Open 402 -- Hard Boiled (Game Over!)

[TeChNoWC]

I'm not understanding how the hider not hiding will help town. If you direct him like that, he is likely to get NKd by scum. Tell me if I am missing something but hider should definitely hide.

DCL, still want your reasoning on why you think I am town/ andrew scum when we were both pushing the Venmar wagon.

[LlamaFluff]

I'm not understanding how the hider not hiding will help town. If you direct him like that, he is likely to get NKd by scum. Tell me if I am missing something but hider should definitely hide.

Hider swings hard in even player setups. If we lose them to a scum target we go down to even numbers and then lose the tracker the following night since they need to claim to catch scum.

No longer hiding forces scum to NK BK, then Venmar, then tracker, then Psych. Thats four kills forced before they can break into killing town for looking town. I like that situation because we are really forcing scum to make moves instead of letting them make moves.

@DCL - Why are you only ending up with andrew-scum as a result of the Venmar wagon?

[DCLXVI]

@tecno, Iwill get to ur question tonight. I'll have time for a longer post then.

[Jackal711]

Unvote, Vote: Thomith

Still my preferred lynch based on current reads.

[DCLXVI]

@techno, I don't recall you pushing a venmar wagon day one at all.

I skimmed through ur iso, but I don't have any search function so finding every spot u mention ven is hard.

[DCLXVI]

This vote jumping by jackal isn't looking pretty btw.

[TeChNoWC]

No, I didn't push it D1. He was a null read for me D1. It was only after some reading during nightphase that I begun to suspect him.

I don't see what the difference though is between 'andrew is scum for a D1 Venmar push' and 'techno is town despite a D2 Venmar push'.

How does that make Andrew scum and me town? How are these even tells?

I don't necessarily find Lowman's vote jumping scummy, but he needs to provide more reasons behind his votes. Lowman, what was your read on me? And what is your read on Thomith?

[LlamaFluff]

@andrew - Why are you rolefishing in 491?

Ive been thinking more... I really dont think Thomith is town with the death we had. Scum easily could have gone with a kill like DCL (who no one really was calling scum) or maybe Techno (who again, no one CALLED scum) and left someone who was in an arguement with andrew (but had him as town) alone. Either way, Arugula was the main supporter of my tell on Thomith, making me think its a little unlikely that Thomith would support that kill when there were quite a few other ones he could have made and taken no flack for.

Im going to say there is a really good chance Thomith is going to be town here, even the subtle and WIFOM things point more too it.

I dont think the "oh I need to claim" post from rasp is the sign of anything but more of a derpy player making a predictable post. Jackal im trying to read, but im still exceedingly happy with the quad I have picked out, although the quick support for Techno suprised me, as does the fact that im apparently the only one who really doesnt like DCL as town. "Try hard" is not a town tell, its a competence tell more than anything else, and just doing it will net you a ton of scum wins.

Oh another fun fact as to why Thomith is probably town. Look at his two wagons.

Thomith (5) -- Arugula, Venmar, LlamaFluff, Kassadin, raspberrylicious
Thomith (5) -- BK201, DCLXVI, TeChNoWC, Lowman, BwBurke

Both serious wagons and ZERO overlap. The only ones that stayed off the Thomith wagon apart from Thomith was andrew and nacho.

Its really rare for a wagon on scum to get that much support throughout the game, especially at two different points. Both appened fairly quickly as well, increasing the chance that they occured on town.

[DCLXVI]

@techno

Ok so abit confused right now...

As far as I can see techno was never pushing a venmar wagon d1 and there wasnt a ven wagon d2.

I'm running out of power so here is the to;dr version.

Basically some things stand out to me right now.

1. I get the feeling that Andrew is agitated by the fact that the venmar wagon doesn't grow. This doesn't feel to me like town being upset scum isn't getting lynched but like scum being worried about not getting a mislynch through.

2. Then we have his response to the no which is a minor scumtell.

3. Don't feel like it is too likely that Andrew and llama are both scum their argument felt genuine in the sense that it was legit so it was either town v town. Or town v scum.

4. Andrews case on venmar was forced and just bad seemed like he was having to reach to fid stuff scummy about venmar.

My iPods going to be dead soon so posting this now.

[andrew94]

Im dont like nacho's vote

nor jackal


and Venmar, the one think i hate more than vi's are nigh confirmed
townies refusing to change their reads. i know your kind, and i wont waste
my time changing your mind. I see you also conpletely ignored my questions
since your 'confirmed town'.



@DCLXVI wait what? where did i sheep jump on the wagon
sir MISREP!!!

I'm not understanding how the hider not hiding will help town. If you direct him like that, he is likely to get NKd by scum. Tell me if I am missing something but hider should definitely hide.

Hider swings hard in even player setups. If we lose them to a scum target we go down to even numbers and then lose the tracker the following night since they need to claim to catch scum.

No longer hiding forces scum to NK BK, then Venmar, then tracker, then Psych. Thats four kills forced before they can break into killing town for looking town. I like that situation because we are really forcing scum to make moves instead of letting them make moves.

@DCL - Why are you only ending up with andrew-scum as a result of the Venmar wagon?

you were the one who suggested the tracker hider plan in the first place.
if the hider died night 1, the tracker would have to out himself.
why did you change your mind


@ llama your post 557 didnt make sense
are u supposed to be saying i think thomith is town?
cos all your points seem to support that

or @ llama are you saying thomith is scummy to you now?



about my post 491, look at your post beforehand and tell me whats wrong with it.

[Venmar]

I take it back.

Vote: Andrew

[TeChNoWC]

@Rasp: Want to explain why you are still voting Venmar? Have you even been reading the thread? Also, can you give your scum + town reads?

