New York 138: OxyMoron Mafia :: Game Over!

[Oversoul]

Negative on Mastin from gunsmith result.

You pretty much nailed my thought on the Xeras kill, Mastin (the wifom).

I don't like Empking, redFF, and Fat in that order. Is there any reason why you think Fat is the SK other than today's posts?

[Oversoul]

Negative on Mastin from gunsmith result.

So you're claiming that your limited shot is not 4x? Or did the jailkeep end up not counting against you? You confusalate me.

Thor god damn it you ruined my gambit. ._. Fat already fell for it too >_>

Fat, no I didn't investigate Mastin. I don't have any shots.

Mastin, I know that the Pine kill is from likely Amateur SK, but I still don't like Empking's intereactions with Thor yesterday. After claiming, I consider Thor pretty much confirmed town. The Xeras kill last night also makes it seem like amateur kill as I would be trying to remove the confirmed town from the game before going after inactives, but I guess the SK went after wifom. :\

Feelings about redFF? He took that "insult" personally when I called the SK dumb so...

[Oversoul]

Isn't that slightly omgus, Thor? Would you think that Mastin would make those two kills as SK, though?

[Oversoul]

VOTE: epm

why has this "confirmed town" not been nk'd yet. this shit is ridiculous.

Why hasn't Thor died? Why haven't I died? We have either mindfuck SK or bad SK.

Thor, he counterclaimed me when I claimed Day 1 thinking the mod wouldn't include another powerrole in the neighborhood. O_o

[Oversoul]

Oh, right.

Oversoul, you still haven't told us what purpose your failed gambit was intended to serve.

Personally, I wanted to see Mastin's reaction, to see if he acted in a more forceful manner with semi confirmedness, but he acted normally and then Thor outted the gambit so...

[Oversoul]

In other news, unlike Nobody, I'm sort of

planning to not even read all those pages,

because it looks like a lot of work. Somebody should tell me who scum is and also who the obv. town players I should sheep are.

Have you, at any point, read anything prior to your replacing in? Just curious.

vote: fatlikepig

Can you expand on this, like, with reasoning and stuffs?

Oversoul & Mastin: Can you ask any Tracker to come out, please.

I'm curious why you asked this of those two players, specifically.

Probably because we are the two most townies players. Do you agree with a Fatlikepig lynch?

[Oversoul]

6. fatlikepig LTP Mafia
8. redFF
3. Nobody Special Vifam
4. Thor665 Lady Lambadelta BomberMan
7. evilpacman18
1. Empking

Rough suspect order right now. {Empking, Evil} are practically interchangeable for towniness, and {redFF, NS} are almost interchangeable with nullness.

Better list.

[Oversoul]

Have you, at any point, read anything prior to your replacing in? Just curious.

In general? Yes.
In this game? Not at all, I probably have gone back and read a handful of posts, but if those posts are more than 10 I would be shocked.

@Oversoul - if you like mastin's list would you like to tell me where I went wrong with my opinion as regards redFF? I think he's in a totally silly position. If we pull him out and replace his name with Mastin, and then stick red back in somewhere...oh...let's say below Empking or so, then the list might start to resemble remotely good. As stands - not so much. Thoughts?

EBWOP - I now officially support a NS lynch more than I did before. Unless he's angling for fat = SK that's a pretty meh wagon.

Ninja SK is the SK in this game. NO WAY it isn't with a tracker, watcher, and a voyeur... I am being paranoid here. I am willing to give red the benefit of the doubt, but he played right into my bait insult yesterday.

Mastin I feel is strong town searching for SK and he looks legitimate.

[Oversoul]

If we're tryin to figure out the setup, should remaining PRs claim?

Oh dear god if you are a PR in addition to the unclaimed Tracker. O_o

This right here looks like very town mastin. He gets into these habits of massive role speculation and somehow pulls something of worth out of it. What is your theory, Mastin?

[Oversoul]

Well, sad to say, but the game isn't broken (yet).

Well it is since Thor is the last one left and he's caught and tied up.

You're giving me more town vibes by becoming active. Empking, why don't you post like this all the time?

Is your only reason that you think Thor is scum because he has that tracker?

Since NS isn't the tracker. Who the fuck is? Fat?

[Oversoul]

Mass claim time?

[Oversoul]

The fuck >_>

[Oversoul]

I don't think Commuters are even Normal...

[Oversoul]

Fat is still at L-2 for those playing at home. That is a very odd role given the others in this game already.

[Oversoul]

By the way. I'm the tracker. Oversoul's claimed VT in our thread and been gambiting to save me from much trouble however I'm beginning not to trust him.

Have we decided at all whether there actually is an SK or not? There hasn't been two kills on any night.

Ya this tracked me last night. Less then pleased with Evil right now.

Oh well. My gambit fucked scum. I'm happy.

Claim: VT

[Oversoul]

wait so now os is confirmed liar

So we caught scum because you guessed right?

What do these posts even mean?

I'm not scum, redFF. I gambited in the Neighborhood because I knew that someone was going to be scum and then bot Hoppster and EPM claimed so I knew we had to remove any potential risks so I faked a guilty on Lew. He had to be scum anyway. I knew that Otolia was scum from his hammer + his claim proved that he couldn't possibly be the same alignment as EPM. Ironhead looked very bad and I knew between Fat and iron one of them had to be mafia. Pine outted himself.

I am mad that EPM tracked me last night because it was a waste. He did it to satisfy a god damn paranoia. Even is so fucking paranoid on this damn site.

Thor isn't scum because EPM is a confirmed town tracker.

[Oversoul]

I'm not in your head dude ._.

