Open 347: White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

[Amrun]

You realize I am Trekker now correct? Does anything I have posted do anything for you?

[Equinox]

All unlabeled quotes are from post 614.

This should have been discussed at the start of the game, the results and sharing of knowledge being both another weapon avaliable for every townie to use when judging players, and the discussion also has the beautiful effect of unnerving the huddling mafiosi cauding a fine compress of pressure, which when executed correctly, has the tantalising effect of causing all sorts of irrational play from the mafia as they try to dodge the mould they believe the town is hunting for.

Your avatar needs a top hat and a monocle.

I think White Flag works better when the setup isn't discussed. While it's nice to catch scum, it's far more important and effective to catch town; the fact that this is only a subtle change to town's win condition means it's fairly easy to find other townies. Furthermore, too much discussion of the setup leads to scum knowing how to game it to their advantage. It's better to let them be nervous than to teach them how to turn the chessboard around.

Spoiler: Equinox

Good God, do you know how to buddy people and stroke their egos? Is there a reason you're buttering me up here?

Hmm. I'm uneasy about Twistedspoon here. He talks about people and concludes with a trekker vote... okay. After reading his commentary on Cross_Pollination, I expected some talk about the people who were pushing Cross_Pollination and the people who talked about Cross_Pollination being scummy but didn't vote (such as yours truly). Nothing substantial. Except a vote on trekker, which is apparently a policy vote. I'm also having a lot of difficulty reading his tone because he appears to be roleplaying some sort of gentleman, which doesn't soothe my feelings.

---

I agree with SleepyKrew that pidgey's reads in his post 625 were like fence-sitting, but I'm comfortable with pidgey being town for whatever it was I caught him doing earlier this morning.

Okay. So you know where them laser beams go if Nobody Special flips scum. If Nobody Special flips town, then... uhh. I don't know, I suck?

---

EBWOPreview: Oh, actually, [J] just poked at me for this, so let's go ahead and have fun here.

Equi, I'd like to pick your brain on who you are looking at based on the flips of NS in both scenarios. (SK and FB can answer this too please)

TS/Equi/FLP, if you had to choose one of Amrun/SH/SK to go next, who and why? If it was between Bvoigt/FB then who?

If Nobody Special flips scum, I'm killing SleepyKrew straight up. Please refer to this and this. If Nobody Special flips town, I'm probably going after Twistedspoon because the posts where he kept insisting Nobody Special was town based on meta without pressuring the people who used meta to argue for Nobody Special's lynch are scummy in this instance; I'll also have to go back and look at Fruit Basket for pushing the wagon through like a bull stampedes through Pamplona, and it was something I was uneasy about earlier given a guess at one of Fruit Basket's heads.

I'm not voting Amrun or ScreamingHawk. I'm fairly certain they're town: Amrun for matching a lot of my thought patterns when I was rereading the thread, and ScreamingHawk for asking for a claim when this setup is pure vanilla. I do think town are more likely to forget the nature of a setup; scum would be painfully aware of their handicap and would, by association, be aware the setup is vanilla.

[J]

You realize I am Trekker now correct? Does anything I have posted do anything for you?

That was to Bvoigt....? For someone who talks about me needing to read you just missed to things with a simple read. xP My questions please Amrun, thanks.

[Amrun]

You realize I am Trekker now correct? Does anything I have posted do anything for you?

That was to Bvoigt....? For someone who talks about me needing to read you just missed to things with a simple read. xP My questions please Amrun, thanks.

Well when you stick a question right underneath a quoted post of mine and addressed response to me, anyone would assume the question was directed to me.

[J]

Equi, that's something I am going to have to disagree with you on (TSscum possibility) he is possibly one of, if not the most, biggest town-read I have at the current time. The last time I played with him I had the exact same train of thought against him you are having now that his attitude makes you wary and things he is pushing/not pushing is a bit odd but it is coming from a town-intent I see. I do not see the scum intent behind his actions thus far. Plus the point you are making that if NS does flip town, to go after TS is a bit meh. He actually has done that before. I was pushing Jeraco in a game and he said that Jeraco was town for a while and that he was obvtown but I still tried his lynch, Jeraco flipped scum that game. =P

I also wanna say there was something with a person like Hoplip/Ghostlin but my memory is a bit foggy.

