NY136: The Death of ReaperCharlie (GAME OVER, Town win!)

[Yosarian2]

And now, I have to go to upstate New York for a family funeral. This has not been a good week.

Going to be V/LA until Sunday, and it's pretty unlikely I'll get any internet access before then. If Iecerint or Toasty have any questions left for me, I'd be glad to answer them then.

[Amrun]

VC6.4

(0) Iecerint
(1) CrashTextDummie - Yosarian2
(1) Yosarian2 - CrashTextDummie
(0) ToastyToast

Not Voting: Iecerint, ToastyToast

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

V/LA: Yosarian2

Deadline: Thursday, September 8, 11 pm EST

Spoiler: Vote History

Iecerint
CrashTextDummie - Yosarian2
Yosarian2 - CrashTextDummie
ToastyToast

[Iecerint]

I'll read the game this weekend and come to a decision. It's hard to find enough free time during the week. <_<

[CrashTextDummie]

Have fun reading, Iece. I'm available if there's any questions.

[Iecerint]

Having looked just at Hrezs in iso, I'm about ready to vote CTD. He has an EXTREME fixation on MBL and Hydra, but he never attacks either of them, and he instead votes other-neighbor DemonHybrid for the usual reasons. His fixation is based on describing questionable things both hypo-buddies do, and then describing them as "anti-town." In spite of this, he somehow lists MBL as his second-scum tier (after DH), even though he only singles out MBL for "asking questions," which is not prima facie scum behavior. This looks to me like bungled distancing from MBL and a misplaced desire to coach both scumfriends.

He also has this really cheeky line:

Every time I go to read this game my brain fries....

I get a very moi vs the game feeling. Not really sure what this means, but it's something I'm taking note of.

Of which the main motivation I can gather is to generate WIFOM on it, so I'm leaning scum on it.

Now I will read CTD and Yos.

[Iecerint]

Confirmation bias could be going HARDCORE at this point, but I am reading scum motivations into almost every CTD post. The one that motivated me to stop reading and blog about it was this one:

I'm glad the Bowser[=Parama] lynch went through. Seeing as I don't agree with Mastin2 on DH (he struck me as group scum, not SK), and I don't find two scum-neighbors very likely at all, it looks like I was on the wrong track yesterday.

Hydra: Your NK-speculation is useless bordering on dangerous. I'd greatly appreciate us not going down that road any further.

Killerjester has all but confirmed himself as scum of some flavor with his posts today. He has a serious hard-on for the SK, virtually all his thinking seems to center around that role. This is a very reliable scumtell in my book. Either he's group scum who spent all night SK-hunting or he's the SK himself. Most amusing is that he got SK-vibes off of DH for not SK-hunting, which is about the clearest possible indicator that he does not have the mindset of a pro-town player.

Either way I want him gone.

vote: killerjester

This is CTD's first post of the day in which KJ was lynched. In other words, there is no evidence of an intentional delay in coming out with information as per CTD's suggestion. Earlier today, CTD pointed out that a rolecop with SK information would not have sat on the information before counter-claiming. This is in fact basically exactly what CTD did -- he came out immediately using hyperbolic-if-he's-just-a-doctor "all but confirmed" language that was probably designed to set-up a possible investigative claim down the line if it ended up that the Tracker was the only such town role (which would be quite plausible if the scum had a rolecop IMO). I think Yos was correct on this point earlier.

Note also CTD calling out Hydra for "dangerous, useless" play here, but being convinced he was town down the line.

I think CTD misrepresented his own play D3, so I'm basically convinced he's the one, especially given Hrezs's play, the structure of his replace-in posts, and the players CTD has targeted all game.

I'm going to read Yos, too, just to see if I also confirmation-bias his iso everywhere.

[ToastyToast]

FYI, I'm also reading up kayyyy

[ToastyToast]

Hresz was super scummy, thats a great point.
Also, CTD would've been under lots of suspicion if not for that doc claim.

[Iecerint]

Hresz is even WORSE, if it's possible, when you know that Hydra and MBL are the scumbuddies.

Yos is tomorrow.

[Iecerint]

Yos's iso doesn't do a lot for me tbh. So fuck.

[Yosarian2]

I'm back from V/LA now, so I'm here to answer any questions or anything.

