NY136: The Death of ReaperCharlie (GAME OVER, Town win!)

[MrBuddyLee]

Hi, everyone.

vote: petroleumjelly

for the questionable content of his first post.

[MrBuddyLee]

Oh by the way me DH and kondi are neighbors and in our neighborhood QT kondi said he wanted to be lynched which is why me and DH are voting him to oblivion.

Paraphrasing kondi's first and only post of the QT:

"Hey guys! You are awesome neighbors!

You can lynch me sometime, but not Day 1. I want to be able to confirm you guys as neighbors in the future when it's a critical time to do so."

Can you two please be more specific on why you believe kondi's the best lynch for today?

[MrBuddyLee]

Imma reread.

When did you read for the first time?

[MrBuddyLee]

Cool, so now that klondi is town, there's probably one scum between Parama and DemonHybrid.

I’m in pretty much full agreement with AGM that 1 of the 3 probably is Mafia or a Serial Killer of some sort.

@Parama and DH

: Do you agree with the above statements?

[MrBuddyLee]

I'd be voting for Parama right now were it not for the fact that he was so willing to out the 3 of us.

Why was Parama's willingness to out the neighborship pro-town in your eyes?

[MrBuddyLee]

Cool, so now that klondi is town, there's probably one scum between Parama and DemonHybrid.

I'd gladly trade 1 town for 1 scum - and that's the worst case odds, since it assumes we lynch the town player first and not the scum player (if we lynch the scum player first, then we're just done).

If one of you is acting even remotely scummy, we're getting the ropes out.

Ok. Why aren't you voting for either one of them right now? Which one do you want to lynch at this moment, and why?

[MrBuddyLee]

unvote, vote: SensFan

@Meransiel

, at the time you rolefished the neighbors, how many scum did you suspect were in the neighborhood, and if any, who did you think were the most likely scum? Has your opinion changed since then?

@Iecerint

, please make your Meransiel-town case more clearly.

@kondi

, why did you choose to follow one of your neighbors and not the other one?

@DH and Parama

, what's this all about, and was it prior to D1 or prior to receiving alignments?

Me and DH had already agreed to push this (kondi) lynch prior to the game.

Meransiel is 2nd on my scumlist

Who was first and why?

vote: MoI he's scum. Lots of misrep and he's happy to dodge any question thrown his way.

Please clarify.

@PJ

, what are your thoughts on each of the neighbors?

@Yos

, what do you think of DH and Parama?

[MrBuddyLee]

You said "lots of misrep" and I only found one weak example of you accusing MoI of misrepresenting you.

The conversation has already been paraphrased at least once <_<

was it prior to D1 or prior to receiving alignments?

[MrBuddyLee]

Don't like MBL's vote of Sensfan. It's

literally

the first time he's mentioned his name and he doesn't even attempt to explain it.

How many reasons are there to vote SensFan right now? If you give me a second reason, I'll give you a cookie.

How sold are you on that SensFan vote of yours? You don't seem thrilled to have company on the wagon.

[MrBuddyLee]

unvote, vote: Parama

asking people a bunch of questions is not the same as scum-hunting.

@Meransiel

: Can you please clarify your current stances on Parama and DH?

@Parama

: What do you think of Meransiel?

[MrBuddyLee]

I believe SensFan is the only player in the game who hasn't made a single attempt to scumhunt. kondi and SnowWhite aren't exactly lighting it up, but at least they've dipped their toes in. SensFan was active on three separate days and didn't show an ounce of curiosity. But if SensFan isn't picking up prods, I'm anticipating a replacement, and I'd like to stir up more action before our July 5th deadline.

I don't like the nature of Parama's attack on MoI. It seems to be focused more on MoI's style than suspicions, and when I asked for clarification from Parama on the meat of the suspicions, I got the Heisman. When I asked for clarification on his early suspicion of kondi, I got the Shaft.

[MrBuddyLee]

@Parama

: What are your current reads on AGM and Yosarian?

@saporo

: How did you get an initial town read on AlmasterGM? What's your take on AGM, Hydra, and Parama now?

@Almaster:

SCUM: Hydra, PBuG, Meransiel, SensFan, Hrezs (maybe), a lurker (probably Snow White, she only has one post and it's pretty bad (defends Meransiel)).

Why don't you have a neighbor in your scumlist?

@Hydra

: You've directed the vig to at least three players. Can you please rank them in order of scumminess and give your reasoning?

@DH

: What's your take on Yosarian?

@Yos

: What's your take on Parama?

@Meransiel

:

Vote: AGM

@Almaster: I explained why I have a null read on you, and why I have a town read on Yos.

Who's your #2 suspect, and why are you voting a null read?

[MrBuddyLee]

@Almaster:

SCUM: Hydra, PBuG, Meransiel, SensFan, Hrezs (maybe), a lurker (probably Snow White, she only has one post and it's pretty bad (defends Meransiel)).

Why don't you have a neighbor in your scumlist?

@Parama

, what are your opinions of Meransiel and saporovirus?

[MrBuddyLee]

@AlmasterGM

, your worldview is inconsistent. You strongly believe one neighbor is scum. You think Parama is slightly scummier than DH. Your list of five scum:

SCUM: Hydra, PBuG, Meransiel, SensFan, Hrezs (maybe), a lurker (probably Snow White)

doesn't include either of them, conflicting directly with your neighbors theory.