I'm also gonna re-look into SK connection to NS since you brought it up because I don't remember noting as such and actually thinking opposite for SK. I think because of there interactions, if one is scum the other cannot be.

Set-up mis-falter is a bit of a WIFOM reason to believe that town would be more likely to slip than scum.

Amrun, I'm just not getting really but maybe he's just weird for me to read.

Lack of scum-picks for me is dis-heartening. The only one I am really curious to look into more is Bvoigt, so what is your opinion on him Equi?

[J]

You realize I am Trekker now correct? Does anything I have posted do anything for you?

That was to Bvoigt....? For someone who talks about me needing to read you just missed to things with a simple read. xP My questions please Amrun, thanks.

Well when you stick a question right underneath a quoted post of mine and addressed response to me, anyone would assume the question was directed to me.

Read why I quoted you and then get back to me. =P

[Equinox]

Equi, that's something I am going to have to disagree with you on (TSscum possibility) he is possibly one of, if not the most, biggest town-read I have at the current time. The last time I played with him I had the exact same train of thought against him you are having now that his attitude makes you wary and things he is pushing/not pushing is a bit odd but it is coming from a town-intent I see. I do not see the scum intent behind his actions thus far. Plus the point you are making that if NS does flip town, to go after TS is a bit meh. He actually has done that before. I was pushing Jeraco in a game and he said that Jeraco was town for a while and that he was obvtown but I still tried his lynch, Jeraco flipped scum that game. =P

I also wanna say there was something with a person like Hoplip/Ghostlin but my memory is a bit foggy.

I'm also gonna re-look into SK connection to NS since you brought it up because I don't remember noting as such and actually thinking opposite for SK. I think because of there interactions, if one is scum the other cannot be.

Set-up mis-falter is a bit of a WIFOM reason to believe that town would be more likely to slip than scum.

Amrun, I'm just not getting really but maybe he's just weird for me to read.

Lack of scum-picks for me is dis-heartening. The only one I am really curious to look into more is Bvoigt, so what is your opinion on him Equi?

We'll see when Twistedspoon gets back to me about the meta thing. In the game you played with him, did Twistedspoon have the same buddying kind of attitude? That's the thing that bothers me more than anything else.

Yeah, setup falters are WIFOM, but I've seen it work often enough that I put my faith in it. There are certain things that scum don't do because they're not in the mindset to do them unless they have extensive experience; ScreamingHawk doesn't fall into the "experienced scum" category, I don't think.

I have a slight town read of bvoigt at the moment for... I have no idea what. It's not in my notes. Bleh. I can look into it if the world ends or something, but otherwise I don't think he's scum with Nobody Special.

[Equinox]

Holy shit, it's Day 1 and we're 30 pages?

[Fruit Basket]

head 2 is sick and cutting down on games. You get more me for a while. fucking a star,

[Fruit Basket]

A Star, or A*

[Fruit Basket]

With the thought process of SHtown in mind, I dislike this post. SH's post does have legit back-up considering if NS does in fact flip town, it does look like Amrun is trying to avoid the town lynch for brownie points. It's WIFOM a tad but still I get why SH is saying that.What explanation from bvoigt? I also don't see SH calling you out on not voting NS but you actually just saying "No NS, let's go another route." but with nothing behind it. Rush the day? No one had really done that either. How is FB wrong in what he says?

Read. The. Game.

I'm tired of playing with people with the reading comprehension of my boyfriend's 3 year old nephew. That's rude and I'll regret it later when I'm less annoyed.

I'm not trying to avoid any lynch. SH's "reasoning" is fucking terrible and makes no sense. SH is town, but I'll probably not be ever taking his reads seriously because they're in la la land so far.

No one can call me out on "not voting NS" because there's NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. I don't have to vote for the popular wagon if I don't want to. I want to push for someone I think is scum over someone I don't really give a crap about one way or the other, like NS. That's how the GAME IS PLAYED. You say you don't like newbs, but you're acting like one. This isn't a 24 hour day where someone forms a wagon and that's just it, they're dead. This is a 3 week deadline and if I think another wagon may be more fruitful than the current wagon. I don't have to push the popular wagon just 'cause. I'm going to push who I think is scum. That's not "nothing behind it." I have a strong read on c_p with perfectly valid reasoning.

