Dungeons and Dragons

[Kublai Khan]

I wanna do more ad&d in mish mash

This. If anyone starts up another mishmash D&D game, let me know.

[OhGodMyLife]

Thinking about running a Mish Mash Pathfinder game with short, strict deadlines for a fast pace of play (something like 24 hours, at least for battles). Who would be interested / available to keep up that kind of schedule?

Also, anyone know a good, simple way to make images of maps?

[Sudo_Nym]

I would, but I haven't got the Pathfinder books, and I'm legally forbidden from torrenting again.

[OhGodMyLife]

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/

Has pretty much everything you need to play, for free on the interwebs

[UncertainKitten]

I use this for Pathfinder, but same difference: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/

OGML: I use Google Docs and make a spreadsheet. They are the most ghetto maps ever, but they work.

[BBmolla]

Sounds like they need a archer of some sort?

Something like a ranger?

I'm the rogue in question, and I can provide a small amount of archery, as I have and can use crossbows. I won't have any feats related to archery for a while, so I may not be that effective, but I can fill in that gap if needed. Rolled a 17 DEX, so that may be helpful.

Also, I think our pally is going Cleric instead, with Reck going Fighter and the last guy going Ranger (probably).

Yes this is what I'd suggest.

Fighter(To take damage)
Cleric(To heal)
Ranger/Rogue(Shoot from a distance/track/deal with traps)
Wizard(Do Wizard shit)

Depends what level you guys are playing at, if you're starting at 1 and not going to play all that much, don't use spellcasters, they'll be boring as shit.

If you guys plan on either starting higher or playing till you get to higher levels, go ahead and play wizard/sorc, they'll be fun eventually.

[Sudo_Nym]

Here's usually what I recommend, for an optimal party

Cleric (Take more martial domains, best for tanking)
Cleric (Healing)
Cleric (More offensive spells; can multiclass Wizard/Mystic Theurge for more oomph)
Cleric with one rogue level (Best trapfinder).

It's pretty much the most powerful party. Feel free to replace the Cleric-Tank with a Druid-Tank; some of the Wild Shapes are ridiculously powerful.

[Kcdaspot]

So tell me sudo which class you REALLY like? What are your true thoughts?

[/sarcasm]

[UncertainKitten]

No, he's right, Clerics are better at everything than every other class except potentially casting. Wizards get lots more save and suck which is vital, and Mystic Theurge is a legitly horrible class why would you do that Sudo?

[Sudo_Nym]

Mystic Theurge is fine if you're trying to get Wizard caster levels on a Cleric. I used to take the Magic and Arcana domains, then a few caster levels as a wizard, which gave a lot of Arcane power to a Cleric while still getting to level 9 divine spells.

I also like Rainbow Servant on a Sorc, though then you only get to level 8 spells in arcane and divine.

[UncertainKitten]

Huh. Well, I know there was some cheesy way to get level 9 spells in both arcane and divine but damned if I can remember it. But it used a lot of silly multiclassing.

[Sudo_Nym]

I forget the name of it now, but there's a prestige class in FR that starts at level 4 spells, and goes up to level 9 around the 6th level in the class, and uses the cleric spell list (though gets no domains). Makes it very easy to get to level 9 despite multiclassing.

[AniX]

Thinking about running a Mish Mash Pathfinder game with short, strict deadlines for a fast pace of play (something like 24 hours, at least for battles). Who would be interested / available to keep up that kind of schedule?

Also, anyone know a good, simple way to make images of maps?

I would be immensely interested.

Also, if anyone ever needs another person for an outside-mafiascum online game, I'm super interested. I'm experienced with 3.5 and Spirit of the Century and could pick up Pathfinder I suspect easily enough. My normal group had to break up since we graduate from undergrad and spread all over the place with conflicting schedules.

[Viktyr Korimir]

Huh. Well, I know there was some cheesy way to get level 9 spells in both arcane and divine but damned if I can remember it. But it used a lot of silly multiclassing.

Most straightforward way, if you're Evil, is Wizard 8/Mindbender 1/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8.

[Viktyr Korimir]

I also like Rainbow Servant on a Sorc, though then you only get to level 8 spells in arcane and divine.

Text trumps table and the errata never fixed it: Rainbow Servant doesn't lose caster levels.

Of course, it's better on a Beguiler or a Warmage than on a Sorcerer.

