NY136: The Death of ReaperCharlie (GAME OVER, Town win!)

[Iecerint]

I do agree with some of the things you've said against Yos, to be honest (and I agreed with a lot of what MBL said about DX), but the recent Yos post about mis-perceiving that you were a bulletproof godfather is an impressive fiction if it is one. So that's the recent event that pushed me over the edge.

[Hydra]

Yosarian has acted scummy all game, has straight up lied today in attacking me today, has asked innane logical questions that serve no purpose, and the thing that tips you to not vote him is because he hypothesized that there was a mafia godfather in play, and he was wrong? No, look at his play the entire game.

That makes no sense Iecerint. For one thing, he comes up with this theory out of nowhere, it is completely wrong and has no relevance to anything. Nothing about it makes sense except to confuse people and make them vote for his mislynch.

[Hydra]

I've acted protown this entire game. I may have been wrong yesterday about DX being scum, but It came directly from a protown mindset. Yosarian hasn't shown that. I really have no idea what Yosarian's reason for voting me is besides 'he looks bad', with very little follow up explanation.

[Iecerint]

It's the same basic logic that made me change my mind about DX yesterday (earlier crumbs consistent with the town PoV).

The theory makes plenty of sense. It makes sense that I would shoot someone and that the failure of my shot given the flipped roleblocker would have been caused by something, and the GF hadn't flipped yet.

You were my main suspect going into today, too, so I don't think him attacking you is particularly surprising (regardless of his alignment). Toast and CTD are town or deserve the scumwin (apologies to Yos re: CTD); DH is kinda iffy and a possible spoiler, but site meta says not scum; which leaves you two, and Yos contributed to yesterday working correctly.

The only normal scum lynch this game -- Parama's -- was pretty unavoidable when it happened, and you can't claim credit for MBL, so "I am pro-town"-type arguments don't do much to convince me of anything.

[Yosarian2]

I've acted protown this entire game. I may have been wrong yesterday about DX being scum, but It came directly from a protown mindset. Yosarian hasn't shown that. I really have no idea what Yosarian's reason for voting me is besides 'he looks bad', with very little follow up explanation.

You have no idea? You tried to protect the mafia roleblocker yesterday by trying to mislynch me. You directly played to further the scum's win condition, period.

You also kept insisting that either me or you has to be scum, and have been since yesterday, and in fact yesterday you tried to use the fact that I wanted to lynch MBL instead of you as an argument AGAINST me. Now you're saying you "don't understand why I'm voting you"?

Of course, your behavior today has been incredibly scummy as well, especially your flat and blanket refusal to comment on anyone in the game other then me, but that's fairly minor compared to the main points against me.

Yosarian has acted scummy all game, has straight up lied today in attacking me today, has asked innane logical questions that serve no purpose, and the thing that tips you to not vote him is because he hypothesized that there was a mafia godfather in play, and he was wrong? No, look at his play the entire game.

I don't know where you get off claiming I've been "scummy all game". I was wrong about AGM on day 1, but I was right when I attacked Parama and defended DH on day 2; I took a brief detour to figure out PJ's alignment, but I figured otu he was probably town even while he was trying to have me lynched and went back to getting Parama lynched for the rest of the day. I figured out Shanba was probably town and fought against him being lynched for much of the game (even while he was attacking me). You attacked me a great deal because I was defending Shanba while you wanted to mislynch him, but I stuck to my guns, even though you, mastin, and several others were constantly attacking me for defending Shanba.

I had some doubts SV early on, but after Param flipped scum, I figured out that her interactions with her meant she was probably not scum with him and defended her. (She was SK, so as it turns out I shouldn't have defended her, but my read that she was not scum with parama was right, and the fact that I tried to stop her from being lynched makes no sense from a scum perspective at all.)

And, of course, yesterday, when a cop claimed a guilty on someone else, I carefully analyzed both of their play, asked the cop a series of questions, figured out that cop was probably town, and mislynched the cop's guilty, who was the mafia roleblocker>

All game, my play has been pro-town, I've done a good job scumhunting, and my reads have generally been pretty accurate. I was right Meran was town on day 1, I was right Icerent and earwig were town on day 2, ect. I've certainly been playing much more pro-town then you have all game.

