@Mogri: Blatant ad hom noted, and not appreciated. I'd like it if you would refrain from insulting my intelligence in the future.
Scare tactics also noted. Before I get to actually addressing your posts, let's do a little math.
First, we'll make a few basic assumptions based on simple balance and what we've seen so far in the game.
1. There are 2 scumteams.
2. The scumteams are the same size.
3. The total amount of scum is approximately 1/3 of the town, or 6 players.
4. The scum cannot kill.
5. The setup is mountainous.
This leaves us with a 10-3-3 game to start, and puts us at 10-3-2 right now. The absolute worst case scenario, where we proceed to mislynch every day from today forward, puts us at the point of being unable to win when we hit 2-3-2, at which point we would be in a situation where optimal play would be for all of the scum to claim and we would then decide which scumteam to eliminate, as the scum with 3 members, while numerically superior to each other faction, could not force a lynch on its own, and we, after helping one scumteam eliminate the other, would not regain majority status, regardless of which team we sided with.
That leaves us with EIGHT potential mislynches before we can no longer win. But yet, by accusing you of being scum I could "cost us the game" and "ruin town." Forgive me if I find such claims absolutely laughable and, in fact, much more likely to come from scum having a knee-jerk reaction to unexpected pressure than a townie with as much confidence in his own abilities as you seem to have.
Now, to respond to your actual points.
Wait... You want to lynch me over TWO scumreads, one (the crypto/redff neighbour comment) that I said in my first post as a POSSIBLE read when I hadn't finished my update, and later recanted as inaccurate, and the second being on my eagerness to lynch two very scummy reads, one that ended up as scum? And you are willing to lynch one of the most active scumhunters over a plethora of scummy acting players?
1. Your first comment is a clear misrepresentation of what I said. I don't particularly care about what your initial read of the situation was. What I care about, and I was very clear on this, is how you got from claiming that Mogri was the target of a scum-driven wagon, to having him as a viable lynch candidate. I felt that your stated thought process looked quite a bit like scum deciding "hey, this is a potentially easy mislynch, maybe I should get in on the action and see where it goes." Specifically, let's look at all of your comments regarding Mogri from the time you replaced in to the time you expressed clear support for his wagon.
post 500 wrote:- crypto and FF have been acting like neighbours the whole game. Makes me think the Mogri bandwagon is a mafia lynch plot.
post 505 wrote:I really didn't feel Mogri deserved a bandwagon and if anyone should have a bandwagon at this stage it should be red. Planning on checking up on some more of mogri's posts too because he did seem somewhat scummy, but nothing that stood out yet where I could go 'aha! So that's why he's getting flak!'.
post 513 wrote:The more I read up on mogri the more 'scum vibes' I am getting but nothing stand outish
post 515 wrote:Mogri says relatively nothing which seems scummy. He contributes very little. His 'detrimental to town' (he says detrimental twice) sounds like something a scum might say. Other than that, I see little on him.
Now, in the same post as that last quote you identify redFF and Mogri as your top 2 scumreads and express a willingness to lynch either of them. Now, I can't read your mind, so from where I'm standing you were having trouble figuring out why Mogri had a wagon, got some completely nonspecific "scum vibes" from him which weren't enough to make him stand out to you, and then decided that since he doesn't say enough, and called something "detrimental to the town" he was scummy enough for a lynch. This doesn't add up to me, ESPECIALLY in regards to the rest of your response to me, but I'll get to that.
2. The second thing that you say I accused you of being scum for is being eager to lynch "two very scummy reads, one of which ended up being scum." Again, I feel that I've been misrepresented here, or at least misunderstood. Things like this:
post 576 wrote:Another thing that has occured to me is that Mogri and BB were pushing the red wagon pretty hard. Is it that they are both scum trying to push flak of themselves onto a town lynch? I realise scum will often draw attention to other scum to save themselves, but they are pushing SO hard it seems too convenient for them.
tell me that you were still, at least according to you, linking Mogri and redFF, and reading one based on the other. In the case that you actually believed the above, a scumflip of redFF would warrant at LEAST an updated analysis of the way that Mogri interacted with the scumwagon. I do not remember seeing you do so. In fact, in 696 and 697 you come right out and say that for no other reason than there being potentially two scumgroups, you believe that quicklynching without wagon analysis is acceptable. This is scummy.
3. Your final point here is that I'm attacking you "one of the most active scumhunters" as opposed to "a plethora of scummy acting players." Here's a hint: we're playing a game of mafia. No one is above suspicion, not even you, as much as you may wish you were. I found what I saw of your thought process to be legitimately scummy, and I believe you're pushing a mislynch. I am, therefore, perfectly within my rights as a player, to push for your lynch as an alternative to the current wagons. Active =/= pro-town.
I would have less of an issue over this post if there were like five people left in the game and everyone seemed towny, but even then these are bullshit reads. But for it to be NOW is even worse, sheer insanity, that you would not only vote for me over it, but be pushing to lynch me so hastily. I have never seen such a bullshit comment. Still, it doesn't tell me you are necessarily scummy, as you are scumhunting and there are, as I said, a plethora of other choices, that appear more scummy even than that comment. For now I am just passing it off as stupidity; even for a scum to say this would be stupid (though maybe not, as stupid reasons still give other scum an opening to quicklynch a townie).
Translation: Stop attacking me and I'll consider letting it go. Continue and I'll make you sorry. By the way you're an idiot.
Please tell me why you are deserving of being completely above suspicion, and why anyone who DARES call you scum is stupid or scum themselves.
