New York 152 Niiightless Game Over!

[Psyche]

No, you are wrong.

[Hiraki]

ok thanks come again

[Pine]

Our metas are based on experience and subjective, holistic assessments. Yours are based on document searches of a particular phrase from a very few games that you didn't bother to read in context.

Ergo, your statistics are invalid, while assessments from people who've played a dozen and more actual, full games with one another will be listened to.

[Psyche]

Oh I bet you think you're soo cool.

But yeah, no more stressing. I'm going to focus on my other games now. And my studies. More data, more accuracy.

And hopefully more persuasiveness. I'm thinking that in the future, even though my reads eith have an epistemological basis in my data, I could just present my tells in a way that fits the site's norms. I'm pretty sure my accusation of Pine would've been more successful if instead of referring to my data (which Pine made a total red herring of) I just did what everyone else does when performing a meta.

And for BK, I could've just explained without reference to statistics that his accusation of Mogri was scummy. I've gotta put this stuff into context so I can apply my stats intelligently.

Yeah, that sounds good.

[Psyche]

Our metas are based on experience and subjective, holistic assessments. Yours are based on document searches of a particular phrase from a very few games that you didn't bother to read in context.

Ergo, your statistics are invalid, while assessments from people who've played a dozen and more actual, full games with one another will be listened to.

Yeah, yeah. You're all that and my hours spent on data collection was a waste of time. Whatever.

I did read all accusations in context before recording them, by the way. A favorite phrase of yours was, "Keep flailing, scum!" And a lot of people's. I bet it made them feel like total baddasses.

[Pine]

Hours? That's it? Yes, that does indeed pale in comparison to months or years of playing thousands of pages of actual games. You're trying to substitute cleverness for experience, and failing.

[Psyche]

And it's not a "very few" games. I've ended up studying accusations of flailing in every Large Normal that has ever occurred. It just so happens that the vast majority of those occurred recently — within the past 4 years.

Misrep number 6 or 7, by the way.

[Psyche]

Hours? That's it? Yes, that does indeed pale in comparison to months or years of playing thousands of pages of actual games. You're trying to substitute cleverness for experience, and failing.

Hey, you show me that your experience is paying off, and I'll submit. What I do know is that you're voting for town right now. Of course, you're scum, so I suppose that is the goal.

And remember what I said earlier about paying serious attention to the phail that went into your mislynch.

[Psyche]

(that last part was @everyone)

[Ythan]

Vote Count

6 Psyche (Hiraki, inte, CF Riot, BK201, D3f3nd3r, Pine)

L-1

5 BK201 (Matias, UberNinja, petapan, noraaa, Psyche)
0 UberNinja
0 Matias
0 CF Riot
0 inte
0 Pine
0 noraaa
0 petapan
0 D3f3nd3r
0 crypto
0 Hiraki

1 Not Voting (crypto)

7 to lynch
Deadline June 4th

[noraaa]

Psyche, I really think you should reevaluate how you play. Meta isn't the end-all and "scumtells" aren't perfect indicators. Also you're acting really.. well. Teenagery right now. Full of yourself. Just play THIS game as long as you're in it, defend yourself and if you can't convince us someone's scum then try another angle. Don't just keep whining the same story over and over and then give up, and talk to yourself about what you'd do differently next time. Do it THIS time.

If you're town, well then convince us.

[inte]

just to re-iterate what noraaa said, meta is pretty poop when it comes to certainty about someones play

take me for example, in the 7 or so games i've played on the site i'm pretty sure theres nothing solidly meta about my play other than i don't like to capitalize

i realize how much anecdotal evidence is relevant tho

[UberNinja]

Guys, am I seriously the only one who sees Pine for what he obviously is?

No, you are not.

And fuck, you D3f3nder, my meta stats are gold and I don't care enough about this game to make so dumb a promise.

Guys, I am town. My stats are fine. You complain about them not being a big enough sample size, but seriously —

how big are the sample sizes that lead you to draw your OWN conclusions about Mafia?

. My studies show that, a lot of the time, people don't know what the hell a scumtell is. They run on intuition and accuse players of doing 'scummy' things that aren't even scummy!

My studies show that Pine as scum OFTEN opportunistically makes spurious accusations to get town lynched. 6/7 times that he's use'd the meaningless flail accusation in a Large Normal, he's been scum! He made the same spurious crap in this game against Mogri. He's been very consistent in his meta, and this game is a continuation. Pine is scum.

We are misguided, and I've made the first step to finding out just what the right way to guide oneself is. I don't know why you give so much more clout to your own intuitive views on what a scumtell is even after I've beem able to collect something so much more substantial. Don't you see that you may quite possibly be completely wrong about how the game works? Can't you see the self-doubt that motivates my behavior?

Well fuck this. I've given a good hard try. I even reread the thread and got back into the game. Scum can have it. I'll remember not to lurk in future games, because that's somehow scummy even when it isn't.

The rest of this post positively bleeds town.

Whoever's on the Psyche wagon, I highly recommend getting off.

[UberNinja]

Psyche, I really think you should reevaluate how you play. Meta isn't the end-all and "scumtells" aren't perfect indicators. Also you're acting really.. well. Teenagery right now. Full of yourself. Just play THIS game as long as you're in it, defend yourself and if you can't convince us someone's scum then try another angle. Don't just keep whining the same story over and over and then give up, and talk to yourself about what you'd do differently next time. Do it THIS time.

If you're town, well then convince us.

THIS IS THE FUCKING CONDESCENDING ATTITUDE I AM TALKING ABOUT WHEN IT COMES TO NORAAA AND PEOPLE SHE THINKS ARE ALREADY AS GOOD AS LYNCHED

THIS, RIGHT HERE

[noraaa]

So calling someone full of themselves is condescending?