As for you other point; I just want to you to answer a simple question, I want you analyze the alignment of the other living people in the game. If you are 100% sure that everyone but me is town, say that, and say why. If you are not, then say that, and say why and who. Every townie should always be able to answer a question about who their suspects are and are not. You keep refusing to do so. You are therefore flatly refusing to scumhunt, period. You're just calling that "innane" because it's not in your interests, as scum, to answer my question today.

[Yosarian2]

*that's fairly minor compared to the main points against me.

Lol. I'll go ahead and correct this to what I obviously meant, "the main points against you" before Hydra, tries another stupid "lol scumslip" gambit in order to avoid answering any of my actual points.

[Iecerint]

Yos, I actually think your COMMENT ON OTHERS HYDRA insistence has been a bit scummy. If there's only one scum left, then postulating lots of secondary or tertiary solitary suspects can only have the effect of alienating him OR confusing those of us deliberating.

You can flip this around and say that Hydra isn't talking about us to AVOID alienating us, which is also scummy, but your insistence that he implicate others doesn't do much for me...

Just sayin.

[Yosarian2]

Yos, I actually think your COMMENT ON OTHERS HYDRA insistence has been a bit scummy. If there's only one scum left, then postulating lots of secondary or tertiary solitary suspects can only have the effect of alienating him OR confusing those of us deliberating.

You can flip this around and say that Hydra isn't talking about us to AVOID alienating us, which is also scummy, but your insistence that he implicate others doesn't do much for me...

Just sayin.

(shrug) If Hydra was town, and he saw that he was likely get lynched, then I would expect him to WANT to impart all of his wisdom to us before dying. Townies generally want do that. If he is 100% sure that I have to be the last scum and that everyone else has to be town, I'd expect him to say that; and if he thinks there's a chance someone else is scum, I'd expect him to say that.

On the other hand, if Hydra is the last scum, I would expect him to want to leave his options open for who to go after tomorrow if he survives today. Or, conversely, if he has a buddy, I'd expect him to do everything he could to avoid commenting on any other players to make it harder to find his buddy tomorrow after we lynch him. And you're right, a scum in his position would be worried about alienating people, but I don't think that would be at the top of a townie's mind in this situation.

Townies are usually pretty free with sharing their thoughts on the game. In this case, I would expect a scum in Hydra's place to be close-lipped, for tactical reasons. And it's pretty amazing the way he's flailing around to try to avoid answering the question at all. He even asked it to me, I answered it instantly and in full, and he still won't budge.

[Hydra]

You tried to protect the mafia roleblocker yesterday by trying to mislynch me. You directly played to further the scum's win condition, period.

You're implying here that somehow I should have known that MBL was both scum and the scum roleblocker yesterday, when In reality I had no idea this was the case. I took the facts confronted against me, and decided that DX made the most sense as scum, voted him before voting you. Trying to lynch someone I think is scum, that being you, is not furthering anything but the town win condition.

I perused Mafia Discussion, and see you here with the same mindset I presented yesterday, not trusting them or dismissing them but trying to figure out who was lying or not, which is incidently what you are painting as a major 'scumtell for me';

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 0#p3355990

I think you also said somewhere else that finding town depends more on their intention then if they were right or not, and if you look at yesterday you could clearly see I believed what I was saying, yest you dismiss this because you don't like the conclusions I reached and because I was wrong initially about DX.

Thats some of the main reasons I think you're scum, the deviation between what you say when you alignment is not in question (MD) and here. I'm also saying I don't really see a solid reason for voting me besides the fact that yesterday I didn't go for MBL, when it wasn't clear at all this was a correct lynch.

You on the other hand, seemed exceedingly certain he

WAS

going to flip scum, even past the point when it might have been logical to question your own read (re: he claimed town post hammer). Thats what also convinced me that you maybe had inside knowledge of his role, then.

[Hydra]

Also, Yosarian, a lot of your argument is predicated on the fact that 'I am likely getting lynched', which I still believe isn't and doesn't have to be the case. A lot of your previous post is over generalization of how you think townies play, again, I don't think anyone should really believe that when your alignment is in serious question.

I've already given you my position on that argument before.

also,

I've certainly been playing much more pro-town then you have all game.

Can you back this up?

[Yosarian2]

You tried to protect the mafia roleblocker yesterday by trying to mislynch me. You directly played to further the scum's win condition, period.

