Open 348 - JK9 Game over (Who won?)

[ConSpiracy]

Random fact #8

Playing mafia real life is hard core!

jerobbo replaces [L], effective immediately.
IceGuy replaces Meji Fan, effective immediately.

Votecount

Pads (0)

-

smallpeoples343 (0)

-

apple_singer (0)

-

Pine (0)

-

jerobbo (2)

- smallpeoples343,

Pomegranate

Pomegranate (2)

- Pine,

apple_singer

IceGuy (1)

- Skenvoy

Skenvoy (0)

-

No lynch (1)

- jerobbo

Not voting (2)

-

Pads

,

IceGuy

With

8 alive

, it takes

5 to lynch

.
Day 2 ends on

Monday November 21rd 9 p.m. GMT+1

. That is

(expired on 2011-11-21 16:00:00)

from now.

[IceGuy]

Reads, sorted from "town" to "scum":

I have a solid townread on

Pine

, especially since the hypoclaiming idea (which is flawed here for reasons already discussed) is something that is much more likely to come from town than not.

Pads

looks generally town, however I don't like his absence in the critical phase on D1, gives me a "scum watches town mislynch" vibe.

small

looks scummy at first glance, but due to [REDACTED] I'm more on the side of dumbtown.

Undecided on

apple_singer

. On the one hand, there is the typical active lurking and appearing to be useful when he isn't:

Hmm, the no kill does seem suspicious. Probably jailkeeper either roleblocked mafia or protected the person that was killed.

NO SHIT SHERLOCK
On the other hand, his voting behavior is town. Especially the diversion of the easy duckhunter mislynch with a kondi case does not seem like something scum would do.

Mattman/Pomegranade

gets the second-strongest scumread; she's been active lurking her way through the game (playing to her scum meta), and her votes have been the typical opportunistic ones. Also I don't like her opposition to the jailkeeper claim idea.

I have a weak townread on

Skenvoy/JonW007

. JonW007 came off rather scummy, but Skenvoy's posting and voting behavior looks town.

[L]/jerobbo

is my strongest scumread, with her general noncommittal behavior and her many contradictions:

I want kondi to answer my questions. I refuse to lynch and not have more info.

The point I'm trying to make - is that there is no reason to rush this lynch before we hear from kondi.

[L], are you willing to hammer kondi?

I am willing.

Then

Vote: kondi

.

without a single kondi post inbetween.

The town response to a siteflake is a replacement demand, NOT a quicklynch.

And the no-lynch issue:

I believe that doing a no-lynch provides mafia with a free kill.

Of course no lynch does this.

I agree. We can't give scum an advantage.

vote: no lynch

Together with the fact she left the game when she began getting heat that's enough for me.

jerobbo's one post without new insights where he says

I could continue. Suggest you all ISO smallpeoples now and have a read, has to be todays lynch for me. I'd say I'm 90% sure scum with a 10% possibility of terrible Town play. I'm sure everyone would agree that's a risk worth taking at this stage.

but still doesn't vote him doesn't do anything to change my read.

Therefore, VOTE: jerobbo (L-2).

---

I believe the jailkeeper should claim. We have the watcher to scare scum from killing the JK, and the JK has a 50% chance of a guilty result. Since a mislynch and a successful kill puts us into a MyLo situation tomorrow, and the failhypoclaim has probably already indicated to scum who the JK might be, we should not waste this opportunity.

[jerobbo]

Oops, forgot to

Unvote, vote smallpeoples

[IceGuy]

EBWOP:

@Mod: Please extend the deadline in light of the replacements.

[IceGuy]

EBWOP2:

For some reason, I failed at sorting the reads. The correct order (town -> scum) is:
Pine
Pads
Skenvoy/JonW007
small
apple_singer
Mattman/Pomegranade
[L]/jerobbo

[jerobbo]

jerobbo's one post without new insights where he says

I could continue. Suggest you all ISO smallpeoples now and have a read, has to be todays lynch for me. I'd say I'm 90% sure scum with a 10% possibility of terrible Town play. I'm sure everyone would agree that's a risk worth taking at this stage.

but still doesn't vote him doesn't do anything to change my read.

Therefore, VOTE: jerobbo (L-2).

My bad on the vote - already sorted that.

As for your points against [L] - The hammer on Kondi is a bit out of the blue sure, but the posts leading up to that were pretty Town and I can imagine everyone in the game was pretty frustrated with the slow movement. No one seemed to have a problem with the hammer at the time. It's all well and good now, hindsight is of course 20/20.

The no lynch vote is something that a few people discussed and seemed to agree on. I agree that it's a bad move, but not neccesarily scummy, it's a complicated game and people get things wrong, at least [L] stuck to her guns.

As for getting heat and leaving the game, if this were a courtroom that would be struck from the record, nobody knows what anyone else has going on in RL, I would never use somebody leaving a game as a scum-tell and I think it's poor of you to do so.

I of course second the request of more time, not just because I'm -2 from a mis-lynch but because I think it's fair after 2 replacements coming in.

[IceGuy]

Just a question, when you replaced in did you actually ISO [L] and read what she wrote?

[jerobbo]

Just a question, when you replaced in did you actually ISO [L] and read what she wrote?

I didn't - I just read through then got my real scummy read on smallpeoples, ISO'd him and posted. Didn't see much point in ISO'ng the person I replaced since they are no longer in the game and I know they were Town. (Bearing in mind this is only my 2nd replacement so I have no idea if that is common practice or what, just seemed a waste of time).

[apple_singer]

Yay for replacements.

So anyways the main thing I take away from the last day or so is this:

small looks scummy at first glance, but due to [REDACTED] I'm more on the side of dumbtown.

