Open 402 -- Hard Boiled (Game Over!)

[LlamaFluff]

@Techno - I think mod is using the countdown feature (I prefer old school) of deadline, it keeps updating. So deadline is the 8th or so. Still time.

@DCL - Beauty of alliances is that they can take more VI players along and still be strong because it just creates power moves even if scum get on the outskirts of them since they have little to no sway over what goes on with the core of the votes. My Kass in alliance read is due to the amount of reads that are formed with Kass-town in mind from quite a few players, which suggests that Kass is probably town due to very few scum being wise enough to know to take a small misread like that nad run with it. Calculated risk. Im not going to really give any credit to much Kass says, but I think they are town for the way they have been treated.

@andrew - Tracker/Vig is taking tracker or they are playing against their win condition essentially at this point since they are basically removing a cop (hider) from the game and creating a miller in themselves. Also you list Thomith and Venmar as scum. Which is more likely to be scum and why?

[BK201]

I'm down with LF, DCL, and myself in the alliance.

[Thomith]

rasp being on the wagon does give me a few doubts, but i still feel iffy on the kass thing and still think at least one person that jumped on him is likely scum.

[Nachomamma8]

I do like that Venmar is still doing RVS, this does mitigate some of my concern over the bad RQS questions. Still consider it slightly scummy.

While I hate RQS with a fiery burning passion and don't actually remember the last time I actually answered one, I don't necessarily believe the people presenting them are scummy. Just misguided.

A lot of things to dislike here. First, voting someone for "intentionally not contributing enough to the game" at the page 2 is seriously lame. Feels like nacho is stretching to find a reason to vote for someone. Don't like this at all.

Why not?

Don't like the town read on venmar, doesn't make sense at all, not with what I've seen from venmar.
I can slightly understand the scum read on thomith, however like the town read on venmar it is rather weak.

I don't feel like Venmar's intention was to sidestep the questions like you do. He seemed confused, and the frustration and "if you want to go on with mindless voting, go ahead my friend." was pretty damn genuine to me. Also, yes. Both reads were weak. It was page 2, after all.

interesting.

I hate that word. What does it mean?

FINALLY. Venmar actually acknowledges that the way his RQS was done might be the problem, not the fact that he did RQS. Took him long enough.

Why do you think he admitted it after sidestepping it so long?

[Arugula]

@DCL

Very good summary. I would only like to address that I would rather a Thomith lynch, but BW is what the alliance wants and he is my number 2 lynch.

[DCLXVI]

I like Venmar and would support adding him to the alliance.

NO NO NO NO NO, I have a decent scum-read on venmar.

Raspberry hasn't been useful at all so far. Him denying to really say anything because he doesn't have anything to explain sounds scummy. Basically, not willing to help us in any way and not contributing is anti-town.

Thank-you captain obvious. The same could be said of Kass, Bw and

@DCL - Beauty of alliances is that they can take more VI players along and still be strong because it just creates power moves even if scum get on the outskirts of them since they have little to no sway over what goes on with the core of the votes. My Kass in alliance read is due to the amount of reads that are formed with Kass-town in mind from quite a few players, which suggests that Kass is probably town due to very few scum being wise enough to know to take a small misread like that nad run with it. Calculated risk. Im not going to really give any credit to much Kass says, but I think they are town for the way they have been treated.

Eh, I'm generally against alliances. If scum were to be at the core of one....I think it would be absolutely devastating for town, and I can't say I like all the people that are kind of in this alliance.

I'm fine with you, (the fact that I have a stronger town read on you does nullify some of my concerns over this)
I'm ok with techno
I'm not too sure about nacho, I was ok with him in my catchup, but then he shows up and says he wants venmar in, who I consider scum...I'm kinda iffy on his judgement.

BK has to be in, that is pretty much duh obvious.

Kass should not be in. Just no...I don't like the idea of having trolls considered part of any alliance, I understand that you say you aren't going to be giving much credit to Kass' posts but my read on kass is pretty much null at this point (will be explained later) I just don't think she has achieved obvious town status.

I'm mostly fine with it for now, but yeah we will see how this goes.

[DCLXVI]

I do like that Venmar is still doing RVS, this does mitigate some of my concern over the bad RQS questions. Still consider it slightly scummy.

While I hate RQS with a fiery burning passion and don't actually remember the last time I actually answered one, I don't necessarily believe the people presenting them are scummy. Just misguided.

I believe I emphasized the hell out of this in my catchup.

I do not believe that RQS in general is scummy. Someone doing it is a null tell.

My problem with ven is NOT that he did RQS, it is that he RQS questions were helpful to scum and not helpful to town. I was trying very hard to make that clear.

A lot of things to dislike here. First, voting someone for "intentionally not contributing enough to the game" at the page 2 is seriously lame. Feels like nacho is stretching to find a reason to vote for someone. Don't like this at all.

Why not?