You're implying here that somehow I should have known that MBL was both scum and the scum roleblocker yesterday, when In reality I had no idea this was the case.-

If you act in a way that furthers the scum win condition, then it increases the chance you are scum. Or, to put it another way, I would expect scum to try to derail the MBL wagon yesterday, and you tried to derail the MBL wagon yesterday.

I perused Mafia Discussion, and see you here with the same mindset I presented yesterday, not trusting them or dismissing them but trying to figure out who was lying or not, which is incidently what you are painting as a major 'scumtell for me';

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 0#p3355990

Um, no. Yesterday, I tried to figure out if Xantos was lying or not by carefully reading his background, asking him a series of questions, looking at the person he repalced, ect, and I came to the conclusion he was probably town. This conclusion became more and more clear through the corse of the day, as more facts came out; the way you and MBL seemed to be working as a team to try to lynch either me or Xantos in order to protect MBL, the fairly obvious honesty of Xantos's tone, the fact that there is no way a scum would make up a story like that as a gambit. I used logic and reasoning to figure out that Xantos was town and MBL was scum, which is pretty much what I said you should do in that MD post you're quoting.

Anyway, the thing you're not getting here is that it doesn't matter. You defended scum, and tried to prevent scum from being lynched. Defending scum is ALWAYS a scumtell, a sign that the person doing it is more likely their buddy, because scum obviously have a huge motive in defending each other. That motive is especally large in a situation like yesterday, when (since they didn't know that Icerent was out of shots) the scum would have quite badly wanted to keep their roleblocker alive. In other words, there is a certain way that scum would logically be expected to act yesterday, given the facts of the gamestate at the time, and that is the way that you acted.

You on the other hand, seemed exceedingly certain he

WAS

going to flip scum, even past the point when it might have been logical to question your own read (re: he claimed town post hammer). Thats what also convinced me that you maybe had inside knowledge of his role, then.

By that point, it was incredibly bloody obvious. I really don't understand how anyone could have still doubted that Xantos was town and MBL was scum after that breadcrumb came out; it was pretty obvious before that point anyway, but after that point, no one should have had any doubt. MBL put on a good theatre performance post-lynch, but I don't know why anyone would have taken it seriously when all the facts were on the other side.

[Magister Ludi]

Some of that isn't true, as MBL certainly never voted you, and I voted DX on independent reasons.

Also, its untrue of you to say I defended scum. I said that one of MBL and DX was scum, and after lynching you (as scum yesterday), the vig would shoot MBL to either confirm him as scum or DX as scum.

I didn't try and defend scum, I wanted to lynch you and have the other scum sorted out in the night.

Can you prove these statements you are saying I did, or not, because I've tried to use quotes and explain your play as best and clearly as possible and your defense is usually a mix of 'you did XXXX', with no back up or, I believe XXXX, so this means you're scum, which isn't valid when your alignment is in question and you have contradictory stances in Mafia Discussion.

Meh, mafia is never a game of absolute certainty, you yourself believe this, So i'm not sure why you're so intent of saying no one could have any doubts about MBL's alignment when he claimed TOWN after he was lynched. I'm not seeing how town wouldn't believe this, which is why I think you knew his alignment and knew he was flipping scum.

[Yosarian2]

Some of that isn't true, as MBL certainly never voted you, and I voted DX on independent reasons.

No, MBL didn't vote me, but he supported your wagon on me. And you supported his wagon on DX.

Examples of posts where MBL gave support to your wagon for me:

Ok. Xanatos is scum. He needs four more votes to get his desired mislynch. Good luck with that. I'm guessing the scumteam went with a gambit today because their odds of lynching town didn't look good, and because they're running out of options. They picked the wrong person to mess with.

Yos pretty much has to be X's scumpartner at this point. If Yos was town, I'm pretty sure X would have claimed his fake result on Yos instead of on me, or just pushed for a Yos lynch instead of a MBL lynch today without bothering to risk the fakeclaim. The fakeclaim play is actually probably optimal coming from a Yos+X scumteam--they saw the lynch+vig writing on the wall and went proactive.

They don't appear to have mentioned each other yesterday. In fact, here's part of the post Xanatos claims to have held back on yesterday:

8.

CrashTextDummie

- Unknown.
13.

Yosarian2

- Unknown.
14.

Shanba

- Unknown.
16.

Hydra

- Unknown.

Here are Xanatos's only attacks yesterday:

Hydra

> What're your reasons for voting KJ? You promised "brilliance" and "awesomeness" and have delivered... a vague poke and what looks like ADD.