[Sudo_Nym]

I also like Rainbow Servant on a Sorc, though then you only get to level 8 spells in arcane and divine.

Text trumps table and the errata never fixed it: Rainbow Servant doesn't lose caster levels.

Of course, it's better on a Beguiler or a Warmage than on a Sorcerer.

The errata didn't fix it, but the DM did. Poor DM; he had a table full of powergamers and rules lawyers to deal with. We once had a three hour argument on whether Detect Magic could locate somebody under an Invisibility spell. HE CAN- IT'S A MAGIC SPELL, AND DETECT MAGIC DETECTS MAGIC SPELLS

[Viktyr Korimir]

Yeah, I sympathize. A lot of Prestige Classes seemed to have been designed by people who didn't understand the kind of class abilities that would be worth the loss of ninth level spells... which is to say,

absolutely nothing

.

Of course, this only leads back into my general rant about how 3.X completely ruined multiclassing.

[Sudo_Nym]

Plus, Wizards didn't seem to comprehend how quickly Clerics become godlike superbeings with the supplements. Immediate access to any divine spell, no divine spell failure chance from armor, feats that make the Turn Undead class feature incredible, plus some powerful prestige classes. It's just unfair.

Those turn undead feats were crazy, though. Even if you don't want to be a caster class, you're still better off being a Paladin instead of a Fighter, just to take the Divine Might feat. And then, you're still better off multiclassing to Sorc at level 4, for the spells. Argh!

[Yosarian2]

Heh. Wizard is such a funny class, especally in second edition. It's like "Play this class if you don't mind running and hiding from everything until you somehow survive get to a decent level, but want to be godlike at high level, and think there's actaually a chance your gaming group will be together long enough for that to pay off."

I really do want to know why they decided to make a level 1 wizard weak enough so that he would usually be killed in battle with a single angry housecat.

When my one group of friend played, wizards tended to get weapon proficiency in sling at first level a lot, on the theory that you'd spend most of your time hiding in trees and you might as well try to do something useful while you're there.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Is the wizard still like that in 4e, or are all the classes balanced now?

[Viktyr Korimir]

They're all pretty much balanced in 4e-- every class has a role, every class is good at its role, and each role is really important. It's just boring, in my opinion. There aren't enough out-of-combat powers, for the mages or for any other class.

[Yosarian2]

Is the wizard still like that in 4e, or are all the classes balanced now?

Wizards, even low level ones, get to cast a wimpy version of magic missile pretty much at will in 4e, which is kind of cool.

I really don't like the 4e combat system in general, though; players have a lot less room for creativity then in "real" D&D games, and combat doesn't have the D&D flavor anymore. I don't think the classes are that well balanced, either, but I haven't played it enough to say for certain.

[Sudo_Nym]

If you're casting the Magic Missile at will, you're missing out. It's actually the worst At-Will Wizards have access to; it only does damage, which is bad for a controller, and doesn't roll to-hit, which by RAW means it doesn't get bonus damage, so it's bad damage. Wizards get some very good at-wills for a controller.

The balance in 4e is pretty solid; it's not perfect, granted (Rangers get crazy DPS), but it's not terribly broken, and you can be a good character in any class, except for Seeker. I don't know anything about 4e post-Essentials, though.

I understand the hate for 4e, I guess, it's just not important to me. 4e to me, feels like a very fun RPG to play, it's just not very similar to previous DnD games. If they'd called it something else, it probably wouldn't have half the hate it gets.

[Nightson]

It really depends on what you want out of the system. If you want balanced classes 4e is much better then 3.5/Pathfinder. But it balances things by making magic very generic, your spells are bolts and explosions that do damage and give a status condition and this isn't different from what other classes can do. Pathfinder on the other hand is not balanced, it just isn't, spellcasters are squishier then other classes and they can run dry on juice, but they do things mundane classes simple can't. Personally, I like the unbalanced magical system because the sorts of things it can do are more in keeping with what I think fantasy magic should be like.

[Sudo_Nym]

Which is where the division between roleplay and combat comes in; the same thing that's defined every RPG, really. DnD's roots are in tactical combat games, and I have no problem with 4e, which makes a real return to that. If I want a game that's heavy on RP, and a little fuzzier on combat, I'm happy to play WoD or Shadowrun.