Newbie 1170: DarthYoshi's Medieval Mafia! (Fin--Who won?!)

[sorgster]

I don't know about why it is. I like blue or red mostly. Don't have a favourite. Just went with one I guess.

[Shinki]

@Shinki If I were to answer my own question, then wouldn't that defeat the purpose of using it to develop tells? I think that using the uncertainty of how to "correctly" answer the question is more important than my answer to the question, especially considering I am the one who proposed the question in the first place. What purpose does it serve for me to answer the question to my very own test? I've already set the rules to that game, so my answer should be meaningless to you, not to mention that my answer to said question would obviously fit under something that I consider to be a "pro-town" answer due to it being my test. Why are you so curious as to how I answer the question? Are you afraid that you will answer my question "incorrectly" and want a model answer to copy?

Perhaps you are afraid of the knowledge that Barney the Dinosaur killed my innocent childhood in a similar fashion to the mafia killing innocent civilians? Why is it that you like the color purple

?

LOOL.
I certainly laugh a lot³ more than I should've about this color
I'm so tired, going to sleep right now.
I'll answer properly tomorrow when I wake up if you don't mind..

[LyingBrian]

==lyingbrian - I already answered that my favorite color is red, and already explained why my answering said question is stupid in my response to shinki; I have already set the terms of said test, so my answering it makes little sense, especially when it may foster people trying to answer the question in a way that seems to copy my answer. However, if you and or others give me a good reason to consider saying why red is my favorite color, I will do so, but I simply don't see the point. As my chemistry teacher once said to me after i asked him how hard his test would be, 'It is pretty easy. after all, I got an A on it.'

honestly, and please don't take this personally, i think anybody answering the question is quite silly as it doesn't really give us any insight into whether or not they are scum. i'm also heavily against 1 player having a 'test' of sorts to separate scum from townies (especially this early in the game). it makes it seem like you have information not readily available to anyone else, and that makes you seem scummy, thus why my vote is on you.

I also find it curious that you think that I am finding scum based on what color someone chooses. I have already pointed out that such a system of logic is stupid, so I think that we are two ships passing in the night here. That is quite clearly not the purpose of the color test. 'Orange = scum,' or 'Blue = town' would be a pretty terrible test. I am willing to excuse your current vote as merely glossing over this thread due to being busy, but I fail to see how asking questions like that is necessarily deserving of a vote.

i don't really think you're finding scum based on someone's favorite color, i agree the logic is stupid. again, the whole logic of a made-up test only 1 person has the answer key to is quite stupid, imho.

Luckily, the only directly functional question that I asked was the question about time zones and first language, both of which are answered in your location to a large extent, since sometimes arguments can be over just a misunderstanding in what someone is saying, and it's also useful to know around when most people here are posting, so that people with no life like me know when to possibly come in and check the thread and expect to see a certain person post. Most of the others were there just to get to know people, since IMO it's more fun to play against people that you have some sort of knowledge of, instead of them being just some robots on the internet who occasionally post things to analyze and such. Besides, when else this game are we ever going to get to know who we are playing against? I respect and understand being busy, though, but it's no excuse to hide from the power that is the color test. I still would like to know: what your favorite color is and why it is your favorite color?

i still refuse to answer your question on the principle that it does not reveal anything about my alliance; i live in Jacksonville, FL (EST), and i mostly do graphic design stuff.

Also, you seem a bit defensive of fakinha. What in particular of fakinha's post do you agree with in terms to my color test?

ps the soft-claim thing you allude to, if i am interpreting that correctly, seems to be taking a jab at my questions after the color test. the little 'barney is purple and killed my innocence' thing is just me having fun, if that wasn't painfully obvious. it's just what i've always done with the color test; call it tradition.

these 2 questions are intertwined. you are interpreting my sarcasm correctly, you are using the color people choose as their 'favorite' to make a silly claim about why mafia would choose that color as their favorite. it's similar to my saying, "only mafia ask questions about people's favorite color". i agree w/ Fakinha that you are manipulating silly information to your whim rather than analyzing it to a logical conclusion.

finally, as an ic, what information that isn't present in a beginner guide would you find particularly useful to us?

this may be your biggest contribution to the game. sequence of votes tells you more than you might think, as does a player's post count.