Seriously. You don't get to post 4 times in 4 days and then whine there's not enough thread activity. Especially when you still haven't delivered the promised case, and repeatedly use words like "definitely" without knowing how to spell them.

And the main thing was the direct contrast between

Shanba

's first post, attempting to call someone out for "parking his vote", and then going on to park his vote on saporo, then do the same on Yos, and then again on Pine... at first I read him as Town trying to start a policy lynch wagon, but when I noticed that pattern, it went straight out the window.. Because if he's Scum, as I believe he is, it's in his interests to restrict the information Town can acquire before the Night phase. Scum are the informed minority, the less information Town can put together, the easier it is for the Scum team.

There'll be more pressure on

CTD

with a Shanba flip. He claimed Shanba was scummy repeatedly, and even goes so far as to say he fits as a Parama buddy, then drops everything in favour of a case on KJ built, from what I can see, entirely on the fact KJ speculated about the SK. Coupled with saying the Shanba wagon "has merit", and apparently believing that a Doc claim should be ignored over moving to your second suspect.. I don't like it either, but we'll know a lot more from a flip.

And on Yos and MBL, nothing:

Yos

, you willing to hammer Shanba?

I find

MBL

's reads rather interesting..

That's it.

Makes cases on three of his "unknowns" but ignores the other two unknowns.

Lets someone he says is a townie get run up to L-1:

KJ I'm leaning townish, but will need to look over his predecessor.

And doesn't claim a result, makes no case of any kind, doesn't even whisper a passing suspicion of the person he claims a guilty on?

Bitch, please.

It feels oily to compare my play to the play of others, so I'll leave it at this generality: my play this game has been significantly more pro-town than that of earworm, Pine, Xanatos or Yos. For you to insinuate otherwise, Xanatos, is ridiculous, especially to insinuate such in comparison to the way your scumteam has played. For example, here's all Yos said about Parama D1:

On a side note, Parama's most recent posts are somewhere between useless and terrible. Post better, give better answers to PJ's questions. Not really happy with you right now.

That is the definition of scum pissed off at their scumpartner.

And I repeat, Yosarian is the only player earworm did not mention D1, and Yos did not mention or question earworm at all D1 either.

Xanatos is scum, and Yos-scum fits the pattern of pushing townies and selectively ignoring/being ignored by his teammates.

MBL was doing everything he could to support your wagon on me, while still keeping his vote on Xantos. I have no doubt that if it had looked like I was close to getting lynched, that he would have helped you lynch me.

Meanwhile, you were doing everyting you could to support both the wagon on me and the wagon on Xantos. For example:

I also have a guilty read on MBL from a previous night. (N1 to be exact. N2 Pine didn't submit an action.. I'll never understand inactive PRs..)

There is no way this this hydra believe this is true.

For one thing, busting this read out at potentially lynch or lose, assuming four scum, and I did notice how you try and subtly (or not so, heh) paint this as

not

lynch or lose

I'd be inclined to think 3+SK.

is very suspect in and of itself.

If you had such an awesome report, your slot

would

have claimed it on day two, or day three, or you persnoally as soon as you got into the game, and not sat on it.

There was no guarentee of a anti-town lynch at all yesterday, in fact of the two dueling wagons one flipped town and had the probabilty of being mislynched while you sat on an

apparent guilty result.

That is not something town does.

I'm very confident this was a scum gambit to win the game.

Vote: David X

The two of you were working as a tag-team yesterday, trying to lynch either me or Xantos. It's clear from your posts and from all of his posts. You guys didn't really care which one of us you lynched, so long as you kept your scum roleblocker alive.

Also, its untrue of you to say I defended scum. I said that one of MBL and DX was scum, and after lynching you (as scum yesterday), the vig would shoot MBL to either confirm him as scum or DX as scum.

You argued at length that the cop who got a guilty on MBL was lying scum. (See the quote above, for example). By doing that, you were defending MBL. That's pretty much the only way you could have defended MBL at that point.

[Magister Ludi]

Yeah, initially I thought DX was scum, but I think the only difference between you and me in my view is that I voted him while you did not.

Also, you've changed your tone drastically here in order to fit whatever mode you think will get me mislynched;

You "couldn't figure it out"? Bull.

You never even TRIED to figure it out, which is a completely different thing. We had a cop claim a guilty on another person, and you did your best to ignore the whole situation and try to distract the town into lynching a third party.

