Mini 1337 - Elite Mafia (Game Over)

[Thomith]

ice is probably my second or third scum read, their drifting around attitude of sometimes content sometimes not seems weird, their meta suggests this is how they play as town however i have only read town games so i dont know how they play as scum.

absta is bleh, and i need to keep an eye on the wagon to get a final read.

[IceGuy]

it wasn't a quickhammer. let me give you a summary of what more discussion yesterday would have looked like.

everyone: sens, claim or i will hammer you
sens: no. there is no reason why i should claim. blah blah blah.
somebody: hammertime

Except for the actual discussion that was happening regarding other suspects.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

I must be crazy for thinking Ice is town.
VOTE: Uberninja
Yeah I like this vote

[TeChNoWC]

I must be crazy for thinking Ice is town.
VOTE: Uberninja
Yeah I like this vote

Why do you think UN is scum?

[Junpei]

Absta today iceman tomorrow

I thought Iceguy was scum to you Elmo?

[Elmo TeH AzN]

nonononononono

absta must go

scum's not gonna kill him if he's town

if he's in mylo he'll fuck us all

he goes today

Oh, it's much more fun to watch, definitely.

Probably not as fun as scum's probably having if he really IS derptown.
But I'm willing to run that risk just for the hell of it. This is... glorious.

@HumblePoirot... not sure if srs... if actually srs, then

And if you're that worried about people MAKING POSTS ON A FORUM, then perhaps you should make more yourself. Complaining about it is going to get you exactly fucking NOWHERE.

I'll cede you that point. Derpscum it is.

[snifit]

Votecount 2.3

roflcopter (L-6) -

Thomith

Arugula (0) -

TeChNoWC (L-6) -

Seacore

Thomith (0) -

Junpei (0) -

Seacore (0) -

UberNinja (L-6) -

ElmoTehAzN

DTMaster (0) -

Humble Poirot (0) -

absta101 (L-5) -

UberNinja, IceGuy

Elmo Teh AzN (0) -

IceGuy (L-4) -

Junpei, roflcopter, Arugula

Not Voting: TeChNoWC, DTMaster, Humble Poirot, absta101

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Deadline is Saturday, June 23rd at 2 PM (GMT-7).

[Seacore]

Oh my god. I have explained why that was not a quick hammer. Discussion on other suspects is pointless when the day's lynch has been decided, there's no effective pressure. We're better to get the day and night over with and start the discussion with more info.

[IceGuy]

Oh my god. I have explained why that was not a quick hammer. Discussion on other suspects is pointless when the day's lynch has been decided, there's no effective pressure. We're better to get the day and night over with and start the discussion with more info.

No. It's better to have some more discussion and then have the (inevitable) lynch. There is no point in denying town information that could have come from the discussion.

[Junpei]

So by Iceguys' logic we should never lynch until the hour of deadline.

Also post 499...

[UberNinja]

nonononononono

absta must go

scum's not gonna kill him if he's town

if he's in mylo he'll fuck us all

he goes today

[IceGuy]

So by Iceguys' logic we should never lynch until the hour of deadline.

...as long as there's still a discussion running.

[roflcopter]

lets quicklynch iceguy and have all his arguments ironically proven wrong when he flips scum

[UberNinja]

let's not and say we did

[Seacore]

Discussion needs to be fruitful. The discussion happening yesterday was not fruitful.

For the record, i'm willing to lynch techno, arugula and iceguy today.

[Humble Poirot]

Tl,Dr: IceGuy is scum. Read this and vote him. Or just vote him.

-

Vote IceGuy

(Mixed up the name because of UberNinja and the fact that I've played with IceNinja before)

- IceGuy comes out of the blue and absolutely states that SensFan is obviously town (no reason given). Votes Techno.
- He claims that his replacee (MormonCoffee) is likely town because he was active .
- Pretends absta comes out of the blue and votes SensFan after 3 days of absence.
- 275When called upon that fact, falsely states SensFan's vote wasn't out of the blue.
- in 278 he avoids quoting his response and just points to a number to support what he's saying. If you follow the links, his views are not supported in any way.

- This is were the fun part starts.
I call him on his falsehoods and absurd SensFan "defense" in 357

Tl,Dr:

- SensFan must claim or be hammered. He can't keep buying time in this manner.

-

I WILL hammer SensFan if he doesn't claim in his next post.