You said that Thor is confirmed scum and now you are voting NS? I know who is dieing tonight if we don't lynch the SK though.

[Oversoul]

please explain to me why sk/townie/scum neighborhood is unlikely.

oversoul please explain why you can't be sk.

You're so dumb.

[Oversoul]

please explain to me why sk/townie/scum neighborhood is unlikely.

oversoul please explain why you can't be sk.

You're so dumb.

that's rich coming from you bro

Because it is true? I would really like it if you and Nobody tried to spin an Oversoul wagon today. Would be a truly priceless case of the blind leading the blind.

Why can't I be the SK?:

1) I would not have been hamstringed by Hoppster's actions which most likely account for the missing kills
2) The SK is most definitely between a tracker and a watcher from different factions, Ninja. I was the first person to bring that up.
3) I would not have killed the roleblocker that was

guaranteed

to be lynched the next day. The

only

reason I can even fathom a Pine kill from SK that is actually logical is that Pine's roleblock directly implicated me as the SK. However, we did not know the SK even existed until Pine's death.
4) I would not gambit as an SK as that would be incredibly ballsy and needlessly endangers my own life.
5) I have a tracker confirming that I did not go anywhere. Not that it really matters seeing as the SK is most definitely a ninja.

I really want to see the Mafia QT when they realized I was gambiting and see them shit their pants.

So yes, redFF, you are dumb. EPM is dumb for wasting his track on me last night. Nobody is dumb for being paranoid. I can predictably map out the night kills from here on out now that EPM has outted himself.

I trust Fat because he actually thinks that his commuting seems townie and was eager to claim. That wouldn't be the case if he was the SK or the mafia.

Thor is confirmed town
EPM is now confirmed town
I am confirmed town
Mastin is basically confirmed town
Fatlikepig is probably town
Empking is probably town
redFF... grudgingly is probably town
Nobody Special? Has done nothing.

[Oversoul]

why hasn't os been nk'd yet.

This is the type of WIFOM inducing content I expect from scum.

and you are not confirmed town

I'm sorry if I am the reason why 3 out of the 4 mafia are essentially dead. What have you done this game again? Oh right.

Oh and to clarify number 3 in my list of reasons why I am not Sk should be "logically, the only reason the SK would kill Pine is that Pine's roleblock on night 3 directly implicated the SK".

[Oversoul]

For the record, when there are games with mafia and serial killers/anti-town third parties, the term scum usually implies

all

of those factions.

redFF, yes, I do not like your play. I've stated that already. Townies can do scummy things and that comment was one I would expect from scum. Have you played Mafia before?

[Oversoul]

redFF, you're tunneling the wrong fucking person. I do think that you are probably town, but you play has been so scummy. I am pointing those scummy things out so people can think about what I am saying.

[Oversoul]

meh town don't go around belittling people they think are town, plus you lied for far longer than necessary and only told the "truth" when the tracker caught you in the lie. You kept us wifoming around who the tracker was for days and your play since fakeclaiming has been pretty much just shitting all over anyone who doesn't agree with you followed by lynching townies.

VOTE: oversoul

You are seriously retarded. Not listening to anymore drivel that comes out of your mouth.

What lie has the fucking tracker caught me in? NONE BECAUSE HE FUCKING TRACKED ME AND SAW THAT I WENT NOWHERE. We collectively decided to try and WIFOM people to see if any eager scum/SK would try and claim it, but Thor and Empking started their whole "Tracker is scum business" which probably scared away the person.

You can let your vote rot on me, it is only a testament to your playing ability.

[Oversoul]

Oh and the "town don't go around belittling people" is a complete misnomer. I can play whichever way I desire. I have no time for stupid people or stupid actions. I will push and poke people I think are playing like crap to hopefully make them think LOGICALLY.

[Oversoul]

Ya. I feel like you are telling the truth. NS, you said that you think Empking is most likely the mafia and you stated that he could wait a day, why are you voting Fat?

[Oversoul]

meh town don't go around belittling people they think are town, plus you lied for far longer than necessary and only told the "truth" when the tracker caught you in the lie. You kept us wifoming around who the tracker was for days and your play since fakeclaiming has been pretty much just shitting all over anyone who doesn't agree with you followed by lynching townies.

VOTE: oversoul

You are seriously retarded. Not listening to anymore drivel that comes out of your mouth.

What lie has the fucking tracker caught me in? NONE BECAUSE HE FUCKING TRACKED ME AND SAW THAT I WENT NOWHERE. We collectively decided to try and WIFOM people to see if any eager scum/SK would try and claim it, but Thor and Empking started their whole "Tracker is scum business" which probably scared away the person.

You can let your vote rot on me, it is only a testament to your playing ability.

why would an eager scum/sk claim tracker if one was confirmed to be in the game and they would just be counterclaimed?

I was hoping they thought it would be a scum tracker and try to do a counterclaim gambit in order to gain townie points by outting the supposed scum tracker, but I guess not.

[Oversoul]

Empking is probably town

Actually, explain this one to me too - he's felt as useless as NS to me.

Other than today I agree with that sentiment. His reaction towards your claim and what not makes me feel he is town. It could very well be rolefishing to try and make the tracker claim to kill them tonight (which is probably what is going to happen), but for now, I see it as town motivation.

[Oversoul]

Ya, I usually doubt people who try to muck it up like that...

[Oversoul]

An excellent game, indeed. I'm sorry I wasn't around as much as I could have been -- I really should've known better than to try replacing in so late into such a huge game. I'm terrible at catching up in a hurry. (I really only replaced in because I felt sorry for the game -- it seemed to have died so many times. But I

really did

have the best of intentions in re: keeping up.)

