Mini 1337 - Elite Mafia (Game Over)

[TeChNoWC]

On my phone so responses
@techno
1. You used OMGuS incorrectly. I have provided reasoning to my attack. If I voted you indiscriminately then that is OmGUS. Learn your terms before you use them.
2. Telling me to lurk is more telling of your scuminess. I can see you squirm more of you're resorting to insults rather then cases to attack me.
3. I rank Sens fan then you Scum. Rofl is a special name on the list since he's up there by association. Sensfan has more logic behind my
attack. You have more gut. If I could double vote I would. Obviously I can't so I'll advance all my cases wih posts and votes where I can. Tellin me that I shouldn't advance either case is pretty basic scum tactics because I can vote and argue multiple people at one and catch all the scums this way. I'll make note of that since you can only tunnel from you.

4. Oh pleasE rofl copter ignored your questions you posted before. It took your scum read for you to continue to engage in your very own case? You're not even nailing roflcopter for this. This is why I linked you two. It reads as basic distancing. I shouldn't be encouraging you to scum hunt.

Sorry for the typos. On my phone.

1. You had nothing to say about me until I put you on my scumdar
2. I didn't tell you to lurk. I was helping you with your scumreads on me, since you seemed to be having trouble. Just letting you know that if you want fabricate a case, throwing in 'lurking' as one of your points really polishes off that neighbourhood stuff.
3. I never said anything about not advancing your Sen case, I said your reasoning for roflcopter being scummy has even more assumption than your case on me.
4. So now its roflcopter who ignored me, not me that ignored him? Please make this clear. Me watching rofl's every post has less to do with my so called 'bussing' of a non-confirmed player, and more to do with
a) I don't have a massive scumread on him, and never said I did, just that he was coming off somewhat scummy
b) I have six other games going on and this game is in its infancy. We are far from deadline, and there is plenty of time to gather reads. I was asked for mine, and I gave them. There was little weight in them considering its so early into D1, but I will gladly give them for what they are worth.

Frankly I find you jumping to conclusions and looking for reasons that aren't there. Please lay out clear examples of both I and roflcopter distancing each other, and I will be happy to follow up on whatever post he/I missed; but in terms of it being scumtells, is pretty farfetched. You looking to find such definitive cases so early in the game and elaborate on massive hypotheses on scum teams and plots and what not just seems super scummy. Maybe I should be playing your game, and saying YOU are bussing your scumbuddy roflcopter (and please, this time note my sarcasm).

Vote: DTMaster

Now, just so you don't jump to irrational conclusions, no, this doesn't mean I am jumping from the rooftops screaming 'DT IS SCUM! LYNCH HIM!' or 'HE'S CLEARLY BUSSING ROFLCOPTER' or that I will be reading your EVERY post with fine tooth and comb. What it means is, you seem a pretty scummy lead I am more than willing to explore, for now.

[DTMaster]

Ha it's on. Line by line analysis will follow with quote wall will follow after I run my gels for my digests in the lab today.

[TeChNoWC]

Challenge accepted.

[absta101]

[TeChNoWC]

Gasp from the crowd of supremely interested onlookers noted.

[SensFan]

Huh, but doesn't that mean you have some sense of reasoning to pick those two players from the rest to answer Rofl's question?

Very small reasons, but they were the best I had at the time. As I said, I didn't think there was a whole lot to go on.

[Humble Poirot]

Disclaimer. Doesn't account for page 6 (general comments about page 6 in notes
section)

@DTMaster:

Re (Aragula):
I agree that defending people is legitimate. The thing that called my attention regarding Aragula's behaviour was that he just jumped in the middle of an argument/question with a question/refutation that seemed to counter or defuse the attacker. from iso #0 to #5, it's all dismissive, there's no arguments towards building a case or anything.

He now explains that he hasn't

"picked up on much that is scummy"

so I can give him the benefit of the doubt (Like I'm doing with others) but that stance on page 5 seems to be quite widespread and is dangerous. If a significant amount of players claim not to see anything scummy and they don't try and probe then the game comes to a halt. It can be argued that he has scumhunted with his questions but it's mainly reactive.

I honestly wasn't aware of the long weekend. I now realize some of you had mentioned it but I took no notice (Remember users come from all around the world in MS)

@Thomith

Thomith, I'll reformulate one of my questions to make sure you don't miss it.
If someone else does the same thing as borkjerfkin and votes someone they know, would you still find it scummy? I'm asking because I'm pretty sure SensFan and roflcopter know each other.