@DCL: Will ISO andrew again but I didn't get that feeling. I felt maybe a bit of OMGUS and frustration motivated his push, but I felt it was mostly sincere reads on Venmar and he did give reasons for his push. Still, will check it out again when I get time.

I would like to hear more from Nacho and Rasp. Scum and town reads and why.

[TeChNoWC]

Reads from Jackal and Kass would be helpful too. Plus Jackal, explain your votes.

[Chimera]

Votecount 2.4

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Venmar (1) -- raspberrylicious
TeCHNoWC (1) -- Nachomamma8
raspberrylicious (2) -- Thomith, TeCHNoWC
Thomith (2) -- DCLVXI, Jackal711
andrew94 (1) -- Venmar

Not Voting -- andrew94, BK201, Kassadin, LlamaFluff

Deadline in (expired on 2012-06-23 22:10:00).

Kassadin and DCLXVI are/will be V/LA.

Prodding Thomith.

With finals and such for a lot of you I'll consider deadline extension if needed...

[TeChNoWC]

@Llama: It's still very possible (and even more so with the non-overlapping wagons), that one of the people or even more on the wagons are scum with him, and one or both of andrew and nacho. I don't think this is indicative of Thomith's alignment. Still, mislynches do take off quicker, but the way it died down two times can also suggest scumprotection and bussing. It's all WIFOM at this stage really.

[Thomith]

rasp, why did you even suggest that with little votes on you, you were no where near L-1 and dont see why you brought that up.
btw rasp, who is town and who is scum and why?
jackal do you have any reason for the vote on me, if you do can you provide it so i can have a chance to defend instead of giving me none?

also sorry for not posting, i lost track of time because of exams and such and thought i posted when i didnt.

[DCLXVI]

"@DCLXVI wait what? where did i sheep jump on the wagon SIR misrep"- andrew 559

I did not ever accuse u of sheeping. I didn't even use that word in my post about why I find u scummy.

how about u actually respond to my accusations instead of crying misrep whenever someone suspects u.

[LlamaFluff]

@ llama your post 557 didnt make sense
are u supposed to be saying i think thomith is town?
cos all your points seem to support that

Are you saying you DONT think he is town? Im not even addressing you right there though, but if you think he is scum but have avoided his wagons, yeah let us know.

about my post 491, look at your post beforehand and tell me whats wrong with it.

Nothing.

You gunna keep rolefishing or do you just not get it?

[Thomith]

llama i think andrew was saying the wording of your post was weird compared to the rest:

Ive been thinking more... I really dont think Thomith is town with the death we had.

[LlamaFluff]

I tend to start saying one thing, decide to reword it halfway through and then not always proofread it to see if it makes sense in the end.

Yeah I see you as probably town, VCs and the NK both substantiate that a bit.

[andrew94]

--—-----------------
some other thoughts

Thomith's omgus "gut read" on me was cute.
I don't get the techno wagon at all
Nacho's case on techno is bad, as well as

Andrew sheep jump Ono the wagon.

Will get to that later tonight

why the fuck are there so many lying people in this game.



@llama i dont think you even read your own post 557 that i was referring to,
i was pointing a possible mistake that you made.
you first said that you dont think thomith is town

then you gave all the reasons thomith is town.

The fact that you didnt even bother to go back to your post when i pointed it out,
and just did a standard accusation back at me (when you said i was town earlier)
screams to me that you are scum that just made up some reads and
didnt double check.

[DCLXVI]

@Andrew apologies about that, u obviously did not sheep onto the techno wagon. Typo, jackals name should be there instead as he had just jumped onto the tech wagon b4 that post I wrote.

[LlamaFluff]

The fact that you didnt even bother to go back to your post when i pointed it out,
and just did a standard accusation back at me (when you said i was town earlier)
screams to me that you are scum that just made up some reads and
didnt double check.

I already said, thats just me combining two trains of though "I think Thomith is town" and "I dont think Thomith is scum" poorly because quite often I change what I am planning to say halfway through typing it out. Normally I catch that stuff, but at times I do miss it. It should be obvious what I was trying to say there was. Stop misrepping me when its obvious what I mean. If you want to be technical, im normally far better with keeping stuff straight as scum too, but thats self-meta and WIFOM.

You also never answered why you are rolefishing.

[Chimera]

Prodding Nachomamma8

[Nachomamma8]

Null: Llama, Nacho

Why? Have we not been providing enough content for you?

Q1. I had considered it, but calling out someone as scummy simply for buddying is a small tell at best, and I wouldn't lynch someone over it. My suspicions on him were dependent on a Thomith flip.

And the other part of the question?

It was only one piece of evidence in my case, and I stated that it wasn't my REASON for being suspicious of Venmar, it was simply where I started my reading on N1 (I always like to read over a flipped towny mislynch for wagon analysis + reads, since their reads, even if minimal and crappish, are at least sincere).

I never said anything differently. I was just wondering why it factored into your case on Venmar.

Can anyone care to explain the wagon on me other than 'one of many non-town reads', 'read Venmar wrong' and 'didn't like his case on Venmar'? How does that make me scum? Sounds like great reasons for a mislynch, really. If that's the case, everyone D1 on the Burke wagon is scum and should be lynched, because we all got that wrong.

I voted you because I wanted to see how you would react to a bit of pressure. I would like to hear Jackal's and Llama's, though.

Unvote, Vote: Thomith

Still my preferred lynch based on current reads.

What current reads?
Do you just not like getting asked for reasons?

and Venmar, the one think i hate more than vi's are nigh confirmed
townies refusing to change their reads. i know your kind, and i wont waste
my time changing your mind. I see you also conpletely ignored my questions
since your 'confirmed town'.

Wait, then what do you think his unvote was for?