New York 146 Zach's Insane Mafia World (OVER)

[Tammy]

Why are people pushing a MOI lynch over our other options? If the reason is that he is still alive, I would disagree for two reasons: 1) His ego does not need any more fueling and more importantly 2) all the NK's up to this point have been PRs of greater interest than MOI.

MOI...who did you use your protects on again?

DY...who have you not investigated yet? Who is still a possibility for a potential SK (redredredredredredredredFF)?

I will support these lynches: redFF, DV, NS.

Why shouldn't they have pushed an MoI lynch? Noted that you seem to be protecting him at this point.

Why are you bringing up MoI's protects at this stage? Did you feel it was really important at this moment to remind people that he had claimed limited DOC?

UM you do realize in post 422 I put a list of who had been investigated so far right? Why did you feel the need to ask? Um wait oh hai in post 432 you lay out a whole list of facts about the possible SK and why it should be red. So, why did you need to ask DY who he had investigated yet?

So, redFF and DV have been lynched. Does that mean you want an NS lynch today then?

[Tammy]

My apologies; after telling Zach that I'd stay in the game to avoid having to find a replacement, I completely forgot about it until being prodded. But I'm here now.

My memory of jason is very scummy. My memory of DV is pretty much null.

I'm totally on board with lynching jason today, and going from there. I don't, however, want to put him at L-1 just yet.

jason: Can you reiterate, please, why you're wiling to sacrifice yourself to save a potential town power role?

Why didn't you want to put Jason at L-1? You've just said a similar thing about Having Fitz and not wanting to put him at L-1. What's up with that?

[Tammy]

Note to self: double-iso Alice + MoI.

Note to yourself? Did you ever actually do this? With MoI? With Fitz? CES?

Why, all of the sudden, are you so active in this game NS?

If you recall, pre-crash, I had asked for replacement. My reason, though not stated at the time, was that I was overloaded. I was in something like 9 or 10 games. However, two things happened: I moved, thus relieving an

enormous

amount of stress from my domestic/personal life, and then we had the crash, which alleviated me from a handful of games. Given that I'm now in only three games, with the bonus of a peaceful and blissful home life, I decided to stay in this game and not make Zach find a replacement in the current difficult environment. I'm also actively trying to limit myself in number of games in order to improve my play. (On re-reading what I just typed: it's not some elaborate AtE; it's just the new direction my life and mafia career is headed.)[/quote]

Why did you feel the need to go into so much over explanation about your helpfulness?

NS - Can you please focus and tell me what you think of MoI and Fitz? Please and thank you.

[Tammy]

Crap! NS - These are the two questions I had for you regarding the above post...

Why did you feel the need to go into so much over explanation about your helpfulness?

NS - Can you please focus and tell me what you think of MoI and Fitz? Please and thank you.

[Nobody Special]

NS - Why don't you want to put Fitz at L-1? If you think he's scum and you want him lynched, what's the big deal?

If you think he's scum, who's his partner (assuming there's two anyway)?

If you put him at L-1, the only people yet to vote are Fitz, MoI, and me. Fitz isn't going to vote for himself. If you believe that MoI is scum too, do you think he's going to vote for his partner? Do you think I'm going to just hammer and if I do what does it matter since you want him lynched anyway?

I wasn't

convinced

he's scum. I just thought so. Therefore, if he's town, then scum could conceivably quickhammer. (MoI is not voting, he's my better read as total scum. Mayhaps I oughta just vote him instead.)

I guess my main worry is that hf is scummy-looking-town and MoI will take advantage of that and quickhammer. Of course, MoI won't be here till late tonight, so it's less 'quick' and more 'hammer' but you get the idea.


Here's my issue with trying to get MoI lynched: My read on him is largely gut. He's alive past N1, and therefore, scum.

I am fairly sure (somewhere at about 85-90%) that there's two scum at this point.


God, I hate this game.

Vote: MoI

Some pairing thoughts: If hf is town, it's MoI and CES. If hf is scum, MoI is the last one. If, Tammy, you are indeed scum, I will be very, very upset. You're bleeding towniness right now.

If scum is framing MoI to be scum (by not actually NKing him), then it's hf and CES.

FNARGLE.

My main issue is that if we lynch town today, we lose, as I'm reasonably sure that there's two scum alive.


I need to re-read (AGAIN FFS) to see if scum is flailing today about mislynching. (Don't worry, that sentence makes sense inside my head.)

[Nobody Special]

How the hell did I miss an

entire page?

Lemme read and respond.

[Nobody Special]

Why didn't you want to put Jason at L-1? You've just said a similar thing about Having Fitz and not wanting to put him at L-1. What's up with that?

