Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins

[Zdenek]

I'm pretty sure that the rest of my wagon is scum or people who haven't actually read the thread and don't really care who gets lynched.

[Tammy]

Zdenek - You messed up your quotes and are voting for yourself now.

[Zdenek]

Tammy, you still haven't said what your reads are.

Now, I also want to know how your questions helped you arrive at them.

Look at post 531 in which I discuss my thoughts on Greenknight and LMP, which came directly from the questions I asked. Look at my read on you, which came directly from our discussion. Look at post 697, which came directly from questions I asked - I have a fairly decent town read on Shadow1 from the responses to my questions as well. Look at post 151, which came directly from the questions I asked. I don't have a read on GNR as he never answered my question. Look at post 644 in which I give a town read on Pine.

Everything is there if you actually read. You've been hounding me for over a week now Zdenek. I've repeatedly mentioned how bad of a distraction this is, not just to me but to the entire game. I've given reads all over the place. I may not have a whole lot, but this has become such a distraction that it's hard to focus on anything. Every time I come in here and try to read the thread and contribute, there's more hounding by you repeatedly saying I'm doing something I'm not doing. I can't continue this argument anymore, please stop. Let me breathe and read the thread without your clutter so I can give reads.

So you have no scum reads from the last 1/2 of the game?

It's not my job to make the game easy for you. Under what little pressure I've managed to put on you, you've stopped scum hunting almost completely.

Jesus Christ Tammy needs to be lynched.

It was actually stupid of me to say that I would just vote where BB had it in that one post.

LOL Backtracking.

I have given reads and interacted with other people, but I'm not going to lie and say that I've given the rest of the game the focus and attention I should have if it weren't for me being caught up in a disagreement with one player.

Paving the way to take whatever stances she deems to be convenient tomorrow.

I could happily go with a zde lynch. I actually think it might be slightly better than a fox lynch. However, with the new deadline extension I can be around to switch my vote in time.unvote, vote: zde... obv, massive TV scum is obv. I think that pretty much sums up what I think of zde. Non contributor after about page 10 due to only talking about tammy.@trekker, what was the point of your last post? Scum/vig (if you are there, please be there), for the love of god shoot this guy.

What the fuck is this nonsense. WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE LIKED ME TO COMMENT ON, YOU CLOWN?

Tell me what the town motivation is to get someone to stop asking questions who is trying to generate discussion and find scum? I can't think of any.

TO GET YOU TO TAKE STANCES YOU DUMB, SCUM FUCK.

I didn't suggest that's what was going on in his mind; I didn't even take a stance on that. I told him why he shouldn't be ready to lynch himself. EXCEPT maybe in the case of a distraction that no one else could focus on. I don't even consider him a distraction and I don't know how he could consider himself a distraction.

So, are you telling me that when a player tells you they're a newbie, you don't give them advice for what are basic issues in a game...explain the mechanics of the game...or tell them why they should or shouldn't do something.

You gave him an out - an excuse for why he was playing like that. It's ridiculous considering the fact that is most other instances you just ask questions.

It's not my job to give suggestions to possible scum in the middle of the game.

[Shadow1psc]

I'm pretty sure that the rest of my wagon is scum or people who haven't actually read the thread and don't really care who gets lynched.

Given how AFfC played out, and most day 1's in general, I'd be surprised if there were more than 2 scum on your wagon (

if you are town

). I don't see scum bussing hard day 1.

[Zdenek]

@Mastin: We were only granted a 24 hour extension. As I type, we've only got 31 hours left. It's time to make a decision. As to why Zdenek, read MoI's case. I find it thoroughly convincing.

MoI's scum and his case was based on a failure to read the thread.

[Zdenek]

I'm pretty sure that the rest of my wagon is scum or people who haven't actually read the thread and don't really care who gets lynched.

Given how AFfC played out, and most day 1's in general, I'd be surprised if there were more than 2 scum on your wagon (

if you are town

). I don't see scum bussing hard day 1.