You analyzed one of Parama's posts and found it consistent with scum behavior. You told people that their presence on the DH wagon supports your neighborhood theory. Yet you don't seem to be interested in analyzing either of them. Your only comment on DH is kudos for pointing out rolefishing. Your only comment on Parama points to his "three townie neighborhood" theory. It doesn't feel like you've made the least bit of effort to figure out which, if either, neighbor is scum. You've simply sat on your hypothesis.

In this post http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3149002 you say "we" need to discern which is scummier first, and then you make no effort to discern for the rest of the game.


Your Snow White vote completes the story that you're not interested in following through on your hypothesis. Despite your entire world in this game revolving around a neighbor being scum, you're avoiding voting a neighbor like the plague. The possibilities:

1) You're scum with DemonHybrid and are hoping a third wagon comes up
2) You're scum with Parama and have kept your vote off him despite him being your leading neighborhood scum suspect
3) You're scum with kondi and don't want to be caught on a Parama or DH wagon when they flip
4) You're scum, all neighbors are town, and you're encouraging your theory without voting in hopes it will get three townies lynched eventually
5) You're a serial killer, and you're using your hypothesis to sow suspicion in a wide arc away from yourself
6) You're town, and you're so genuinely uncertain which, if any, of Parama/DH/kondi is scum that you can't bring yourself to vote any of them

(6) makes the least sense, and I'm going to move my vote to you unless you explain to me how it does. (1) looks unlikely--I think you'd have joyously hopped on your scumpartner by this point in order to gain town cred. Also, if you're scum together, you couldn't possibly do a worse job of distancing than by avoiding each others' wagons when you're head-to-head at deadline.

(2) looks like a decent bet--it's the best explanation why you left all the neighbors off your scumlist. My initial thought on (4) is that scum wouldn't want to risk confirming three town with your theory followed by your death, but that's WIFOMmable. (5) is a tough call--you've given scumpoints to eleven players and that'd be risky as an SK.

Please explain why (6) makes sense, and please go into more detail about your thoughts on specific players including Meransiel, MoI and Parama.

ppe: Beyond that, you have said that you believe MoI is town unless Meransiel is scum. (You sheep Iecerint on that opinion.) Meransiel appears to be your top suspect at this time. Yet you haven't poked at MoI at all, or asked him about his opinion of Meransiel. If you really suspected they were scum together, I'd expect you to probe that relationship. It's also odd that you suspected Meransiel 48 hours after the game began, a five-person wagon arose on Meransiel, and you avoided it to stay on your initial Hydra vote for very thin reasons.

[MrBuddyLee]

@Hydra

: You've directed the vig to at least three players. Can you please rank them in order of scumminess and give your reasoning?

@Parama

, what are your opinions of Meransiel and saporovirus?

@Shanba

, why do you have Parama as a townread?

@saporo

, who's your top suspect and why?

@Meransiel

, same question.

@Yos

, same question.

[MrBuddyLee]

@MrBuddyLee

, you seem to be asking far more questions than usual and giving far fewer opinions than usual. Could you explain why?

Spoiler:

MBL, I'm sorry if this offends you, but I feel like a vast majority of your questions accomplish little to nothing.

Do you ever even follow up on your questions, MBL?

other then the Ecto wagon, you haven't given much in the way of useful reads on people; a lot of interesting questions, but I don't know what, if anything, you've gotten out of the answers to all of those questions.

I meant in a very concise format instead of a wall. Walls have their place, but they also promote obfuscation. I want a one or two word read on him from you, MBL.

I just wanted to note this quote that is MBL saying he doesn't obfuscate as town after 200 obfuscating walls.

The questions are what catch scum. I'm undefeated as town since returning to MS (and I found at least 4 scum in the game I just got modkilled in.), primarily because I ask scum the questions that are difficult to answer. My old thought was that posting my stream of consciousness thoughts on who I think might be scum was helpful to town. I'm learning that most people here consider those to be useless and annoying.

I got lynched as town for the first time in three years, which was super lame considering I nailed both remaining scum in that game.

So I'm trying to cut back on the "fluff". I'm fine with answering questions.


My top suspect was Parama before Snow White/mastin apparently claimed scum.

@mastin

, why'd you claim that role now?

[MrBuddyLee]

@Parama

, you haven't done an ounce of scumhunting in your last 22 posts. And 23 posts ago, you said:

Hey look, you took my quote out of context (sorta) and then asked me to clarify. Funnily enough, I clarified plenty in that post and in previous posts made, but when you take things out of context you lose all that, don't you?

Which was a load of bull. Quite honestly, if you're town, why are you playing this game? You don't seem to enjoy the process of ferreting out scum in the least.


saporo, why did you unvote?

Just for the record, I never actually said I had a town read on Parama, MBL.

I misinterpreted this, then:

All I have on the neighbourhood is town reads.

@Shanba

, I agree with you that Parama's kondi-clear seemed pro-town at the time. But the totality of his behavior has been scummy. Hopping on wagons, not scumhunting, and when I called him on the weaselly reasons given for his MoI vote, he dodged the question. Plus lots of excuses for why he's not scumhunting--I count at least 11. The last person I saw make that many excuses was... Amrun, in Frogs 2...