I am just hoping your idiotic post doesn't catch the attention of what could be a very large cohort of scum voters, giving them a slither of a reason to vote me. Let's hope this doesn't cost us the game, because as I saw it, town was on a sure path to victory. I would be ashamed to have participated in a nightless game as town, where town lost; and one which such clear cut scum as this game. Luckily, there does seem to be some (I am hoping they are) townies in this game with their heads screwed on, so it shouldn't come to that.
Pure scare tactics.
Kairyuu wrote:"Post 576 you clearly state that you are considering the idea of Mogri "pushing flak" onto "town-redFF." Everything I've seen regarding your Mogri case thus far has been contingent on red being town, and your initial read of him has redFF-scum pushing Mogri-town. But yet a redFF-scum flip not only doesn't change your opinion (as evidenced by the fact that you were voting him as of when I replaced and were adamant about his scumminess) but it puts him into the TOP SPOT for a lynch. This is extremely inconsistent reasoning, and reeks of scum to me."
Completely untrue. Your two first sentences contradict each other. CONSIDERING that he was vs. EVERYTHING about my case. My case clearly had more to say than Mogri's interactions with red, and vice versa. And you miss the crux of it anyway. Even IF my entire case was on whether or not Mogri thought redFF was town, the fact that there are potentially two or more scum neighbourhoods means that Mogri could still be scum, and thinking redFF was town - it simply means Mogri would be another coloured mafia.
1. My wording was ambiguous I suppose. The second sentence should say "Everything I've seen regarding your ONGOING Mogri case thus far has been contingent on red being town, and it started as redFF-scum pushing Mogri-town." What I was getting at was that you started with one (dependent) read of the two, progressed to another (still dependent) read, and then when your initial read, which you had discarded by then, was shown to have had potential by a redFF scumflip, you didn't even THINK about reconsidering your case in terms of the new evidence (a protown move) and instead pushed for a Mogri lynch immediately (a scummy move).
2. In fact, your "case" can be summed up as "I don't like the way he plays, and he's linking himself with redFF, who I also think is scum." Let's go over each and every actual mention of WHY Mogri was scummy D1.
post 515 wrote: Mogri says relatively nothing which seems scummy. He contributes very little. His 'detrimental to town' (he says detrimental twice) sounds like something a scum might say. Other than that, I see little on him.
post 576 wrote:Another thing that has occured to me is that Mogri and BB were pushing the red wagon pretty hard. Is it that they are both scum trying to push flak of themselves onto a town lynch?
post 689 wrote:Just a vibe. He speaks technically and his posts seem to have no uniform purpose, like he is picking random things to say to hide his scumness. His general reaction to scumhunting in that he interjects at odd times with odd comments that achieve nothing. He never bothered to give me scumreads (from memory, correct me if I am wrong), he just tries to throw random suspiscions on others but doesn't seem contemplative of his suspiscions, emotionally engaged with them or even assured of what he is trying to say. He is trying to fly under the radar with a very odd style that just screams scum.
So, he's not saying what you believe is "enough," he's using words that you don't particularly like, he's linked to redFF, and he has a "very odd style." Nice "case."
3. As for your hypothetical, the fact that it's a possibility does not mean it's the ONLY possibility, or that it's even the most LIKELY possibility. The only reason you would have for completely ignoring the fact that redFF flipping scum calls for a reread of Mogri would be if you were scum hoping to cash in on what you already knew had the potential to be an easy lynch based on the size of the wagon D1.
Maybe I should go through and highlight EVERY instance where another player has contradicted him/herself in terms of there scumreads (and the example you gave of mine isn't even a contradiction) and show you how many times you must have overlooked other players that have actually contradicted themselves. I already highlighted one with Hiraki, and showed that one simple contradiction, while a scumtell, isn't enough to say 'ok, we got him boys, lynch the fucker'. I reckon I could present an entire list of instances of bandwagon flipping, opinion changing without explaining why or backing it up with feasible evidence, logical fallacies, scummy players forgetting who they should vote for and why, potential bussing and quickly changing to 'no, they are a saint', quick votes for the fuck of it and disinterested players, probably because they are missing out on the joy of their desired NK (understandable, but obviously still a scumtell).
Translation: I'm about to start flinging accusations at anyone and everyone I possibly can in the hopes that it distracts from the case you made against me.
Nice try, but shit-flinging is ALSO a scummy move. In fact, lack thereof is one of the reasons I think Mogri is town.
And you pick me up on one supposed contradiction you didn't even think about. Fucking ridiculous. And now I suppose you will accuse me of being scummy for overeacting. Fuck it. I am town and you should know it. The only person with 'extremely inconsistent reasoning' here, is you. Tempted to lynch you whether you are scum or not, because of your fucked up logic that is going to ruin town. But even while angry, I know better. You obviously don't.
1. Oh, I thought about what you've been doing. I thought about it plenty. Why do you think I'm voting you right now?
2. Just because you acknowledge that you're performing a scummy action and then say "but I'm totally not scum" doesn't mean that the action is any less scummy. You ARE overreacting, and it IS scummy.
3. I should "know" that you're town based on what? Your rugged good looks?
4. Funny, but in the entirety of these two posts I've not seen a single mention until now of MY reasoning being inconsistent. Pray tell, where are these so called inconsistencies in what I've said?
5. Translation: I
really
want to OMGUS you right now, but I realize that it'll make me look even worse, so I'm going to pretend to take the high road and throw a few more insults out there for good measure.
Because, no matter how you dress it up, that's what the world is. A community of idiots doing a series of things until the world explodes and we all die.