If it isn't Fat this makes me feel very townie about NS.

[Oversoul]

Fucking saw that coming.

redFF
Empking
Mastin
Nobody Special
Thor
Oversoul

order of most likely to least likely SK.

VOTE: redFF

[Oversoul]

Can we let everyone check in before quick lynching?

[Oversoul]

Hey, Thor.
Oversoul.

How much do you trust me?

I have to leave for a couple hours, but I need an answer to this question before the day ends. It's quite important.

I still value you as a very town player, but there is just something in the back of my mind, like a constant, dull tapping noise.

The Pine kill

was

strange. I thought of one scenario where it wouldn't be strange, though. The fact that you and Pine hydra together. Pine would be able to decipher your play, and if you were the SK you would be exhibiting different play styles. Pine would surely have picked up on that. So my hypothesis is that Pine was not killed so much for being Mafia, but for being ... Pine.

In addition, your brute force lynch on Fatlikepig yesterday was very unbecoming of you. I have seen you do a similar thing in which you were *absolutely* sure that Ludi was scum in Sexy Sedilla. Perhaps that lynch was contrived and you simply wanted to remove another town power role from the game. I don't know.

And then again, when you said you *knew* who was going to be killed (it was quite obvious it was going to be EPM, the Xeras kill was most likely a kill in search of the tracker) and that you knew who was going to be the next lynch, the next kill, and so on and so forth. It looked very premeditated and quite frankly creepy that you would say something like that. Only people who can physically control those aspects are likely to say that in my opinion. Although, I am curious as to why you said it... I have one thought that makes you town for doing it.

I'll insert my grumbling at that fatlikeapig lynch here - if I'd been around that gak would not have gone down as easy. The heck guys?

I'm mildly surprised pacman was scum - though he was being useless so probably the egg is on my face (and Oversoul's if he's town) on that one.

@mastin - fair to midland though I think you always think you're more clever than you are and usually take you with a handful of sodium an consider it a wise move. Why, what's your magical obvious certainty today?

@Oversoul - I'm in multiple games with him currently and I think my mind is muddled - why is NS less likely SK than mastin now? I thought yesterday mastin was your sweet, sweet lover. Has NS been cleared by something I forgot, or did mastin do something gakky I missed?

EPM didn't flip scum... Are you sure you are playing the same game?

While I agree that Mastin does view highly of himself, it is often for good reason. I take it you attribute his play yesterday to that self view and not an ulterior motive?

I've explained why I am somewhat more suspicious of Mastin today compared to NS. Although realistically, both players can be switched around at will on that list.

honestly read the thread all ive been is transparent town.

Resorting to self meta like this is not the way to go. I do attribute tells like this to town though as it would be suicidal for scum to say that they have been townie all game. It is a reverse meta psychology that I use and so far it has caught me two scum across two games.

oversoul could you post all of epm's tracks?

Certainly.

Tracked Xeras Night 2, did not go anywhere
Tracked redFF Night 3, did not go anywhere
Tracked Mastin Night 4, did not go anywhere
Tracked Empking Night 5, did not go anywhere
Tracked Oversoul Night 6, did not go anywhere

I find it odd that you think I am the SK because of the neighborhood aspect, but trust me enough to post these results.

He didn't track anyone the first night because the hydra failed and the game was in cryostasis. Needless to say, I was pretty mad when he lied to me about tracking Empking or Fatlikepig on Night 6 so he could satisfy his damn paranoia.

What kind of sense does it make to include an SK in a neighborhood with a Jailkeeper, Tracker, and a Mafia Goon? None.

thor what do you think of a scum/sk/town neighborhood.

I still don't understand why you are going down this road when it is sufficiently clear that I cannot be the mother fucking SK. Shit like this is why you are so high on my SK likelyhood list.

Basically everyone voting you - reading between the lines.
Why, what did you think the case on you was? I must have missed it.

That is definitely not the reason *I* voted for redFF. Why do you think it is framing, unless you yourself thought of the framing in the first place?

Everyone so far is giving me god damn suspicions and it is frustrating as all hell.

[Oversoul]

When there are competing power roles of different factions that are both negated by a single modifier, I think that points towards Ninja. Plus, Ninja is actually a common choice for SK modification in Large Normals these days.

[Oversoul]

That's just bastard mod in itself. This is a normal game for god's sake.

[Oversoul]

Like I said. It's...
I have...no words to describe it.
It's like I know who the serial killer is...and have that image in my mind, but...
...That I can't accept it.

As if it's something which logically makes sense, but which I can't wrap my head around. Like something which I should be following, but...don't want to. That I know who it is, yet...have a doubt about it.

I wish I could describe it. But I...really can't. It's like I said. If redFF is lynched and flips town, I'm quite sure my doubt will be removed. It's just that...well...I can't really voice it.

Call it logic versus gut if you must. Logically, I have a clear picture, and have predicted exactly how things will play out. But...this...
...whatever it is...
...Makes me not want to follow it.

I know it doesn't make sense. But...it's the way things are. Sorry that I can't explain it better. It's...a concept I'm not sure how to communicate.

what in the actual fuck

Are you saying that logically redFF is the SK? Or that someone else is the SK? Mastin, at this point, any information is vital as the SK is just going to kill people with more and more information in order to hinder us.

How would lynching redFF ease your mind if he turns ups scum? Are you saying there are associative tells between two people? I am having a hard time following.

Quite frankly, this play being paranoid and asking people if they trust you looks like you are setting up for a gambit later in the game. I trust you Mastin, but you are undermining your own credibility with the other players.

I have scumtells for everyone on my list...

I've already listed yours, and I've already listed redFF's earlier in the thread.