The game is multiscum, so they wouldn't have to be bussing, but the two scum I was referring to are MoI and Tammy.

[Tammy]

Zdenek - I told you that I ask questions to help me evaluate people. I took stances; I don't see how you can't see that.

LOL - How am I backtracking? Admitting that it was stupid for me to say that I would vote where someone else placed it without getting a read on them is backtracking? I call it being honest.

You know, I realize that you don't know anything about me or how I approach the game. I've tried to explain my play style to you. I don't take convenient stances. I'm not that kind of player and I'm not that kind of person.

If someone is new, I'm going to give them advice about basic things about the game. I just got finished playing a game in which there were three people at end game, one was a newbie and voted someone without discussion on the last day of the game. The killer walked in and hammered ending the game. If someone would have told that person why you don't do that, then town would have had a chance. I don't know who scum are in this game, and I'm damn sure going to give people basic information and advice to avoid crap like that happening. I will always look out for town's best interests.

Thanks, I believe you've now told me I'm too stupid to play mafia and that I'm a dumb fuck. Add that to AV's calling me a stupid bitch. Just fucking fantastic.

You're still voting for yourself by the way, and I don't think you mean to be.

[Feysal]

I've got a problem. I don't think either of our wagons is on scum, and time is running out. At this point, if I had to choose between the two, I'd rather vote Foxace. I am more confident in my Zdenek town read, I am unfamiliar with Foxace and there is more potential for surprise in his play, and Zdenek is in fact contributing something useful while Foxace has gone into defeatist mode. I would rather lynch someone other than these two. MoI is a given, as should be obvious from my vote. AV is another, due in part to his drunk posting and the absurdity of suggesting sheeping Mastin before he even knew which slot he replaced in. Then there is Jackal, whose recent posts have rung alarm bells.

#1086
Jackal claims he supports the Zdenek wagon, but left his vote on Foxace, because he is more likely to be lynched. I don't like this argument at all, since it is basically a self-realising prophecy. He also said earlier that Foxace was his number one scum read, but no mention of that here.
#1073 and #1116
Promises of content instead of actual content. I've seen this used as a scum tell and correctly so. He has had two weeks to read and contribute, and we have seen little more than prod dodging, and jumping on and off Foxace. Curious that he does not vote anyone here. What happened to that Foxace scum read? If Zdenek appears more town to him, why would he not try to push Foxace instead?

[Tammy]

Feysal - I think I saw you post this before and Mastin's not answering me. Is this Zdenek's town play? I really want to know this.

[MaguaofIllusion]

Norman and trekker continue to be wastes of space. Both should DIAF.

Let’s get some more votes on Zdenek! This lynch is within reach!!!!

Shadow1psc is still probably scum keeping a low profile. The suspicion on obv-Town Cooldog doesn’t hurt.

@MoS

– Ok, what is my alignment read from you at this point?

This screams scumbaggo!. Reads as wanting to keep ‘hands’ clean until thread to Zdenek appears. Strong relational tell pending Zdenek flip.

Also

@ Lord M

– you aren’t listing your reasons why Zdenek is Town. Do so now since you are happy to ask others to do the same for Foxace.

@Foxace

– If you are Town stop self-voting and make your vote useful. If you are scum please keep it parked on yourself.

--

...Or you can save me the trouble accept that Zdenek. is. town. I'm dead serious.

Nope.jpg.

Have a Zdenek scum read. Not ascribing to your “Town Town Town because he plays like a scumbag” philosophy.

Yet when I think about it, in all my games, I don't think I've ever seen it from scum. I've seen it plenty of times from town. Heck, I've DONE it as town. I've seen plenty of players do it as town--most importantly, I've seen Zdenek play this exact same way before as town--but never from scum, not in my over 50 games here. Hence, why it's a towntell.

Link me to games where Town Zdenek has taken quotes out of context in a scummy fashion to make terrible cases. I’d love to be able to read said games.

I’m curious how many of your vast 50 games (yes, that’s sarcasm) have you actually played with Zdenek.