However, not pushing NS is NOT DEFENDING. And if I were defending NS, not only would you KNOW, it would not be a scumtell. I have a history of defending my townreads, and I do it vocally and continually. That is not what I am doing here.

If you want to know what explanation from bvoigt, you should maybe, idk, ISO BVOIGT - and again, I discuss this in my own iso.

I don't see a point in switching to NS unless it's deadline, which it isn't. That's what I meant by "not rushing the day."

I explained how FB was wrong about that topic in my iso, when we had a back and forth about it.

I am so tired of explaining to people about shit like this. Fucking read.

^ bad post

[Amrun]

^bad post

[Fruit Basket]

it's only funny when i do it, l2play n00b

anyway Equinox TS paranoia looks legit and is a strong town tell based on what I know of her meta (which may range from an extensive knowledge to not very much at all), his whole roleplaying english gentleman thing is p usual for him, very baller indeed.

[pidgey]

I gotta say i didnt loved the way J hammered. And I also think it wont really tell us much if he flips town? Like, i think everybody found him, at the very least, scummy. I was suspicious of trakker, so my suspicions of you have come back... a bit, because your explanation later is not that bad (although it would have been cool if you had provided that in the same post you hammered)

Still, there might be a chance he flips scum, but i doubt it because like i said earlier, it could just be the town and the scum latching at a bad player. Hopefully he will be scum though.

Quil still bothers me for same reasons, too much meta attack and defense. Why do people suspect NS so much and dont suspect quil? They both have so few content ans its pretty alike.

Amrun raging is null to me. The content of the post itself is kinda townish, so im a little less worried there.

SK getting angry because we hadnt hammer NS is not really good, but i cant tell if thats scummy or something. Also didnt liked TS making cases before theres even a flip.

[Amrun]

his whole roleplaying english gentleman thing is p usual for him

No it's not...

[ScreamingHawk]

Initially thought I had. Sorry. Should start writing all my thoughts for this game down.
Going to have a read through NS past games. Good to join DJ wagon in sec.

Let me ask this question again. Answer it this time

why did you never present your findings from this research? Did you even do this?
What conclusions from his meta did you make that led to you thinking of NS scum?

Lynch was done so I was expecting a fast end to the day...That's why short post.
Nothing came of NS past games. I looked at a couple and wasn't any help to me.

FYI I'm voting NS because of active lurking and zero contribution. V scummy. Though if he isn't scum, I don't see anything of value being lost (answer to answer question I missed answering either) as it's not like he was providing anything useful for town except another player slot.

[fatlikepig]

[quote=Pidgey]Also didnt liked TS making cases before theres even a flip.[/quote]

lolwut

[fatlikepig]

Fail formatting, yay!

[Quilford]

guys guys

I'm confirmed town.

No more shit about me, okay?

Also NS has posted online since the hammer but not here, so that's probably a good thing.

Wish me luck for exams today!

[SleepyKrew]

Skimming skim skim skim
Stuff Amrun has said about the NSwagon is what makes her defscum. She flips from totally against it to saying she'll hammer if necessary and claiming she never attacked the wagon.

[Amrun]

She flips from totally against it to saying she'll hammer if necessary and claiming she never attacked the wagon.

This never happened, in reality. Just fyi.

[Twistedspoon]

I'm confirmed town.

no

Also didnt liked TS making cases before theres even a flip.

I wanted to get my thoughts out before the topic was locked. I felt and still feel strongly that NS will flip town. I've given my reasons why and no-one listened so it's perfectly reasonable for me to be angry atm

Since you seem to disagree, what do you think of the people who so far used meta to argue for Nobody Special-scum (i.e., Equinox and SleepyKrew)?

having been NS's scumbuddy in the past i think i know his meta thankyou

His meta is similar as town or scum. Only difference is (iirc) he lurks even more and is even more reluctant to give names or reasons as scum

Welcome, Twistedspoon. Damn, what are you, some kind of IC?

I wish. I failed my IC test for confusing all the newbies and being too informal

As extremely terrible as that hammer was ... it probably didn't come from scum. *sigh*

explain why you think this please
(I agree J is v. likely probtown though at this stage)

TS/Equi/FLP, if you had to choose one of Amrun/SH/SK to go next, who and why? If it was between Bvoigt/FB then who?

depends on the flip. Everything changes if NS somehow was scum.