One for Empking is his constant plea to vote Thor. A clever SK would know that calling someone who is obviously not scum, scum for having more information on an unoutted powerrole would surely force the unclaimed and unoutted power role to claim to prevent a lynch on obvious town.

This game... fucking HATE SKs.

[Oversoul]

One for Empking is his constant plea to vote Thor. A clever SK would know that calling someone who is obviously not scum, scum for having more information on an unoutted powerrole would surely force the unclaimed and unoutted power role to claim to prevent a lynch on obvious town.

He was obviously not scum from your POV because you were hiding the Tracker.

I know that. I never thought that Thor was scum, I thought your constant "Thor is scum because there obviously is not a tracker" was a gambit because you knew the tracker would not let a confirmed town be lynch simply because they (the tracker) hasn't claimed.

[Oversoul]

One for Empking is his constant plea to vote Thor. A clever SK would know that calling someone who is obviously not scum, scum for having more information on an unoutted powerrole would surely force the unclaimed and unoutted power role to claim to prevent a lynch on obvious town.

He was obviously not scum from your POV because you were hiding the Tracker.

I know that. I never thought that Thor was scum, I thought your constant "Thor is scum because there obviously is not a tracker" was a gambit because you knew the tracker would not let a confirmed town be lynch simply because they (the tracker) hasn't claimed.

Yes but you can't hold the fact that Thor "is obviously not scum," from your POV against me because I was not hiding the Tracker so obviously he was obviously scum to me.

Or that is what you want us to think so that it justifies your rolefishing and scum calling accusations. WIFOM surrounds that entire situation.

[Oversoul]

mastin, from what I know about you, you don't have this much trouble pointing fingers.

I know.

But I've explained it as best as I can.

I can't say it.
Normally, I'd have confidence. And logically, I should be following what I know the evidence is telling me. No hesitation.

...But for

this

?
...I can't do that. It's like I said. It's sort-of Sexy Sedilla, only...inverted. Instead of being mortified at being wrong about a scumread (Ludi), I'm horrified at the possibility of being right about this SK-read.

I can't say it any better than that. I really can't; this is a new feeling for me. I've never had it before, and quite frankly, I never want to have it again.

It's almost like you're trying to draw out the SK and make them slip (which, while a valid exercise, just isn't your style).

Close but not quite. Nothing the SK could say would make them any more or less suspect in my mind. It's more like what the SK will DO.

It's...frustrating. To no end. Not being able to express it. To have something which is...not something I am familiar with, not something I am comfortable with, but which I have nonetheless. I've never been here before. And...well, it sucks.

The fuck? Just tell us who you think the SK is and we will lynch him.

[Oversoul]

Tell us the person so we can lynch in redFF > Mastin's read order. I don't see the big deal of withholding it especially as you might die tonight and then WE will be lost.

[Oversoul]

Mastin...

for fuck sake man. UNVOTE: I need time to think about this and its implications. How long have you been thinking about this? I need actual game days or real life days in order to fully consider your accusation.

[Oversoul]

ebwop: and you are going to be V/LA for awhile... ugh. I'll wait for my answer though.

[Oversoul]

NO. No one is voting me until I have a fucking chance to explain me. Mastin and redFF FUCKING UNVOTE NOW. I have my right to fucking give my own case and prove that I cannot be the SK. I am not going to be quick hammered.

[Oversoul]

you derps have run me up to L-1 and I don't want a quick hammer before I can respond in full to Mastin.

I can't respond now, but I will be able to later today around 4-6est.

[Oversoul]

Mastin...

for fuck sake man. UNVOTE: I need time to think about this and its implications. How long have you been thinking about this? I need actual game days or real life days in order to fully consider your accusation.

Really?

Also, no such thing as a town slip. No such thing.

What? I don't understand this post.

[Oversoul]

Skimming this case is actually annoying. Mastin, you're pulling a Ludi on me.

I have one last ace in the hole that you can take whichever way. The neighborhood was decided randomly. I know this contradicts my "I knew that Lew was scum just because of the neighborhood" but I was willing to take that chance (that Lew was scum) especially when both the Tracker and the Jailkeeper claimed for no reason.

You still haven't explained how when I would fall victim to a blocked kill on Night 1 other than Mafia RB which is something we can't rely on.

Mastin, you are using complete setup speculation and the like to confirm that I am an SK. Do you understand how weak that is?

Does anyone else find Mastin's case completely irrational? Or is it just me because now I am in the hotseat? For the second time.

[Oversoul]

Dude, just explain what you mean with both parts. I am tired of having to read between the lines and deduce your thoughts.

Or put bluntly: my original prediction would be accurate for everyone except for Oversoul, so if Evil died, it would be further evidence against Oversoul.

This quote is very important. If I do die and when I flip VT, I want everyone to take very close attention to this quote.

mastin, when I flip town if you do actually get this derp town to follow your speculative case, what will you do then? And answer specifically with who you would lynch given the more confirmed players are nightkilled (Thor and NS).

I have a feeling that this will turn into a Mastin vs Oversoul which is highly annoying but I am willing to go toe to toe with him because this is actually ridiculous.

[Oversoul]

why hasn't os been nk'd yet.

This is the type of WIFOM inducing content I expect from scum.

and you are not confirmed town

I'm sorry if I am the reason why 3 out of the 4 mafia are essentially dead. What have you done this game again? Oh right.

Oh and to clarify number 3 in my list of reasons why I am not Sk should be "logically, the only reason the SK would kill Pine is that Pine's roleblock on night 3 directly implicated the SK".

So you start to think about me as scum conveniently after I post this? This is before your alleged timeframe meaning that you would have seen this and taken it into account.