Because you had other scum reads that were better than a (oh he isn't posting enough by page two) scum read. I think a thomith vote would have been better justified at that point.

DCL wrote:Don't like the town read on venmar, doesn't make sense at all, not with what I've seen from venmar. I can slightly understand the scum read on thomith, however like the town read on venmar it is rather weak.

I don't feel like Venmar's intention was to sidestep the questions like you do. He seemed confused, and the frustration and "if you want to go on with mindless voting, go ahead my friend." was pretty damn genuine to me. Also, yes. Both reads were weak. It was page 2, after all.

I feel it was because the points against him were blatantly obvious (at least to me.) And he just wouldn't address them.

Yes they were weak because it was page two, I guess my point was more that it was rather pointless to be having reads out like that since they were weak. I don't expect people to have strong reads at the end of page two.

interesting.

I hate that word. What does it mean?

I'm not sure, probably nothing, I usually try to avoid filler words like it. (just checked catchup post, only used it four times. so not too bad)

DCL wrote:FINALLY. Venmar actually acknowledges that the way his RQS was done might be the problem, not the fact that he did RQS. Took him long enough.

Why do you think he admitted it after sidestepping it so long?

I'll address that later in my venmar case.

[BK201]

rasp being on the wagon does give me a few doubts, but i still feel iffy on the kass thing and still think at least one person that jumped on him is likely scum.

You're still going on about that? How about you commit to it, break down who was on the wagon, and tell us who is likely scum. Just sound like lazy scum otherwise.

[BK201]

VOTE: Thomith

DCL wrote

"

post 73

, Thomith Another post from Thomith that I do not like, don't like how he is tying kass's alignment to a llama/bk flip. In his owns words Thomith said that scum will jump on kass regardless of whether kass is town or scum because of how kass plays. So if the previous thomith statement is to be believed, then the alignment of kass' accusers should not affect a read on kass..."

post 76

, Thomith Previously thomith has said that kass acts the same regardless of alignment and that scum generally jump on kass regardless of kass' alignment. So why now is kass' alignment being tide to her attackers? It is like thomith has completely forgotten his meta defense of kass.

post 111

, Thomith I haven't see venmar say that he think kass is town, all venmar is doing is arguing against a quicklynch based on meta. Thomith again appears to be stretching the facts to find someone to be scummy. What is funny is that venmar has done legit scummy things but thomith isn't talking about those.

[BK201]

Honestly I should have voted Thomith before, but I was put off by Kass+Rasberry back to back vote on him.

[DCLXVI]

VOTE: Thomith

QFT

VOTE: Thomith

was planning on waiting till I finished the case on him to vote him, but I'm just going to go ahead and put my vote where it needs to be.

[TeChNoWC]

VOTE: Thomith

DCL wrote

"

post 73

, Thomith Another post from Thomith that I do not like, don't like how he is tying kass's alignment to a llama/bk flip. In his owns words Thomith said that scum will jump on kass regardless of whether kass is town or scum because of how kass plays. So if the previous thomith statement is to be believed, then the alignment of kass' accusers should not affect a read on kass..."

post 76

, Thomith Previously thomith has said that kass acts the same regardless of alignment and that scum generally jump on kass regardless of kass' alignment. So why now is kass' alignment being tide to her attackers? It is like thomith has completely forgotten his meta defense of kass.

post 111

, Thomith I haven't see venmar say that he think kass is town, all venmar is doing is arguing against a quicklynch based on meta. Thomith again appears to be stretching the facts to find someone to be scummy. What is funny is that venmar has done legit scummy things but thomith isn't talking about those.

Thomith's logic definitely doesn't add up, and what bugs me most is his acceptance of this fact, yet he continues to argue the point, yet with less vigour. Post 111 Thomith basically contradicts himself.

It's either just bad logic or scum caught stumbling, but my gut tells me the latter.

Vote: Thomith

I am pretty confident with either lynch now, but a Thomith lynch might be better at this stage to give Burke more time to respond. Still, I think Burke is likely scum.

DCL I didn't see any response of yours to my post, what do you think of Burke? Do you think he is scum? You didn't seem to like the case on him terribly much.

[TeChNoWC]

Rasberry would be my third scumread. He's done no scumhunting, lurks like buggery and gives poor reasoning for his votes.

Also, his 'pressure' vote on Thomith worries me when when his read is 'neutral to leaning scum' and his reasoning for his vote on Venmar is gut, but he doesn't state Thomith as simply a guttell, alluding to the fact he has reasoning but hasn't provided it; potential bussing tactic if Thomith is scum as I presume, classic distancing. Wants to 'put pressure' on Thomith, but no reasoning as to why he is a scumread. He then defends himself by saying 'its day one, votes don't matter', giving him an excuse to throw votes around free of suspicion, eg so he can bandwagon a mislynch when he wants.

I may be presuming too much without a Thomith flip, but it irks me nonetheless.

