Open 324 - Ninja Mafia (End. No Drama, please!)

[Ray Montano]

I use chainsaw defense (as do some other vets I enjoy playing with) as a means to illustrate a player actively pushing to derail a wagon while persuading others to provide cases on other players without actually doing the work themselves. Its defensive in the sense that it protects them from blame if the player with the wagon is lynched and flips scum and also protects them from blame on the other wagons because other players provided cases in which they can piggyback.

[Kcdaspot]

Right, My whole thing about BBmolla is this: In early stages of a game Scum NEED to blend in with the town as best they can and molla is doing just that. 17 posts. I quoted 10. Spoiler'd for sanities sake.

Here you go.

Spoiler: A case on molla

BBmolla

- You come in, with 2 full pages already down. Answer some RQS that was buried way down on page 2, meaning you obviously at least MILDLY read through the game. Complain saying the game is going fast (Read: lots of content), but tell us you don't have any thoughts yet? This yells lurky mc lurkalot to me. "Hey guys, let me answer the RQS that I obviously noticed meaning I HAVE read the thread, then say I have no thought on the thread so far, due to there being to much info in the thread." -goes back to his little hole. Not even an RVS to try to see how people react to a vote from you?
null-scum

Glad I wasn't ignored, was going to see how long till someone would mention my one post.

I don't have any thoughts as of writing this sentence. I'm rereading. D1 discussions are rather nonsensical until someone slips up. And then 90% of the time it's a ML anyway.
I don't like to participate in RVS, I think it's bogus.
I answer questions because I prefer them to random votes, although all in all I don't think responses to questions are all that different regardless of alignment.

PM is probably scum. The degree of seriousness was immediate and I find this tends to come off of scum more than townmembers. I've never played anything with him, so I'd need to compare his "tone" to others games. Eye on him. Not completely sure.

KCDA seems town for now. Town points for the early FoSes, actively calling people out like that without fear generally is town.

Hip gives no reasons for his "town reads". Nothing else really of interest yet, although he's pleasant and gives off a bit of a townie feel.

Maru is probably town. For the analysis. Subject to change.

Link is probtown. Responses seem legit.

Cobbler reads town to me.

Ray may seem anti town, but I'm pretty sure he always gives off that feel, having played a game with him. Still, worth to keep an eye on.

Don is null.

Honestly just waiting for this phase to end. I'll throw up a vote when I see fit.

First thing That caught me, 2 scum. everyone else? null town, null, nullscum. If you are gonna post reads like that? wait on em, let them develop. What was the point of posting a list of reads on page 2? If there were so many Null reads, why not wait until like page 5? This was a early grab at town cred, weird but excuseable until....

BTW, just so everyone's aware, we have 6 MLs and 1 NL until MYLO/LYLO.

And my timezone is PST I think.

First red flag. This was post 90-somthing. it was on page 4 WHEN THE VERY DISCUSSION OF THIS ENDED A PAGE AGO. There was NO reason to post this. At this point virtually 2 pages have passed by since his list o reads. no questions for anyone? no FoSes? This was a HUGE reach to seem town.

Yeah it's pretty late, sleeping clock is off.

Quil: Is that a random vote?

Why in the hell would you post the first bit? especially when so much had happened? No comments about me switching around my vote here or in the reads post either. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Ray is getting scummy. I hate 131 with a passion.

My PM wagon is dead so...

VOTE: BBMolla

only wall? "everyone is town."

NOPE.

Sorry about that I'll tell everyone to seem scummier to me.

BTW, just so everyone's aware, we have 6 MLs and 1 NL until MYLO/LYLO.

And my timezone is PST I think.

lynch.
him.
now.

Remember what i was on about? trying to SEEM town? TAKE A WILD GUESS AT WHAT THE BOLDED IS DOING.

If the above part is scummy, the below part is too. They're both just facts.

@Link: Working on suspicions, apparently I misread the whole town.

His defense against my vote. He damn near ADMITS that the second quoted post was scummy. and he never makes a attempt to explain why he posted it. "It's just info."

Alright, I've ISO'd the two primary wagons.

Cobbler doesn't bug me that much, I guess I'm just not seeing his obvious scumminess.

Hiplop does indeed bug me at a second look. Especially a few small things.
His response to being asked to give out his town reads for one, which he never actually did.

so you think everyone is scum* besides you and cobbler? cool

This was a totally irrational thing to say at that moment. I'm aware he mispoke, which is why I fixed his quote, however, his post still comes off as defensive and avoiding of the simple question at hand. What town reads did Matt give off?