I will let this hold, Mastin.

Not entirely!

There's also Night-Kill Analysis!

(Which doesn't really help, but yeah, basically. Multiple pieces of the setup point to it being Oversoul.)

No, every piece of your speculative evidence that you twist points to me as the SK, Mastin. There is a clear difference.

I have a very hard time believing that the strongest two Power Roles in the game were randomly assigned to the neighborhood, along with one scum randomly popping in. It requires a severe stretch of my suspencion of disbelief, so to speak. Why not two VTs? Why not a weaker PR, like Thor or BV? Tracker is the strongest investigation role we have. Jailkeeper is the strongest protection role we have and could potentially have been a super-strong investigation role as well.

Like I said. It just doesn't make sense for that to be random. It looks deliberate, orchestrated and manufactured.

Mastin, I will

break

you

. Of course you have a very hard time believing that because your entire case hinges on the fact that this neighborhood was decided nonrandomly for balance purposes. There was a reason why EPM, Hoppster, and I withheld so much information from you all. It is for these very cases (crap) that we withheld certain aspects of the neighborhood in order to see how the people would react. I don't have EPM or Hoppster to support me on any of this obviously, but the Neighborhood was specifically chosen at random. The moderator made a keen note of it in our role PMs. There is a reason why Hoppster didn't flip Jailkeeper Neighbor. Because that is not the primary role. It was not something that he mechanically added into the game. That basis alone should put any doubt of randomly chosen neighborhood out of your mind. Non random, specifically chosen, would flip as such.

At this point, I don't know if this is town Mastin *imploding* on himself or if he is trying to emulate the Sexy Sedilla scenario (he was "sure" that Ludi was scum, got him lynched in a 1v1 scenario, Ludi flipped town, Mastin went on a sabbatical and self pity spree, and we won).

I am fine with lynching redFF or Empking today. Hell mastin, you can lynch redFF have, all of your "proof" in the world and I will still fight for your lynch or Empking's lynch tomorrow. Realistically, given redFF's play today. I want to modify the lynch order to Empking > Mastin > redFF > NS > Thor > Oversoul, but you will probably say "he is hiding redFF because he knows he is town and thus OS is scum!! lynch!!". I just

know

it. And don't give me that bullshit of "preemptive arguments are scummy" because that is the biggest load of horseshit ever.

Oh let me talk about that lynch order that I have been trying to post nearly every couple of days for the past few game days. I purposely put the lynch order in that specific order so that the SK would

hopefully

work from the most confirmed side and the town would work from the most likely SK side ending with a Lylo of the middle three people. When the SK decided to not go in that order and instead kill Xeras, I knew that the SK was PR hunting for the tracker which is why I was so pissed that EPM claimed yesterday because it meant certain death for him.

The fact that Mastin is attributing all of these reasons that

he

thinks are true for the Nightkills is amusing and also unsettling. I started to get suspicious of Mastin when he started to proclaim "I know who is going to be the lynch, kill, lynch, kill blah blah" because only people with reasons to say that (like direct influence) say that. Additionally, his completely crap push on Fatlikepig sent major bells off in my mind. Fat had a perfectly reasonable suggestion to prove his innocence and you all just quick hammered him like it was nothing. The SK

needed

that lynch very badly. That lynch alone is life or death for the SK. If we did not lynch Fat, we would have potentially lynched the SK, FORCED the SK to either kill the Commuter or hunt for the Tracker for confirmedness, or FORCED the SK to kill Fat because of his commuting ability anyway. That wagon has the SK on it. I am very positive about it.

Sure, there are two scum RBs which are unaccounted for. But without knowing who they're on, I can only work from what data I DO have. And the data I DO have says that you are the most likely.

No the data does not point to me as the SK because all of your evidence and data is circumstancial and you playing as if it is the truth and cannot be wrong.

Mastin's reply to my question about what he would do *after* my death is basically the response that I would see typical of an SK. He went for the scummier of the two more likely candidates and he would likely go on with his wallow posting phase similar to Sexy Sedilla and the tired posting he did in this game.

I am sorry, Oversoul, but you're wrong about you being Ludi. You're the anti-Ludi. Every fiber in me wants to believe you're town. Every single bit of me wants me to have been wrong in the case. Every part of me WANTS you to be town.

Because every part of me IS town. Every part of you WANTS me dead because my evidence is actually not hinged on circumstance like your "evidence".

I am at this point fine with lynching either Mastin or Empking. I truly am. I don't care what you think "Oh total OMGUS" or whatever the fuck you want to call it. If someone actually looked at the concreteness and truth behind Mastin's case you will see that there is no definite truth.

I have proved through VERIFIED flips the very basis of Mastin's nightkill analysis (the fact that people were suspicous of the neighborhood) is bogus because the neighborhood was randomly chosen and there isn't any role balancing from the moderator himself because NEIGHBORS weren't technical "roles" this game.

Of course. Then I realized after doing my work that if Oversoul was the Serial Killer, Thor would NOT be the NK. Evil was beginning to suspect Oversoul, and with Evil dead, Oversoul would have full uncounterclaimed control of claiming what has transpired in the neighborhood QT

The reason, ladies and gentleman, I ask you all to hold this dear to your mind is that this is the "foresight" that scared me earlier with Mastin. He knew that this WOULD help a case against me. He would be furthering an SK mindset by killing a very powerful town power role and he would also be subtly pushing a second kill through MY mislynch. This shows that Mastin acknowledged the repercussions of an EPM kill. The difference? He is applying it to me. If anything, this is Mastin FRAMING me for something I didn't do. Of course I can't prove that until I flip, but I, unlike Mastin, will try and PROVE it to you.