Also how do I think he's "as good as lynched?" I'm not voting for him AND I implored him multiple times to get back in the game.


Get over yourself.

[noraaa]

If you don't see a pouting tantrum in his last few posts then you're just blind.

[UberNinja]

That's a better fucking case than the "case" on Psyche.

Plus my nagging gut feel that Psyche is town.

This is completely incongruous with your previous statements.

Unvote
Vote: UberNinja

I feel good about this.

Unvote
Vote: Psyche

Nah. As much as my suspicion of UberNinja is peaking, it doesn't make sense to abandon a wagon on someone that's at least as likely to be scum. UberNinja tomorrow.

Ok, Pine, let's talk about these posts.

a) no it's not completely incongruous

. my scum read on psyche had been weakening as my scum read on noraaa, you and BK strengthened.

I'm less sure on Psyche-scum as I have been. I prefer noraaa.

*

than

I have been.

b) they're fruitless in terms of votes

because you switch from one wagon onto another, and then back onto the first. this is called scum posturing.

why? because it's scum throwing their weight around so other people will take notice of what they're saying (using their vote and voice to do one thing, but then switching back to voting the other direction while only using their voice to point... but there's still 2 votes in there so people will think it's a big deal and pay attention for a split second.

also because it changes the vote counts and the wagon analysis, moving you from whatever spot you were on the wagon before to a later spot on the wagon.

c) this is the best and most juicy one.

if you think i'm scum for changing my opinion on psyche, then let's study what the scum-motivated benefit of that could be:

either:
1. either i know he's town and i've been pushing for his lynch all game, only to jump off the bandwagon like it's hot as soon as it looks like he's going to be lynched, so that I won't be on a mislynch (MEANING I AM SCUM AND HE IS TOWN)

or:
2. i am not sure (BEING TOWN) and i've been pushing on him all game because of stupid shit he's been saying, but actually have some deep-seated doubts about his alignment, and want to lynch someone for something WAY SCUMMIER than psyche but am less sure on psyche (MEANING I AM TOWN AND HE IS TOWN)

in other words, there IS no hypothetical scum-motivation or benefit for me, as scum, to jump off the wagon and start shunning it like the plague.

and in BOTH of those scenarios, Psyche is town. which means you're jumping off a town wagon to someone you "think is scum", and then jumping back on the town wagon because a vote on me is completely useless because the Psyche wagon is far more viable at this point for you and your little scum friends.

and then of course the obvious...

d), you just want to stay on a counter-wagon to your scum buddy BK

....

just like he was on every counter-wagon to redFF's lynch

you're a lot more transparent than you think, buddy






crypto, cf riot, this guy. lynch the fuck out of him if i ever die at any point.

[Pine]

So, let me get this straight...you think I'm buddies with BK, who you think was buddies with RedFF...so you're suggesting that in a sixteen-player game, we have two scumteams of three each, making the starting numbers 10 v 3 v 3?

Unlikely. Try again.

[noraaa]

oh, do tell me your scum read on me. Is it based entirely on my supposed attitude, or on those voting patterns that you made up, which I replied to ages ago and repeatedly asked you to respond to because you voted nearly the exact same way yet called me scum for voting that way! (Wow and you've NEVER ONCE EVEN ADDRESSED THAT POINT gee I wonder why)

I answer everything you send my way. Grow up and hunt for scum, instead of tunnelling up my ass because you think I'm pompous. If anyone in this game is a jerk it's you. And unless this is your first game, let me remind you that even if I had been being a twat, attitude has nothing to do with alignment. If it did, I'd have voted you days upon days ago for your severely poor one.



And my god are you asserting that I'm one of the ones that change my votes often? hahahahaha you don't even read half my posts, or reply to me except with snippy bullshit (but I have the attitude), yet you want me dead. Be careful or I'll jump off BK and once I vote you I won't let go. You need to respond to that post of mine that I quoted about three times back a day or so ago, and you need to fucking do it now. Unless you have a really good reason why not to? Since, it's pretty much that and my supposed condescending attitude that have been all I've heard from you.

tl, dr: get off my nuts and fucking give a real case on me or shut the fuck up. After you reply to my nice post that laid out why your "case" on me was fucking retarded, of course.

[noraaa]

PS that's what attitude looks like.

[UberNinja]

noraaa, <3

So, let me get this straight...you think I'm buddies with BK, who you think was buddies with RedFF...so you're suggesting that in a sixteen-player game, we have two scumteams of three each, making the starting numbers 10 v 3 v 3?

Unlikely. Try again.

I never said anything of the sort. I don't even know if there's more than one scum "team" per se, even though "Blue Mafia Goon" seems to suggest it.

Consider:

Also, what are the odds that there is actually only one scum team and Ythan is trolling us?

I'd say extremely low based on just about everything I know about Mafia, this site, and Ythan.

lolol Ythan -would- do that, and he would laugh all the way to endgame over it, too. Which is not to say he DID do that, but that you don't know his ways as well as you might think you do. When I saw the blue team thing I literally immediately wondered how many factions, if any, there were.

And I assume noraaa has more experience than Ythan, so I took that into account.

...

But I'm interested, why does 10-3-3 seem unlikely to you? That seems pretty balanced to me.

[noraaa]

Um I based my statement on knowing Ythan's personality, by the way.

PS nice of you to completely ignore my post again.

unvote vote UN Let's see which one of us is scum.

[noraaa]

unvote vote UN

ahem, fancy and such.

[Matias]

This psyche stubbornness just screams town. This is a dumb wagon,

[BK201]

does UN always play like this as town? if so just stay on psyche or myself.