[duckhunter4242]

Quote from LyingBrian-sequence of votes tells you more than you might think, as does a player's post count. ( don't know how to partial quote)
is there a way to see post count without physically going through the thread and counting them.

[DaLetterEl]

there seems to be an activity overview thing below page numbers. that seems to have number of posts, as well as if you press the number of posts that a person has, you get to see all of their posts in chronological order

response to lyingbrian tomorrow

[DarthYoshi]

Day One, Vote Count the Second

duckhunter4242 (2): DaLetterEl, sorgster
Painkiller (1): Shinki
DaLetterEl (3): tim_hill1990, Fakinha, LyingBrian
Fakinha (2): Zemelo-Franko, duckhunter4242
Not Voting (1): Painkiller

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch and 5 to no-lynch.

The deadline is currently set for 9:00 am, Pacific Daylight Time, Sunday, October 23.

As ever, any questions or concerns, please let me know.

[Fakinha]

there seems to be an activity overview thing below page numbers. that seems to have number of posts, as well as if you press the number of posts that a person has, you get to see all of their posts in chronological order

response to lyingbrian tomorrow

Oh that's usefull, thanks.

And...
@duckhunter, you can quote/multiquote by clicking on the "quote"/"Q+" on the top right side of each post.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Painkiller You have a gun and said nothing at all, I don't like your atitude. What's you favourite co-
Don't you have anything to say about the game?

[Shinki]

I think you guys are kinda overreacting, but go on with your thoughts.

As I said yesterday, I like this color because purple is a combination of blue and red, the warmest and coolest colors. Red is a focusing, dynamic and active energy while blue is calming, expansive and cooling. I have my wardrobe filled with purple clothes.
For this and some other minor reasons, I love purple. <3

[DaLetterEl]

honestly, and please don't take this personally, i think anybody answering the question is quite silly as it doesn't really give us any insight into whether or not they are scum. i'm also heavily against 1 player having a 'test' of sorts to separate scum from townies (especially this early in the game). it makes it seem like you have information not readily available to anyone else, and that makes you seem scummy, thus why my vote is on you.

What would you recommend we start doing, then, if what I am doing is not productive? This is a newbie game, and while I don't expect nor want you to hold our hand all the way through this -- as there is still the distinct possibility that you are scum, not to mention that a sheeping town is a bad town, regardless of who they follow -- I don't think anyone here

really

knows how early-game works in the sense that it seems somewhat confusing to see how games really transition from RVs to actual discussion. I just did this because I thought it would get reactions, and it had worked for me in the past.

"As an IC, you have information not readily available to anyone else, and that makes you seem scummy" would seem to logically follow from the above insinuation of my having some knowledge which other people don't have. However, I don't think that your presumption is sound in terms of it being scummy in the first place, and as such think it would be silly to vote for you just because you are using your outside knowledge and experience from games on this site, versus my outside knowledge and experience from games on other sites.

i don't really think you're finding scum based on someone's favorite color, i agree the logic is stupid. again, the whole logic of a made-up test only 1 person has the answer key to is quite stupid, imho.

one could argue that your position of experience places you in a similar position of having "tests" which only you really know the answers to. You are pretty clearly "the expert" in terms of knowing what constitutes something scummy due to being here longer than the rest of us, which places you in a position of power where you can ask questions which you have found to be very good at weeding out scum. While you certainly have not done this yet -- in fact, all you have really done so far, and correct me if i'm wrong, is call what I'm doing stupid, agree with fakinha that what i am doing is stupid, fos duck for a quickvote, further explain why what i am doing is stupid, and then give one quick piece of advice without really explaining it -- the fact remains that this naturally would place you in a position to have tests and questions which you find particularly good at weeding out scum. While the situations are clearly different in some capacity, I think the comparison is valid in some respects.

