Open 347: White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

[bvoigt]

ALSO YEAH, Fat did "sliped", but as I said, that means nothing. Would be stupid to give him a free townie pass (Same for Screaming Hawk).

Not really liking the back and forth of FB and Amrun (not saying the 2 are scum though, that's a longshot). However, why do you think they are both town bvoigt?

Gut mainly.

[fatlikepig]

Would be stupid to give him a free townie pass (Same for Screaming Hawk).

Do you /really/ think that scum would fake something like, "HEY, DOES GREEN MEAN TOWN OR SCUM?!"

[Quilford]

Yes.

[Quilford]

Especially newbscum who've seen it work for other players.

Plus it's something so obvious that the answer should be clear after about .5 seconds. Is there green in the Town Role PM?

[Quilford]

No there isn't.

[fatlikepig]

Only red in your Role PM amirite

[Quilford]

Actually the colour blue is used throughout both Role PMs.

[ScreamingHawk]

OK GUYS. Most games I play (IRL) the dead don't get flipped and so you don't learn roles until game over. I'm obviously unfamiliar with this game type. And since jerobbo made a read on a dead player (why would you do this?), I was unsure and thought I should get clarification.

[ScreamingHawk]

tbh, I think his reads list is quite genuine. I find it more townie at this stage to call a large number of players null as scum would try to make their reads as unoticable and generic as possible to blend in and stay safe. Jer's reads are neither generic or unoticable and I find that rather town in a small sense. I agree that a list of null reads is unhelpful and disappointing as well though.
My logic against the NS lynch was that scum wouldn't want to stick out as much and be as bold as he was. I think the same may be true here.

Doesn't a large number of null reads satisfy the notions of "unnoticable and generic"? A strong scum read or town read just makes it more likely that people will disagree and possibly argue with you.

I'm also reposting this because I agree whole heartedly and would like to see comment from TS.

[SleepyKrew]

Dear whoever asked, I think that Quil post is incredibly bad and would like some reasoning behind it.
Now why did you ask me that question?

[Twistedspoon]

tbh, I think his reads list is quite genuine. I find it more townie at this stage to call a large number of players null as scum would try to make their reads as unoticable and generic as possible to blend in and stay safe. Jer's reads are neither generic or unoticable and I find that rather town in a small sense. I agree that a list of null reads is unhelpful and disappointing as well though.
My logic against the NS lynch was that scum wouldn't want to stick out as much and be as bold as he was. I think the same may be true here.

Doesn't a large number of null reads satisfy the notions of "unnoticable and generic"? A strong scum read or town read just makes it more likely that people will disagree and possibly argue with you.

I'm also reposting this because I agree whole heartedly and would like to see comment from TS.

not really

By blending in I meant having the same town and scum reads as many of the other players or the stronger members of the town without many reasons to back them up. All to fit in of course

However Jer sticks out. Many nulls is just an overly-cautious townie not sure who to brand with which iron. And yes, he does look very awkward with his reads list, where i'd see a scum replacement merely sheep the strongest members of the town for their reads to get in their good bookss and fit in.
This is what i mean

Of course, I also agree with Bv's reason of "Gut" as i said earlier

[Twistedspoon]

Post #3 in my ISO.

that may not be a slip
even scum could confuse days until lynch. It's just a mistake

SH's was a townslip of sorts because he didn't know if NS was town for sure yet but as scum he would

[Amrun]

Can we just acknowledge that SH is practically confirmed town and move on?

TS giving me townvibes... Having a hard time moving on from my intense c_p scumread, though.

[jerobbo]

However Jer sticks out. Many nulls is just an overly-cautious townie not sure who to brand with which iron. And yes, he does look very awkward with his reads list, where i'd see a scum replacement merely sheep the strongest members of the town for their reads to get in their good bookss and fit in.
This is what i mean

Exactly - I've replaced in and put my opinion out there, however I'm of course being cautious because I'm still getting a feel for everyone.

As for why I gave a read on a dead player - it's because it was related to my FB / Amrun point and no I don't think that's particularly unusual?

I still like FB and Amrun for scum but there isn't too much more to go on

My town list right now reads as : SH, TS and Quilford

Anyone else I'm very unsure on

[Equinox]

so uh

Good news is that I'm caught up. Bad news is that I'm confused as all hell, and this game gives me a headache.

ScreamingHawk, fatlikepig, Amrun, Quilford, Fruit Basket, jerobbo, Twistedspoon are all reading to me as town right now. ScreamingHawk is obv. fatlikepig's been feeling like town. Amrun I haven't really changed my mind on, and her interactions with Fruit Basket haven't changed my mind either. I agree with Twistedspoon that Quilford's "I'M CONFIRMED TOWN YOU GUYS" is too bold for scum, and it gives me flashbacks to what I used to do when I used my red text meta. Twistedspoon says funny things but sounds genuine, as does jerobbo. Fruit Basket would have NKed me, seriously.

That leaves bvoigt, pidgey, and SleepyKrew, who I'll reread later. And I might as well reread everyone else too because clearly I have too many town reads.