Why do you see him as townish besides the "kondi townslip" thing?

@Hrezs

: Why do you think DH is scum and Parama SK, and not vice-versa?

I still think DH is scum
don't know about Parama, he might be the sk?

vote: Parama

[MrBuddyLee]

@MrBuddyLee

, I want your opinion on Yosarian2.

Possible scum. He settled for an AGM vote all day on the "one neighbor is scum chain lynch" reasoning, and was more theory than scumhunting D1. Didn't really assess Parama, saporo, Shanba, Hrez, PJ or me D1. Expressed willingness to sheep you on to Meransiel despite not really finding Meransiel scummy, which was odd.

He was fairly quick to clear kondi and Sens, which is somewhat townish behavior if kondi's town.

[MrBuddyLee]

@PJ

, you're voting Hrez and using "undelivered promise of scumhunting" as an overt reason. Why did you unvote Parama despite him also not delivering on him multiple promises of scumhunting?

@saporo

, why aren't you voting for anyone?

@Shanba

, I agree with you that Parama's kondi-clear seemed pro-town at the time. But the totality of his behavior has been scummy. Hopping on wagons, not scumhunting, and when I called him on the weaselly reasons given for his MoI vote, he dodged the question. Plus lots of excuses for why he's not scumhunting--I count at least 11. The last person I saw make that many excuses was... Amrun, in Frogs 2...

Why do you see him as townish besides the "kondi townslip" thing?

@Hrezs

: Why do you think DH is scum and Parama SK, and not vice-versa?

I still think DH is scum
don't know about Parama, he might be the sk?

@Yos

, your D1 words don't match up with your D2 words and actions.

Today, you posited:

at the end of day 1, Parama started acting incredibly scummy

But yesterday (D1), when he was posting, you said:

On a side note, Parama's most recent posts are somewhere between useless and terrible. Post better, give better answers to PJ's questions.

Which sounds more like you think he's shitty town.

Today, you started the day with no vote for some reason. Then, the mastin thing hit and cleared up. You were active on the site Thursday night but didn't register a vote. Only after three people hopped the Parama wagon did you register your displeasure with him, your first real attack upon him, and your first vote of the day. Why the reticence?

[MrBuddyLee]

Hi, CTD!

[MrBuddyLee]

@Parama

, I wasted another twenty minutes of my life trying to figure out what your deal is. It was not particularly interesting. I checked out your site meta. You seem to be a nice kid with a lot of creativity and smarts, but I went back three months and didn't really find a post where you scumhunted. You seem more interested in looking cool and edgy and having fun, which is fine I suppose, but not fun for your townmates. In one game where you were scum, you said:

my play in this game is not representative of how I usually play

and another as scum:

I've been sucking a lot lately forever it seems.

• Your only vote today was on Mastin.
  
• You've analyzed half the game.
  
• You wouldn't clarify your shady MoI vote reasons when asked.
  
• You're not motivated to find scum.
  
• Your current analysis post is underwhelming, and it appears two of your top three suspects as a result of it are Iece and Meransiel.

cons of lynching you:

you might be town--you certainly haven't been scumhunting as town lately

pros of lynching you:

get rid of an "unreadable" player, karma for you telling PJ to

SCREW OFF

when he politely asked you a question, you might be scum, take away the vote of a player who doesn't give a shit.

If you have anything to claim, please do it now so we have time to analyze properly before Wednesday.

[MrBuddyLee]

Do you have an actual case, or are you just going to use your confirmed town status to lead the entire town in totally the wrong direction by just announcing over and over again that certain people are scum when you're pretty clearly wrong about everything?

Can you please be more specific about the "everything" mastin's wrong about? For reference:

Town
Iec
Mastin
Meransiel
MBL
PJ
Hydra
ToastyToast

Hmm
Pine
CTD
Yos
Shanba

Scum
DemonHybrid
saporovirus
Parama

[MrBuddyLee]

Yos: Do you think PJ is scum?

@Shanba

: Do you think PJ is scum? You haven't given an opinion, or maybe I'm blind.

Your play is pretty different from what it was in Oldy. In that game, I had my eye on you for the first few days, but Ether was right that you kind of bled town when you posted. I'm not seeing that in this game. What's the deal? Also, you still owe me an answer from this January 13th question:

Shanba, how's your play different in this game than you play as scum?

@PJ

: Considering deadline's in three days, do you really think a Yos wagon is happening?

[MrBuddyLee]

vdsvcdvfsDVSjv24g jvidsfjoviFJSVDnfs vnnt2o4itfjdsjDVGASo;jidsiI#EW#(*(O:IIIIDIFVJDEIFJDKIVVDVMKDMMKKMKKMNKMKMMMMMMNOLEFDFDF DFASF ADFCV AEF @QR DFADFVQEF SAEDF QFEADFEFAESW DFA DGFAS DFASDFAS DGFAE GFASD FAEWDGAEDGZADVGZADGFAEST#QE T#QDGFADGAEDGAEGRET#QT#QDTGAEDGADFAEDFADFASTGQEWdgnfscdgzn

no coded messages allowed plz

[MrBuddyLee]

You know, if you're trying to insinuate that I am trying to (i) save Bowser from being lynched, or (ii) get the Town to No-Lynch, just say it.