Here's my deal with this game: it started when I was essentially letting myself overload into too many games. I then got to the point of overwhelm and replaced out. Then the crash, then I felt sorry for Zach with the replacement climate post-crash, and elected to stay in. Now, I've since moved (personal life has gotten MUCH less stressful, but) and have a bit more time and focus for all games, BUT I've largely never felt very connected to this game. If I'm not fully grounded in a game, I'm wary of putting people at L-1 for fear of not really knowing what's going on.

unvote

Also, no, I never did double-iso Alice and MoI. I should do that.

Maybe.

I also need to double-iso CES/hf and hf/MoI.

Depending on how THAT turns out, then maybe CES/MoI. (And I'll just say right now that I'm very unlikely to go rooting around in the pre-crash game.)

Crap! NS - These are the two questions I had for you regarding the above post...

Why did you feel the need to go into so much over explanation about your helpfulness?

NS - Can you please focus and tell me what you think of MoI and Fitz? Please and thank you.

My overall site-meta is that of a mostly-useless Townie, and a very engaged scum. MoI knows this, and my sudden activity raised a very red flag for him, and he asked about it. It's a null thing, however, because Town!MoI has a history of ragging on me for my playstyle anyway, and Scum!MoI would use this to try to frame me (although he isn't really pushing for my lynch, exactly, so meh).




HEY FITZ: How about sharing that spreadsheet?

[Tammy]

If, Tammy, you are indeed scum, I will be very, very upset. You're bleeding towniness right now.

Someone says some version of this to me in almost all the games I play.


You wouldn't need to double iso Alice and MoI I wouldn't think as they're definitely not partners.

About a potential HF/CES partnership: I'm not seeing it. I could see it if we weren't in endgame, but the best chance that scum have of winning this game is getting us to lynch an innocent today if there are two of them. Therefore, I don't see the practicality of pushing to get your partner lynched today so that in endgame you could maybe convince the other two that you'd never do that to your partner. It's just too risky. I suppose it could be fun in a way to see if you could pull it off, but it would be much safer for scum-CES to push getting any of us lynched but his partner.

About a potential MoI/CES partnership: This one is more likely than HF/CES but I still have my doubts. I haven't liked their interaction so far as it's set me on edge. However, there are a couple things that make me think it's doubtful: I don't think that Jon would have replaced out due to being frustrated with Magua if Magna was his partner as I don't think he would have been that easily intimidated in that instance. If he was Magna's partner, MoI would probably agree with Magua that it was a town-tell that he did replace out so as to give himself a better chance at winning. He at least put forth an effort to get Jon lynched instead of DV on day 5. Bussing is one thing, but bussing near endgame when your victory isn't clear is another. Having his partner around at endgame would be too important I think for him to chance it so close. Oh, and there's another thing he disagreed with me about concerning the day 5 lynch and the likelihood of Jon being innocent, but I'd have to look for it. These things make it less likely as far as I'm concerned, but since neither of them are pushing for the other to be lynched today, it can't be ruled out completely and I have a tendency to clear killers for stupid reasons so

[Tammy]

^^^ Unless CES thought that putting down a vote on HF would discourage us from voting for him, but I still see this as too risky to do in endgame.

[Nobody Special]

Tammy: Do you think there's one or two scum left? percentages of that confidence?

[Tammy]

I am 0% sure how many scum there are left. The last time I played in a game with a SK, it was 20 players with a SK, a 3 person scum team and a traitor, but that was on a different site. You guys started with 18, so I really don't know, and I don't know what is typical for this site. There was talk in the neighborhood and here about how many there might be left. Kamrun said that they thought there was only 3 on the team because of what IaI said just before being lynched about directing the SK to certain targets and having mafia take out others; they thought it sounded like the mafia team felt like they got shafted in terms of power.

I hope there's only one left, but everyone else seems to think that's impossible so I'm not holding my breath.

[Nobody Special]

Who is scum?

If you had to shoot someone right now, compulsively, who would it be?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well the weekend has come and gone without NS / Tammy quickhammering fitz. So worst case either CES or fitz is scum.

VOTE: Fitz

I’ve specifically avoided poking at either NS or you in any strong degree since the Day started to see what you both would do regarding my back and forth with CES.

Both of you pretty much have ignored it. Which is exactly the kind of behavior I’d expect from scum at a possible LYLO situation. Tammy has been engaged in the matter and if it weren’t for some absolutely odd posting in the Neighborhood QT I would not be second-guessing Magua’s Town read on her.

Add in my scum-read on you from prior days and I'm comfortable making this vote.

NS / Tammy aren’t the remaining scum together unless you are Town. And I don’t think you are.

I’ll be re-reading everyone this week.

[Zachrulez]

2nd vote count of day 7:

Havingfitz - 2 (Cogito Ergo Sum, MagnaofIllusion )

Not voting: (havingfitz, Tammy, Nobody Special)

With 5 alive it's 3 to lynch

Day 7 shall end no later than Friday, May 4th at 11pm CST

[Tammy]

Um do you really have to leave that vote on Fitz? I'm really doubting you right now MoI. You've just stated that you think you think that one of NS or I aren't town and you leave Fitz at L-1?