And you're not listening to me. I've answered already. Sure, scum legitimately scumhunt in a multiscum game, but that wasn't the point. If that were the case, I could call any player attacking anyone in the game scummy, for any reason because "it's multiball; they could be scum hunting other scum!".

No, you are missing the point. You are saying “He’s scum-hunting so he’s Town” when it isn’t indicative of alignment in this environment.

I see your long ramble about how scum in this game have less reason to legitimately scum-hunt. That’s completely false. Regardless of the mechanics of departure scum can’t sit around and scum-hunt half-assely for fear of being hung themselves. Scum may not care about killing those not diametrically opposed but unless they are morons they certainly do care about appearing Town to survive. Especially given their numbers are expected to be weak in comparison to the set-up total number of players.

Zdenek: Over my dead body.

This can be arranged as necessary. Rope works just as well for you as it does for Zdenek. I have many other players I would rather see hung but if you are going to stake your life on the Zdenek issue ...

--

I'm so sorry, MoI. Your posts are quite frankly, insulting. I hate seeing them.

Life will go on. Do you find it insulting that I call you scum?

By downside do you perhaps mean the downside of tunnelling?

Wanna stop taking marijuana

and getting rid of that tunnel vision?

For someone so hurt by insults you seem happy to sling them, as bolded. Noted.

Not quite. I can't make frequent posts because I have a life. I don't happen to spend any major portion of my waking moments here.
So I post once every 24 or so hours, depending on homework etc.
And I can't chain-respond in convo form either, due to the fact that few people are in my timezone.

Where did I say you had to make frequent, chain posts to not be infrequently posting? Looking at your ISO you actually do make multiple posts on several occasions (3 and 4 in a day) with periods of prod-dodging interspersed.

Suffice it to say your 14 total posts is less than Empking so that’s not a point in your favour.

lulz yeah? Wagons form on norman plenty quickly and at some point norman was holding a clear majority.

Yeah, but the fact that you gave him a Town read specifically for a Page 2 wagon that didn’t exist says to me you are likely scum looking for an excuse to call a terrible player Town for cred.

I’ve busted scum doing this in the past, most recently MistBeauty in the wiped out “Kirby Mafia”.

I was saying how I made more logical and more reasonable posts as scum because I didn't feel like aggravating anyone and I really needed to avoid that noose. My posts are so much more logical and less note-like as scum. They're revised and edited multiple times. I made the point in bold to point out that your assumption "Logical post = town" is wrong.

So you are saying you play more scummy as Town. WTF good is that? You are effectively saying “I play against my Wincon as Town”.

Regarding Tunneling – I’ll just point out the part that you are asserting that isn’t valid:

It is not always a false assumption, but it can be blinding to new or better options that come along, because they do not match the player's "pet theory".

You’d need to show how I’m ignoring other options given I’m not even voting for you or making you the main focus of my posts for your accusation to hold water.

So as you can see all he's doing is jumping back and forth and saying Oh norman's scum no wait Fox is scum no wait...etc.
No arguments supported. Brilliant.

And yet you have a Town read on Norman who isn’t doing anything better. And you’ve also describe multiple other players (Emp and trekker come to mind) yet not a peep out of you re: them. It’s like you are tunnelling him

[Zdenek]

Question: Why is Tammy who has repeatedly said that she doesn't like to use meta in games, so adamant about getting Feysal and Mastin to answer questions about my meta?

Answer: Because she is scum.

[Tammy]

Question: Why is Tammy who has repeatedly said that she doesn't like to use meta in games, so adamant about getting Feysal and Mastin to answer questions about my meta?

Answer: Because she is scum.

Seriously? Am I asking them to link to your past games? No, and I wouldn't read them.

Your meta was brought up by them as your play style. As I've said before I think it's fine to explain your play style. I think explaining a play style can help people understand each other.

You want to know why I would want to be more informed about you? I like making informed decisions, and I like making sure I'm not in confirmation bias as it does nothing for town.

Zdenek - I am not scum. Not even in the slightest. If you hate my play style fine; it doesn't make me scum.