[Amrun]

VC6.5

(0) Iecerint
(1) CrashTextDummie - Yosarian2
(1) Yosarian2 - CrashTextDummie
(0) ToastyToast

Not Voting: Iecerint, ToastyToast

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

V/LA:

Deadline: Thursday, September 8, 11 pm EST

Spoiler: Vote History

Iecerint
CrashTextDummie - Yosarian2
Yosarian2 - CrashTextDummie
ToastyToast

[Iecerint]

Toasty, did you come to any conclusions?

[ToastyToast]

Yosarian has less connections to the scum team is the main thing I got from skimming.
I just find his posts to be very long-winded...in the way where it looks like someone trying too hard to look good.

Hrezs was my first vote. Really, the only thing that stopped me from lynching CTD was the doctor CC.
Also, having a doc in a setup like this would be ordinary. The fact that he counterclaimed a SK, and not another scum-member, seems an odd play (if we look at him as scum).

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian has less connections to the scum team is the main thing I got from skimming.
I just find his posts to be very long-winded...in the way where it looks like someone trying too hard to look good.

Since when is writing long, detailed posts supposed to be a scumtell? Putting all your thoughts down on paper is generally good for the town. In any case, I usually end up writing long posts at some point in the game.

Also, having a doc in a setup like this would be ordinary. The fact that he counterclaimed a SK, and not another scum-member, seems an odd play (if we look at him as scum).

It makes sense if he's the scum role-cop who knew that killerjester was the SK; counterclaim the SK, get yourself fake-confirmed as the doctor, without sacrificing a member of your team to do it. And if you look at CTD's posts from that day, it fits; he was trying to lynch that slot from the very start of the day.

[Iecerint]

Yosarian has less connections to the scum team is the main thing I got from skimming.
I just find his posts to be very long-winded...in the way where it looks like someone trying too hard to look good.

I agree with this.

Hrezs was my first vote. Really, the only thing that stopped me from lynching CTD was the doctor CC.

Mine, too.

Agree with the second bit, also. Though the fact I noticed he went for KJ aggressively D3 from his very first post makes this worry me less.

Also, having a doc in a setup like this would be ordinary. The fact that he counterclaimed a SK, and not another scum-member, seems an odd play (if we look at him as scum).

Well, he didn't claim it until it looked like KJ wasn't going to be lynched. At first, he just breadcrumbed some investigative results on KJ and pushed. He didn't counter-claim until it looked like people'd believe the doc claim.

The Town Alien might've been our "doc."

[ToastyToast]

@Yosarian: Its not the length but the substance that makes something scummy. Scum often make bloated posts with minimal information, and also do so to put off people reading the game. Given that I replaced in the game, this makes me see someone making catching-up a huge pain in the ass, which is often done by scum on purpose. I'm not saying to change your playing style, but I can see scum reasons to talk in such a way.

[Amrun]

Prodding CrashTextDummie.

[CrashTextDummie]

Hi, I appologize. Had some unexpected business creeping up on me over the weekend.

Having looked just at Hrezs in iso, I'm about ready to vote CTD. He has an EXTREME fixation on MBL and Hydra, but he never attacks either of them, and he instead votes other-neighbor DemonHybrid for the usual reasons. His fixation is based on describing questionable things both hypo-buddies do, and then describing them as "anti-town." In spite of this, he somehow lists MBL as his second-scum tier (after DH), even though he only singles out MBL for "asking questions," which is not prima facie scum behavior. This looks to me like bungled distancing from MBL and a misplaced desire to coach both scumfriends.

I just had a look at Rezs' ISO, and I don't see an extreme fixation on MBL and Hydra. He didn't attack MBL for "asking questions" either, he very clearly articulated why he had a legitimate problem with him ("It comes across that he doesn't want to put forth content or interact with the players"). If anything, he should be commended for sniffing out MBL at a point when no one else, to the best of my recollection, was paying attention to him.

Obviously I have a different perspective on his posts and it's a lot easier to see posts for what they are when you actually know the alignment of the player in question, but I don't really see what the deal here is.

This is CTD's first post of the day in which KJ was lynched. In other words, there is no evidence of an intentional delay in coming out with information as per CTD's suggestion. Earlier today, CTD pointed out that a rolecop with SK information would not have sat on the information before counter-claiming. This is in fact basically exactly what CTD did -- he came out immediately using hyperbolic-if-he's-just-a-doctor "all but confirmed" language that was probably designed to set-up a possible investigative claim down the line if it ended up that the Tracker was the only such town role (which would be quite plausible if the scum had a rolecop IMO). I think Yos was correct on this point earlier.
[...]
I think CTD misrepresented his own play D3.