Are you absolutely convinced he's scum then?

Explain please.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Um do you really have to leave that vote on Fitz? I'm really doubting you right now MoI. You've just stated that you think you think that one of NS or I aren't town and you leave Fitz at L-1?

Are you absolutely convinced he's scum then?

Explain please.

Yes, I'm leaving that vote there. I've had a scum-read on fitz (as you have noted) for a significant part of the game. having's play surrounding my CES inquiry and back and forth (along with NS's BTW) fits with scum.

I know I'm Town.
You and NS had ample opportunity to quickhammer this weekend if he was Town. So you both aren't the scum-team.
That means that one of Having / CES has to be scum. It's simple POE mechanics. Scum don't pass up the chance to quick-hammer if it is provided.

Do you think having isn't scum? If not from your perspective who is the scum team and why?

[havingfitz]

SOMEONE PLEASE UNVOTE ME! If MOI AND CES are both scum then we're ok but if either of them are town we are screwed (assuming 2 scum left). I'll answer questions asap/tonight. And yes I have the spreadsheet I mentioned. I'm back from v/LA but I'm on phone and at work.


Not what best way to provide it would be but it definitely won't be over the phone.

Pedit...wtf are you talking about MOI wrt you and CES?

[Tammy]

Well let's see, in the situation that Havingfitz is town, excluding yourself and the obvious NS and I aren't partners because we were here over the weekend. If you are town then you don't know anyone else's alignments. So, NS and I aren't partners, but CES and I could be. CES and NS could be. And you leaving the vote there makes it possible for one of us to hammer.

Well obviously not me because I would have hammered, but you must be pretty convinced that none of NS/CES/ME are partnered if you're town MoI.

[Tammy]

I just think it's a really strange chance that you are taking right now. You say you'll be re-reading everyone this week, but you leave your vote there in a place where there might not be a rest of the week.

[Nobody Special]

MoI: Let's assume fitz is scum.

Who's his partner?

Or do you think there's a good chance there is no partner?

[Tammy]

But also noted MoI, that right after I tell you in the neighborhood that I can't rule out a partnership with you and havingfitz and ask if you'd be willing to vote him today, you run in here and vote him.

I was reading your most recent frustrations with me as a town-tell, but now I'm not so sure.

[Tammy]

Okay. Well MoI and NS are not partners, which is another theory I had. NS and CES are not partnered either.

[Tammy]

Really don't think it's CES and Fitz as I still think starting the wagon is dangerous to do as a partner. That leaves:

Fitz and NS
MoI and CES
Fitz and MoI

[Tammy]

UNLESS we just have one left and then it's all up in the air.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well let's see, in the situation that Havingfitz is town, excluding yourself and the obvious NS and I aren't partners because we were here over the weekend. If you are town then you don't know anyone else's alignments. So, NS and I aren't partners, but CES and I could be. CES and NS could be. And you leaving the vote there makes it possible for one of us to hammer.

Given that your whole paragraph here is predicated on having being Town (which is not my read) I’m not sure why you are playing ‘hypotheticalls’. If having is Town and I’m incorrect then yes, scum can hammer him unless CES is scum and the only one remaining. I’ll take the blame if that’s the case. But that’s certainly not enough for me to reverse my read.

Well obviously not me because I would have hammered, but you must be pretty convinced that none of NS/CES/ME are partnered if you're town MoI.

Um again this is predicated on fitz being Town. I’m pretty sold on that not being the case.

I just think it's a really strange chance that you are taking right now. You say you'll be re-reading everyone this week, but you leave your vote there in a place where there might not be a rest of the week.

Well perhaps given I think fitz is scum I’m looking for his partner among the rest of you. How is this difficult to process?

But also noted MoI, that right after I tell you in the neighborhood that I can't rule out a partnership with you and havingfitz and ask if you'd be willing to vote him today, you run in here and vote him.

I was reading your most recent frustrations with me as a town-tell, but now I'm not so sure.

It’s funny you write this. I specifically said in the QT before this day got rolling that I was going to be focusing on CES to see both fitz and NS’s reactions. And I did so. Then I go LA and you posted a veritable crapton of stuff basically saying I was possibly scum with everyone but yourself and pretty much waffled back and forth on everything. And yet now you seem to somehow think my suspicion of fitz is odd?

Here’s the question – do you think having is scum? Yes or no. You didn’t answer and your evasiveness is further degrading my faith in Magua’s read on you.

--

MoI: Let's assume fitz is scum.

Who's his partner?

You. Given you’ve really not mentioned him all game, specifically avoided putting him at L-1 (in what I think is a complete ‘faux Town’ play BTW) and voted me instead I think you are far and away the best bet for partner.