Although, if I was scum, please tell me why I twice pointed out you were voting yourself by accident. If I were scum, wouldn't I just have every motivation to keep my mouth shut and hope no one else noticed it. No one pointed it out when I made the same mistake with AVox and I was recorded as voting for him. But, I guess I pointed it out because I'm just too stupid to play mafia.

[Foxace36]

<b>@Mod</b>

I just don't have the time for this game right now so I am going to request a replacement.

<b>@MoI </b>

If you want me to place my vote somewhere else then fine....


UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tammy

I haven't read too much into zd so I'm not sure about his alignment. From what I have read so far though, my three highest scum reads are Pine, Tammy, and Cooldog.

[Foxace36]

@Mod

I just don't have the time for this game right now so I am going to request a replacement.

[Tammy]

Ok then, here are the 6 people I think you should all read into on D2 as i strongly believe they are scum.

Pine
Empking
Shadoweh
MoS
CoolDog
Trekker/LynchMePlz


Got to go now. My last show of the week is tonight and I gotta get ready.

Really, where am I on this list?

[Foxace36]

I read into a few players last night (You being one of them) and I decided to bump empking off my list and replace him with you.

[Foxace36]

I'll leave you guys with that though. Our dog escaped and I'm gonna go look for him.

I still, however, just hope I am lynched. I have become too much of a distraction IMO.

[BBmolla]

Zdenek - I am not scum. Not even in the slightest. If you hate my play style fine; it doesn't make me scum.

^

So Zdenek vs. Tammy is "MY PLAYSTYLE IS BETTER," and doesn't really seem to have to do with alignments.

I wanna vote Fox.

[BBmolla]

Gonna wait for vote count before I vote. We have another 24+ hours, I don't want to accidentally cut it short.

[CooLDoG]

@Mastin, huge redundent walls a bout the same person over and over again is not contributing to the town We heard it the first time, no the second time, no the 16th time. He would also hurt the town by being affected by confrimational bias[/b]. Which we sorta all ready see by virtue of him attacking tammy's defenders.

I could happily go with a zde lynch. I actually think it might be slightly better than a fox lynch. However, with the new deadline extension I can be around to switch my vote in time.

unvote, vote: zde

... obv, massive TV scum is obv. I think that pretty much sums up what I think of zde. Non contributor after about page 10 due to only talking about tammy.
@trekker, what was the point of your last post? Scum/vig (if you are there, please be there), for the love of god shoot this guy.

I'm marking this for the post-flip. It's so wishy washy it hurts.

Have you been reading my posts, like at all? Go back and read my last 5 posts. Didn't I have one of those "short dialogs" with zde about his TV problem? Didn't I also say that I was voting for fox due to deadline pressures and that I thought we could get a better lynch? Like, really read your top suspect's posts

or get the fuck out

.

While we are talking about zde, let's read his tammy wall... actually, I'll just put it in spoilers and not read it because I know it will just be yet another long string of "damning quotes" with "accusations of scummines" in it.

Spoiler: how many of these can you actually write in one game day???????????

Tammy, you still haven't said what your reads are.

Now, I also want to know how your questions helped you arrive at them.

Look at post 531 in which I discuss my thoughts on Greenknight and LMP, which came directly from the questions I asked. Look at my read on you, which came directly from our discussion. Look at post 697, which came directly from questions I asked - I have a fairly decent town read on Shadow1 from the responses to my questions as well. Look at post 151, which came directly from the questions I asked. I don't have a read on GNR as he never answered my question. Look at post 644 in which I give a town read on Pine.

Everything is there if you actually read. You've been hounding me for over a week now Zdenek. I've repeatedly mentioned how bad of a distraction this is, not just to me but to the entire game. I've given reads all over the place. I may not have a whole lot, but this has become such a distraction that it's hard to focus on anything. Every time I come in here and try to read the thread and contribute, there's more hounding by you repeatedly saying I'm doing something I'm not doing. I can't continue this argument anymore, please stop. Let me breathe and read the thread without your clutter so I can give reads.