Considering you stated specifically that you'd move to Parama in a heartbeat, that wasn't the point of the question. I'm more curious to know why Yosarian and not saporovirus or DemonHybrid, who you claim to suspect, and who each have small wagons on them.

[MrBuddyLee]

Furthermore, the "small wagon" on DemonHyrbid only consists of Hrezs' vote. And since Hrezs has been replaced by CrashTextDummie, and CrashTextDummie has still not read the entire game, that's not really something I would even consider to be a true vote at the moment unless he affirms it to be in line with his actual opinion on who to vote.

Actually, CTD has weighed in, finding DH scummy. This sounds like an excuse from you, not a legitimate read of the current situation.

What's your opinion of DH right now?

Since you asked nicely for opinions, I'm leaning towards Parama-scummish, saporo-scummish, DH-townish. Big picture, Parama is scum for previously stated reasons, saporo pushed DH as a legit and non-bussish lynch and hopped on and off Parama oddly. Paramascum would benefit by keeping DH-town around for protection, and DH's approach to the game generally comes across as townish to me. Other players tie in to this picture, but those three fit together the tightest.


I didn't like this recent post from saporo:

I am down for the Hrezs wagon. His posts of content have mainly been things others have already argued aaaand flakiness.

after giving this reason for hopping off the Parama wagon:

saporo, why did you unvote?

He was at L2 when I counted. Too early for anyone to be this close to a hammer.

She unvoted, claimed to be waiting for his big content post:

I am willing to wait for your amazing content though.

unvote

then didn't comment on it when it arrived and instead sleazed over to Hrez. Does not make sense at all from a town perspective.

If saporo is scum protecting Parama, Hrez/CTD is probably town who's the alternative lynchbait today, but that's getting far afield.

[MrBuddyLee]

what am I "making excuses" for, MrBuddyLee? Not voting for DemonHybrid?

"I suspect Yos more than DH" is the answer I was expecting from PJtown and didn't get. This was a weird justification for a vote:

As for why I am voting Yosarian2 over DemonHybrid, the only answer would be that Yosarian2 just did something that made me want to vote for him right now whereas DemonHybrid has not.

Acting like a single vote from a player who was replaced constitutes a "small wagon" seems like a pretty blatant manipulation of reality.

It's three days from deadline, which is generally a time when wagons coalesce rather than scatter, and I asked you why you voted for Yosarian instead of voting for the guy who you voted for a few days back, who happens to have a vote on him. What I'm trying to say here is that your suspicions of DemonHybrid seem really thin, and I asked for clarification.

[MrBuddyLee]

Leaning scummy: CrashTextDummies, DemonHybrid (note: DH is probably town if para is scum, although mastin’s theory is cute), petroleumjelly

Scum: Parama

I actually changed my mind again, BECAUSE of the way PJ started attacking me again I changed my mind again and decided he was probably town after all

I don't really see why DH is scummy, for the most part. He's made some weird posts, but he hasn't been nearly as anti-town as Parama.

@Yos

, what changed in your mind about DH between Saturday and yesterday? You had him leaning scummy but then said you don't see why he's scummy. Was the change evidence-driven?

If you boost DH and PJ into your town category, who do you find scummy at this point besides Parama and Hrez?


Also, do you think CTD is scummy for his push on you? Here, you accuse him of inaccuracy, but then you seem to talk to him as if he's a townie as opposed to accusing him of scummy misrepresentation.

There isn't any "jumping to conclusions" in my argument at all, CTD. Yes, i was wrong about AGM, and that sucks. Pro-town people are wrong about 50%-70% of the time on day 1, learn to deal with the fact.

[MrBuddyLee]

DH posted the definitive case against Shanba. Has anyone played against Shanbascum enough to know whether outright defense of scumpartners is his style as scum?

I'm less likely to pay close attention to detail as scum
I'm more likely to lurk as scum
I like playing scum less and am therefore less likely to get involved with the game.

I love this honesty. Thank you.


I'm feeling saporo as scum more powerfully than I'm feeling Shanba. Yesterday, saporo jumped off Parama at L-2 to give him a chance to make his case, then jumped on Hrez instead of back on Parama without explaining the logic behind her abandonment of the Paramawagon.

KJ entered the game and claimed to find Parama suspect, which looked less sketchy than saporo's blatant protection. A few questions.

I don't think Demon is the SK.
DH hasn't given me the vibes of an SK
I'm more confident about you(DH) being town now that Bowser's flipped scum, as I've said before I think there was only one scum in the neighbors.

@KJ

: Can you please go into a little more detail on your DH comments? Also on this:

Out of Demon and Shanba, one of them is very likely to be scum.

You seemed to have had strong scumvibes on DH, but apparently they were specific to him being mafia, not SK? What's the nature of that read of yours? My initial take is that you seem to have had DemonHybrid locked in as your neighborscum as an alternative to Paramascum, but you didn't seem to consider the possibility that both could be scum/SK. So I'd like to hear a little more about your significantly nuanced DH read.

[MrBuddyLee]

I could go for a killerjester lynch

@Shabs

, can you please go into more detail on how you perceive killerjester?


