Mini 301: Berry Kingdom Mafia II -- (Game Over!!)


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Post Post #225 (ISO) » Sun May 14, 2006 5:58 pm

Post by Yosarian2 »

TheCesspit wrote:
Y2 wrote: If you want to try to read something into the fact the me and TheCesspit were both voting CA for 6 hours and nothing happened, feel free, but personally, what I'm mostly interested in is the period that you and Lloyd were both voting for CA. From post 92 to post 103, there were always at least 2 votes on CA, which, if there are 3 mafia and if both people on the wagon were town, would be enough for the mafia to pull off a speedlynch.

Now, I would expect that if two townies were sitting on someone who was not in the mafia (the mafia would probably neither know nor care if the person was a townie or a SK), in a situation where one mislynch probably leads to a mafia win, the mafia would want to jump on the wagon quickly; 2 townie+3 scum=a lynch.
You make one vital assumption in this, which worries me. You analysis doesn't take into account that CA could -still- be Mafia. If so, then twin-Townie was on the vote, so no mafia-speed-lynch would occur as no Mafia would lynch their scumbuddy.
Well, the reason I first came to the conclusion that CA was probably the SK was based on his day 1 action. To recap:
Commodore Amazing wrote:
Yosarian2 wrote:Just to be clear, I do want ciprian to at least have a chance to defend himself and/or claim before he gets lynched. That should probably go without saying, especally when this whole bandwagon is mostly based on a gut feeling, but I figured I'd better say it anyway.
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Doctor, you get one guess as to why I lynched ciprian before he claimed.

vote: ciprian
After ciprian turned out to be town it was pretty clear to everyone that CA was a lying bad guy, even before he came out and lied about my night action the next day. But if CA was mafia, he would have already known ciprian would turn out to be a good guy, and he should have already known that the action would make him look bad. So why would a mafia do that when ciprian was clearly going to get lynched anyway?

I was thinking about this for a while, and the only logical possibility I could come up with, assuming CA was acting in a rational manner, was that CA must have expected that ciprian WOULD turn out to be scum, therefore "proving" his cop claim, and at the same time keeping the doctor on him for the rest of the game. The play would only makes sense if CA was the Serial Killer, or some similar kind of bad guy who didn't actually know beforehand who was scum and who wasn't. If CA was the SK, then the gamit makes perfect sense; SK's have a fairly low chance of winning, but if could set it up where you might be able make yourself both almost lynchproof (as a claimed cop who's given the town scum will rarely get lynched) and get doc protection for the rest of the game to protect yourself from mafia nightkills, you'd have a much better chance of winning. It's the only theory I could come up with to explain his actions.
TheCesspit wrote:Which leaves us Ziliu and Cherry again, and I'm reticent about hanging people on that sort of sketchy ground.
Honestly, I do agree that my whole line of logic here is rather sketchy and based on more assumptions then I'd like, which is why I didn't really persue it right away. We were kind of getting stuck, though, so I figured I might as well share my speculations and see if it led anywhere. If anyone has a better suggestion of where to look for scum, I'm all ears.

In any case, the mod said we might have replacements soon, and that might help.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #226 (ISO) » Sun May 14, 2006 8:20 pm

Post by ziliu »

unvote
. I'm starting to believe it's too risky to lynch Bacde now, and am leaning towards Cherry, based on lack of commitment in his posts.

I have to admit I do not understand the reasoning against me and Cherry after reading, maybe I'm just slow, but if somebody could clarify, that would be sweet.

Other than that, I think it's a too large assumption to make to say CA is SK.
Mafia is not about who is right, mafia is about who is left.
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Post Post #227 (ISO) » Mon May 15, 2006 7:24 pm

Post by TheCesspit »

Non-content post... Nudge

(This game had disappeared onto the second page).
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Post Post #228 (ISO) » Tue May 16, 2006 2:57 am

Post by Cherry »

ziliu wrote:
unvote
. I'm starting to believe it's too risky to lynch Bacde now, and am leaning towards Cherry, based on lack of commitment in his posts.

I have to admit I do not understand the reasoning against me and Cherry after reading, maybe I'm just slow, but if somebody could clarify, that would be sweet.
im confused...u say ur leaning twords me because of my lack of posting and then u say u dont understand the reasoning against us.
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Post Post #229 (ISO) » Tue May 16, 2006 3:41 am

Post by ziliu »

Clarification, I'm leaning towards you for non-committal posting, and only for non-committal posting. Some people seem to suspect you and me because we didn't vote for CA, which I don't get.
Mafia is not about who is right, mafia is about who is left.
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Post Post #230 (ISO) » Tue May 16, 2006 4:45 am

Post by TheCesspit »

ziliu wrote:Clarification, I'm leaning towards you for non-committal posting, and only for non-committal posting. Some people seem to suspect you and me because we didn't vote for CA, which I don't get.
The thinking goes like:
If CA isn't scum, why wasn't he lynched by the scum to win the game? Because either the scum were on the 2 vote wagon, or they weren't available.

