[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Whiskers]

2x Mafia Goons
1x 1-Shot Town Vig
1x 1-Shot Town Twilight "Loverizer"
3x Vanilla Townies

D1: Lynch Vanilla.
T1: Loverize Vanilla and Vanilla.
N1: Vig Lover, Suicide Lover. Mafia-kill Loverizer
Day 2: 1-Shot Vig / 2 Mafia Goons.

Make it

bEEEEgger.

Any game that begins in lylo is game I don't really want to play.

My strategy as Loverizer would be to Not Loverize on the first Twilight, thereby increasing my chances of hitting Mafia-- or, if We lynched Mafia on Day 1, to not Loverize at all.

[izakthegoomba]

But as people said, that's unlikely, and if it happens, the scum deserve the win.

[Hoopla]

It seems like its best play to massclaim to me.

(If scum counterclaim vig then you can allow the vig to vig the other one. If scum counterclaim loverizer then you let the loverizer loverize their counterclaimee and a scaoegoat and the vig vigs the scape goat. With no counterclaim I see around a 0.6 EV.)

Yeah, I think massclaim probably is optimal. It might be okay as a larger game, but I kind of wanted to make a 7p game.

[Whiskers]

Ew, why? If you want a small game, play Magic Train. *SHRUG*

[Guy_Named_Riggs]

I am currently on the mod waiting list for the open games. If I were to present an idea for a game, would I be allowed to mod it?

[Whiskers]

Only if it gets okay'd for balance and stuff.

[Junpei]

No he can't, he has to mod a stock setup picked by Hoopla his first time through the queue.

[Hoopla]

Only if it gets okay'd for balance and stuff.

Junpei is right. The system I'm starting to implement is that first-time mods have to run something off the catalogue. Experienced mods (one successfully modded game) can then design a game or pick whatever they want from the catalogue.

[Mr. Flay]

Only if it gets okay'd for balance and stuff.

Junpei is right. The system I'm starting to implement is that first-time mods have to run something off the catalogue. Experienced mods (one successfully modded game) can then design a game or pick whatever they want from the catalogue.

[Guy_Named_Riggs]

Okay. Thanks. I'll hold off on it till I complete my first mod game.

[Whiskers]

Ah, I thought that was just good sense.

alternatively, you could run a Mini Normal and that'll solve your 1st-time-mod problems.

[animorpherv1]

Hoopla, I applaud you. You've done a lot for the Open Queue.

[BBmolla]

Hoopla, I applaud you. You've done a lot for the Open Queue.

[Whiskers]

I wouldn't know, as I never got to experience the previous implementation. From the changes I'm aware of though, it sounds much more... organized.

[izakthegoomba]

I don't know if something like this has been suggested before (and I'm not going to read 172 pages to find out), but I just this idea for a vengeful game that doesn't place more responsibility in the hands of one Mafioso than another. On paper, it's also more balanced.

Vanilla Vengeful

2 Mafiosi
3 Townies

• If a Townie is lynched on Day 1, they can make a vengeful kill.
• If a Mafioso is lynched (killing doesn't count), the Town immediately wins.


I believe it has a perfect 50/50 EV (sorry if this is formatted wrong):

40% Scum lynched D1 (town win)
60% Town lynched D1 (makes kill)
- 30% Scum killed (next day)
- -10% Scum lynched D2 (town win)
- - 20% Town lynched D2 (scum win)
- 30% Town killed (scum win)

Town win: 40% + 10% = 50%
Scum win: 30% + 20% = 50%

[Junpei]

Izak that looks really boring. And yes EV will tell you that it is balanced, but if you factor in scumhunting, giving the town two consecutive shots wherein 1 hit is the game at lylo is not balanced.

[izakthegoomba]

Why would it be any more boring than the Vengeful we have?

Also, the game only ends instantly if the Mafioso is

lynched

.

[Guy_Named_Riggs]

Ah, I thought that was just good sense.

alternatively, you could run a Mini Normal and that'll solve your 1st-time-mod problems.

I know that, but the open queue line is shorter and moving a lot faster

[izakthegoomba]

And the Mini Normal queue was pretty long and slow last time I looked. I'd definitely just do two Opens in a row.

[Guy_Named_Riggs]

agreed

[Whiskers]

The Mini Normal queue actually waits for the mod to take initiative to post his setup. Somepony who signs up and never posts his ruleset and setup for review will never get his game posts, a player who does it on his first day of /intomod will, I expect, have about a three-months' wait.
But I haven't sent mine in yet, so I'm just approximating about that wait.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Izak, are you under the misconception that regular vengefuls end when the godfather gets vengekilled? Regular vengeful is balanced, so I'm not sure why you're proposing a variant that is obviously town-slanted compared to regular vengeful otherwise.

[Guy_Named_Riggs]

@ Cogito
I've seen your name around this site a lot, but I just now realized what your name means.

Descates famous quote "Cogito Ergo Sum" -> "I think, therefore, I exist."

Of course, that shouldn't be confused with

Cogito eggo sum

- > I think therefore I am a waffle

[2birds1stone]

As far as I know, there's no minimum experience requirement for suggesting open set-ups...

Five Player

Not

Vengeful

One Prostitute (can both roleblock and kill in a night)
One Vigilante (town aligned, can make one kill per night to aid the town, unlimited shots)
Three Vanilla Townies
Day Start.

The idea here is that in a similar setup with all vanillas, the town has an approximately 46.7% chance to win if there is one lynch and one night kill each day and night. In the case of a day-one no lynch, the odds go down to 25%. With day-one and day-two no lynches, the odds go up to about 33% percent. None of these figures can take into account scum-hunting, but I'm reading this as a roughly balanced, slightly anti-town game. The theory behind

5PNV

is that with a vig and prostitute, it should be both more balanced and more interesting. (YMMV on whether a game with only one mislynch allowed and a maximum length of three days is interesting).

The obvious flaws to me are the fact that the game can end on day one, and that if a trigger-happy vigilante decides that its his god-given right to 'win' the game for the town, things get messy (I had this happen when I tried to run the game with a few of my friends). One particular quirk of gameplay as that VTs are the only players with an incentive to claim vig, making claiming (fake or otherwise) difficult, if possible at all.

This game is also runnable with six players (one extra VT) and a night start, however, I'm not a big fan of night starts.

[callforjudgement]

As far as I know, there's no minimum experience requirement for suggesting open set-ups...

It seems reasonable for a 1:4 setup, but scumhunting is generally more interesting if the scumteam has at least two members (otherwise, there's nothing really to look for). I think Vengeful is designed specifically to fit a 2-man scumteam into a 5p game, and this setup misses that point.