In mafia, the only legitimate reason you'd hide information is if you're mafia (obviously) or if you're a PR and don't want to be revealed. Seeing as he suggested for the JK to claim, I doubt he is one; thus, I think he is either mafia or tracker. Not sure which is more likely; I'll have to read that spot in ISO.

[Pine]

Citing information from an ongoing game as [REDACTED] is a common thing on this site. It skirts the rules, but just barely.

[Pine]

You get scumpoints for the rolefishing, though.

[ConSpiracy]

EBWOP:

@Mod: Please extend the deadline in light of the replacements.

Hmm... The day already lasted far too long. I will grant you two more days, but that is all.

Day 2 ends on

Monday November 23rd 9 p.m. GMT+1

. That is

(expired on 2011-11-23 16:00:00)

from now.

[IceGuy]

Citing information from an ongoing game as [REDACTED] is a common thing on this site. It skirts the rules, but just barely.

This.

[apple_singer]

Whoops misinterpretation sorry.

I have a question to everyone based on accusations I've seen: Is it OK in mafia to go back on what you said some time earlier?

I'll answer it myself first: Usually, I'd say no; going back on what you said is to me a sign of scum trying to place attention on whoever's scummiest and start a bandwagon; on things like No Lynch, it's just going with the flow and trying not to get noticed.
If a significant piece of information arises (aka a flip, PR claim, etc) and the change in opinion makes sense, I say it is OK; but only here is that the case.

[Skenvoy]

How do you mean? Apart from facts, or claims, or anything, I think it's generally okay, as long as there's justification. I don't see a problem with saying "I have a scum read on X because blah blah blah" on page 4, and then saying "I no longer have a scum read on X because blah blah blah" on page 7, as long as your reasons make sense (and are, y'know, convincing).

[Pads]

Jerobbo made a case against Smallpeople for doing one of the things that [L] did (the flipflop on the no-lynch policy). His defense (since I'm assuming this is what Ice was getting at) is that he didn't read [L]'s posts.

I don't even know what to say to that. When I replace into a game, I don't particularly feel obligated to explain everything the person I'm replacing said or did, but I sure as hell make sure to

know

what they said or did.

I think a scum is more likely to do what [L] did than a town is. But, more importantly, I know the town has to police itself. It can't let that behavior slide, or else scum will just come in and hammer whatever wagons they want, forever, and skitter away with no consequences every single time. I'm sure someone will call that fearmongering, but I would argue that it's simple good sense to value accountability. I'm quite ready for the lynch of that PM.

vote: Jerobbo

[jerobbo]

Jerobbo made a case against Smallpeople for doing one of the things that [L] did (the flipflop on the no-lynch policy). His defense (since I'm assuming this is what Ice was getting at) is that he didn't read [L]'s posts.

There is no 'defense' from me. I can't be held responsible for my predecessors actions (unless they are overtly and obviously scummy of course). Also, I never said I didn't read [L]'s posts, don't twist my words. I've read the entire thread thoroughly. What I said was I did not ISO the person I replaced as I felt that was a waste of time and I don't feel like I need to focus on their actions as they are no longer in the game and I know they're Town.

I wasn't particularly making a case against smallpeoples based on that either. If you read my post and then read his ISO I fail to see how anyone can not think his behavior this game has been scummy.

[IceGuy]

Do we have a hammer vote lined up? If yes, state so. DO NOT HAMMER IMMEDIATELY. Give jerobbo a chance to claim.

[jerobbo]

Do we have a hammer vote lined up? If yes, state so. DO NOT HAMMER IMMEDIATELY. Give jerobbo a chance to claim.

I'm a Vanilla Townie, since I've just replaced in I'm obviously not close to this game yet so if you feel lynching me will give you good info based on peoples relationships with [L] then I can understand, I'd even self-hammer if that's what people want - but I don't see what info a mis-lynch here gives you based on my reading of the thread.

[IceGuy]

I'm a Vanilla Townie, since I've just replaced in I'm obviously not close to this game yet so if you feel lynching me will give you good info based on peoples relationships with [L] then I can understand, I'd even self-hammer if that's what people want - but I don't see what info a mis-lynch here gives you based on my reading of the thread.

I don't want to lynch you because it gives me information. I want to lynch you because you're scum.

[jerobbo]

I'm a Vanilla Townie, since I've just replaced in I'm obviously not close to this game yet so if you feel lynching me will give you good info based on peoples relationships with [L] then I can understand, I'd even self-hammer if that's what people want - but I don't see what info a mis-lynch here gives you based on my reading of the thread.

I don't want to lynch you because it gives me information. I want to lynch you because you're scum.

Then you're going to feel silly when I flip Town and you have a mis-lynch and no info.

[IceGuy]

Do not hammer until we have a JK claim.

[IceGuy]

Oh, and UNVOTE: to prevent self-hammer.

[Pine]

I am quickly growing suspicious of IceGuy's insistence on a Jailkeeper claim. Most of us have already agreed to my just-in-case mass JK claim, so why would he bother going for an outright JK claim as Town?

On that note, I'm going to run through the thread and compile who has and hasn't responded to that.

[IceGuy]

I am quickly growing suspicious of IceGuy's insistence on a Jailkeeper claim. Most of us have already agreed to my just-in-case mass JK claim, so why would he bother going for an outright JK claim as Town?

Because your mass JK claim benefits scum much more than town (I believe this has been pointed out already).

Scum knew whom they sent to kill and whom they killed, so they can narrow down the field of possible JKs. Town can't tell them apart, so the watcher can't watch the JK, and the claim is only useful when the JK is dead.