However, if you buy the validity of the comparison, just as you being "experienced" and using said experience should not necessarily constitute being scummy -- if your experience helps bring the town a victory and helps other town members to become better, then you should use that experience -- I fail to see why you think my asking these questions is necessarily scummy. While you can still argue that the "color test" is stupid (and it probably is, but I am not lying when I say that it has only failed me once), and that doing "stupid stuff" is a waste of time and/or not "pro-town," I find the insinuation of my using something which I personally know to look for as being

necessarily

scummy seems to be flawed logic on your behalf.

i still refuse to answer your question on the principle that it does not reveal anything about my alliance; i live in Jacksonville, FL (EST), and i mostly do graphic design stuff.

there is literally 0 harm in answering the damn question. If you honestly think that our day 1 lynch will be ultimately decided by some color test on the first two pages of the thread -- which seem to generally be filled with RVs and some questionnaires and barely starting into actual questions -- you are either extremely foolish, or just have an extremely negative expectation of newer players in general or of me personally from the bit you have seen of me. It got discussion started, a quickvote in the first page of the thread, some people being reluctant to reveal something so innocent as a favorite color and the reasons why it is their favorite, and allowed me to mention barney the dinosaur and mafias in the same sentence. That's a pretty good start to me. I'm inclined to believe that you just simply think that what I am doing is "stupid," and like to categorize "stupid" as "not pro-town." I can tell you first hand that I have gotten the most pro-town reads I have ever had from really stupid people.

Oh, and please, ask some questions which reveal things about my, or anyone else's alliance. I already answered the question "U MAF?" Oh, maybe you could ask me "U TOWN?"! Maybe I don't understand what you mean by "does not reveal anything about my alliance," but that response feels like a cop-out that could be used to virtually any question.

And thank you for at least somewhat answering my questions from before; graphic design sounds pretty cool! If only I were at all artistic...

these 2 questions are intertwined. you are interpreting my sarcasm correctly, you are using the color people choose as their 'favorite' to make a silly claim about why mafia would choose that color as their favorite. it's similar to my saying, "only mafia ask questions about people's favorite color". i agree w/ Fakinha that you are manipulating silly information to your whim rather than analyzing it to a logical conclusion.

how am i manipulating information, when my only vote so far has been an rv in my first post? you seem to be the one trying to make something out of nothing. i am skeptical to call you mafia as a result of it, but it's certainly not pro-town to make "so much to do about nothing." Of course, you could argue the same about this "test," but I think it's pretty clear that I am not taking people's immediate responses as definitive reasons to vote for someone.

this may be your biggest contribution to the game. sequence of votes tells you more than you might think, as does a player's post count.

The above leads into two questions, one related to the stuff above this that i said, and one related to this quote of yours.

First, how do you feel players should use their votes? I have always been curious as to when putting a vote on someone to try to pressure scum into mistakes vs. keeping your vote as something which can be seen to scum as legitimately threatening, since while the vote is the town's biggest weapon, if a townie just keeps quickly flopping their vote from one person to another, that would seem counter-productive (at least to me). What's the balance that we should be aiming to hit? Or does that just come with time and experience?

Second, while vote sequence and post-count, as you say, matter, how do they actually matter? Or is this just like the color test where you're going to keep the secret to yourself

@shinki thank you for answering! ^^

oh and

@darthyoshi the end of your last post makes you feel so distant from us, so lonely . you can answer some of the questions in my first non-/confirm post, if you want...but beware, i might find out you're mafia if you answer the color question incorrectly!

...

I don't know what else to ask you though, sorry D:

[Fakinha]

I'm eager to see Lying Brain's response to Letter's post.
But I must that you look a little too friendly townie, Letter. Trying too hard, maybe?

And no one have anything else to say?

[Fakinha]

But I must say*

[DaLetterEl]

But I must that you look a little too friendly townie, Letter. Trying too hard, maybe?

What do you mean by "too friendly"? I think it's important for me to understand what you mean by that before I can answer your question.

If you mean that I'm not raging at someone for implying that I'm stupid, I'm typically pretty cool-headed, regardless of what people say of me. Unless they insult some sort of lifestyle choice. In that case, I typically find offense to it. However, I think the likelihood of that happening -- not to mention rules in the first couple posts seemingly discouraging any kinds of actions like that -- is slim to none.