I'd support Rays death, Kay.

The way this is worded bugs me. "I'd support a Ray lynch." Fine. But the above? Just kind of strange. Kind of implies he'd be fine with Ray dead regardless of lynch or kill.

Seems to be semi buddying KC also. In addition to the statement above:

KC is interesting; I think he has something going on, but I do agree with LINK and Matt. He does seems be making baseless claims, null tell overall though

This post is like "Well KC is townish but kinda not townish and kinda scummy so I think he's null." ...What.

VOTE: hiplop

This guy really has some explaining to do.

There is NOTHING in the case above that someone hadn't already said. He bring NO new points to the table.

Your vote on me is fine.

VOTE: Cobblerfone

Yeeeeeees.

Could you explain this original vote? I asked you to in #114, but I guess you just ignored it or missed it.

Your vote on me is fine.

Why?

Because I understand the vote.

What in gods name are these two posts? He understands the vote AND DOES NOTHING TO DEFEND AGAINST IT.

Why?

Because in the post I check out the top two wagons and apply pressure to one of them instead of ISOing every player and getting reads on everyone.

Why?

If you'll notice, my first batch of reads were garbage in #95 and I had to reread them to realize that. Nothing has been jumping out to me this game, so instead of letting my vote go to waste by voting a player no one else agrees with or just not voting at all, I decided to trust the town. Considering 4/18 are mafia, I decided the possibility that all three of the people on either wagon being mafia is very small, and that there must be

some

town on either of these wagons.

I looked it over, decided Hip does have some odd things about him, and put my vote on him, contributing to a building amount of pressure.

Buuut knowing you Quil, you just read the first sentence and didn't bother reading the rest.

... so you ADMIT you brought nothing new to the table? just your vote? mmkay.

First off, aplogies for my bitchiness. Part of it is from this big game, there's just so much to consider. I also just don't like day 1. My least favorite day by far.

@Link: I thought my first reads were off because I had so many townreads. Although, thinking about it now, it's not that hard to believe considering 14 of us are town.


Reads, they may be totally different than before.

Reads

Towniest

Link

- Definitely think this guy is town. He's been pestering me to give him more details, and even though he has plenty of reason to, has not jumped on me for not answering them. Always keeps tabs on everybody, focusing everyone in the game, which is really good.

Maru

- Posts a lot, which I find is generally a good thing. Also has been doing a lot of scumhunting, and most of it looks like legit scumhunting.

ProjectMatt

- His reaction to his bandwagon was good, and overall is just giving a town feel.

Cav

- I like his reason for his vote, despite being vague, "guns a blazing" is alright because I also find people who direct attention at everyone but them scummy. Just getting a town feel.

Tomie

- I like post 115 and 205. The rest is pretty much filler.

zMuffin

- Need more posts, but 160 seems good.

Ray

- He's playing very much like he did in my previous game with him where he flipped town, so I'm thinking he's town for now.

Quilford

- I have no idea. Probably town.

DonJosh

- Nothing really atm, need more content, hopefully Mist can provide. I don't like his lack of explanation for his vote.

Scumhunter

- The names a lie.

Sundy

- For sure scum, Post 170 is pretty much a scum admission.

I'm kidding btw, I got nothing.

Descent

- His case on Maru is garbage, so glad he's not voting her. Excepting Maru, his views appear to be very similar to mine.

Cobbler

- Don't see how he can see KC as town. I see a lot of things differently then he does, about Maru too. Not sure if this is just town with a different view, or scum.

KillerJester

- Can't really get an unbiased read. He's tunneling me for no reason. Hasn't even stated why he's voting me.

Empking

- lol. "Post a sentence. No explanations. Later."

KCDA

- Attempting to start bandwagons, pointing random fingers everywhere, his "Everyone should vote who I'm voting," attitude is just bad. I'd say probably scum.

Hiplop

- See here.

Scummiest

So then he scumspects me along with his target hiplop. note he throws the finger at me for Starting wagons and throwing around fingers randomly. mind you my vote came at around... page 5 i wanna say? these reads? PAGE 12. A FULL 7 PAGES LATER AND I'M WAGONING RANDOMLY? HMMMMMMMMM

I still think that the hiplop wagon is shit, but I can totally see why everyone else doesn't see it what I see in him. Having him at the top of your scum list above someone else seems kinda shifty, no matter the player, pretty much everyone has expressed enough actual casework to make someone other than him look worse.