If you had tried to figure it out, if you had even commented on which one of the two was more likely scum, that'd be one thing, but you carefully avoided ever doing anything like that, lest you link yourself to your buddy.

You argued at length that the cop who got a guilty on MBL was lying scum.

(See the quote above, for example). By doing that, you were defending MBL. That's pretty much the only way you could have defended MBL at that point.

which is very scummy. I mean, you've done this several times now today. This is why I think you're scum trying to get a mislynch off on me Yosarian.

~~~

As for the situation yesterday, you seem to be doing you best to nitpick only my stance, where I tried to vote you, without mentioning other people, because I think you don't want to risk alienating other players. Several had the same views I did, but that doesn't really matter to you


You call me out on voting you, but you don't

1. Mention DH who voted both DX and you, because you don't want him to move his vote now
2. Call out Iece, who has expressed today that he had the same sentiment as I did yesterday that DX could have been fake claiming and was generally unsure of the situation
3. Really go after CTD, who voted for DX yesterday, instead preparing to lynch him tomorrow should I flip town
(4. Even talk about toasty really)

[Yosarian2]

You call me out on voting you, but you don't

1. Mention DH who voted both DX and you, because you don't want him to move his vote now
2. Call out Iece, who has expressed today that he had the same sentiment as I did yesterday that DX could have been fake claiming and was generally unsure of the situation
3. Really go after CTD, who voted for DX yesterday, instead preparing to lynch him tomorrow should I flip town
(4. Even talk about toasty really)

Toasty's been obvtown since day 1.

Even if it wasn't for the whole neighbors thing, DH would be pretty clearly town here. Just the way he reacted to the revelation of the breadcrumb was so clearly town. And with the neighbor thing, he has to be town; I pointed this out earlier when CTD raised the possibility of him being scum; for one thing, if he was scum, that would mean scum-Parama and scum-DH first attacked Toasty in thread and then confirmed him as town. It totally defies belief; there is no way DH and Parama were both scum, the way day 1 unfolded.

Iece is a confirmed vig, and the SK is dead. Plus he played a big role in eventually lynching MBL yesterday.

And, no, I didn't "really go after" CTD to the same extent I went after you; I'm not happy with his play, but the evidence against you right now is much stronger, especially the obvious links to MBL I just pointed out in my post above.

So, what do you think about all those people? Are you going to finally answer that question?

[Yosarian2]

As for the "changing my attack on you"; you're right. I was incorrect early in the day today; you didn't ignore the cop vs. scum debate, you actively jumped into it and did everything you could to attack the cop and protect the scum. My mistake. Of course, that just makes you significantly more scummy, not less scummy.

[CrashTextDummie]

Hi, I apologize for my recent absence, I should have announced V/LA. I will remain strapped for time until Monday.

I haven't found the time yet to reread the things I wanted to, but I did take another look at how yesterday went down and I've skimmed the most recent couple of pages.

First thing's first: A Hydra/Yos tag team could have quicklynched DX yesterday. Since I very seriously doubt a second scum in the neighborhood, I don't think DH is scum with either one of Yos/Hydra. And Toasty is 100% confirmed in my eyes; not only is he a neighbor, he could have quicklynched with either one of Yos/Hydra yesterday. In all likelyhood, we're looking at one scum left between Yos and Hydra.

I'm hesitant to base this decision on yesterday's play, despite my earlier feeling that we were dealing with a MBL/Hydra vs. DX/Yos situation. I mentioned yesterday that Hydra's push against Yos made sense to me from a pro-town perspective, and this still holds true even with the knowledge that MBL was scum. I was convinced DX was lying scum until the flavor breadcrumb was brought up. From Hydra's alleged point of view, Yos was the safe play. Of course, Yos does have a point that Hydra's play made a lot of sense from a scum PoV as well. Although I'm not sure lynching Yos would have been the optimal play for a Hydra-MBL scumteam (even with a roleblocker, there was probably too much town power left for them to handle), Hydra was in a position to switch back to DX at any point if he came into hammer range.