If you mean that I'm not immediately placing suspicion on those that place suspicion on me, I do disagree to some extent in your interpretation of my post. There are things in LyingBrian's play which I have not liked so far, but I have not felt strongly enough about those differences, nor inferred enough about his alliance from some of those differences, to feel reasonably confident in judging alliance to the point of voting him, or anyone else for that matter. I know enough to know that just because someone disagrees with you does not necessarily make either one scum. Not all townies will agree on reads, not all townies will agree on interpretations of posts, etc. Maybe I'm just naturally cautious to suspect anyone or to put any real weight behind my suspicions via putting a vote on someone -- as I allude to in my first question to LyingBrian on advice on voting -- but I in the past have, barring a random vote in the beginning of some games, almost exclusively voted for those I have a more than reasonable feeling on being scum vs. not. From the bit I have read about games on here, people seem much more willing to "use" their vote, if that makes sense. I just have not played enough to feel confident in doing so yet, nor in knowing when is the right time to do so. While someone more experienced than myself may have changed their vote to someone like fakinha, duck, or lyingbrian via some of the reasons already presented in the thread, I feel as though I have not heard enough from any of the above to feel confident in putting my own vote on them.

If you mean that I am actually being polite and thanking people for posting the thing about color, I feel as though I should thank them for doing so. It seems only right to do so. What, am I going to say "screw you for answering my question"? I just think that it is common courtesy to thank people for doing stuff that might seem a bit "odd." It shows some respect to me and the questions I am asking, and I appreciate that.

If you mean something completely different, I'm not exactly sure what you mean and would love it if you could explain what you mean by saying that I'm "too friendly"

[Fakinha]

If you can't even understand what I said, then we have a problem ;/
Think by yourself about it, I personaly don't like to follow someone just because he has more experience.
And what I said doesn't mean great thing anyway, just a feeling about you. If you're passing town vibes, be happy.

That HUGE wall of text was totally unecessary, you don't need to explain all about yourself.
Now I wait for what the others have to say.

[duckhunter4242]

I feel like DLE is acting pretty scummie, he has the need to defend every little point of his strategy and every little thing that someone says regarding him with a super large paragraph that could have been summed up in a fourth of the words.

FOS Daletterel

[sorgster]

Duckhunter, can you sum it up in a 4th of the words then? RQS(random question stage) is a normal part of mafia games at the start. Daletterel was just starting to get some discussion going.

[duckhunter4242]

it shouldnt take 3 paragraphs to explain "too friendly"
i.e. No I am not too friendly I have a very sociable personality and I play the game accordingly.

[sorgster]

then explain it in a fourth as you said.

[Fakinha]

Ain't you agreeing too much with what other people say, Duckhunter?
Ok to agree but, why to repeat what I've just said? That's weird.

Waiting, waiting, waiting...

[duckhunter4242]

Why is it wrong for people to agree with other people? Ideally 7 people would agree together as the townies and 2 would agree together. @sorgster I did explain it in a fourth of the words in Post 65 on the 2nd line..

[LyingBrian]

a wall of text defending his color test

"As an IC, you have information not readily available to anyone else, and that makes you seem scummy" would seem to logically follow from the above insinuation of my having some knowledge which other people don't have.

information != experience

you make the mistake of thinking that since i have more experience i have more information than you. this is simply untrue. experience lets me use the provided information (rules of Mafia, posts made by other players, etc) in a more productive way, but it does not grant me MORE information

one could argue that your position of experience places you in a similar position of having "tests" which only you really know the answers to. You are pretty clearly "the expert" in terms of knowing what constitutes something scummy due to being here longer than the rest of us, which places you in a position of power where you can ask questions which you have found to be very good at weeding out scum.

again, you make a logical error. i do not have any secret "tests" for finding Mafia. my experience in weeding out Mafia comes from how people play the game, how they react to situations, how & when they jump on a vote bandwagon, etc. if you're looking for "tests", try this link: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ells&go=Go

While you certainly have not done this yet -- in fact, all you have really done so far, and correct me if i'm wrong, is call what I'm doing stupid, agree with fakinha that what i am doing is stupid,

fos duck for a quickvote

, further explain why what i am doing is stupid, and then give one quick piece of advice without really explaining it -- the fact remains that this naturally would place you in a position to have tests and questions which you find particularly good at weeding out scum. While the situations are clearly different in some capacity, I think the comparison is valid in some respects.

you misunderstood my FOS. my FOS was not b/c of how quickly duck voted, but rather how quickly he jumped on a bandwagon w/o giving any additional information about their vote, but rather copying the reason the first vote gave.