@TechnoWC:

1. You: your posts contain short jabs and psuedo-questions aimed at players I have townreads on that sound like the lead up to a portfolio of bussing tactics and potential scumreads that aren't scumreads at all, but reads to fall back on when voting for someone.
2. DT: he seems twitchy and nervous.

SMEAR ALERT! SMEAR ALERT!

This reads like an opinion piece from a political opponent.
1. contains lots of words and adjectives and a mash-up of concepts displayed in
a bombastic way. But let's run down what it says.

- roflcopter jabs and pseudo-questions (what makes them so? has anyone else done this?)
- roflcopter suspects players I have town reads on (so?)
- "portfolio of bussing tactics and potential scumreads that aren't scumreads at all" - (this barely makes sense. Too much lyrical hyperbole and quite the mixup accusing him of both setting up buses and future mislynches)

2. This kind of accusation towards a player that has few but developed posts without any evidence makes it even worse.

It's important to note that TechnoWC provides NO example for his claims. None whatsoever.

@Poirot: love the Poirot tell. Would love to see meta on a game where you won as town and smashed scum out of the ballpark with massive speals of scumreads that no one else picked up on, rofl rofl.

I don't really understand this. Because of the @ he seems to be talking to me. But then he talks about my tell in third person and then asks for meta (mine?) but then ends up rolling on the floor laughing (Twice)? Is that sarcasm?

Can you rephrase this and clarify the point you were trying to make, if any?

Not liking your OMGUS of me much though, its quite
telling.

How was DTMaster OMGUSing you? He validly complained about a one liner where you called him scum.

Then telling him what to do in a condescending manner as if you knew he was scum. More horrible smear tactics.

Your answer to roflcopter is quite convoluted. Either your thought process as town is a bit contradictory and too forward and bombastic or you're just making things up depending on what benefits you most.

Your reasoning worries me.

how does DTMaster's reasoning worry you? As in DTMaster is town and failing?

@SensFan:

5 pages on and you haven't scumhunted (in writing) ONCE. Just replied with barely in a non-committal fashion.

- RQS is bad. Inactive Game.
- Seacore is significant but I won't know how until later (useless for the moment and one could argue that is just subject to manipulation in a later stage)
- name 2 town reads but don't develop and evade answering why later on.
- defending your view on significant or attacking your attackers' view on significant.

Still without any scumreads, SensFan? Do you disagree that you haven't committed to absolutely ANYTHING in the whole game?

notes:

FoS: TechnoWC:

For his smear piece on roflcopter (and DTMaster).
Thomith and SensFan are my other main suspects so far.

I'm likely to vote soon but I hope to get both more content and analyze things in context. Maybe meta my main suspects a bit.
I agree with other players about Seacore. He puts his money were his mouth is. He's aggressive but seems to provide good and genuine motives for what he does.

Focusing in a scumteam association is a bad idea. It will shift the conversation uselessly. TechnoWC is, in fact, trying to discredit DTMaster entirely (and therefore improving his own standing) by attacking the alleged connection between roflcopter and him.

Page 6:
TechnoWC seems to be upping the ante. Every post of his reinforces my scumread on him. The amount of emotion, adjectives and personal attacks seems to be a trademark. DTMaster has focused on many people and has generally had a pro-town attitude. His only mistake, in my opinion, is to pair up people this early.

SensFan keeps acting as if the game hadn't even started. Nothing going on. Anti-town at best.

[Humble Poirot]

We need to hear from UnofficialRulerOfEveryone, Milk, MormonCoffee, Pheneas, Aragula, Thomith.
What's your opinion on the last exchanges between DTMaster and TechnoWC? What do you think about my post and the points I raise against TechnoWC? Any conclusion regarding Thomith's vote, reasons, unvote and posterior explanations? What about SensFan's play-style so far?

[Thomith]

it depends, i find the way bork worded it weird, but as i have been told it is next to nothing, give me some time to answer your other points in a quick re-read

[TeChNoWC]

Disclaimer. Doesn't account for page 6 (general comments about page 6 in notes
section)

@DTMaster:

Re (Aragula):
I agree that defending people is legitimate. The thing that called my attention regarding Aragula's behaviour was that he just jumped in the middle of an argument/question with a question/refutation that seemed to counter or defuse the attacker. from iso #0 to #5, it's all dismissive, there's no arguments towards building a case or anything.