So you have no scum reads from the last 1/2 of the game?

It's not my job to make the game easy for you. Under what little pressure I've managed to put on you, you've stopped scum hunting almost completely.

Jesus Christ Tammy needs to be lynched.

It was actually stupid of me to say that I would just vote where BB had it in that one post.

LOL Backtracking.

I have given reads and interacted with other people, but I'm not going to lie and say that I've given the rest of the game the focus and attention I should have if it weren't for me being caught up in a disagreement with one player.

Paving the way to take whatever stances she deems to be convenient tomorrow.

I could happily go with a zde lynch. I actually think it might be slightly better than a fox lynch. However, with the new deadline extension I can be around to switch my vote in time.unvote, vote: zde... obv, massive TV scum is obv. I think that pretty much sums up what I think of zde. Non contributor after about page 10 due to only talking about tammy.@trekker, what was the point of your last post? Scum/vig (if you are there, please be there), for the love of god shoot this guy.

What the fuck is this nonsense. WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE LIKED ME TO COMMENT ON, YOU CLOWN?

Tell me what the town motivation is to get someone to stop asking questions who is trying to generate discussion and find scum? I can't think of any.

TO GET YOU TO TAKE STANCES YOU DUMB, SCUM FUCK.

I didn't suggest that's what was going on in his mind; I didn't even take a stance on that. I told him why he shouldn't be ready to lynch himself. EXCEPT maybe in the case of a distraction that no one else could focus on. I don't even consider him a distraction and I don't know how he could consider himself a distraction.

So, are you telling me that when a player tells you they're a newbie, you don't give them advice for what are basic issues in a game...explain the mechanics of the game...or tell them why they should or shouldn't do something.

You gave him an out - an excuse for why he was playing like that. It's ridiculous considering the fact that is most other instances you just ask questions.

It's not my job to give suggestions to possible scum in the middle of the game.

never been a huge fan of this... but this uses the QT code for boldings. Also, didn't norman say something about day talk. Again, not a huge fan, but it's worth posting:

<b>@Mod</b>

I just don't have the time for this game right now so I am going to request a replacement.

<b>@MoI </b>

If you want me to place my vote somewhere else then fine....


UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tammy

I haven't read too much into zd so I'm not sure about his alignment. From what I have read so far though, my three highest scum reads are Pine, Tammy, and Cooldog.

[Zar]

Tammy
(Her questioning hints to slight defenses #115, #119, #418, #457. While her OMGUssy tunnel of Zdenek for mischaracterization seems genuine, it looks like she's looking to divert the attention, and there's something that rubs me the wrong way about her acknowlegdment of avoiding to bring/use META into games, while she is using META to point out the consistency of her playstyle seems out of character).

Hmmm...it looks like I was wrong and we are cursed to not be on team innocent together once again, huh? So, Zar, how is my question in #457 a slight defense? Considering that 457 isn't a question at all but a response to why I ask questions, you're going to have to do better than that. How are any of them?

Considering there are two team innocents, the odds of both of us being in the same one are rather low, perhaps?

By the way this is my note on your #457. Tell me how my logic is faulty here, please.

#457 Weak Defense against Zdenek (more a reactive counter-accusation), based on "excessive questioning". Tammy's soft attack is based on being possibly halted.

In 115, I'd like for you to point out who I'm slightly defending and why. How is me responding to Greenknight's vote on Avox and asking for his opinion on the debate of the other thread in light of the person he was originally in agreement with who ended up changing his mind a defense of...anyone? I was having a conversation with Greenknight to help me determine what I thought about Greenknight.

#115. You are bringing up a point about AV which I interpret as asking greeknight to reevaluate his position on AV.

In 119, I'd like for you to point out who I'm slightly defending and why. In that post I state that I don't like policy lynches, or comments like the one being presented. If you read you'll notice that Foxace changed Norman's words and suggested a policy lynch. So who am I defending there? I would have said the same thing no matter who had done it.

