Mini 1266 - My iTunes Mafia - GAME OVER


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Post Post #250 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:32 am

Post by Painted Face of Death »

In post 243, DeltaWave wrote:I've done my read through. Before I share my impressions, I have a few questions.

(1) Painted Face of Death - Why so serious in #29?


29 was a response to Slandaar's first post, 28, which was just to quote Sken asking what I thought was a reasonable question and then vote her. I thought that was odd so I took it seriously enough to FOS but not seriously enough to vote. The quoting made it look like Slandaar thought Sken's question was super scummy and I was kinda baffled by that. (IIRC Slan's since explained that he thought Sken asking DV why he didn't post his reasons was a dumb question since it was an obvious fishing tactic by DV; my own philosophy is that posting some sort of reason or explanation is important even if you're fishing.)
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Post Post #251 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:43 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 249, DeltaWave wrote:
2. Why are you so concerned with me being concerned about you asking me for my read on you?

I want to know your read on me, why are you so unwilling to give it?

I will give my read on you, i think you be scum.
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Post Post #252 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:54 am

Post by DeltaWave »

In post 250, Painted Face of Death wrote:
29 was a response to Slandaar's first post, 28, which was just to quote Sken asking what I thought was a reasonable question and then vote her. I thought that was odd so I took it seriously enough to FOS but not seriously enough to vote. The quoting made it look like Slandaar thought Sken's question was super scummy and I was kinda baffled by that. (IIRC Slan's since explained that he thought Sken asking DV why he didn't post his reasons was a dumb question since it was an obvious fishing tactic by DV; my own philosophy is that posting some sort of reason or explanation is important even if you're fishing.)


Thanks for replying to my question. I'll ponder this because I think it may be relevant in the future.

In post 251, Slandaar wrote:
In post 249, DeltaWave wrote:
2. Why are you so concerned with me being concerned about you asking me for my read on you?

I want to know your read on me, why are you so unwilling to give it?

I will give my read on you, i think you be scum.


It seems odd that you would be concerned with how I perceive you when you aren't under any particular pressure or at the risk of a lynch. If you were town, I don't see why this would be a big issue for you. If you were at L-1 or 2 and I was a possible hammer vote, I could see town asking that question, but we're not in that situation. Why are you interested in getting feedback as to how you come off? My read on you is still undetermined, pending the resolution of this conversation.
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Post Post #253 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:06 am

Post by DeltaWave »

Current Song: Judas Priest - Breaking the Law
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Post Post #254 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:07 am

Post by Noramp »

Painted why are you dodging my question?
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Post Post #255 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:10 am

Post by Slandaar »

I was interested what you thought due to meta, but whatever, I think you are scum who knew this and was just trying to avoid giving the read, you should know i ask questions like this, so your suspicion is unfounded, which again takes me to the same conclusion, along with your offcharacter intro i find you highly suspicious in your 4/5 posts.
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Post Post #256 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:12 am

Post by DeltaWave »

In post 255, Slandaar wrote:I was interested what you thought due to meta, but whatever, I think you are scum who knew this and was just trying to avoid giving the read, you should know i ask questions like this, so your suspicion is unfounded, which again takes me to the same conclusion, along with your offcharacter intro i find you highly suspicious in your 4/5 posts.


I don't know much about your meta. I've only played one game with you before (my newbie game.) Why would I avoid giving a read on you?
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Post Post #257 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:26 am

Post by Slandaar »

by me saying why i want the read, it nullifys your response which is why you avoided it until i gave you the reason.
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Post Post #258 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:57 am

Post by DeltaWave »

In post 257, Slandaar wrote:by me saying why i want the read, it nullifys your response which is why you avoided it until i gave you the reason.


You seem very defensive. It's highly unusual to randomly ask for a read like that, and twice as unusual to act defensive when your question is scrutinized. I had previously read you as null but you've gained a few scumpoints. I have my eye on you. For now, though, I'm fine with my vote staying where it is.
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Post Post #259 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:14 am

Post by DeasVail »

uh, Delta: What do you actually think of Skenvoy?
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Post Post #260 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:21 am

Post by DeltaWave »

In post 259, DeasVail wrote:uh, Delta: What do you actually think of Skenvoy?


Bingo, that's the million dollar question. I was hoping Slandaar would ask this and then I could award him a few townpoints. The important issue is not what I think of Slandaar, who is not suspected, but what I think about Sken, who my predecessor voted and I obviously haven't unvoted. DV, you get the townpoints instead. Two of them.

Skenvoy is actually not the scummiest player in my eyes. Much of his case was based on meta, which I don't buy. But I do think there is some virtue in keeping my vote on him, if only to produce pressure that might let me extract more information. There are some questions I want answered but asking them would give away too much, so maybe pressure is the only way for me to get what I want.
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Post Post #261 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:37 am

Post by DeasVail »

The thing is, if it wasn't for meta, I wouldn't be voting Skenvoy. Her play seems off to me.

Because of this, I don't understand why so many are voting for her, thinking she's most likely to be scum. This causes me to doubt that she is scum and think she is town with scum attacking her, but then I realise I'm making too many assumptions and maybe others do actually find her scummy.
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Post Post #262 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:42 am

Post by DeltaWave »

In post 261, DeasVail wrote:The thing is, if it wasn't for meta, I wouldn't be voting Skenvoy. Her play seems off to me.