Other than saporo, who looks like prototypical scum to me, I'm uncomfortable about how much of a black box Pine remains at this point. It's never good to have little or no clue about a player to start day three. We need a replacement. (Sorry, Amrun. )


Looking for possible partners with saporo, Yos's opinion of her is floaty:

SV seems town-ish to me right now. Stuff like where on day 1 she questioned DH about the Kondi thing, and when he answered, she unvoted him based on his answers feels honestly town to me.

saporovirus: Not really a fan of her day 1 play. I like that she defended me against PJ on day 2, heh. (Ok, it's hard for me to be unbiased about this, but that defensive posts feels town-ish to me).

Null: Hydra, MBL, saporovirus

@Yos

: What's the latest scoop on saporo? Also, can you please read off your top four scum with reasons?


CTD also slowplayed saporo:

I do have notes on saporovirus and earworm, but it's very minor stuff that doesn't seem worth posting.

saporovirus is playing a very low-key game. About 10 contest-posts over the entirety of D1, and short ones at that. There's nothing in his play I found terribly objectionable (including his hammer), but his volume is borderline. No verdict.

grey glob of goo:
saporovirus

but now seems willing to come aboard with force as DH, MBL, Iece, mastin, toasty, and Hydra all came into D3 with KJ suspicions. Late to the game after a couple of mealy-mouthed posts about saporo D2.

More in a bit.. lunch is here.

[MrBuddyLee]

@Xanatos

, what's your take on killerjester?

ps. Thank you for replacing in.

[MrBuddyLee]

Posting from vacation.

@Xanatos

, can you please explain why you find the KJ-saporo slot townish?

@Yos

, welcome back. Hope you enjoyed your vacation.

Yos's opinion of her is floaty:

SV seems town-ish to me right now. Stuff like where on day 1 she questioned DH about the Kondi thing, and when he answered, she unvoted him based on his answers feels honestly town to me.

saporovirus: Not really a fan of her day 1 play. I like that she defended me against PJ on day 2, heh. (Ok, it's hard for me to be unbiased about this, but that defensive posts feels town-ish to me).

Null: Hydra, MBL, saporovirus

@Yos

: What's the latest scoop on saporo?

[MrBuddyLee]

We're failing at life because we're not voting.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm on a four day work trip. I'll be back tomorrow and will hopefully be able to give this game a proper roll in the hay. Right now I'm using you all for diversion and amusement, so thank you for that.

[MrBuddyLee]

Two techniques for scumhunting right now. Look for someone who tried to defuse the Parama lynch with suspect logic or who got on his wagon with no logic. Look for scummy people who've been consistently making their strongest attacks against townies.

I have a scumlist in my head that goes something like this: killerjester >> Shanba, Xanatos, CTD, Yos > Toasty, Hydra, Demonhybrid >> Iecerint > mastin.

Spoiler: Who was hot and heavy on townies D1?

Biggest wagons:
(6) Meransiel (town) - Hrezs, Shanba, DemonHybrid, kondi2424, Hydra, petroleumjelly
(5) Hydra (probnotscum) - AlmasterGM, SensFan, Ythan,

Parama

, DemonHybrid
(5) DemonHybrid (probnotscum) - saporovirus, PBuG, Iecerint, MagnaofIllusion, Hrezs

Hrez shows up on two. Bump that bitch up a notch. DH on two, but are there really two scum in the neighborhood? Naw. Looking at the specific cases made (or lack thereof), saporo attacked both Parama and DH in this post: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p3152038 . The DH case is weak and the Parama point is decent, but she votes and sticks on DH, which doesn't make sense. Hrez's pushes were on Merans, Hydra, DH, MBL for terrible reasons. Shanba's D1 play is really weak and lurky. Most passion shown for Meransiel wagon. He gave no reasons for his Sens vote and only "demotivation is scummy" for his AGM vote.

Spoiler: Who was not just anti-Parama-wagon, but anti- in untenable ways?

This is where it makes sense to start reading: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3214795

Example 1: saporo got angry at Mastin for this:

DH IS THE SK HA HA SK PLZ KILL PARAMA

At the time, a nightkill of Parama would have been cherry, so it's odd that saporo saw that as a) a negative trait of mastin and b) a negative thing in general.

Example 2: After listing this as a primary reason for her vote on Parama:

One of you 3 is scum and it's not kondi and it's probably not you.

saporo unvoted Parama to give him a chance to defend, then switched off Parama after he made his analysis post. In the same post she unvotes, she says:

there simply can't be a 3 town neighborhood

Why switch to Hrez when you're "pretty damned sure" a neighbor is scum and you think kondi and DH are town?

In my professional opinion, Shanba's defense of Parama is less scummy. I'm biased by the fact that Shanba was voting saporo as an alternative wagon. Voting saporo, not pushing saporo, which bothers me a little. I'm torn on whether or not to believe:

I wanted saporovirus or at least someone to question me about those votes

considering:

And obviously I would like him(Shanba) to explain his vote on me.

never got answered.

[MrBuddyLee]

KJ just claimed doctor, MBL.

Yeah, I see that now. Not sure how I missed it. My initial instinct is "bullshit" but meh. Rereading.

[MrBuddyLee]

Ha. Did you really decide overnight that I was the best choice for a mislynch? Ain't happening.

vote: Xanatos

[MrBuddyLee]

Ok. Xanatos is scum. He needs four more votes to get his desired mislynch. Good luck with that. I'm guessing the scumteam went with a gambit today because their odds of lynching town didn't look good, and because they're running out of options. They picked the wrong person to mess with.