He now explains that he hasn't

"picked up on much that is scummy"

so I can give him the benefit of the doubt (Like I'm doing with others) but that stance on page 5 seems to be quite widespread and is dangerous. If a significant amount of players claim not to see anything scummy and they don't try and probe then the game comes to a halt. It can be argued that he has scumhunted with his questions but it's mainly reactive.

I honestly wasn't aware of the long weekend. I now realize some of you had mentioned it but I took no notice (Remember users come from all around the world in MS)

@Thomith

Thomith, I'll reformulate one of my questions to make sure you don't miss it.
If someone else does the same thing as borkjerfkin and votes someone they know, would you still find it scummy? I'm asking because I'm pretty sure SensFan and roflcopter know each other.

@TechnoWC:

1. You: your posts contain short jabs and psuedo-questions aimed at players I have townreads on that sound like the lead up to a portfolio of bussing tactics and potential scumreads that aren't scumreads at all, but reads to fall back on when voting for someone.
2. DT: he seems twitchy and nervous.

SMEAR ALERT! SMEAR ALERT!

This reads like an opinion piece from a political opponent.
1. contains lots of words and adjectives and a mash-up of concepts displayed in
a bombastic way. But let's run down what it says.

- roflcopter jabs and pseudo-questions (what makes them so? has anyone else done this?)
- roflcopter suspects players I have town reads on (so?)
- "portfolio of bussing tactics and potential scumreads that aren't scumreads at all" - (this barely makes sense. Too much lyrical hyperbole and quite the mixup accusing him of both setting up buses and future mislynches)

2. This kind of accusation towards a player that has few but developed posts without any evidence makes it even worse.

It's important to note that TechnoWC provides NO example for his claims. None whatsoever.

@Poirot: love the Poirot tell. Would love to see meta on a game where you won as town and smashed scum out of the ballpark with massive speals of scumreads that no one else picked up on, rofl rofl.

I don't really understand this. Because of the @ he seems to be talking to me. But then he talks about my tell in third person and then asks for meta (mine?) but then ends up rolling on the floor laughing (Twice)? Is that sarcasm?

Can you rephrase this and clarify the point you were trying to make, if any?

Not liking your OMGUS of me much though, its quite
telling.

How was DTMaster OMGUSing you? He validly complained about a one liner where you called him scum.

Then telling him what to do in a condescending manner as if you knew he was scum. More horrible smear tactics.

Your answer to roflcopter is quite convoluted. Either your thought process as town is a bit contradictory and too forward and bombastic or you're just making things up depending on what benefits you most.

Your reasoning worries me.

how does DTMaster's reasoning worry you? As in DTMaster is town and failing?

@SensFan:

5 pages on and you haven't scumhunted (in writing) ONCE. Just replied with barely in a non-committal fashion.

- RQS is bad. Inactive Game.
- Seacore is significant but I won't know how until later (useless for the moment and one could argue that is just subject to manipulation in a later stage)
- name 2 town reads but don't develop and evade answering why later on.
- defending your view on significant or attacking your attackers' view on significant.

Still without any scumreads, SensFan? Do you disagree that you haven't committed to absolutely ANYTHING in the whole game?

notes:

FoS: TechnoWC:

For his smear piece on roflcopter (and DTMaster).
Thomith and SensFan are my other main suspects so far.

I'm likely to vote soon but I hope to get both more content and analyze things in context. Maybe meta my main suspects a bit.
I agree with other players about Seacore. He puts his money were his mouth is. He's aggressive but seems to provide good and genuine motives for what he does.

Focusing in a scumteam association is a bad idea. It will shift the conversation uselessly. TechnoWC is, in fact, trying to discredit DTMaster entirely (and therefore improving his own standing) by attacking the alleged connection between roflcopter and him.

Page 6:
TechnoWC seems to be upping the ante. Every post of his reinforces my scumread on him. The amount of emotion, adjectives and personal attacks seems to be a trademark. DTMaster has focused on many people and has generally had a pro-town attitude. His only mistake, in my opinion, is to pair up people this early.

SensFan keeps acting as if the game hadn't even started. Nothing going on. Anti-town at best.

Uh, pretty sure it was DT that upped the ante, not me:

Ha it's on. Line by line analysis will follow with quote wall will follow after I run my gels for my digests in the lab today.

To reclarify, DT is riding me, not the other way around. Bias a little?

Roflcopter's pseudo questions are posts 28, 35, 37 and 44. I thought it would have been pretty obvious considering rofl had about six posts at the time.