BBmolla: Definitely starting to see the scum there. In particular, the case against the pretty townish Kc. First reads praise him early FOSes and actively calling people out, but now that the votes on him, Kc is pointing fingers and starting bandwagons, even though he already perfectly and reasonably explained why he was doing so. His style is erratic, but there seems to be a method to his madness. Strange that if he really consider all this so scummy, why not vote Kc? I mean seems more solid than the hiplop case. Afraid of getting called on an OMGUS? If he had some actual legitimate reason, he wouldn't have to. Or maybe he just knows he can't get the bandwgon going and doesn't want to try when hiplop is such a low-hanging fruit?

Hiplop is the scummiest on my list. I'd be down for a KC lynch too

, but I don't want to vote him if I'm the only one cause that'll just waste my vote.

And same question to you, if you think I'm scum why aren't you voting me?

Bolding this again. the tone of it SCREAMS of trying to fit in.

That case is crap. It doesn't mean anything. If you can actually put statements side by side and point how they directly contradict each other then there'd be something of substance there. But there isn't, so you're not building it. Because there's nothing to be built upon.

You're throwing a case to throw a case out there and pull a wagon on someone just to create a wagon.

That's not pro-town and it would be a terrible way for a town player to play.

Just to reinforce this,

Ray is getting scummy. I hate 131 with a passion.

My PM wagon is dead so...

VOTE: BBMolla

only wall? "everyone is town."

NOPE.

KCDA is just jumping wagon to wagon trying to get anyone lynched but himself.

and now here we are page 15 and i'm randomly bandwagoning. okay.

There you go. BB is scum.

now vote him.

[Kcdaspot]

I use chainsaw defense (as do some other vets I enjoy playing with) as a means to illustrate a player actively pushing to derail a wagon while persuading others to provide cases on other players without actually doing the work themselves. Its defensive in the sense that it protects them from blame if the player with the wagon is lynched and flips scum and also protects them from blame on the other wagons because other players provided cases in which they can piggyback.

Chainsaws are scummy as fuck brah

[Ray Montano]

I can see you're trying in your case but I think you're just doing that, trying. I can't honestly see much scummy action in your case. The only thing I will agree with you on is that he provided absolutely no original content in his case on hip. The rest, to me, is you tunneling and reaching for tells that aren't really there. I'm torn because you at least but thought into your cases, I just think they're crap but it doesn't scream scum to me. But then you post all this random fluff about absolutely nothing and distract the town from accomplishing anything and I can't tell if you're doing it on purpose or you're just a weak player.

Either way I don't like you. But I can't tell if its because I think you're scum or because I think you're weak.

[Kcdaspot]

yeah well..

I'm not concerned that you don't like me. I found scum, You don't think he's scum. whatever.

[Kcdaspot]

That case is crap. It doesn't mean anything. If you can actually put statements side by side and point how they directly contradict each other then there'd be something of substance there. But there isn't, so you're not building it. Because there's nothing to be built upon.

You're throwing a case to throw a case out there and pull a wagon on someone just to create a wagon.

That's not pro-town and it would be a terrible way for a town player to play.

Just to reinforce this,

Ray is getting scummy. I hate 131 with a passion.

My PM wagon is dead so...

VOTE: BBMolla

only wall? "everyone is town."

NOPE.

KCDA is just jumping wagon to wagon trying to get anyone lynched but himself.

BTW i'm weaker than this?

Really?

[Cobblerfone]

That case is crap. It doesn't mean anything. If you can actually put statements side by side and point how they directly contradict each other then there'd be something of substance there. But there isn't, so you're not building it. Because there's nothing to be built upon.

You're throwing a case to throw a case out there and pull a wagon on someone just to create a wagon.

That's not pro-town and it would be a terrible way for a town player to play.

Just to reinforce this,

Ray is getting scummy. I hate 131 with a passion.

My PM wagon is dead so...

VOTE: BBMolla

only wall? "everyone is town."

NOPE.

KCDA is just jumping wagon to wagon trying to get anyone lynched but himself.

BTW i'm weaker than this?

Really?