Because of this, I don't understand why so many are voting for her, thinking she's most likely to be scum. This causes me to doubt that she is scum and think she is town with scum attacking her, but then I realise I'm making too many assumptions and maybe others do actually find her scummy.


It sounds like you're playing the "what if" game too much. One problem with looking at whose play "seems off" is that, generally speaking, almost everyone is likely to "seem off" at one point or another. So scumminess is not absolute, just a range. I have my eyebrow raised at Skenvoy; they have done some erratic things, but I'm not convinced that Skenvoy is the scummiest person here.
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Post Post #263 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:14 am

Post by Slandaar »

Im not voting Sken based on any meta information at all.
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Post Post #264 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:17 am

Post by DeltaWave »

In post 263, Slandaar wrote:Im not voting Sken based on any meta information at all.


Is there any one piece of evidence against Sken that you find to be the most convincing?
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Post Post #265 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:34 am

Post by DeasVail »

Delta, who do you think is the scummiest person here?
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Post Post #266 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:33 am

Post by DeltaWave »

In post 265, DeasVail wrote:Delta, who do you think is the scummiest person here?


The case against Painted is overwhelming.
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Post Post #267 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:41 am

Post by DeasVail »

At this point I think I'd support either a Skenvoy or Painted lynch, with [J] probably being my third suspect.
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Post Post #268 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:46 am

Post by DeltaWave »

In post 267, DeasVail wrote:At this point I think I'd support either a Skenvoy or Painted lynch, with [J] probably being my third suspect.


At this moment in time, Painted is scummier than Skenvoy.
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Post Post #269 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:53 am

Post by Slandaar »

The main thing which stands out to me about sken is the absolute lack on any real conviction in her scum hunting, like she does not seem to say someone is scum and stick to it or push it. Its like she is not trying to scum hunt.
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Post Post #270 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:54 am

Post by DeasVail »

In post 268, DeltaWave wrote:
In post 267, DeasVail wrote:At this point I think I'd support either a Skenvoy or Painted lynch, with [J] probably being my third suspect.


At this moment in time, Painted is scummier than Skenvoy.


I agree, but I think Painted is more likely than Skenvoy to be a scummy townie (from what I've seen of Skenvoy)
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Post Post #271 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:07 pm

Post by Painted Face of Death »

In post 254, Noramp wrote:Painted why are you dodging my question?


I answered it in post 190, the answer being that I've explained over and over that the only "defense" of Sken I was doing was attacking DV for being scummy.
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Post Post #272 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:08 pm

Post by Skenvoy »

Okay, I'm basically reading through the game again, and posting my thoughts as I go.

Posts 15 - 17: J says that he doesn't like meta, which actually supports his read on me later on.
Post 29: I find it curious that Painted fos'd Slandaar but didn't vote him, considering Painted's vote was still there from RVS. Painted, why didn't you vote Slandaar then?
Post 30: I wasn't worried about the vote, I wanted to confirm that you did it for the reasons I suspected. Or are people under suspicion not allowed to scumhunt?
Post 31: Well, we're still quite close to RVS, I guess. The reasons are fairly weak, but valid.
Post 32: Didn't notice this before, but Slandaar's post here in relation to Deasveil is actually fairly similar to Painted's first post in relation to me - he's questioning an attack on someone else before that person has a chance to address it themselves.
Post 33 - 34: That's a fair enough conclusion at that stage of the game.
Post 35: I'm actually not sure about this post...I agree than Painted overreacted, but honestly, most everyone did. If you think your post was just RVS and not worth overreacting to, why didn't you comment on Slandaar's vote as well?
Post 39: Okay, that explains it a little better, but I'm still not sure I agree, because that's without a doubt nitpicking - talking about the format of a case rather than its content.
Post 41: I don't like this post at all. Seems a little too much like subtle buddying.

Okay, something I've just realised. It's almost impossible for me to read Painted clearly - I'm too intertwined in his scumminess/not scumminess. I mean, I just can't get a read on him without my emotions interfering. If someone really wants me to post a case on him, I will, but it'll be completely biased.

Post 46: I'm not sure about this one. I guess town could have very strong reads earlier in the game, but it seems more likely that scum would. I don't know.
Post 47: The thing about this post is that your only vote was from RVS - you obviously felt somewhat suspicious of Slandaar, so wouldn't even slight suspicion be better than a vote for no reason at all?
Post 49: The thing about this, Painted, is that it was a
day one vote
. In most games, that's still RVS (and it was RVS here). You don't need good reasoning in RVS.

End of Page 2. Thoughts so far: Slandaar is looking worse to me on a second readthrough, although I wouldn't vote for him yet. Posting in blocks to avoid a wall post.

PEdit: Yeah, I admit I haven't been scumhunting as much as I could have (which I'm trying to rectify at the moment). This is the first time in a mafia game where I've really been under proper pressure, and since it's been practically from the beginning of the game, I've been less helpful than I could've been. I know it's not much of an excuse, but I
am
trying to scumhunt properly now.
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Post Post #273 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:09 pm

Post by Slandaar »

@DV/Delta

How about you do this

ISO painted

And use this information when reading it:
Deas's initial vote was complete bs.

Does it change your view at all?
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Post Post #274 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:10 pm

Post by DeltaWave »

@Slandaar - In what way do you mean "BS"? Like, badly reasoned or intentionally badly reasoned or what...
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