pick a name and say they are scummy, because here's a news flash, we're all acting "scummy", so to call someone scummy and not explain why is the equivalent to a fluff post.
So Swag, I need an explanation.
Add T-Bone to the list of Swag attackers. (Note--Oversoul has basically disappeared from public eye. By memory, this seems to have happened for the entire game. Oversoul was out of sight, Swag/Zepher was in-sight.)
Mod wrote:Parabollocks (6): The Mask, Ythan, Untrod Tripod, Chair, SpyreX, Quilford
Mask, scum. Spy, scum. Quill, scum. Quill votes immediately after SpyreX does. By this point, they obviously don't mind voting next to each other. Question is whether they did earlier. :/
Swag wrote:Para, you've made a lot of unbiased posts, and not very smart moves. You're trying to cover yourself up too hard. Obvious scum is obvious. VOTE: Parabollocks
And if you look at context, you realize Hiraki voted after Quillford, but before Swag/Zepher did, creating distance. Swag follows through, but also wagons Parabollocks to L-1, if only briefly.
This is once more one of the important questions. Were all the scum on the Parabollocks Wagon, or on the Empking Wagon? The answer here is vital, since it determines the difference in who I'll hammer. Yet it's so hard for me to decipher. (Simply put, I'm out of my element.)
Kayne wrote:swag is possible scum, i believe the bookmarking bit, but refusing to give any explanation for scum sentiments followed by an L-1 vote with very fluff reasoning does not make town. claims that the L-1 vote can be written off as null for being a newb should also make the eagerness to start the game null as well.
This is definitely something to look into.
UT wrote:also I really want to lynch swag simply so I can refer to it as a swagon or a swag-wagon. Oh please oh please oh please let him be scum.
Ethos wrote:1) Do you believe Oversoul would come in, vote Idher and instantly attempt to claim credit for the wagon start if they were partners together?
2) Do you believe Oversoul would come in, vote Idher and instantly attempt to claim credit for the wagon start if it were to result in a town-flip?
Definitely of note.
Mod wrote:Parabollocks (7): The Mask, Ythan, Untrod Tripod, Chair, SpyreX, Quilford, Swag136
SpyreX was very active at the time and could've gotten off at any time. Was he really not afraid of this connection being drawn? (BLARGFGFGHGFJ!!!)
Oversoul wrote:Ythan, you're wrong.
Moving on.
Implying Ythan is town, while also defending Ethos. And giving no additional commentary on the game.
Quillford wrote:kunkstar: what's your updated read on Swag?
This looks like...well, just about as blatant as asking about your scumbuddies can get. It seems EXTREMELY out of place. Contrast with this:
T-Bone: why is your vote still on Chair?
Same post, but an EXTREMELY different way of asking.
Oversoul: quick summary of your reads on Hiraki, Ythan and Para please
THIS looks like addressing town, though.
Swag: how is Parabollocks trying to "cover himself up"? Update your reads with explanations.
I can see nothing good in here. Maybe if I wasted half an hour, I could find something bad, but I don't think I can spare the time. (I need to pick up my pace.)
Ethos wrote:Quil, Idher, go back and read our tells and tell us what you think of them. I'm specifically interested in the Oversoul tell which is a tell I think Quilford agreed with.
This draws my attention. I didn't really notice any tells from Ethos. :/
Quillford wrote:So I really don't think Oversoul 'claimed' anything. With the 'w00t!' in front of the 'claim' it reads less like "oh I started that wagon I want due credit" and more like "hey I'm a noob and I did something right for once".
So, he wants to make sure Oversoul doesn't get to be too town, despite this being one of the main things he was likely to agree with.
In other words. He didn't want Oversoul looking to be pro-town.
Serious, SERIOUS town-points to Oversoul for that. It's NOT constructed as a bus; it's constructed as a "not-town".
Oversoul wrote:Hiraki I see as slightly scummy just for his general attitude towards the game . I have Hikari and Spyrex as possible scum buddies because of their relative lack of communication yet continual support from Spyrex. Also, Hikari seems to be pretty much following along what other people say. He unvoted me after Ythan proposed a plausible statement of "implausible" as well as changed his mind when Idher said he believed Swag. He seems to act too flippy floppy and I would not mind a lynch on either him or Spyrex.