You are diminishing Foxace's vote on Norman by emphasizing it's policy lynch nature.

In 418, I'd like for you to point out who I'm slightly defending and why. I'm asking your predecessor if that's the only thing he found suspicious about Shadow1 as I was trying to evaluate your predecessor.

Point clarified.

You're stretching, Zar. The sad thing is you know I know you're stretching, and you're still actually trying to do it. So, either you're testing me to see if I'm innocent or you're throwing undeserved crap at me to cast suspicion my way.

Same goes to you, I hope you will be doing better than defending against people find you suspicious by accusing them of "throwing undeserved crap your way."

You are using faulty information concerning meta as well. I told LMP that I try to avoid meta as much as I can when I asked him about how often he uses word choice to catch killers - which if you look at it is me asking him about his playstyle, which is a type of meta that I've always thought was perfectly acceptable. He linked me to a previous game he played to show me an example...that is the type of meta I said I try to avoid. But, Zar, how does me explaining my play style in order to explain myself seem out of character to you?

Struck me as rather awkward you chose to rely on it while you were putting META off in previous posts here. But I guess it seems you find using playstyle META agreeable. Will keep that as a mental note.

I await your response as it should tell me everything I need to know about your alignment.

Do let me know.

[Feysal]

Feysal - I think I saw you post this before and Mastin's not answering me. Is this Zdenek's town play? I really want to know this.

I've only seen him as town once, and I was wrong in my read of him, but his play here has much in common with that game. For instance, in that game Zdenek was making a case against me despite the fact that I had been appointed as Consul and I was therefore immune to execution for the day. On the contrary, I had the power to order executions. I guess that says something about Zdenek as town, and it is unlike anything I have seen in his scum games.

I do agree that this argument is getting out of hand, and having Zdenek calling you names is bad form, even if you were scum.

On the other hand, there is something I wanted to say about your case on him. You have accused Zdenek of misrepresenting you, but I don't think what he has done matches with what the word means. He may have misinterpreted you or mischaracterized you, which indicates a difference of opinion. Misrepresentation would indicate twisting of verifiable facts, and there are none here - we have your word against his opinion. Before I get called out for arguing pointless semantics, misrep is an often used accusation and it carries some weight, and I would not want to see Zdenek mislynched because the case against him used too strong a word.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Getting the feeling that Foxace-scum would have taken the opportunity to get on the Zdenek wagon or at least park his vote on one of his scumlist, especially since we've been repeatedly telling Foxace to quit with the selfvoting so he had every excuse to do so. I also don't like the fact that a bunch of people hopped on the wagon for no reason other than "we might end up with a no-lynch otherwise." Reluctant to lynch him but will still do so rather than no-lynch if we have no other choice.

Yet another reason not to lynch Foxace.

@MoI: I'm still trying to calibrate my scumdar for the addition of Magua to this hydra. I have no good reason to think you're town, though. I could care less about people trying to lynch you, I just want people to stop talking about irrelevant things like who your heads are.

[CooLDoG]

The problem comes when you make your whole case about a misinterpretation and then drone on for 30 pages about it. That is such an easy way to appear like you are generating content.

[Seacore]

Vote Count 1.16

Norman (2) -

LynchMePls, Shadow1psc

MaguaofIllusion (1) -

Feysal

Zdenek (9) -

Tammy, greenknigh, MaguaofIllusion, kondi2424, Mastermind of Sin, Moneybags, Haze, Pine, CooLDoG

Foxace36 (8) -

Shadoweh, brizingre1, AurorusVox, Empking, mastin2x, Zdenek, Lord Mhork, Zar

Jackal711 (1) -

PeregrineV

Shadoweh (1) -

trekker

Tammy (1) -

Foxace36

Not Voting (3) - BBmolla, Norman, Jackal711

(expired on 2012-04-04 00:00:00) left in Day 1.
With 26 alive, 14 are needed to secure a lynch.

Seeking replacement for kondi2424 and Foxace36 - sigh, my player blacklist is growing.