My post to you was a compliment, lol. In reference to Poirot, the TV character? From where you get your name sake? -_-

DT 'validly' complained, but then also followed with a big speal about how I could be scum and in allegiance with roflcopter after I had posted about four times. That either makes him a fucking scumhunting boss machine, or making shit up on the spot because I offended him.

It's weird how you equate 'condesenscion' with scum. So, I have to be scum to act like a bit of a prick? Town are really nice, right? Also wondering why you think me attacking DT about connecting me with roflcopter as scummy. Dude, wouldn't you if someone made a bogus claim with no flip, and little evidence? Then telling DT 'not to mention it' because it will 'shift the conversation badly'. Trying to give an unconfirmed tips on how to slip under the radar?

'2. This kind of accusation towards a player that has few but developed posts without any evidence makes it even worse.' Sorry, were you talking about DT?

"how does DTMaster's reasoning worry you? As in DTMaster is town and failing?" what, the fuck. Know something I don't? His reasoning worries me just as it worries you, because he called me out as scummy and a neighbour after like four posts...

There is some serious neighbouring going on between DT and Poirot, smells pretty fishy!!

[Thomith]

from a theory perspective DTM and Tech could be town vs town as scum might not try that hard to defend themselves, however the extent they have been going on at each other and the fact they could be easy lynched if scum if they left it makes me think it could be otherwise, however i want to hear more before making a decision.

i agree that the way tech has been attacking dtm it looks like it is because of a possible dtm/roflcopter connection, and in that last post saying there is "neighbouring" going on seems weird, as i don't see
a- why they used neighbouring in that context
b- how they can make up definite reads on

possible

connections.

[TeChNoWC]

from a theory perspective DTM and Tech could be town vs town as scum might not try that hard to defend themselves, however the extent they have been going on at each other and the fact they could be easy lynched if scum if they left it makes me think it could be otherwise, however i want to hear more before making a decision.

i agree that the way tech has been attacking dtm it looks like it is because of a possible dtm/roflcopter connection, and in that last post saying there is "neighbouring" going on seems weird, as i don't see
a- why they used neighbouring in that context
b- how they can make up definite reads on

possible

connections.

Who is they in a and b?

What connection between dtm/roflcopter? Its POSSIBLE, but I was pretty much being sarcastic.

Hope your not taking my last neighbour comment seriously either.

I'm not getting this either "and the fact they could be easy lynched if scum if they left it makes me think it could be otherwise"

Please clarify.

[TeChNoWC]

Did you mean, left the argument alone?

Also, I fail to see how I have been 'trying hard to defend myself'. Or even DT, for that matter.

[Thomith]

well trying then, as theory wise i am not sure town v scum or scum v scum would go out that hard on each other, as i would think scum would try not to be noticed so they wouldnt try to get the arguement more fueled.
also why did you say things that weren't serious and weren't obviously a joke?

[TeChNoWC]

This:

"There is some serious neighbouring going on between DT and Poirot, smells pretty fishy!!"

Read it in context with the rest of my posts dude. A dig at the whole neighbour stuff.

I haven't ruled out the possibility that DT is town, sure. I need to look at some of his other meta, but claiming someone as scum and neighbour, and then SOMEONE else as scum by association, after 6 posts each is oddly untown, and sounds like keen scum to me. Plus the fact that it was right after I had put his name up as a scumread ('shit ive been detected, going into im really protown lets kill scum attack mode!'). Seems pretty scummy to me.

[Humble Poirot]

Then telling DT 'not to mention it' because it will 'shift the conversation badly'. Trying to give an unconfirmed tips on how to slip under the radar?

Yes. You're trying to shift the conversation out of your own scummyness (your smear posts) and put everything into DTMaster's guess of a scumteam (And discrediting him for it).

And the fun fact, is that you keep throwing these subtle smears at anyone who attacks you. Right now, it's me. You're telling me I'm directing DTMaster on how to slip under the radar. That's an implication that I'm scum with DTMaster. Yet, you don't outright say it. You just smear.

'2. This kind of accusation towards a player that has few but developed posts without any evidence makes it even worse.' Sorry, were you talking about DT?

Yes.

"how does DTMaster's reasoning worry you? As in DTMaster is town and failing?" what, the fuck. Know something I don't? His reasoning worries me just as it worries you, because he

called me out as scummy and a neighbour

after like four posts...