This looks town; creating a scumteam, and it has SpyreX in it.
Ythan... I don't even know how to read. I am completely stumped. He seems mainly interested in arguing rather than the reason for arguing. I'll put him as town, but his dumb mason test makes it sound really scummy. Why would another town want masons to softclaim?
This...less so. Fence-sitting.
Parablocks I have as a town. 126 indicates that he cares about not being mislynched. At the early in the game, I don't think a scum would really care that someone started to /lean/ towards them. He shrugged when the pressure was put onto him and didn't really give adequate reasons for voting me other than saying my actions were unnecessary.
This ALSO looks majorly town.
Sorry this took so long write up. I'm new at this and I hadn't really been paying attention to the thread.
Yet this doesn't.
(Seeing the pattern? )
Quillford wrote:I think you may have gotten some players' names mixed up here. Correct please?
Reading the rest of your post now.
Yet this looks a little like scum talking to scumbuddy. :/
WHY OH WHY DOES THIS HAVE TO BE MADE JUST. SO. EFFING. DIFFICULT FOR ME?!?
Also SpyreX thoughts on Hiraki please
This actually furthers that, since he asks his scumbuddy. (Or does it? Would he really address two scumbuddies in a row?
AAAAAAAAARGJFJGNJIORGJIRGG!!!!!!!)
SpyreX wrote:No I see what he's saying (and in the grandiose scheme of things it makes me laaaaugh):
This is in the context of Quillford asking about Oversoul's post. And it looks incredibly good for Oversoul, since scum tend not to laugh at their scumbuddies in-thread. Not in this way, at least.
Through eleven.
For the record. It's looking like I'll be hammering Zepher. We'll see what I find when I keep on reading. I need to be more sure than I am. It's, like, 53-47 AT MOST, Zepher-Oversoul.
*sigh* I really deserve to have my eyes gouged out. I was so blind that I couldn't see, I physically couldn't see, Ludi flipping town. Yet he did. And now, I'm having extreme trouble seeing the last scum. One moment, I catch onto something which makes me instantly think I have it, then I lose it in a fog. :/ "I once was blind, but now I
see
am worse."
Ethos wrote:2. That you believe we're making incorrect assumptions in regards to our Oversoul town-read.
This issue has been beaten to death, Overs play reads as town through and through and this is a read that's not weakening at all, I still fail to see him acting in the way he did as scum.
More evidence Oversoul is town.
Mod wrote:Parabollocks (6): The Mask, Ythan, Untrod Tripod, Chair, Quilford, Swag136
Perfect instance of me doubting my read. SpyreX was calm on getting off--like he wasn't worried. Quillford wasn't concerned, either. Implying a lack of concern on Swag's vote.
Mask wrote:unvote; vote: swag... I dunno, I still think there's something behind him lurking when the game started. Haven't read the 11 pages I missed but I see 6 votes on Para so lol, no.
This REEKS of bussing.
Absolutely.
Horrendously.
Reeks of bussing.
Fourteen down. (I'm not gonna finish in time, am I? :/) Though I think you can all see where this is leading me.
KoC wrote:Swag, come to the Headmaster's office for 6 of the best. Very, very bad. Following an unconfirmed-alignment player for no reason? Check. Jumping off that onto another major wagon and not giving a reason? Check.
I feel awful for KoC/Ludi now that I read this. There's just...no words. Feeling of heart-sinking for having been such a strong crusader against them, when they posted something like this which very well might sway me once and for all to Swag/Zepher.
SpyreX wrote:Unvote, Vote: Para
Seriously dont know or care if thats a hammer peace
He doesn't care about his place on the wagon.
This is evidence against Swag/Zepher. Since if he didn't care at all, he wouldn't panic about being on the wagon with all his scumbuddies.
This seems important.
But I'm beginning to lose my coherence. (*Insert F-Bomb here* ) I can't tell how.
Ethos wrote:Quilford, I can understand the town-read on Over via the tone of his early posts to a degree however I'm finding it difficult understanding your refrainment from stating that reasoning when the argument about Over came to light. I'll await your reads-list before I respond in regards to the Ythan vs Ethos debate.