One thing that struck me as distinctly pro-town yesterday is the way Hydra panicked and scrambled immediately before and after MBL was hammered. It resonates with how I felt way back in LML's "New C9" game, where I had a similar moment of panic when I suddenly thought I saw a conspiracy to get someone lynched (who turned out to be scum as well). Sure, this kind of stuff can be faked by good scum, but it fit with his thought process throughout the day and I don't see why he'd put on this kind of a charade if he had just lost his final scumbuddy.

The fact that Yos pushed to get MBL lynched so tenaciously is certainly a point in his favor. If he's scum, he set himself up for an incredibly up-hill battle by bussing his roleblocker. On the other hand, I think a Yos/MBL-scumteam was pretty much boned with the guilty-claim, since Yos was first in line on the vig/lynch list and if he had been on the DX-lynch, I think the game would have ended rather predictably.

As for today, I feel Yos' case against Hydra is fairly one-note ("you pushed against a scum-lynch" being the only point that carries true weight) whereas Hydra's case against Yos looks more nuanced and comprehensive to me. That's just based on an quick initial read, so I may be doing one or both of them an injustice. One thing that does concern me a whole lot is the fact that Yos is trying to cast doubt on my claim at every possible junction, which indicates an endgame-agenda to me.

On the whole, I don't think it matters all that much in which order we lynch these two, but I lean towards Yos as the faster way to end the game. Will try to check in over the weekend and will reread more after Monday.

[Yosarian2]

One thing that does concern me a whole lot is the fact that Yos is trying to cast doubt on my claim at every possible junction, which indicates an endgame-agenda to me.

(shrug) You've defended the entire scum team at one point or another this game. First you defended Parama, and yesterday you defended both MBL and Hydra. So, yeah, I have some doubts about you as a possible Hydra partner, despite the claim.

That being said, the most likely scenario here is still that Hydra is the last scum.

[Yosarian2]

To be fair, if CTD was scum with Hydra, I wouldn't expect to hear him make this argument at all:

First thing's first: A Hydra/Yos tag team could have quicklynched DX yesterday. Since I very seriously doubt a second scum in the neighborhood, I don't think DH is scum with either one of Yos/Hydra. And Toasty is 100% confirmed in my eyes; not only is he a neighbor, he could have quicklynched with either one of Yos/Hydra yesterday. In all likelyhood, we're looking at one scum left between Yos and Hydra.

So the odds of him being scum just went down a little more in my mind.

[CrashTextDummie]

Yos, I'm aware of the fact that my scumhunting was below par this game. But if you flip scum, I won't beat myself up over it.

One thing I wanted to point out that I forgot:
As I said previously, I would have preferred it if Iecerint hadn't announced why there was no kill from him last night. It would have left the scum guessing (missed another deadline? decided not to shoot? out of shots?), which is always preferable. I see speculation on this as detrimental at best and scummy at worst. I know Yosarian is guilty of this because it was a point of discussion on this page, but I'd have to read back to see who else engaged in this kind of speculation.

[Amrun]

VC5.4

(0) DemonHybrid
(0) Iecerint
(0) CrashTextDummie
(1) Yosarian2 - Hydra
(2) Hydra - DemonHybrid, Yosarian2
(0) ToastyToast

Not Voting: Iecerint, CrashTextDummie, ToastyToast

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline: Friday, August 26, 11pm EST

Spoiler: Vote History

DemonHybrid - Yosarian2 > Hydra
Iecerint -
CrashTextDummie -
Yosarian2 - Hydra
Hydra - Yoasarian2
ToastyToast -

If there are any mistakes, please let me know.

[Yosarian2]

One thing I wanted to point out that I forgot:
As I said previously, I would have preferred it if Iecerint hadn't announced why there was no kill from him last night. It would have left the scum guessing (missed another deadline? decided not to shoot? out of shots?), which is always preferable. I see speculation on this as detrimental at best and scummy at worst. I know Yosarian is guilty of this because it was a point of discussion on this page, but I'd have to read back to see who else engaged in this kind of speculation.

Either it's lynch or lose, or there's only 1 scum left. I was assuming that whoever Iecerint tried and failed to kill was scum, so it was defiantly worth asking him to claim his target in this situation.

With the scum roleblocker and the cop both already dead, how does having the information out there help the scum at this point anyway?

[Yosarian2]

Looks like I'm unexpectedly going to be V/LA this weekend, and possibly for 3 or 4 days.

If anyone has any questions you want me to answer before that point, I'll be around for the next few hours.

[ToastyToast]

I think its Yosarian, but I need to read. U guys and your long posts

[Amrun]

DemonHbrid has been prodded.