Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins

[Mastermind of Sin]

So...what exactly did he lie about? Your premise looks completely faulty here.

[Pine]

^This (PE: refers to 1774) does not make sense. Its very first premise is completely untrue. WHY WOULD THEY LIE. Being Chaotic or Lawful does not make you scum. Getting caught in a lie DOES. It's a completely and totally unnecessary risk.

[AurorusVox]

MoS; you say Pine is town because he thought through his action.

I say that is false, sir.

If he thought it through, he would have been for ethical massclaim and also used it against the claimed ethic Zdenek.

Look: if scum tell the truth about their ethical alignment, when an opposing ethical side wins, all of THEIR ethic will leave the game.
If scum have told the truth, then at that moment, they will be outed as scum.
Therefore, their only hope is to lie about their ethic.

In an example:

Say, CE scum claim C

CG win
All CG leave the game, and all LE leave the game.
Scum, claiming the truthful C, do not leave the game.
Scum are outed as scum and lose.

If LE win
CG all leave the game
Scum, claiming the truthful C, do not leave the game.
Scum are outed as scum and lose.

Scum's ONLY option is to lie.

Now, if Pine had a role that could detect ethical lies, he should have been FOR an ethics massclaim to force scum to choose between (a) telling the truth and being outed if they are not the first team to win; or (b) tell a lie and be caught by his role

He did not do this.
Therefore I feel that he does not have that role.
Therefore I feel that he is a liar.
And is scum.

[Lost Butterfly]

Hi. Re-read the first 5 pages.

Av looks sorta town from it. Skenvoy looks super town. BBmolla wagon is probably dumb.

[Mastermind of Sin]

MoS; you say Pine is town because he thought through his action.

I say that is false, sir.

If he thought it through, he would have been for ethical massclaim and also used it against the claimed ethic Zdenek.

Look: if scum tell the truth about their ethical alignment, when an opposing ethical side wins, all of THEIR ethic will leave the game.
If scum have told the truth, then at that moment, they will be outed as scum.
Therefore, their only hope is to lie about their ethic.

In an example:

Say, CE scum claim C

CG win
All CG leave the game, and all LE leave the game.
Scum, claiming the truthful C, do not leave the game.
Scum are outed as scum and lose.

If LE win
CG all leave the game
Scum, claiming the truthful C, do not leave the game.
Scum are outed as scum and lose.

Scum's ONLY option is to lie.

Now, if Pine had a role that could detect ethical lies, he should have been FOR an ethics massclaim to force scum to choose between (a) telling the truth and being outed if they are not the first team to win; or (b) tell a lie and be caught by his role

He did not do this.
Therefore I feel that he does not have that role.
Therefore I feel that he is a liar.
And is scum.

I'm not saying you didn't outline the optimal play. However, putting thought into your actions doesn't mean you're going to think of everything. Until this was brought up today, I had never thought about what you just said here. Why should I believe that it's obvious Pine *did* and then lied about it?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Hi. Re-read the first 5 pages.

Av looks sorta town from it. Skenvoy looks super town. BBmolla wagon is probably dumb.

Wrong. BBmolla lurked, got called out on it, OMGUS'd his accuser, then went back to lurking. He's just trying to sit back until the heat goes away. Obvscum play.

[BBmolla]

Hi. Re-read the first 5 pages.

Av looks sorta town from it. Skenvoy looks super town. BBmolla wagon is probably dumb.

Wrong. BBmolla lurked, got called out on it, OMGUS'd his accuser, then went back to lurking. He's just trying to sit back until the heat goes away. Obvscum play.

I'm choosing not to deal with the Pine bullshit because he's most likely town and the wagon on him is trash.

[BBmolla]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: AV

Pretty sure AV has been hopping onto every single wagon except his own.

[Mastermind of Sin]

^LOLOLOLOL OBVSCUM

[Lost Butterfly]

Hi. Re-read the first 5 pages.

Av looks sorta town from it. Skenvoy looks super town. BBmolla wagon is probably dumb.