This makes me think Quillford's town-read on Oversoul was a bit of a, well, scum-slip, in that he knew Oversoul was town.
Oversoul wrote:Ya, Idher. Most of your posts aren't really contributing to anything, especially your random vote on Quilford which I assume is from Ethos's list.
The only reason I can come up with for your lack of substance is that you have a QT with someone else (other than your hydra partner).
Stuff like this makes me second-guess that growing Oversoul town-read, though.
(WHY THE HECK DID NOBODY EVER TELL ME HAMMERING 3P LYLO WOULD BE THIS HARD?!?
...Oh. Right. 'Cause they didn't expect me to ever need to. )
Oversoul wrote:I still can't believe how many problems came as a result of one of my posts.
This...on the other hand, this...actually strengthens the town-read.
Mask wrote:Nice to know my swag vote is shitposting... oh but it's SpyreX saying that so yeah, of course he's chainsawwing.
This looks like one of the most condemning things possible for Swag.
Mask was the traitor. he knew Spy was scum. He knew the scum. It really looks like a double-bus. And Spy calling Mask out for Swag is also more against Swag/Zepher. I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing any way this day can go down other than me hammering Zepher. :/
I should read Oversoul's Zepher case, but I don't want to, yet--it'd bias my own reads and I want to compare my version to what he presents.
In roughly an hour, I will. (Dang. It's late. :/)
Yosarian2 wrote:Swag: Has done noting all game except this vote for Para:
Swag wrote:Para, you've made a lot of unbiased posts, and not very smart moves. You're trying to cover yourself up too hard. Obvious scum is obvious. VOTE: Parabollocks
Para did have a lot of “not very smart moves”, but what, exactally, makes you think that he’s scum rather then just an idiot? What does “a lot of unbiased posts” even mean? What makes his play “obvscum”?
I dislike that Swag has done no scumhunting all game, and then jumps on a bad lynchbait wagon while giving really bad reasons.
Respect your elders.
(His reads were awesome there. None of his town-reads were scum. He had one correct scumread for sure, looking like two.)
Oversoul, Addressing Quillford wrote:Or that maybe could be just his reads on them. I think you're reading into his post too much.
This. It's either null or super-town, rather than gut-town.
This is through 18.
4:30. That's an hour and a half from my self-imposed deadline, which is itself an hour and a half or so from actual deadline. I think, anyway. My sense of time is extremely skewed right now.
This post COULD be bussing, but doesn't look like it. Call it gut, call it confirmation bias against Oversoul; it just doesn't look like Empking'd bus in this manner.
Oversoul is newbie town sooo through and through now my goodness.
Seriously losing my coherence; can't tell if this makes Oversoul more or less likely to be scum, though my first call was less.
Through 22. And honestly, I'm not sure what reading further will get me. It's looking more and more clear. :/
Page 23 has a lot of Oversoul. But it doesn't look really scummy.
Potential points against him are him apparently knowing Bookie/Traitor are in the setup, but the way he doesn't know how they work looks better for him, since, well, the scum bookie's the last scum role alive.
Took a small break to refresh myself. I'll read Oversoul's case when I've done a solid page of posts.
Oversoul wrote:I felt if I gave him my role pm it would prove to him that I am town. I still don't think he believes me, though.
Looks town, and pretty hard to fake.
Just wondering, Yos, but why is claiming VT generally anti-town? I believe it to be anti-town because it is the most common role that scum fakeclaims. However, I am interested in your opinion.
Question, scummy. Phrasing of said question, town. "it is the most common role that scum fakeclaims" in particular.
Saporovirus wrote:vote: Empking
Continues the weak bussing.
Oversoul wrote:I really have no reluctance voting for Empking and once Idher started to single out Quilford and his behavior I started to feel that he was scummy, but I was more obsessed with Ythan being scum to really care.
A bit worrying, that he doesn't follow through. :/
And fair warning, I am becoming more tired. The more I read, the less effort I'm putting in. I feel it. It's draining me. I won't be able to go on for much longer, before I lose my ability to keep on going. :/
I am a gullible person, but the fact that you went after me rests my case. 