Several things about this:
1. I did not misrepresent my play at all. I never claimed not to have had a scum read on KJ. I caught him using a very reliable scumtell and explained this in great detail.
2. Even just a cursory glance at any the games I have ever played on this site would reveal to you that I use this kind of "hyperbolic language" in every single game I play. And this is NOT a hyperbolic statement. It didn't even occur to me that this could be construed as "some kind of breadcrumb". This is how I play.
2. You commended me at the time for a huge wall post I made against KJ. Why the hell would I have bothered with that if I was just waiting to spring an investigation on him.

Note also CTD calling out Hydra for "dangerous, useless" play here, but being convinced he was town down the line.

If I hadn't had a strong town read on him, I would have called him scummy for it. I thought he was a townie going down a potentially dangerous tangent. I don't see your problem here.

What's wrong with the structure of my replace-in posts?

Hresz was super scummy, thats a great point.
Also, CTD would've been under lots of suspicion if not for that doc claim.

Meransiel and Mastin immediately pegged me as town when I replaced in. Shanba also developed a strong town read before the counter-claim. Iecerint never had me among his suspects. The only townies who voiced suspicions on me where yourself and DX. To say that I was in desperate need of town cred simply isn't true.

I'd like to write more, but it's 1:30 AM and I need sleep. Hopefully more tomorrow.

[ToastyToast]

@CTD: but claiming doc would be a sexy gambit that paid off

[Iecerint]

2. You commended me at the time for a huge wall post I made against KJ. Why the hell would I have bothered with that if I was just waiting to spring an investigation on him.

If you were scum, you would probably want to lynch him without claiming because you would put yourself into a probable 1/1 with any other town investigative roles still out there (in this game, it would've put you in one with DX).

[CrashTextDummie]

@CTD: but claiming doc would be a sexy gambit that paid off

Any power role claim has the potential to be a "sexy gambit". Have you seen many successful scum fake-countering SKs?

If you were scum, you would probably want to lynch him without claiming because you would put yourself into a probable 1/1 with any other town investigative roles still out there (in this game, it would've put you in one with DX).

You completely lost me. Why would I

not

want to get into a 1/1 with any other town investigative roles when I am holding 100% provable information in hand? And why would I want to lynch him without claiming when that would completely invalidate any kind of edge such an investigation would give? Claim the next day that "oh by the way, I had a guilty on him, lulz"?

And which one is it now, did I breadcrumb an investigation result because it looked plausible to me that tracker was the only investigative town role or did I fear running into another investigative role and therefore put several hours into "one of the most worth-reading wallposts on MS in recent memory"?

This is so dumb, seriously.

[CrashTextDummie]

Iecerint, please ask yourself how you would play as a scum rolecop with a result on the SK and then contrast it with my play. ALL of my D3 posts, not just the first.

[CrashTextDummie]

And then ask yourself how you would have played that day as a doc with a strong scum read on KJ.

[Iecerint]

You completely lost me. Why would I not want to get into a 1/1 with any other town investigative roles when I am holding 100% provable information in hand? And why would I want to lynch him without claiming when that would completely invalidate any kind of edge such an investigation would give? Claim the next day that "oh by the way, I had a guilty on him, lulz"?

Because claiming when it's unnecessary is unnecessary. This part would apply whether you were a town Cop or scum who wanted to claim it.

Later on, you would say "oh by the way, i had a guilty on him, that is why I used "confirmation" language like that to crumb."

And which one is it now, did I breadcrumb an investigation result because it looked plausible to me that tracker was the only investigative town role or did I fear running into another investigative role and therefore put several hours into "one of the most worth-reading wallposts on MS in recent memory"?

1. Anyone can make readable posts. That doesn't make you town.
2. When I am scum, I do such things to cover my bases.

I will grant that your incredulity (here and earlier) appears genuine, though....

Deadline is tomorrow. I am inclined to No Lynch.

P-Edit: As a doc, I don't think I would not have claimed that someone unconfirmed was "all but confirmed" (hence my taking issue with your hyperbolic language, which I interpret as a breadcrumb, and you insist is par for the course) or actively take such a dramatic stance. This is part of what bothered me about that post.