NS town and I'd rather it was SH or SK and then FB (I think both FB and bv are town atm)
Ns scum and maybe amrun and probably FB but I find this unlikely

Replacement worry? Don't really see an issue because it could give the mod more time to search during the night phase of the game and also it'd just be another person trying to catch up desperately before deadline like myself and pidgy did. It'd be easier for the replacement to have some time to read during the night.

no, the night phase could end now, no replacement could be found until D2 and the rep won't catch up

whereas if we had a night phase he was around for he would have time to catch up

For the first part of this quote, why do you keep saying "imminent town-flip"? No one knows the deffo answer till flip so....?

that's why i said "(

assuming

imminent town flip)"

My flip wasn't because I was impatient

it sure sounded like you were the way you said

I'd rather wake up to a flip than rather wait all day at school, till after 6 to find a flip.

but I can see your reason for wanting info I guess

Your avatar needs a top hat and a monocle.

Yeah, I'm from the Uk. :p
You'd think in this way too if you had the screwtape letters audio CD played every night for the last week as you went to bed :/

If Nobody Special flips town, I'm probably going after Twistedspoon because the posts where he kept insisting Nobody Special was town based on meta without pressuring the people who used meta to argue for Nobody Special's lynch are scummy in this instance

what?
How am I supposed to convince them that their previous expereince with NS was wrong? HOW?

"sorry chaps, my meta is better than yours. You're all wrong here. You all played with NS on a bad day. My meta is better than yours. My meta wins"

seriously, what?

I also wanna say there was something with a person like Hoplip/Ghostlin but my memory is a bit foggy.

i got hiplop as scum when faraday assured me he was town. I'm still proud of that

We'll see when Twistedspoon gets back to me about the meta thing. In the game you played with him, did Twistedspoon have the same buddying kind of attitude? That's the thing that bothers me more than anything else.

Can I answer this? I'm asking because it isn't addressed to me and you'll only have my word for the comments that I'd make about my own playstyle here.

head 2 is sick and cutting down on games. You get more me for a while. fucking a star,

are you chamber? When you said cases are scummy earlier; that's his catchpharse

i
anyway Equinox TS paranoia looks legit and is a strong town tell based on what I know of her meta (which may range from an extensive knowledge to not very much at all), his whole roleplaying english gentleman thing is p usual for him, very baller indeed.

Don't call me a her

I'd like to know which games of mine you were in if you don't mind saying.

(Just ftr I'm not really an english gent. I'm as far from that as you could actually be, but I enjoy playing to the stereotypes you have of us brits)

FYI I'm voting NS because of active lurking and zero contribution. V scummy. Though if he isn't scum, I don't see anything of value being lost (answer to answer question I missed answering either) as it's not like he was providing anything useful for town except another player slot.

same for quilford and don josh

Sk, stop picking on Amrun. If she is town you're underestimating the true value she has

[Nobody Special]

I have apparently been hammered.


I'm a VT.

Any questions for me?

[Twistedspoon]

one last point I'd like to make

some of you may have noticed quilford's odd obsession with being conf. town.
I have seen this in one game prior. In neither this or that game did I see much reason to view him as such but he did turn out to be town if that's anything to go by

evidence:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3336752
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p3334077
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3338583
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p3338477
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p3338214

[J]

We'll see when Twistedspoon gets back to me about the meta thing. In the game you played with him, did Twistedspoon have the same buddying kind of attitude? That's the thing that bothers me more than anything else.

Yeah, setup falters are WIFOM, but I've seen it work often enough that I put my faith in it. There are certain things that scum don't do because they're not in the mindset to do them unless they have extensive experience; ScreamingHawk doesn't fall into the "experienced scum" category, I don't think.

I have a slight town read of bvoigt at the moment for... I have no idea what. It's not in my notes. Bleh. I can look into it if the world ends or something, but otherwise I don't think he's scum with Nobody Special.

Absolutely did TS have the same attitude to people. Hoooowever, he has a really harsh whiplash on reads that he even buddies. Mine and Faraday's wounds can attest to this.

I love defying what scum wouldn't do so maybe I'm just different. ;P Soo many stories and I'm happy none of them are really known on this site.

Can you get back to me when you read up a bit on Bvoigt? Tell me why you don't think he is scum with NS.