Wrong. BBmolla lurked, got called out on it, OMGUS'd his accuser, then went back to lurking. He's just trying to sit back until the heat goes away. Obvscum play.

Seems pretty null. (Also Mina totes said Skenvoy is town and she's sitting right beside me)

[AurorusVox]

MoS, you didn't think of it and that's fine because your role isn't designed around the mechanic of mass claiming ethics.

If your role was designed to determine ethical alignments, you WOULD have considered how best to use it.

[AurorusVox]

Unvote; Vote: AurorusVox

There BBMolla. Happy now?

Unvote; Vote: Pine

[Mastermind of Sin]

MoS, you didn't think of it and that's fine because your role isn't designed around the mechanic of mass claiming ethics.

If your role was designed to determine ethical alignments, you WOULD have considered how best to use it.

No, I mean even when I was thinking about how to best use Pine's role earlier today (see my previous posts), I didn't consider what you just said above.

[AurorusVox]

That's a flimsy excuse. If it's PINE'S role, PINE should have thought how to best use it.

He should have at least realised that it's vital for scum to lie about their ethics, especially given the discussions in the pre-crash thread.

[BBmolla]

Unvote; Vote: AurorusVox

There BBMolla. Happy now?

Unvote; Vote: Pine

Man you sure showed me

[Norman]

I'm back! Sorry about that I was working... Alot.

[Shadoweh]

>_>

So the argument against lynching Mhork so far is that he looks like scum.
Great argument 10/10. Why are the rest of you not wanting to lynch Mhork?

[Seacore]

Norman, you've been replaced, do not post.

[Mastermind of Sin]

That's a flimsy excuse. If it's PINE'S role, PINE should have thought how to best use it.

He should have at least realised that it's vital for scum to lie about their ethics, especially given the discussions in the pre-crash thread.

Who actually read the pre-crash thread? LoL...

[Empking]

That's a flimsy excuse. If it's PINE'S role, PINE should have thought how to best use it.

He should have at least realised that it's vital for scum to lie about their ethics, especially given the discussions in the pre-crash thread.

Who actually read the pre-crash thread? LoL...

The people who posted in the pre-crash thread? :shrug:

[AurorusVox]

I'm down for a Mhork lynch but lying Pine or lulzy BBMolla are both better lynches.

[Pine]

MoS; you say Pine is town because he thought through his action.

I say that is false, sir.

If he thought it through, he would have been for ethical massclaim and also used it against the claimed ethic Zdenek.

Look: if scum tell the truth about their ethical alignment, when an opposing ethical side wins, all of THEIR ethic will leave the game.
If scum have told the truth, then at that moment, they will be outed as scum.
Therefore, their only hope is to lie about their ethic.

In an example:

Say, CE scum claim C

CG win
All CG leave the game, and all LE leave the game.
Scum, claiming the truthful C, do not leave the game.
Scum are outed as scum and lose.

If LE win
CG all leave the game
Scum, claiming the truthful C, do not leave the game.
Scum are outed as scum and lose.

Scum's ONLY option is to lie.

Now, if Pine had a role that could detect ethical lies, he should have been FOR an ethics massclaim to force scum to choose between (a) telling the truth and being outed if they are not the first team to win; or (b) tell a lie and be caught by his role

He did not do this.
Therefore I feel that he does not have that role.
Therefore I feel that he is a liar.
And is scum.

Wow, that's...really valid. Not the accusation, that's bullshit, but the massclaim speculation. With scum being forced to lie, then I could actually function as a full Cop.

The problem is that that's the FIRST TIME anyone's come up with that. Despite having pages and pages of discussion. If it were as obvious as you're pretending, someone would have come up with it a long tine ago. So give yourself some credit, cut me some slack, and let's discuss it's merits (and drawbacks).

[Pine]

I'm still utterly confused as to what you think I lied about

[CooLDoG]

... Can we just end this and lynch pine all ready? Seriously, give me one good reason not to lynch you pine. You are basically telling the town that you are not going to use your role in the only way it benefits town. If that doesn't merit a lynch nothing on earth does.

[Mastermind of Sin]

CD isn't even paying attention to this thread LMAO.