Y2 is far more eloquent than me and possibly can explain it better (I thought he had done quite well already, but restating it is important, I think). I only don't like his thought process where it points towards me as scum, which I (WIFOM alert!) know I am not.

The people who didn't post at that critical time were Cherry and Ziliu. So it's possible that Cherry and Ziliu were scum who didn't get a chance to vote on the claimed SK and win themselves the game.

That's it really. It's not enough in and off itself, but it's an interesting factet to note. There's 100 good reasons why you might not have voted and posted in that 2 day period, both scummy and not scummy.

I am also leaning towards Cherry. She/He's showing all the signs of lurkerscum - questioning others to explain, not making any stance, deflection etc.
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Post Post #231 (ISO) » Tue May 16, 2006 4:53 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

ziliu wrote: Other than that, I think it's a too large assumption to make to say CA is SK.
Can you think of any other reason why he might have made that semi-cop claim post at the end of day 1?
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #232 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2006 2:41 am

Post by Cherry »

TheCesspit wrote:I am also leaning towards Cherry. She/He's showing all the signs of lurkerscum - questioning others to explain, not making any stance, deflection etc.
...im a he...

ill make a stance when i suspect someone with evidence that i have through questioning their motives...rather than jumping on someone for reasons that may or may not hold water.
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Post Post #233 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2006 4:41 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

Cherry wrote:
TheCesspit wrote:I am also leaning towards Cherry. She/He's showing all the signs of lurkerscum - questioning others to explain, not making any stance, deflection etc.
...im a he...

ill make a stance when i suspect someone with evidence that i have through questioning their motives...rather than jumping on someone for reasons that may or may not hold water.
Well, I would like you to see you do so soon, then. If you absolutly HAD to vote for someone right now, who would it be?

We do NOT want this to go to a deadline, not when half of a lynch is 3 votes and there are probably 3 scum in the game.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #234 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2006 3:32 pm

Post by Blackberry »

Kanika Village Vote Count
[/color]

Commodore Amazing
:: (1) :: (Lloyd)

Not Voting: Ameliaslay, Cherry, Yosarian2, Commodore Amazing, TheCessPit, Bacde, ziliu


Five Votes to Lynch.


Prodding: Ameliaslay, Bacde

Replacing: Commodore Amazing


Replacements aren't easy to find *scratches head*.
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Post Post #235 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2006 4:37 pm

Post by Ameliaslay »

Yos2 wrote:Can you think of any other reason why he might have made that semi-cop claim post at the end of day 1?
I didn't really understand why he did something that blatant and unbackable-- why would an SK want to come out?
When I hear any man talk of an unalterable law, the only effect it produces upon me is to convince me that he is an unalterable fool.
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Post Post #236 (ISO) » Wed May 17, 2006 6:57 pm

Post by Bacde »

Posting, don't replace me, currently swamped with homework, I'll give two cents later.
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Post Post #237 (ISO) » Thu May 18, 2006 1:14 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

Ameliaslay wrote:
Yos2 wrote:Can you think of any other reason why he might have made that semi-cop claim post at the end of day 1?
I didn't really understand why he did something that blatant and unbackable-- why would an SK want to come out?
My theory is that he's the SK, and that he expected ciperon would turn out to be mafia. The SK doesn't know who the mafia is, and if he had been right, and given a cop claim while nailing a mafia, he would be in a very good position today.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #238 (ISO) » Thu May 18, 2006 6:16 am

Post by Blackberry »

Turbovolver is replacing Commodore Amazing.
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Post Post #239 (ISO) » Thu May 18, 2006 8:47 am

Post by Turbovolver »

Hello, everyone.
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Post Post #240 (ISO) » Thu May 18, 2006 4:03 pm

Post by Ameliaslay »

Hi, Turbovolver... any analysis?
When I hear any man talk of an unalterable law, the only effect it produces upon me is to convince me that he is an unalterable fool.
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Post Post #241 (ISO) » Thu May 18, 2006 4:10 pm

Post by Turbovolver »

I'm at uni at the moment and should be working. But later tonight if I go home I will post something more useful.
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Post Post #242 (ISO) » Thu May 18, 2006 9:24 pm

Post by TheCesspit »

Hi there Turbovolver. I await your comments.
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Post Post #243 (ISO) » Thu May 18, 2006 11:30 pm

Post by Turbovolver »

CA said he would lynch whoever the town wishes, and I don't see any reason to deviate from that plan.

He said he was suspicious of Ameliaslay and Bacde.
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Ameliaslay:


I looked back at Ameliaslay and she has definitely been rather non-committal. I think she's pretty suss too. When pressured she came up with a case against Lloyd - a good one in fact - but I cant ignore the fact that it was "when pressured". I do lean towards agreeing with her position on the ziliu/Bacde thing, which I suppose is a slight point in her favour.
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Bacde:


Bacde's big change of heart from #66 to #68 is dodgy, especially considering it involves joining a bandwagon. Another thing that stands out is his push to just lynch the SK, even though that was likely a town loss. He said he didn't realise but who can tell? He says he feels like he's the only one hunting scum, which I don't like because I consider putting down the town to be a scum tell.