With Evil dead the SK no longer has to worry about a tracker result. Also, with Evil dead someone like Mastin could push this bogus crap saying that I was "tying up loose ends" or silencing the dissension among the crowd when in reality, Xeras and EPM were kills for the main reason of Tracker hunting.

This shows that Mastin has thought long and hard about this game and likely has a response to anything that I am about to post. It shows premeditation. While Mastin regularly does this as town, he messed with the wrong dude.

We know the David JK is a fact, and we know the N3 JK was actually Oversoul. There's nothing suggesting the N2 Empking jail is false, so I've been assuming it's true.

You would know that it is true based on the fact that you didn't kill him. Stop you guise and feigning of not having insider knowledge when you clearly do or you wouldn't have made such an elaborate case against me.

Mastin... here is my little pet theory that I am sure will just fancy the paranoia and skeptical processes of your mind. DavidX was clearly the SK nightkill option the first night. Why? He suspected Empking and was generally acting weird (refusal to answer questions and the like). Look at who the second SK/SK optional kill was... Empking. I can think of the main reason for those two coincidences in that Empking is the SK, but I can also come up with a pet theory as well. Just like with how you are painting the EPM and Xeras kill as kills to hush the people who are getting suspicious, a kill on DX would definitely seem like a kill to hush the people getting suspicious. A kill on Empking would probably be because many people had reads on him and the SK thought he was scum, thus furthering the suspicion aspect.

Mastin, I have showed you the pet theory for the "kill the people who might know too much" with Empking and David. Do you think that Empking would be more likely scum at this point? The "evidence points to him".

-For Empking to be the SK, he'd need to have targeted David or nobody N1. He'd need to have targeted Oversoul N3 and been a ninja.

You acknowledge the likelyhood of Ninja status, but you disregard it for other things. Why would I not kill Hoppster the first night, seeing how potentially dangerous to the SK wincon?

The nightkills are now going to be of Thor and NS leaving the now "suspicious because of Mastin's 'case'" Oversoul with the other suspicious players like redFF and Empking for lynch and Mastin if we No Lynch. We have two lynchs before we lose. I want everyone as of this moment to name their number 1 and number 2 choice. I don't care if it is me. I don't care if it isn't me. I want those choices.

Number 1? Empking
Number 2? Mastin

redFF's reaction to the immediate votes is "I don't give a fuck you guys are stupid for lynching me" and despite my pleadings to get him lynched, I guess he is going to stay and is appearing more town.

redFF, you are as nuts as Mastin.

I also love the fact that for Mastin, I go from being 100% scum to 100% town to 100% SK and for Empking it is Town > Mafia > SK as the game changed stages. He has been adjusting his hardheld convictions They are hard held given his wording like...

Trust me. Oversouls's one of my top two scum-reads, from what I've read.
He's not a mislynch.

Not this game.

and contradictions like...

Mastin; Why didn't you notice that I didn't answer one of your questions?

I thought about it when I was away. I didn't notice it at the time because it slipped through the cracks, but later thought, "wait a sec. I think Empking's missing one of them..."

Updated reads as of page 2:

TOWN: Empking
Johog
Vifam
Xeras
Kcdaspot
redFF

SCUM: David
Fool Hardy
Secret Project
Oversoul
Estyn
(Note to self--check how many players are actually in the game. Five scum tends to require at least 20 players.)

Estyn and Oversoul have strengthened my scum-reads.

Since they take me a while to read, I'll get back to you on Secret+Kcdaspot's posts. However--
I noticed that Secret only answered up to 22. There are 24.

Secret: Why did you cut the last two out?

Additionally.

Secret:

What makes my questions to you subjective?

I'll get back to Foolish Fool. But,

Foolish Fool:

Did you notice my 25A/25B?

Fool Hardy:

Same to you.

Honestly, my vision is impaired right now. Seeing lots of black dots which make it hard to read. Will get back with updated reads. This is through four, skipping where I mention I've skipped.

Here, kinda.

Estyn was firmly null, though; I remember that much. Along with redFF. Don't remember who else I had as null.


I know, I know. I suck, I'm in the dark as to the game state, what claims there are, I've done zero visible scumhunting, but I AM trying. It sucks. If I read the thread, my reads will bias my analysis. If I take too long to do my analysis, then I won't be able to read the thread and determine how accurate it is. Hence, I need to figure things out, quickly.

(calling Estyn scum in his reads, yet stating he was firmly null upon a reread of his notes?)

and this despite wanting a major lynch on Fatlikepig

Let's review.

1. Empking <--Prob-town. His overall feeling is town. Hard to explain. Coupled with his interactions with scum looking favorable, I sincrely doubt he is scum.
2. Xeras <--Prob-town. Blocks mean he couldn't submit the kill. Interactions in various places with scum strongly suggest he is town.
3. Foolish Fool (Haylen + JordanA24) <--Probably not town. At first, it was process of elimination, but Jordan's posts came across as trying to coach, to be the middle ground in multiple townVtown fights, while letting them rip themselves to shreds. Kinda hard to explain, so I'll probably have to go into detail about this.
5. Nobody Special Vifam <--Prob-town. Vifam's Johhog interactions read as townVtown. Additionally, Vifam's interactions with scum players look favorable.
6. Thor665 Lady Lambadelta BomberMan <--Confirmed town, as far as I'm concerned.
7. projectmatt Fool_Hardy <--Scum. Fool_Hardy tripped my scumdar from his first post. Project Matt continued the trend. I've touched the surface of why he's scum with my in-thread posting, but it's just the tip of the iceberg on this guy.
8. David Xanatos <--Prob-town. David's interactions here are a dead-ringer for Neruzian Era Big. I'm sure there are other games as well. Additionally, he kinda comes across as potential mislynch material for the scum.
9. Oversoul <--Confirmed town.
10. Ironhead MintKitten <--Prob-scum. His logic seems extremely motivated by a scum perspective on the game, as well as his suspicious interactions thusfar in the game.
11. TOGTFO LordChronos <--Pretty much confirmed town, as far as I'm concerned.
12. fatlikepig LTP Mafia <--Prob-town. His interactions with scum paint a STRONG picture of him being town.
13. evilpacman18 <--Confirmed town.
14. redFF <--Confirmed town.