- IceGuy must explain why SensFan is "pretty obviously town" and stop lying in order to defend him
- Ignoring UberNinja's posts for now to avoid confusion.
-

FoS IceGuy

. Outright lies to defend SensFan (no town motivation for his interpretations).
- If anyone doubts that SensFan is making things up read his iso

[...]

@IceGuy:

Explain your conclusions. And, most of all, explain the bold claim that SensFan is obviously town. There's no way on earth anyone would believe that. Not even SensFan would dare suggest it.

You're outright lying in your defense of SensFan. You quote 109 and 231 as proof that SensFan's vote didn't come out of the blue and neither prove anything. But you don't link to them, you don't quote them. You just put the numbers there in hopes that no one will check.

Again, I never said it wouldn't be significant at some point; just that I don't have anything to say about it right now. As for the town reads, I was asked for the people I thought were most likely to be Town. I never said I have good Town reads- I don't.

Nothing here. He explicitly refuses to explain why is significant.
Conveniently leaves an open door for future interpretations (which he didn't provide anyway, when he voted Seacore).

Seacore is my top scumread.
Milk is second.

This post happens AFTER the 3 DAY ABSENCE. So it DOES come out of the blue.
He votes later that day. It's his first scumread declaration (he provides no reasoning behind it).

Do you honestly think TeChNoWC and DTMaster are bussing each other? Have you read how focus on both players started?

I'm just curious about this: why did you say "the fuck" in response to the quote in my post 30?

From that point, probably knowing his position on SensFan is absolutely
indefensible (there's no reason for it other than looking town by opposing what
he knows to be a mislynch) he proceeds to ignore me

in 362 he doesn't acknowledge my post, 3 posts above his.

- I call him out in 363 (right after).
- Ignored again in 367
- I write in large bolded letters, with a link to my post with questions, asking him if he is blind.
- He replies with No. Clearly enjoying the fact that he has acknowledged my presence without answering my questions.
- Regarding the altered quote, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Weird mistakes can happen.
- He ignores me again after 381 where I make clear that he's ignoring my questions and that I will vote him next day for fabricating reasons.
- Says he wants to start a counter-wagon in a one-liner with no accusations towards absta or developments on why TechnoWC is scum. This is part of the tactic to try to look town by avoiding the SensFan lynch but notice how

he doesn't seriously try to disrupt SensFan's wagon or convince people to vote someone else, it's just for show.

There's a number of posts after that where I make my thoughts towards IceGuy clear:

IceGuy's actions are incredibly scummy regardless of alignment. He has strongly challenged SensFan being scum without providing any credible reasons. He fabricated the ones he gave and hasn't provided decent cases on his alleged alternatives.

And that doesn't even begin to explain his complete avoidance of my posts.

He seems to only be looking to destabilize the game.

@TeChNoWC: Regardless of SensFan's alignment IceGuy's actions are scummy. He has no reason to defend SensFan with made up arguments (which I pointed out in my posts) and keep trying to debunk his waggon. He has no reason to ignore me. No reason as town, that is.

This is very important. You must love a thought process that involves a scummy defense as scum ONLY if that person flips scum. Because you knew you were safe from that.
- IceGuy keeps ignoring me in 414 and in 422 where he acts completely sure that SensFan's lynch is a mislynch and pretends it was a quick-hammer.

IceGuy has also tried to taint both DTMaster and TeChNoWC with accusations of bussing without developing.

SensFan, with his scummyness and anti-town attitude was going to get lynched so scum tries to get town points by pretending to be the concerned townie who's against the mislynch. In fact, scum is ok with the lynch but won't push it because it's going to happen.

IceGuy is scum. There's little question about it.

Some additional facts from d2:
It's quite funny he still tries to act as if I don't exist and asks me "what case".
Also, this

Except for me challenging the leading lynch and identifying a bunch of suspects, generally known as "scumhunting".

This completely enhances what he really did. Read this post. Read his ISO. To be crude, it's complete bullshit.

Notice how only today, when he can't absolutely do anything to save SensFan, does he provide disputable reasoning to say SensFan is town.

I'm just curious about this: why did you say "the fuck" in response to the quote in post 30?
Because Poirot suggested taking away a mean of scumhunting away from town.

Oh my. This is so bad. I say people shouldn't spam and suddenly I'm "taking a mean of scumhunting from town".

The guy should be a politician.

I must say I lost fervor when I noticed the lynch was inevitable. I tried challenging people, but when everybody is dead-set about lynching somebody the only thing you can do is watch and use the information you're gathering for next day's scumhunting.