(emphasis mine) Well, I get the impression that you think DTMaster is scum. If you think he is scum, why be worried about his reasoning? You'd just dismiss it if faulty. The "worry" seemed to be an implication that you were unsure of his alignment. At least, that's my interpretation. (preview edit: Considering you're claiming to be unsure of his alignment this might be excusable)

When did he call you neighbour? Can you stop saying neighbour for everything? Try and define clearly what you're saying. If you're accusing DTMaster and me of being in a scumteam, say so. If you're implying someone has the role neighbour, say it. If you're implying people are acting too friendly to each other, phrase it in an unambiguous way.

"Buddying up to someone"

is a good expression for that.

There is some serious neighbouring going on between DT and Poirot, smells pretty fishy!!

Again, this is the type of mild accusations that scum usually makes. Trying to paint your attackers as the scumteam without arguments and without outright saying so.

preview edit:

Hope your not taking my last neighbour comment seriously either.

Why wouldn't we? You've already hinted at a connection between me and DTMaster.

Read it in context with the rest of my posts dude. A dig at the whole neighbour stuff.

YOU are the only one throwing the words neighbourhood and neighbouring around.

I haven't ruled out the possibility that DT is town, sure. I need to look at some of his other meta, but claiming someone as scum and neighbour

WHERE did DTMaster call you a Neighbour?

I've iso'd DTMaster and looked for words starting with nei. No result

[roflcopter]

while i don't like the fact that milk has lurked through the last few days of him being the leading wagon, its time for a change of pace.

unvote, vote: techno

i would also be happy with a thomith vote here, but i think techno is more likely to hit scum. dt should put his money where is mouth is and join me here.

with all the hypothetical scumpairs i'm being included in you'd think someone would try to point out some way that i'm scummy on my own. oh, whats that? no one can? ok, moving on then.

[Thomith]

i would also be happy with a thomith vote here, but i think techno is more likely to hit scum.

ummm.... what?

[Thomith]

VOTE: roflcopter
did i just read a scumslip?

[absta101]

ISO continued...

Phenenas

His 3 posts contain no useful information.

roflcopter

Asks a lot of questions which can help move the game forward. I'm not liking post #44 though.
In post #44, he says,

"if he's scum, arugula is too. seacore is town."

(the 'he' rofl is referring to is Milk)
After this, he says

"discuss"

Couldn't you have explained it to us? (Can you explain how you came to that conclusion now as well).
I'm finding it hard to understand why you would want us to discuss something that has zero basis.
Generally it isn't helpful to name 'scum teams' before we have a scum flip. Can we all stop trying to find teams now?

In post #37, he says

"what do you think of the fact that coffee didn't follow up his own argument with a vote?"

Why didn't you just tell us what YOU thought? I wouldn't say this is you being cautious but someone could have argued that.

Could you explain why you only asked questions to a few members in post #82. Also, why weren't your questions all the same (most of them were)?

I'm not sure what to think of rofl atm. I'll wait untill I get some responses from him.

Seacore

Other than his interactions with Aragula, seacore is looking good. There's not much to see in his ISO. Like with Aragula, my views here won't be reliable due to small amounts of content for me to analyse.
I'm getting town vibes from him. He goes to the trouble of reading up on Thom's early games to get a more substantial read on him. Just too make sure of his claims in post #9, I might have to read the earlier games as well. I'm sick right now so I doubt I will.

SensFan

Post #87 he says,

"I doubt there's much to gain about alignments from either the Milk/Seacore or the Arugula/Seacore spats. The fact that Seacore is common to both might be relevant, though."

In my first game (this is my joint 2nd as I have 3 ongoing games) the player who hinted, like you did here, turned out to be scum. Where did 'Milk/Seacore' and 'Arugula/Seacore' even come from anyway?

Same with seacore/Aragula, need more posts from you. Maybe you could explain why you chose those two as town reads and give us some of your views on who you think is scum.

To be continued. When I feel like it.

[absta101]

VOTE: roflcopter
did i just read a scumslip?

Tell us, what do you see?

[Thomith]

read the quote i quoted, it seems extremely off to me.

[absta101]

Also I forgot to say. I think sensfan might be scum based on my read of him.

[absta101]

read the quote i quoted, it seems extremely off to me.

I'm starting to sense OMGUS from your vote.
What about the quote seems off?

[Thomith]

i would also be happy with a thomith vote here,

but i think techno is more likely to hit scum

.

ummm.... what?

but i think techno is

more likely to hit scum