Ziliu launched a bit of an attack on Bacde in #176, one I didn't think was very strong. But Bacde's reaction I find more telling. Things like:
Bacde wrote:Have you really read my posts? The way you are talking suggests you haven't, else you would have read that I voted for Lloyd BECAUSE he joked, not because I thought he was serious.
I went back and looked at this. Bacde 3rd votes him for "proving" jokes. What exactly do the scum get out of this that town don't? Seems like dodgy reasoning to me.
Bacde wrote:You get a cookie if you can show me where I accused Yosarian of anything besides doing something anti-progress. Honestly, where is it? I still stand by the idea that if you are trying to work with everyone, you can't exclude yourself from the pool. If you are only posting your notes for your own sake, then what is the point of even posting them?
This is one big game of semantics. And I don't see what's wrong with leaving yourself off of an analysis... like people are going to believe the case you make for yourself anyway, so you might as well just leave it out.

Then ziliu launches another missile, and again it was kinda dodgy. It looks like ziliu is either scum or stuck in an OMGUS rut to me. But he did point out something of worth:
ziliu wrote:You are basically saying that because I keep my vote on you, I must be scum, giving an example: "Assuming he were scum, it would be hypocritical to unvote me, and he would keep my vote on me. Ergo, because he's keeping his vote on me, he would be scum." What you don't say is the same argument would hold if I were innocent.
Bacde ends up actually countering that pretty well, but I cant say I like stuff like this:
Bacde wrote:I don't think you understand how tired I am of people with 300 or less posts doing a "PBPA" on me, misrepresent the situation, try to wagon me and fail, and then get on with the rest of the game. I think something even more protown than looking for scum is the ability to doubt yourself, so you can check on your accusations from a new mindset, to make sure that your position at least holds some fucking water. This just seems to happen to me every damn game.
Especially bringing postcount into it. The only people I've seen subtly defame people (like this) have been scum.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So the people I'm not liking are:

Lloyd - Skated by but the roleblocker claim seems mostly solid. Probably one to come back to at a later date.

Ameliaslay - Has lurked a fair amount. Makes good conclusions when she actually concludes stuff, but that hardly excuses her from scum and she only did it when requested.

Bacde - Many things here, as outlined above. Subtle defamation, some poor logic. Didn't come out of the whole PBPA thing looking good.

Ziliu - And neither did this guy. He didn't give me as much of a scum vibe as Bacde, but I have to agree a lot of his attacks were pretty weak.

I'm probably watching Bacde and Ziliu the closest. The other two are more lurkerish which might sort itself out over time.



Cherry I am unsure about. The first half of his posts I got good scum-hunting vibes from, but as time has gone on his posts have seemed to contribute less and less.

TheCesspit and Yosarian2 I'm pretty happy with.


Is that everyone?
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Post Post #244 (ISO) » Sat May 20, 2006 11:24 pm

Post by TheCesspit »

Cheers for the analysis, TurboV, good to get a fresh view on it all.

I need to sit and think for a while, having not much to add, except LLoyd is on vacation right now (from his earlier posts).
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Post Post #245 (ISO) » Sun May 21, 2006 7:06 am

Post by Bacde »

While I have a good feeling about TheCesspit, something about Yosarian earlier this game unsettled me, although I feel better about him now too.

Also, Turbovolver, I think I've proven pretty well that my alignment is with the town, as where yours is less so. :wink:

Vote: Cherry


Watching that vote for today...
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Post Post #246 (ISO) » Sun May 21, 2006 12:13 pm

Post by Turbovolver »

Bacde wrote:Also, Turbovolver, I think I've proven pretty well that my alignment is with the town, as where yours is less so. :wink:
Did I miss something in the thread?
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Post Post #247 (ISO) » Sun May 21, 2006 4:55 pm

Post by Bacde »

I'm talking about my actions in the game. So far the only reason you seem to think I am scummy is because I have been pretty extrovertive this game. And because I said mean things to ziliu.

One major difference between us turbo, is that I want to lynch scum. You, being the sk (since I can't see how you would be mafia), want to slowly kill both sides at the same rate, forcing us to keep you alive. This is why I won't trust a single word you say.
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Post Post #248 (ISO) » Sun May 21, 2006 5:26 pm

Post by Yosarian2 »

I think that, right now, the person I'm most suspicious of is Ziliu. I decided a few days ago that I was probably going to vote for either Cherry or Ziliu, and I don't like Ziliu's last few posts at all.

Besides, I don't trust it how everyone is so happy to lynch Cherry, because I think that three of the five of your are scum.

vote:Ziliu
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #249 (ISO) » Sun May 21, 2006 10:24 pm

Post by TheCesspit »

Well, seeing as we have one SK, one roleblocker and yourself (as the claims go) 3 from 5 will be scum.

I've got to say my choice is between Cherry and ziliu as well. Y2 tweaked me a little, but it was more giving me scrutiny that is never a bad thing.

Cherry's just too quiet and non-committal. Ziliu to me is howing the marks of overly agressive Town, which is hard (for me) to assess as I've seen that play by both Town and Scum. So:

Vote: Cherry

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