All this "info gathering" speeches are nice but quite false. We gained nothing from a dragged D1 full of UberNinja spam and nonsense chatter.

From all your day 2 posts, I see no evidence of alleged gathered info from d1 to justify your lack of interest in actively trying (with reasons) to lynch someone and avoid SensFan's lynch.

He Keeps mischaracterizing the SensFan lynch as just a quick mislynch and quickhammer when the player was clearly refusing to claim and had been warned several times.

And now tries to smear the whole wagon on him with an assorted list of unsupported smears.

I hope everyone will vote him until he can no longer ignore the challenges against his very scummy behavior.

Lastly, after he is lynched and flips scum (I'm quite sure of this). Don't forget that scum busses. Don't just think that scum defends each other and attacks town. Sometimes scum will, even from very early in the game, bus a partner and defend a town player. Just keep it in mind.

[Humble Poirot]

As for the rest of the game.

- Absta can definitely be scum. But I'm way more confident that IceGuy is.
- @Seacore: Thoughts on IceGuy?
- @Seacore, have you read my points concering TechnoWC? Why are they wrong?
- @Aragula: I agree with mentioning RB and not doc is scummy but your conclusion is off.
As others have said. How would scum know if they had been blocked?
- Thomith keeps pushing the same tangent of IceGuy where he tries to make people in the SensFan waggon (specially the last ones) as scummy. This is absurd. Scum had much more to gain from leaving the game drag on forever. Scum had much more to gain from avoiding the position of hammerer. This makes Thomith look quite opportunistic but it can also mean he thinks in really simple terms. I'm still juding this due to his age and posting style.

Anyone else for setup speculation?

Not now. It's more likely to give clues to scum than anything else. Considering the lack of kill.
@Elmo, What's your take on IceGuy and what's your reasoning for UberNinja?
UberNinja's 463 is full of irony
@UberNinja: If you're town, I doubt scum would kill you either. And you're way more of a harm than absta is if he is town. So I'd lynch you any day, with that reasoning.

- @roflcopter, why is absta town and wtf is up with your fastswitches between IceGuy to UberNinja?

- Now that I'm caught up. I'll carefully read UberNinja's mess to discern whether he is just an awful and anti-town spammer or if he is all that AND scum.

I have a couple of other suspicions but will develop on them later after ISO reads and context analysis.

And I'll try and keep my posts short.

[UberNinja]

Not interested in lynching IceGuy in the least.

Much more interested in absta101 dying. Let's do this.

[absta101]

@Humble
VOTE: Iceguy

[TeChNoWC]

@Humble
VOTE: Iceguy

Ditto.

After Humble's post I am pretty convinced Humble is town, and I would say he is my strongest townread at the moment after myself.

IceGuy however, is likely scum. He just screams mildly opposing the Sens wagon for towny points, and taking jabs at the other suspects (such as me and absta) in hopes to quell his wagon.

I'm not sure what it will take to get Ice to reply to Humble's posts, but hopefully this might do the trick.

Vote: IceGuy

IceGuy is now at L-1

Claimtime.

[UberNinja]

Not interested in lynching IceGuy in the least.

Much more interested in absta101 dying. Let's do this.

@Humble
VOTE: Iceguy

what the fuck is wrong with this game

it is NOT 1337

[Thomith]

ok looking back i see why letting the day go on would have been a bad thing, but i dont see a problem of giving a final chance to claim, however ice, did you every give a solid reason as to why sens was town, i missed it if you did.

[TeChNoWC]

Not interested in lynching IceGuy in the least.

Much more interested in absta101 dying. Let's do this.

@Humble
VOTE: Iceguy

what the fuck is wrong with this game

it is NOT 1337

UN, if you think for some reason Ice is town then now is definitely the time to say it, not hound people that disagree.

Absta's lack of input and lurkerism bothers me, and he MIGHT be scum, but I find it far more likely that Ice is. Either way, absta's 'slip', whether a town error or really a scumslip, tells me that if he is truly scum he won't last much longer and will likely slip again. That and no town will be wanting to take him to lylo.

Either way, I'm not comfortable with lynching absta over lurkerism + a nulltell slip.

@Thomith: he didn't. Just lauded it in everyone's faces how Sens was so 'obvitown' the next day, when clearly this wasn't the case.

[IceGuy]

Claim: X-Shot Watcher

No shot used on N1.

[TeChNoWC]

Unvote