Considering his case is untrue (you've been an early voter, if not the first vote on all wagons IIRC) then yeah of course your case is stronger. I can lynch Molla as a compromise lynch. I still prefer Maruchan. I especially didn't like his "woe is me" type post about messing up the quotes.

[killerjester]

To clarify, you think messing up quotes is a scumtell? I must've read that wrong..

[CSL]

The Eleventh votecount of Day 1

Mist7676 -[0]-
Tomie Uzumaki -[0]-
Ray Montano -[0]-
Cobblerfone -[1]- [Hikari Link]
killerjester -[0]-
BBmolla -[6]- [Kcdaspot, Quilford, Empking, Mist7676, killerjester, hiplop] [L-4]
Descent -[0]-
hiplop -[4]- [projectmatt, Maruchan, zMuffinMan, BBmolla]
Scumhunter -[0]-
cavjj -[1]- [Scumhunter]
Empking -[0]-
zMuffinMan -[0]-
Hikari Link -[0]-
projectmatt -[1]- [Ray Montano]
Quilford -[0]-
Maruchan -[2]- [Tomie Uzumaki, Cobblerfone]
Sundy -[0]-
Kcdaspot -[1]- [cavjj]

~Random word(s) of the day: Woof!
~~With 18 alive, it will take 10 to lynch, 9 to no lynch
~~~The deadline is in (expired on 2011-09-04 20:00:00), or

September 4th, 2011 @ 7pm CDT

[Kcdaspot]

hmm. To anyone who still thinks molla is today's lynch: do have any questions or issues about my case?

[killerjester]

Spoiler: goodposting #1

BTW, just so everyone's aware, we have 6 MLs and 1 NL until MYLO/LYLO.

And my timezone is PST I think.

First red flag. This was post 90-somthing. it was on page 4 WHEN THE VERY DISCUSSION OF THIS ENDED A PAGE AGO. There was NO reason to post this. At this point virtually 2 pages have passed by since his list o reads. no questions for anyone? no FoSes? This was a HUGE reach to seem town.

Spoiler: goodposting #2

BTW, just so everyone's aware, we have 6 MLs and 1 NL until MYLO/LYLO.

And my timezone is PST I think.

lynch.
him.
now.

Remember what i was on about? trying to SEEM town? TAKE A WILD GUESS AT WHAT THE BOLDED IS DOING.

If the above part is scummy, the below part is too. They're both just facts.

@Link: Working on suspicions, apparently I misread the whole town.

His defense against my vote. He damn near ADMITS that the second quoted post was scummy. and he never makes a attempt to explain why he posted it. "It's just info."

Spoiler: goodposting #3

Your vote on me is fine.

VOTE: Cobblerfone

Yeeeeeees.

Could you explain this original vote? I asked you to in #114, but I guess you just ignored it or missed it.

Your vote on me is fine.

Why?

Because I understand the vote.

What in gods name are these two posts? He understands the vote AND DOES NOTHING TO DEFEND AGAINST IT.

Spoiler: goodposting #4

I still think that the hiplop wagon is shit, but I can totally see why everyone else doesn't see it what I see in him. Having him at the top of your scum list above someone else seems kinda shifty, no matter the player, pretty much everyone has expressed enough actual casework to make someone other than him look worse.

BBmolla: Definitely starting to see the scum there. In particular, the case against the pretty townish Kc. First reads praise him early FOSes and actively calling people out, but now that the votes on him, Kc is pointing fingers and starting bandwagons, even though he already perfectly and reasonably explained why he was doing so. His style is erratic, but there seems to be a method to his madness. Strange that if he really consider all this so scummy, why not vote Kc? I mean seems more solid than the hiplop case. Afraid of getting called on an OMGUS? If he had some actual legitimate reason, he wouldn't have to. Or maybe he just knows he can't get the bandwgon going and doesn't want to try when hiplop is such a low-hanging fruit?

Hiplop is the scummiest on my list. I'd be down for a KC lynch too

, but I don't want to vote him if I'm the only one cause that'll just waste my vote.

And same question to you, if you think I'm scum why aren't you voting me?

Bolding this again. the tone of it SCREAMS of trying to fit in.

Solid case. BB's tone in all 4 of those cases is in no way coming from a town perspective.

[Empking]

No questions or issues fro me. I agree with Killer.

[zMuffinMan]

Hi,

Apologies for the inactivity. I'm sort of caught up.

Town reads on kcda, link, maru, mist

The only real solid scum read I have atm is hiplop. cavjj is a gut scum read, too. Also made a note to "ISO BB and Cobbler" which I haven't got around to yet.

Will post explanations in the next 1-2 hours. Try not to get to p18 before then, ty.

[BBmolla]