However, if you buy the validity of the comparison, just as you being "experienced" and using said experience should not necessarily constitute being scummy -- if your experience helps bring the town a victory and helps other town members to become better, then you should use that experience -- I fail to see why you think my asking these questions is necessarily scummy. While you can still argue that the "color test" is stupid (and it probably is, but I am not lying when I say that it has only failed me once), and that doing "stupid stuff" is a waste of time and/or not "pro-town," I find the insinuation of my using something which I personally know to look for as being

necessarily

scummy seems to be flawed logic on your behalf.

my problem with your color test is the nature of the question. if the question was directly game related, and you were using peoples reactions to THAT question to try to get a town/mafia read from them, i would have no problems whatsoever. but using a question which is NOT game-related as a means of reading a person's alliance in the game is faulty logic and will provide a bad read. you are reading a person's personality with your color question, NOT their alliance.

there is literally 0 harm in answering the damn question. If you honestly think that our day 1 lynch will be ultimately decided by some color test on the first two pages of the thread -- which seem to generally be filled with RVs and some questionnaires and barely starting into actual questions -- you are either extremely foolish, or just have an extremely negative expectation of newer players in general or of me personally from the bit you have seen of me. It got discussion started, a quickvote in the first page of the thread, some people being reluctant to reveal something so innocent as a favorite color and the reasons why it is their favorite, and allowed me to mention barney the dinosaur and mafias in the same sentence. That's a pretty good start to me. I'm inclined to believe that you just simply think that what I am doing is "stupid," and like to categorize "stupid" as "not pro-town." I can tell you first hand that I have gotten the most pro-town reads I have ever had from really stupid people.

i'm very curious about something. how many games have you played & used your color questionnaire? if you think my calling your questionnaire "stupid" equals "not pro-town", then again you misinterpret me. it was a semi-decent way to kick off the game, but to make statements like "blue is the color of someone's face when the mafia is choking them" doesn't really help get the ball rolling, except to talk about whether or not the "color test" is a good way to start RVs, which is what we've done so far.

Oh, and please, ask some questions which reveal things about my, or anyone else's alliance. I already answered the question "U MAF?" Oh, maybe you could ask me "U TOWN?"! Maybe I don't understand what you mean by "does not reveal anything about my alliance," but that response feels like a cop-out that could be used to virtually any question.

And thank you for at least somewhat answering my questions from before; graphic design sounds pretty cool! If only I were at all artistic...

my point was that EVERYONE is going to answer the question "Are you pro-town?" as "yes". it is pointless to ask.

how am i manipulating information, when my only vote so far has been an rv in my first post? you seem to be the one trying to make something out of nothing. i am skeptical to call you mafia as a result of it, but it's certainly not pro-town to make "so much to do about nothing." Of course, you could argue the same about this "test," but I think it's pretty clear that I am not taking people's immediate responses as definitive reasons to vote for someone.

above response should answer this

First, how do you feel players should use their votes? I have always been curious as to when putting a vote on someone to try to pressure scum into mistakes vs. keeping your vote as something which can be seen to scum as legitimately threatening, since while the vote is the town's biggest weapon, if a townie just keeps quickly flopping their vote from one person to another, that would seem counter-productive (at least to me). What's the balance that we should be aiming to hit? Or does that just come with time and experience?