Yos pretty much has to be X's scumpartner at this point. If Yos was town, I'm pretty sure X would have claimed his fake result on Yos instead of on me, or just pushed for a Yos lynch instead of a MBL lynch today without bothering to risk the fakeclaim. The fakeclaim play is actually probably optimal coming from a Yos+X scumteam--they saw the lynch+vig writing on the wall and went proactive.

They don't appear to have mentioned each other yesterday. In fact, here's part of the post Xanatos claims to have held back on yesterday:

8.

CrashTextDummie

- Unknown.
13.

Yosarian2

- Unknown.
14.

Shanba

- Unknown.
16.

Hydra

- Unknown.

Here are Xanatos's only attacks yesterday:

Hydra

> What're your reasons for voting KJ? You promised "brilliance" and "awesomeness" and have delivered... a vague poke and what looks like ADD.

Seriously. You don't get to post 4 times in 4 days and then whine there's not enough thread activity. Especially when you still haven't delivered the promised case, and repeatedly use words like "definitely" without knowing how to spell them.

And the main thing was the direct contrast between

Shanba

's first post, attempting to call someone out for "parking his vote", and then going on to park his vote on saporo, then do the same on Yos, and then again on Pine... at first I read him as Town trying to start a policy lynch wagon, but when I noticed that pattern, it went straight out the window.. Because if he's Scum, as I believe he is, it's in his interests to restrict the information Town can acquire before the Night phase. Scum are the informed minority, the less information Town can put together, the easier it is for the Scum team.

There'll be more pressure on

CTD

with a Shanba flip. He claimed Shanba was scummy repeatedly, and even goes so far as to say he fits as a Parama buddy, then drops everything in favour of a case on KJ built, from what I can see, entirely on the fact KJ speculated about the SK. Coupled with saying the Shanba wagon "has merit", and apparently believing that a Doc claim should be ignored over moving to your second suspect.. I don't like it either, but we'll know a lot more from a flip.

And on Yos and MBL, nothing:

Yos

, you willing to hammer Shanba?

I find

MBL

's reads rather interesting..

That's it.

Makes cases on three of his "unknowns" but ignores the other two unknowns.

Lets someone he says is a townie get run up to L-1:

KJ I'm leaning townish, but will need to look over his predecessor.

And doesn't claim a result, makes no case of any kind, doesn't even whisper a passing suspicion of the person he claims a guilty on?

Bitch, please.

[MrBuddyLee]

Ok, I understand that people are hesitant to lynch claimed power roles, but this one is a pretty obvious fakeclaim and I intend to prove it best I can. There is a chance but not a guarantee that we lose immediately if I'm lynched. Scum wouldn't have done this unless the upside was pretty significant.

I think the best I can do in this situation is to lay out the complete set of facts you have to believe in order to believe Xanatos. If you find them plausible, there's nothing much more I can do. I don't think they're plausible. Lynch Xanatos, who I guarantee is lying scum.

1) Xanatos claims that earworm investigated me N1.

Spoiler:

earworm posted this about me right before his last post of the day:

godammit you are town aren't you?

and he claimed to strongly suspect other players. He was scum kissing up to me, not town gunsmith thinking that MBL was a good investigation choice.

2) Xanatos claims that earworm and Pine were aware of a guilty on me D2 but said nothing and breadcrumbed nothing.

Spoiler:

Pine posted three times on D2. July 11th, 15th and 21st. He did not mention a guilty. For cross-reference, here is how Pine plays it as cop when he has a real guilty result:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p3135636

Short day, folks. I'm the

cop

(that breadcrumb was legit) and I have a guilty on Imaginality.

Vote: Imaginality

Pine was NOT sitting on a guilty result July 11th-21st. He was lurking scum who was actively making 77 posts in other games on this site between July 11th and July 21st.

3) Xanatos claims that he entered the game on July 30th and didn't find either of the competing wagons scummy, but let them happen instead of announcing his "guilty":

Spoiler:

Will need to take a look at the situation (Particularly the current wagons, since we're coming relatively close to the deadline..).

I don't find you particularly scummy

KJ I'm leaning townish

He did not act, because he was satisfied that the competing lynches were not scumpartners of his. Further evidence that he did not have a guilty.

4) Xanatos claims he entered the game on July 30th and did not breadcrumb a guilty on MBL. Nor did Pine in the ten days he was posting in this game.

Spoiler:

And I pointed out MBL yesterday too. Slight breadcrumbing before I went to bed in case of a lynch during the night.

This is all Xanatos said about me D3.

I find MBL's reads rather interesting..

That is not a breadcrumb of a guilty, particularly after Xanatos went after five other players over the course of the day.

Him calling that a breadcrumb is a desperation retrofit, as apparently scum decided I was their best target for today but didn't think they stood a chance of lynching me without the fakeclaim. I think it's obvious that they didn't come up with the fakeclaim idea until overnight, or they would have had Xanatos plant the seeds better.

5) Xanatos didn't claim his "guilty" once learning of a doctor.

Spoiler:

We do

not

lynch non-counterclaimed Docs.

