[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

Meransiel · Post Post #4075 (ISO) » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:05 am

Yep. It brings a new and unique element to the game that I think would be interesting to follow.

izakthegoomba · Post Post #4076 (ISO) » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:00 am

Sounds too swingy. The game could easily be decided by the order of the playerlist.

Meransiel · Post Post #4077 (ISO) » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:29 am

In a regular game, any game, if someone is a regular policy lynch, and the mod happens to make him the ONLY mafia PR, doesn't that swing everything to hell?

Quilford · Post Post #4078 (ISO) » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:31 am

Yep.

However, people who are policy lynched -- not that that even happens much these days -- do not appear in every game.

Meransiel · Post Post #4079 (ISO) » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:39 am

Let's say in that game scum happen to be next to each other on the playerlist (worst case scenario). That's a chance of... 8 out of 44, right? Or 18 %

The chance of someone bad at this being given a scum role and breaking the balance by making lynches much better than random is pretty much 20-25% multiplied by the number of people bad at this (which is undefined and undefinable, but arguably over 70%), which would be...17% at bare minimum?

Doesn't seem too far off from the norm. Especially since, if you do actually look at the setting, you will see it's pretty facile for WIFOM and lacks strong town PRs.

izakthegoomba · Post Post #4080 (ISO) » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:30 am

Whatever statistics you can come up with, I just don't like the idea.

Quilford · Post Post #4081 (ISO) » Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:54 pm

It's a terrible idea, especially in a small game.

izakthegoomba · Post Post #4082 (ISO) » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm

Actually, those PRs aren't weak by any stretch of the imagination. Tracker is almost a Cop in a small, PR-light game, and Watcher isn't far off either.

Empking · Post Post #4083 (ISO) » Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:35 am

Asymmetrical Nightless

2 Mafia - Day Seer
3 Werewolves
7 Townies

Werewolves win if town can no longer win and a Werewolf remains. Mafia win if town can no longer win and no Werewolves remain.

izakthegoomba · Post Post #4084 (ISO) » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:57 am

That's the kind of thing that just needs EVs run to balance it. I guess we assume Mafia always shoot confirmed Werewolves.

Meransiel · Post Post #4085 (ISO) » Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:28 am

It's nightless so mafia doesn't shoot.

Seems werewolf sided to me.

izakthegoomba · Post Post #4086 (ISO) » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:03 am

Oops, missed that.

In that case, EVs won't (fully) work, because we can't tell how often the Mafia can get a Werewolf lynched.

Perhaps if the Mafia had a 1-shot factional daykill?

Empking · Post Post #4087 (ISO) » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:18 am

In post 4085, Meransiel wrote:It's nightless so mafia doesn't shoot.

Seems werewolf sided to me.

The set up (it seems to me) gives werewolves roughly the same odds as 3:9 (I didn't do any calculations though). That's very much a town favoured one. IOf the Mafia takes mainly from the town (which seems reasonable) then the set up should be balanced.

Quilford · Post Post #4088 (ISO) » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:59 pm

I quite like the setup.

nominate Asymmetrical Nightless, possibly with a different name

izakthegoomba · Post Post #4089 (ISO) » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:55 pm

I'll probably second it, but I want to look into the balance (and, if necessary, my suggestion) first.

Quilford · Post Post #4090 (ISO) » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:56 pm

I think the Seer should belong to the town, though.

EDIT: Eh then confirmable townie.

Meransiel · Post Post #4091 (ISO) » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:46 am

NO.

The seer, if he says "hey I'm seer" is confirmed scum and dies.

Basically there are MORE werewolves than mafia, and werewolves win if they are alone with mafia. Mafia gains no benefit whatsoever to balance.

Therefore, by default, a werewolf is much more likely to win the game than a mafia. That is not balance.

Empking · Post Post #4092 (ISO) » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:14 am

In post 4091, Meransiel wrote:NO.

The seer, if he says "hey I'm seer" is confirmed scum and dies.

Basically there are MORE werewolves than mafia, and werewolves win if they are alone with mafia. Mafia gains no benefit whatsoever to balance.

Therefore, by default, a werewolf is much more likely to win the game than a mafia. That is not balance.

Yes if you pretend the Seer thing is irrelevant. It isn't though so that's a bad presumption.

Whiskers · Post Post #4093 (ISO) » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:18 am

They all get day chat? The Mafia and Werewolves, I mean.

Empking · Post Post #4094 (ISO) » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:19 am

In post 4093, Whiskers wrote:They all get day chat? The Mafia and Werewolves, I mean.

Yeah.

izakthegoomba · Post Post #4095 (ISO) » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:20 am

But Meran does have a point about the likely imbalance. The mafia seer helps, but mafia needs a better way than lynching to get rid of a werewolf they find.

Hence my thought of a 1-shot factional mafia daykill.

Vi · Post Post #4096 (ISO) » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:21 am

Seer: "Well if you're going to lynch me, two of the Werewolves are ____ and ____. I'm not going to tell you the other person I investigated because they were Town."
Werewolf team:

Faraday · Post Post #4097 (ISO) » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:23 am

I would far prefer to be mafia in that set-up.

Whiskers · Post Post #4098 (ISO) » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:28 am

In post 4096, Vi wrote:Seer: "Well if you're going to lynch me, two of the Werewolves are ____ and ____. I'm not going to tell you the other person I investigated because they were Town."
Werewolf team:

The werewolf team might be able to pull something out of their asses...? "Oh, it's wifom! omgus! he's just saying that! those are his mafia partners! those are townies! he just wants you to lose!

Yeah.

Somepony care to make a cop-headstart game for me?
Or a game where the masons have a factional night-ability?

izakthegoomba · Post Post #4099 (ISO) » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:34 am

Why not make one yourself? You can always bring it here to be refined.