All I can say is I'm not scum and if this goes through it is a day one mislynch, which is no surprise. I'll claim at L-1 or L-2.
I'll start preparing my final post to have some useful info when I'm confirmed town.

Pretty sure there's at least one scum on my wagon right now, and by the end I wouldn't doubt there being two on it. It's an easy wagon to jump on to which is perfect for scum.

The Tenth votecount of Day 1

BBmolla -[6]- [Kcdaspot, Quilford,

Empking

, Mist7676, killerjester, hiplop] [L-4]

Empking has all of four posts. This guy is probably lurkingscum. Please look into this guy further and do not allow him to do this crap all game.
And of course, Hiplop is still scummy.

[Kcdaspot]

wow... ladies and gentlemen, the world greatest defense. *slow mother fucking clap*

[Kcdaspot]

oh i seem to mistyped it anyway

To anyone who still thinks molla

isn't

today's lynch: do have any questions or issues about my case?

[BBmolla]

wow... ladies and gentlemen, the world greatest defense. *slow mother fucking clap*

Not really a defense, just posting for future reference. If I were you I'd stop making posts like this, it's going to make you look like a douche when I flip town.

[Empking]

Empking has all of four posts. This guy is probably lurkingscum. Please look into this guy further and do not allow him to do this crap all game.
And of course, Hiplop is still scummy.

Scum. Z and Scumhunter have equal or less posts and I've just replaced in. (more than one post a day is not notably "lurkingscum".)

[zMuffinMan]

do have any questions or issues about my case?

it's pbpa littered with confirmation bias.

BB is a null->town read for me at the moment, based on past experience with him and the fact he's on the hiplop wagon <-- that alone is a good sign.

kcda, what's your read on hiplop?

[Ray Montano]

No questions or issues fro me. I agree with Killer.

So you have absolutely no thoughts on anything else that's happened so far this game? I mean, coming from you I guess I shouldn't be all that surprised.

oh i seem to mistyped it anyway

To anyone who still thinks molla

isn't

today's lynch: do have any questions or issues about my case?

Yeah I think your case is crap. Coming from someone who is also frustrated with the lack of strong players in this game BB's tone sounds perfectly reasonable to me in all his postings and is no way scummy.

[zMuffinMan]

OK, so.

I still think hiplop is the best bet for hitting scum.

Up to post #135, he'd really just been coasting by with fluff posts. His only real reads at that point were projectmatt as town (for 'defending himself professionally' <- this gave him MAD TOWN VIBES) and ray as scum (or at least requiring death, for.... no reason given).

His response after I pointed this out?

Scumhunting is an interesting concept, what makes you believe I haven't been? I am merely looking for things you may not be.

His idea of scum hunting is looking for things that I may not be looking for and then... uh... um... yeah... The rest of #299 is utter crap. I mean really, look at his reads. How does he have a town read on Empking? And wanna take a guess as to why he's revoked his town read on matt? I'll give you a hint: look at the votecount in #289. He's completely avoided explaining why his read on matt changed, despite being asked multiple times and having multiple opportunities (each time he's simply deflected or ignored the question).

Is anyone seriously reading hiplop as town?

[Maruchan]

MuffinMan, this is why I have been pushing a hiplop scum since the projectmatt wagon was still forming back ten pages ago.

Hiplop is scum, and if he doesn't die today, I hope to god we have a vig to kill him tonight

Nevermind, I realized this is a Open game that doesn't involve a vig I don't think. so much the worse. Ah well.

@Everyone, I am sorry for my lack of activity the past 48 hours. Yesterday my recruiter had me making phone calls and stapling business cards to pamphlets all day, and today we had a huge DEP-BBQ/Picnic event, and I just got home after waking up 12 hours ago for it. For future reference: This is the RARE exception to my activity, not the norm. I doubt I will have such a long absence from the thread again all game.

[Cobblerfone]

After my experience with Muffin I'm willing to sheep the Hiplop vote.

To clarify, you think messing up quotes is a scumtell? I must've read that wrong..

No, the appeal to emotion was scummy.

[killerjester]

Town points for Cobbler.

[CSL]

Bumping over the votecount