Tl;dr: Ironhead, Project Matt, or Foolish Fool should be lynched today.

Mastin's iso is relatively poor only voting me, EPM, and Ironhead each when they were the biggest wagons of the time. He was convienently missing for the large part of the first few days and now is very active, but he used his meta to account for that. However, his meta only says that he

plays

better as a replacement. Not that he lurks and is inactive.

Because I don't think logically, your mask of logic is absolutely seethrough to me. It helps that I was in a similar situation to you--this is your first scumgame, no? Breaking a solid streak of town, correct? Replacing into a situation which has become helpless? Yeah, I just had that in Flash Mafia 3, breaking my solid streak of town (in particular, VT) PMs. Because I've been through it, I know how people in said situation feel.

Additionally, you answered my questions. In much the way I was anticipating. What you couldn't have known (nor could I have known, either, until recently) is that by answering the questions about how you'd play as scum/town and what your plan was, you gave me your thought process and a view into your intentions. So, I can read your mind.

As for the third, that's because I've discovered now that I play better as a replacement than I do as an original player. "...But you're an original player in this game..." Technically, yes. I have been a player since the beginning. In practice, no. I was last on something like page five, active lurking just enough to avoid being replaced in this game. I was a dead slot, someone giving absolutely nothing. Like a newbie about to be replaced by a vet.

Effectively, I replaced myself. Reading 60 pages from scratch, with only glimpses into the future game. It effectively made me a replacement in this game. And as everyone knows, replacements tend to play better than who they replace, since they have a new, fresh, interesting perspective on the game and can work with material already established and come in with no personal biases already formed.

Because I looked at things in a way you couldn't have anticipated, I managed to see what you hadn't thought of, and from this all, I have nailed you, Ironhead.

(Though I must thank you. The realization that I play better as a replacement is new to me, as of this moment. That means I'll probably be playing more as a replacement in the future, to test this "mastin can nail the scum instantly upon replacing" theory I have.)



I'll point out how wrong Ironhead's defense is when I get around to making the case against all three. Though I really shouldn't need to; Ironhead's obvious scum at this point.

Mastin's convictions have for the most part, been completely wrong this game.

Come to think of it,

I think Oversoul is town. Not just because he lynched the mafia but just because of his explanations as to why he investigated so and so.

I think that Ironhead's latest posts sound very forced in tone, specifically this quote. I'm not dedicated to a vote on him quite yet, though.

Before I clicked "submit" on that last post, it occurred to me that it may be interpreted it as a scummy approach to faux scumhunting. I submitted it anyway, because at this point any activity is pro-town and any inactivity is inherently anti-town.

Mastin bothers me, if he doesn't give the analysis he promises I want him lynched, but I honestly like to hold people on their promises, so I'm waiting for some kind of content.

Empking and Oversoul are town. Not because they lynched mafia but because Oversoul's explanation of why he did made me lean so.

David also towntold earlier as well.

Xeras is probably scum just because of gut. I need to read more of this thread because I'm disconnected.

This BLEEDS of inside information.

I can do a full ISO of Mastin, like I did in Sexy Sedilla. But I doubt anyone wants to go back there. Regardless, I think that Empking/Mastin/redFF are the most likely people to be the SK.

I have already stated my suspicion on of Mastin and I find it very convienent again that his case, that he says he began constructing on 11 - 4 - 11 was also the day I expressed my suspicions of him when he started "tired" posting as seen here

Ya, I usually doubt people who try to muck it up like that...

and I had already expressed interest that the Pine kill was because either a) the RB would claim who he roleblocked on night 1 or b) Pine has inside knowledge on Mastin's style of play.

That Pine kill did not look like it was the original intention because barring extreme circumstances like the ones above, letting Pine live is very beneficial... Plus, Mastin also expressed that he knew FF was the roleblocker before I outted it...

[Oversoul]

I'll start the wagon

VOTE: Empking

[Oversoul]

Yup. Empking is scum.

Empking, I already explained why not redFF. And I swear after all I have done for this fucking town.

Why if I was SK would I all but give you guys the go ahead to lynch me.

If you stupid fucks would even read what I have to say instead of being pig headed maybe I would have respinded differently.

[Oversoul]

Empking, I already explained why not redFF. And I swear after all I have done for this fucking town.

Where?

...Something which doesn't seem like a Serial Killer could even make.

Would you mind confirming for me that you know that's nonsense, Mastin.

Mastin: OS' reaction to you was to react as if there was new info he had to consider. If he was town he'd know your case was wrong, he wouldn't need to give it much thought. He certainly wouldn't unvote in response.

Yes I would actually need to unvote. Mastin really made me suspicious and at that time I hadn't made up my mind whether or not Mastin was being a derp or if he was legitimately trying to force a lynch through based on my revelations of the Pine kill and the mysterious Night 3 no SK kill leading right to the SK.

Mastin, subjectively, it doesn't matter. The kill on Pine only makes sense for fear that Pine would claim actions (night 3) and thus confirm that someone was the SK (it would become apparent later in the game when no roleblocking roles were left).