Second, while vote sequence and post-count, as you say, matter, how do they actually matter? Or is this just like the color test where you're going to keep the secret to yourself

ah, finally, some strategy. how one uses their vote is completely up to them, so it would not be wise for me to say how a player SHOULD use their vote. personally, i use my to pressure people. my vote was initially on you b/c i felt your "color test" was counter-productive, and i wanted to pressure you into becoming defensive (which seems to have backfired). concerning HOW vote sequence & post-count matter, it's not something that there is a set matrix for. i will say the next to last vote on someone who is lynched always seems to be under scrutiny, unless the last vote was a super quick change of vote, then it becomes suspicious, unless we're under deadline, unless that person has been cleared by a cop, etc. as you can see there are many factors to how vote sequence matters, and i don't think i could adequately cover every scenario (or even most scenarios), so i'm not going to try. when i see something suspicious, i will point it out, and provide reasoning for my suspicion. it will then be up to everyone else to determine if my reasoning is sound. post count is more of a meta-game strategy, and i doubt i'll be using that in this game. for instance, based off pure speculation, i would say that you are mafia DaLetterEl, just b/c of the amount & frequency that you post (mafia like to talk a lot, but again this could be personality). i don't actually think this is the case, though, as i have no base to compare your current post count to other games.

But I must that you look a little too friendly townie, Letter. Trying too hard, maybe?

another wall of text defending himself from a harmless question

yeah, this was pretty much unnecessary, DLL. it was a simple question meant to encourage you to back off a little, and how do you respond? by taking 5 paragraphs to defend yourself. this is scummy behavior, regardless of whether or not you are actually Mafia. trust me, it took me a few games to understand that you CAN be lynched for acting scummy even though you are completely pro-town.

I feel like DLE is acting pretty scummie, he has the need to defend every little point of his strategy and every little thing that someone says regarding him with a super large paragraph that could have been summed up in a fourth of the words.

FOS Daletterel

while not a vote, this is the 2nd time duckhunter has followed someone else's lead w/o really adding anything to the conversation. it smells scummy.

@duckhunter4242, why do you think that DLL's "need" to defend himself is scummy? feel free to take at least 3 sentences to expound your thought rather than a one sentence blurb.

unvote
vote: duckhunter4242

[DarthYoshi]

tim_hill1990 has request replacement. Initiating a search now.

[DarthYoshi]

cjdrum replaces tim_hill1990. Thanks!

[duckhunter4242]

@duckhunter4242, why do you think that DLL's "need" to defend himself is scummy? feel free to take at least 3 sentences to expound your thought rather than a one sentence blurb.

My point was the fact that he honestly didn't "need" to defend himself because all people were commenting on were the fact that most of his questions had nothing to do with the game. But he did defend himself even though all he "needed" to say was that he wanted to find out more about people IRL. Also when anyone attacks DLL he takes a lot of words to make a point. Maybe he just has a lot of time to devote to this game, but I know personally I wouldn't type an essay for a post unless I felt extremely threatened.

[cjdrum]

/confirm my tim_hill1990 replace, read through briefly earlier, but will again shortly

[cjdrum]

1. U MAF?????
2. ASL?????? (honestly, location is probably the only important thing so that we can sort of have an idea of when people will post, but I'd like to get to know who I'm playing with, too. Maybe we can become friends!)
3. What is your first language?
4. What is your previous mafia experience?
5a. How would you describe your mafia play style? Do you like making long posts or short ones? Do you consider yourself aggressive or passive? Stuff like that.
5b. Barring knowing about a typical play-style, what kind of personality are you? Saying your myers-briggs or something could be cool, iunno.
6. What is your favorite color?
7. If you had to make a semi-random pick for who would be lynched today simply from their username, who would it be?
8. Favorite Sport, and favorite team in said sport? If you dislike sports, then...um...what is your favorite thing to do in your spare time?
9. What is something cool about yourself that the above questions did not address?

I'll start by answering the questions that are relevant, as LyingBrian did.

2. I live in Australia, which is currently at UTC+11
3. English
4. See my wiki for (most of) my MS experience, but have been playing online since late January this year.
5a. Fairly passive, but contributive. However, when I find someone who I think is scum I will fight for that. I feel better making longer posts, but they often end up being short anyway.
5b. In Mafia, I'd say my Myers-Briggs Type is ESTP.


duckhunter4242 is looking really bad at the moment. This post is practically the definition of sheeping, and with reasoning of only, "I was thinking the exact same thing." The vote hasn't been taken off yet, although an FoS has gone to DLE. I think, for now, that deserves one of these:
VOTE: duckhunter4242