Bleh. I don't know. Honestly, I shouldn't be posting before I actually reread the things I need to read -- the stuff above, the votes on Nobody Special, looking at voting patterns, figuring out why [J] is dead, etc., etc. -- but it's late and I want to sleep, and I also don't want to lose my train of thought because it took me hours to get it back for this game.

Hmm. Actually, rereading my post gave me a thought about doing reverse NK analysis, which could be more fruitful. Remind me to do this after my meeting tomorrow when my brain's fresher.

Mod: Please include a list of who is not voting in the vote counts. Thanks!

[Equinox]

Whoever thinks fat is town because he had a "slip" is dumb. He could be scum and could thought that. Or fake it. Or whatever. I myself thought we had to get all the scum since like 4 real life days ago, when I actually reread the opening post.

I have a question. You thought we had to get all the scum by the end of Day 1. Ergo, you misunderstood the setup. Why do you think it's unreasonable to attribute misunderstanding the setup as a town tell?

[jerobbo]

As for why [J] was killed...

I wanna look into Quil/FB/Bvoigt/DJ's slot toMorrow most liiiiikely. Same with SH but I'm probably gonna have to re-read that slot sometime.

Everyone I'm comfortable with for now.

That was pretty much the last thing he said, which obviously drops suspicion at those peoples doors (As well as Amrun who [J] voted for)

So that gives us Quil, FB, Bvoigt and Amrun

Interestingly, unless I'm mistaken [J] is the only one who was suspicious of Bvoigt and he turns up dead. Quil, FB and Amrun would probably have other targets if they were scum (which I still think FB and Amrun are)

That puts FB, Amrun and Bvoigt on the top of my list for another re-read

[Quilford]

My theory is that scum isn't really coming under any heavy scrutiny at the moment so [J] made the perfect confusion kill.

[jerobbo]

Certainly possible - who are you thinking then?

[bvoigt]

Dear whoever asked, I think that Quil post is incredibly bad and would like some reasoning behind it.
Now why did you ask me that question?

I will explain after you answer one more thing: do you find those kinds of posts bad in general, or is it on a case-by-case basis, and you don't think Quil is the type of player to say that he's obvtown?

@Twistedspoon: That does make sense, I have to admit.

Can we just acknowledge that SH is practically confirmed town and move on?

This.

[Morthas]

Day 2 Votecount the Second

Amrun

- Fruit Basket, SleepyKrew L-4

Twistedspoon

- bvoigt L-5

quillford

- pidgey L-5

jerobbo

- Quilford, ScreamingHawk, L-4

fruit basket

- Amrun, jerobbo L-4

Not Voting:

- fatlikepig, Equinox, Twistedspoon


With 11 Alive - 6 to lynch

Day 2 deadline: Sunday, 20th of November

V / LA until Saturday - ScreamingHawk
V/LA until Sunday, hopefully less - SleepyKrew

[pidgey]

Whoever thinks fat is town because he had a "slip" is dumb. He could be scum and could thought that. Or fake it. Or whatever. I myself thought we had to get all the scum since like 4 real life days ago, when I actually reread the opening post.

I have a question. You thought we had to get all the scum by the end of Day 1. Ergo, you misunderstood the setup. Why do you think it's unreasonable to attribute misunderstanding the setup as a town tell?

Because it can easily be faked (SH) or it can be an actual misunderstanding (fatpig). Im not saying this is the case here but no way am i giving anyone a free pass for something like that. Say, i also didnt knew if j was town or scum, i was gonna ask in the day if i wasnt nightkilled, but when J flipped i saw he was green and i said ok.

(also i thought that you had to get all the scum, period. Not all the scum before day 1 ended.)

[pidgey]

Whoever thinks fat is town because he had a "slip" is dumb. He could be scum and could thought that. Or fake it. Or whatever. I myself thought we had to get all the scum since like 4 real life days ago, when I actually reread the opening post.

I have a question. You thought we had to get all the scum by the end of Day 1. Ergo, you misunderstood the setup. Why do you think it's unreasonable to attribute misunderstanding the setup as a town tell?

Because it can easily be faked (SH) or it can be an actual misunderstanding (fatpig). Im not saying this is the case here but no way am i giving anyone a free pass for something like that. Say, i also didnt knew if j was town or scum, i was gonna ask in the day if i wasnt nightkilled, but when J flipped i saw he was green and i said ok.

(also i thought that you had to get all the scum, period. Not all the scum before day 1 ended.)

[pidgey]

Whoever thinks fat is town because he had a "slip" is dumb. He could be scum and could thought that. Or fake it. Or whatever. I myself thought we had to get all the scum since like 4 real life days ago, when I actually reread the opening post.

I have a question. You thought we had to get all the scum by the end of Day 1. Ergo, you misunderstood the setup. Why do you think it's unreasonable to attribute misunderstanding the setup as a town tell?

Because it can easily be faked (SH) or it can be an actual misunderstanding (fatpig). Im not saying this is the case here but no way am i giving anyone a free pass for something like that. Say, i also didnt knew if j was town or scum, i was gonna ask in the day if i wasnt nightkilled, but when J flipped i saw he was green and i said ok.

(also i thought that you had to get all the scum, period. Not all the scum before day 1 ended.)

[pidgey]

Lol wtf!

Sorry about that