No way a cop with a guilty would play it like this, with a vig, scum and SK all taking shots at night. You say "I have a guilty on xxx. Doctor, protect me. I will have another result for you all tomorrow."

Ergo, he is not a cop with a guilty.

Spoiler: Big Picture:

earworm cast suspicion on town/likely town/town D1 and did not mention Yosarian at all. Actually, Yosarian is the only player earworm did not mention at all.

VOTE: Sensfan

FOS Iecerint

VOTE: AGM

Pine lurked D2.

Xanatos said a lot D3 without saying much, and focused attention on CTD and Shanba, who are likely town and town. He didn't talk about Yos, his most likely scumpartner, at all.

He is not a cop. He is lying scum. Please lynch him.

[MrBuddyLee]

why in the seven hells would Scum decide to fake-claim a guilty on MBL? It would draw precisely what it's drawn here, for zero gain.

Who else did you consider fakeclaiming a guilty on? Probably not your scumpartner(s). (1/(2)) Probably not the vig (3) or the doctor (4). Probably not the neighbors (5/6). Probably not yourself (7).

8 - 7 = MBL


As to why:

Given the number of people who had MBL down as Town

Yeah, I think that explains it.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'm vanilla.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_6DEctiNSs
Relax and enjoy yourselves some grunge, or fast forward to 1:36 .

[MrBuddyLee]

Noone bothered actually challenging the fact he's essentially

sat back and done nothing but ask questions this entire game

, offering few solid opinions and generally being content to let Town hound amongst themselves. Take a look at the

blatant vote anchoring

on day 1 on Parama, (Despite posting a sizable analysis on AlmasterGM, and threatening to vote him in #487, and completely ignoring the retort in #511.), he then

lurks through D2

, paying minor lip-service to the Mastin wagon before he claims IC, and then jumping on squarely in the middle of the heavily Mastin driven wagon on Parama.. and day 3..

literally does nothing

. Oh, and at the same time, berates Town for not voting in #1172.

So. You realistically have a choice here.. the claimed Vanilla with questionable voting practice

This is pretty over-the-top mischaracterization, in my opinion, but it's not my opinion that matters at this point. To call me a follower instead of a leader of the Parama lynch is a flat-out lie. I spotted irregularities in saporo's play that led to her lynch. If Yos is scum, I believe my three strongest pushes in this game were against anti-town players.

I won't take your attacks on my scumhunting ability personally, considering you really don't have a choice at this point. And I hope you did well on your test.

[MrBuddyLee]

You demand me to make a case beyond my role, and you apparently haven't even read it. Poor show.

I read your case on me and gritted my teeth. You basically said I haven't scumhunted this game, which is a load of crap. The only other person who accused me of not scumhunting in this game was the SK, who I lynched after I lynched the scum (Parama) she was bizarrely protecting.

I recently got lynched as town in Shanba's Frogs game for finding two of the scum. Scum drove the lynch. It was annoying, but we still won the game.

My townmates and I found the last three scum in Patrick's Oldy, basically at lynch or lose. Bam bam bam. I tried to discourage the lynching of a townie (HackerHuck), but they lynched him anyway. We still won.

I've actively discouraged the lynching of Shanba (town) and DemonHybrid (probtown) this game. I pushed for the lynches of Parama, saporovirus and to a lesser extent Yos. (And now Xanatos.)

It feels oily to compare my play to the play of others, so I'll leave it at this generality: my play this game has been significantly more pro-town than that of earworm, Pine, Xanatos or Yos. For you to insinuate otherwise, Xanatos, is ridiculous, especially to insinuate such in comparison to the way your scumteam has played. For example, here's all Yos said about Parama D1:

On a side note, Parama's most recent posts are somewhere between useless and terrible. Post better, give better answers to PJ's questions. Not really happy with you right now.

That is the definition of scum pissed off at their scumpartner.

And I repeat, Yosarian is the only player earworm did not mention D1, and Yos did not mention or question earworm at all D1 either.

Xanatos is scum, and Yos-scum fits the pattern of pushing townies and selectively ignoring/being ignored by his teammates.

ps. Sorry about your PS3, David. Mine is my baby, and I had to send it back to Sony for repairs a few months ago. Fallout New Vegas killed it off.

edit: Here's all Parama had to say about Yos and earworm:

Yosarian’s been null all game, can’t really think of anything noteworthy he’s done either way

earworm 343 – Something about this post is giving off townvibes.

Again, scum protecting/selectively ignoring scum.

[MrBuddyLee]

"I lynched the SK"?

You didn't vote.

Not one vote/unvote on Day 3.

Big whoop. I was on saporo from start to finish D3:

I'm feeling saporo as scum more powerfully than I'm feeling Shanba. Yesterday, saporo jumped off Parama at L-2 to give him a chance to make his case, then jumped on Hrez instead of back on Parama without explaining the logic behind her abandonment of the Paramawagon.

D2 you simply hopped on the Parama wagon, heavily if not totally Mastin driven.. You asked a lot of questions, but did sod all other than harbour your vote on Parama once more.

So dishonest. I kicked ass D2. This post in particular:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p3265758

I'm leaning towards Parama-scummish, saporo-scummish, DH-townish. Big picture, Parama is scum for previously stated reasons, saporo pushed DH as a legit and non-bussish lynch and hopped on and off Parama oddly. Paramascum would benefit by keeping DH-town around for protection, and DH's approach to the game generally comes across as townish to me. Other players tie in to this picture, but those three fit together the tightest.