[Oversoul]

Somebody lynch him, please. His reaction is a fail.

[Oversoul]

...

fuck this game.

[Oversoul]

I killed you in Brightest Day.

Mastin, where did your analysis of the RVS questions go? I remember you promising and promising and promising to do them and then all of the sudden.... you didn't do them despite your constant proddings and pokings to get people to answer them.

Why were Secret and I such obvious scum reads of yours in the beginning of the day and why haven't you fleshed out that idea other than the suspicion you threw on me yesterday despite the situation of this game now?

Your first 50 posts of this game could be classified as IIoA. Do you agree with that sentiment?

@all

What do you think about redFF falling for my trap when I said that the SK was too stupid to shoot Pine and he took offence to it?

I think we are all asking the same question (well maybe except for redFF). Why haven't we died? NS being a townread... really only comes from that one post of his the other day.

[Oversoul]

It says in our role PM that the neighborhood was completely random as in random.org. That is why we got two power roles in there.

I took a chance in fakeclaiming gunsmith in the Neighborhood to try and draw the nightkill should any of the active players been mafia. Then when none of us died night 1 I fakeclaimed the guilty to get rid of the only outlier in the group.

[Oversoul]

.This...doesn't seem to match what Oversoul just said, though. :/

What? I just said that everyone was chosen randomly.

[Oversoul]

Neighborhood. When I learned you were a neighborhood, with one scum in it, I instantly clicked to the thought "all others are confirmed town". As anyone else would have. When I learned there was a SK, though, one of my early thoughts was SK-in-neighborhood. I thought you were the gunsmith, so if you recall, I attacked Secret/Evil who I thought was the SK. And when that changed to him being the tracker, and you being the VT, suddenly, your positions were switched in my mind. I don't remember when this was, exactly, nor the details around it, but you should get the idea.

I must not be remembering the same things... I don't think it quite worked out this way...

hold on. let me iso you.

I think you are talking about a completely different situation, Mastin.

I was talking about this vote and the posts naming before that named me and Evil as scum

Oh, forgot to do this.

Vote: Secret Project

.

Should always get a vote out.

[Oversoul]

Chosen randomly throughout all of the players in the game is as best I can paraphrase it.

[Oversoul]

I have the qt paraphrase written up, but I am going to ask ODM if I can post it first. Would really hate for this game to end in modkill on my own part.

[Oversoul]

They mainly question my legitimacy about claiming to them and self voting, but after that the activity dies. There is pregame talk, which is what I am asking ODM about.

[Oversoul]

Can SK's no kill?

[Oversoul]

Let's hope they are compulsive. And I don't really think that the SK play has been good this game. They failed to kill someone for the first three nights and only after the town did all of the work for them did they even become a problem. More like luck than skill in my opinion.

[Oversoul]

Why are you reading so much? You are a glutton for punishment Mastin. Really all I care about are games where you were third party, or where someone else in this game was third party (including me).

[Oversoul]

Well after just losing MK Mafia in LyLo because of Ninja shenanigans I am fired up for this one.

[Oversoul]

ODM replied

Ironically we asked a bunch of questions like do we have daytalk/night talk, are we confirmed to each other and CMAR flipped a shit on us and told us to read the PM again.

Someone asked if we don't get a massclaim in the thread and all of us are alive, we should mass claim in the neighborhood. No one objected to that.

Someone else wanted to out all of us as neighbors, but someone and I said it defeats the purpose of a neighborhood. We ask were Lew is, the mod doesn't know. We give reads on each other someone else thinks I am scum. Someone agrees with someone else.

They call me stupid for claiming to them Day 1. They call me stupid for voting myself. Then the neighborhood dies in activity.

The first part was the pregame stuff.

[Oversoul]

redFF I must have mentioned you as scum for the past 4 days. Obviously I'm not going to vote you because 1) Mastin has metric ton of reading to do, and 2) we are going to no lynch today regardless.

[Oversoul]

You're weird.

Mastin have you begun your plan yet?

[Oversoul]

I hope those holiday storms don't interrupt the festivities.

Anyway, why has everyone gone mute other than Mastin? :\

[Oversoul]

Mastin, between this game and [redacted] I don't know how you do it given the time constraints and the amount of work you put into Mafia. You are a grade A player.

[Oversoul]

... rereading this game is such a chore. I've looked over everyone's iso twice now and so far the results have been fruitless.

Hard to believe Mastin made that case against me 5 pages ago.

Rereading the end of redFF's iso boils me.

Reading Vifam's play it doesn't look like SK material especially with the Johhog not commenting crap that would have gotten him lynched had I not intervened with fake guilties.

[Oversoul]

lul. Rereading the first 20 pages. Like a different game entirely. I did get a few chuckles out of KCD's posts.

[Oversoul]

... I'll let the activity go because of Thanksgiving.

[Oversoul]

Oversoul: Do you think mastin is to be congratulated on his time spent on this site? Do you think that has any bearing on his alignment for this game? Do you feel his activity in this game has dropped recently? If so, what's your speculation for the reason behind that?

For the time spent on the site, no. For the effort he puts into his games, yes. Although he could do with a little less mafia and a little more free time. Then again, we all could.

Yes, his activity has dropped, which is out of character for him, but for this game, that is actually

in

character. However, this game is out of character compared to his other games

especially

the recently started [redacted]. I mean, he could be the SK. Or real life committments. Same for everyone with regards to the apathy.

Nobody, there is no reason to hasten the speed we go into No Lynch, since by default, we go into no lynch..

[Oversoul]

Memento!