[DCLXVI]

I am pretty confident with either lynch now, but a Thomith lynch might be better at this stage to give Burke more time to respond. Still, I think Burke is likely scum.

DCL I didn't see any response of yours to my post, what do you think of Burke? Do you think he is scum? You didn't seem to like the case on him terribly much.

Was going to do it with my reads. I'll have those done tomorrow afternoon ish.

But here is what I'm thinking of them so far.

BW, kass, raspberry are all trolls, (lowman isn't that great either, I'd say he qualifies as an active lurker up until his v/la)

The problem is that this seems to be a consistent playstyle for them. I have a hard time reading these sorts of players. Their playstyle is inherently anti-town, but it can't be used against them completely because that is how they play as town. I think we are better off not lynching them until we get some other flips and see if we can tie them, or not tie them with other known players.

As their play is anti-town, I wouldn't be opposed to any of their lynches as it will not be beneficial to town to have these players around come lylo. (thinking ahead to the future.)

However, I have no clue as to their alignment which is why I'd rather go after a player like thomith or venmar, who are probably both more likely to be scum as I can get a better read on them.

[LlamaFluff]

@Techno - If BwB was around, would you prefer his lynch or Thomiths?

Vote Thomith

Both this lynch and BwB are great ones to persue.

[Venmar]

I still think Thomith is probably a better lynch than Burke

As i said.

Vote: Thomith

[Arugula]

How many votes is that? I will wait for a vote count before I place my vote because I don't want to hammer or put him at L-1 so a troll can hammer.

But yeah, Thomith is the best lynch.

[Venmar]

I believe that is 5 votes. It is 7 to lynch so Thomith is currently at L-2.

[Arugula]

Alright. I have a feeling Kass, rasp, or BW will hammer so I won't vote yet. Should Thomith claim or what?

[TeChNoWC]

I am pretty confident with either lynch now, but a Thomith lynch might be better at this stage to give Burke more time to respond. Still, I think Burke is likely scum.

DCL I didn't see any response of yours to my post, what do you think of Burke? Do you think he is scum? You didn't seem to like the case on him terribly much.

Was going to do it with my reads. I'll have those done tomorrow afternoon ish.

But here is what I'm thinking of them so far.

BW, kass, raspberry are all trolls, (lowman isn't that great either, I'd say he qualifies as an active lurker up until his v/la)

The problem is that this seems to be a consistent playstyle for them. I have a hard time reading these sorts of players. Their playstyle is inherently anti-town, but it can't be used against them completely because that is how they play as town. I think we are better off not lynching them until we get some other flips and see if we can tie them, or not tie them with other known players.

As their play is anti-town, I wouldn't be opposed to any of their lynches as it will not be beneficial to town to have these players around come lylo. (thinking ahead to the future.)

However, I have no clue as to their alignment which is why I'd rather go after a player like thomith or venmar, who are probably both more likely to be scum as I can get a better read on them.

This is a good point. Lowman is lurkerish in other games I have seen, so it doesn't really get my scumdar going. If anyone has meta on raspberry and Burke with confirmed roles that would be good though, I haven't seen any other games they have played. Still though, I want to try and hit scum rather than play the tactic 'well, they are likely scum, and even if not we are getting rid of anti-town townies'. Nothing necessarily wrong with this reasoning, but meta that reveals one or the other tends to play less lurkerish as town is a better tell than taking more risks. If meta suggests they are just being anti-town, I wouldn't be lynching them. At the end of the day, we are looking for scum, not bad town.

@Techno - If BwB was around, would you prefer his lynch or Thomiths?

Vote Thomith

Both this lynch and BwB are great ones to persue.

If BwB was around it would depend on his input, but yes it does make me somewhat hesitant to lynch him, but not greatly. As I said before, if he was around, I doubt his input levels would increase anyway. I'm pretty happy with either a Burke or Thomith lynch, they both seem scum to me. Maybe leaning ever so slightly towards Thomith, merely because his tells seem more likely to be scum and less likely to be just anti-town.

@Arugula: Keep him at L-2 for now, and let him give a defense before a claim. I want to hear from him before anything else.

[TeChNoWC]

Alright. I have a feeling Kass, rasp, or BW will hammer so I won't vote yet. Should Thomith claim or what?

Rereading this post I see a problem with it.

Tell me, what are your reads on Kass, rasp and Bw?

Didn't you have a scumread on Burke?

If so, why would you 'have a feeling' he would hammer if you also think Thomith is scum?

It's one thing to think Thomith MIGHT be a mislynch, but you are almost suggesting you think it is.

[LowMan]

Vote: Thomith

[LowMan]

bleh stupid tags..

VOTE: Thomith

[LlamaFluff]

unvote

To prevent shennanigans.

[TeChNoWC]

bleh stupid tags..

VOTE: Thomith

unvote

To prevent shennanigans.

-_-

thankyou Llama.