Hrez/CTD is probably town who's the alternative lynchbait today, but that's getting far afield.

[MrBuddyLee]

It's just a game. :/ If we lose to this fakeclaim, I'll be pissed, but whatever. Xanatos has carried it well.

[MrBuddyLee]

Ok, lame. You guys need to vig Xanatos overnight and lynch Yosarian tomorrow.

If it's a 3 scum + SK setup, we win at that point.

If it's 4 scum + SK, and Xanatos has a RB on his team, (which is prob the case considering they gambitted) game's over, you guys fucked up.

Otherwise it'll be 2 town 1 scum remaining.

If it's 2 on 1 at the end, Iece and CTD will probably have been NKed over the next two nights, leaving two neighbors and Hydra. If that's the case, Hydra's probably the last remaining scum.

Good luck, and I can't believe I'm being lynched as town for the 2nd game in a row. This never happens. You can thank me later for finding all the scum, I suppose.

[MrBuddyLee]

Yos, claim. Guys, you do not want to give him wiggle room after I come up town and Xanatos is vigged.

If

Xanatos is vigged.

Better pray the setup was 14-3-1:
3 scum
1 SK
Tracker
Doctor
Vig
Alien
Innocent Child
2 Town Neighbors
and the rest vanilla.

Jesus, you guys.

You really think there are 8 roled players and an SK and only three scum?

No way in hell. That scumteam would stand no chance. Think about it. Why has Xanatos been pushing a three-scum team for so long? Because it's the key to his fakeclaim--it makes a lynch of me look less risky than a lynch of him.

Out of 18, I'd wager there's either 4 or 5 mafia..

with an SK, I'm inclined to say 4

. That means there are still 3 out there..

Out of 18, I'd say there'd be 4.. roughly 20%, but the fact there was an SK tips the balance a little, and I'd be inclined to think

3+SK.

Xanatos totally changed his tune overnight, because he had to in order to push this fakeclaim.

Pretty sure this game is over if you lynch me. 4 scum on the scumteam, Parama's dead, 3 remain, and it's 3 scum 3 town tomorrow if scum have an RB and CTD fails to protect.

Scum gambitted knowing that they win if they get a mislynch. Think about it.

8 town power roles, an SK, and only 3 scum?

No way in hell.

7 power roles (Xanatos faking). 4 scum. SK. That sounds balanced.

Xanatos, Yos, Hydra scum. CTD, Iece, MBL, Toasty, DH town.

If they didn't fakeclaim, Yos gets lynched, DX gets vigged, doc protects Iece, they're screwed.

They fakeclaim, MBL gets mislynched, they nightkill any townie and Iece vigs DX unless there's a scum roleblocker. in which case the game is over.

tl;dr:
You guys ignored my play entirely this game and bit on a bullshit power role claim, and we're going to lose as a result.

[MrBuddyLee]

It's moot now, considering the hammer, but I'll eat my hat if the scumteam isn't DX-Yos-Hydra. I'll congratulate Amrun for a really fun setup if it turns out that two neighbors were scum.

Lynched again as town, goddamn what a bummer. You guys get to join Meransiel and CES in the hall of shame. :/

[MrBuddyLee]

If it comes down to brass tacks, Toasty is more likely scum than DH. DH's play has read really townie to me this game.

[MrBuddyLee]

I do apologize for lynching Parama and saporovirus--I can see how that might have been perceived as scummy of me. I will try harder to convince you next game.

[MrBuddyLee]

Thanks for the fun, Amrun. You did an amazing job filling the game with quality replacements.

Also, thanks to all the replacements.

Also, poo on earworm for investigating me N1. I spent all of D1 trying to lynch scum!

The game felt a little unbalanced in favor of town, and definitely swingy, but it still ended up being a lot of fun. Parama ended up costing us the game by getting lynched--his lynch cleared two townie neighbors. And there weren't enough vanillas left to throw suspicion upon--despite the fact that scum didn't kill a single vanilla. (1 lynched, 2 vigged, 2 killed by SK.) 5 power roles and 2 confirmed-town neighbors was too much to overcome.

We could have used a rolecop...

Yos, Iece and Toasty pulled it out in the end with some reasonable logic/argument. CTD played a valiant endgame, and might have won if he hadn't defended all scum to the death like the best teammate EVER! Much love to my teammates for a game well-played.

[MrBuddyLee]

Yes, the town had a lot of power, but we needed it; in order to win, we had to lynch scum

5 days in a row.

If we had a little less power on our side, it would have been hopeless.

Ways to overcome:
1) vig a scumbag
2) SK kills a scumbag
3) announce your guilty result on a scumbag

Town power roles and the SK targeted 9 players over the course of 8 game days. All 9 were town.

Yes, the game was unbalanced. Scum played well and avoided being targeted, otherwise we'd have lost a hell of a lot worse. Regardless, it was still a blast.

[MrBuddyLee]

All 9 were town.

Haha, look at that, I'm still lying to myself about my alignment. Make that "8 of 9 were town".

[MrBuddyLee]

4) Scum appears to have been able to kill the SK--no reference to them being NK-immune