Abarat: Days of Magic, Nights of War Mafia (Endgame)

[Llamarble]

Anyway, putting lots of votes on me isn't going to help me with operation think clearly.

?????
PROBLEM? I don't see how this isn't a gigantic wagon from this alone.

I'm going to be very useful this game. I will be less useful if I have to spend a lot of my time explaining the same things repeatedly, and sometimes the HATRED OF DUMB (omgus) clouds my reads. Let me do my thing and I'll be pretty unambiguously town after a while.

I'm better at defense than I am at simply doing my town-thing as scum anyway, so it's not like you'd be hurting scum-me.

[Fate]

So, once and forever, you newbscum or newbtown?

[Fate]

I really don't see scum AGAR placing a reasonless vote then trying to back it up after the fact

His vote wasn't fuckin reasonless

Scum again HUH Reck, just flake now bro

[Karen Walker]

oh what the fuck, I got Hinduragi and AGar mixed up

AGar's vote wasn't reasonless, it was a drastic overreaction to something Ludi said. hmm.

I'm down but OAFE is still scum and I want my lynch k

Vote AGar

[Minimum]

This was supposed to be our last post before replenishment...but instead it's our first

after

, because I'd just assumed the replenishment VC would be posted twenty-four hours after the last one. (CES will kill me for wasting it. )

We'll probably do a cycle of "CES posts four cryptic one-liners and votes, Mina writes one scattershot wall" each replenishment. If someone asks me something tonight, I'll leave my answers in the hydra QT for CES to post in the morning.

I-Llamarble

At the moment, I'm fine with our vote on him, in part because I know CES has been successful at reading him before, in part because I wasn't fond of Llamarble's first two posts (he seems somewhat image-conscious, the case on Shinori felt stretchy, and I didn't like "chesskid is a great wagon! Oh, but Seraphim and Shinori are scum together"), and in part because we're not yet in consensus on our other suspects.

He admitted my read made sense anyway, so I don't know why you're pretending he looks town based on some boring superficial stuff.

I don't think I said that, but yeah I could see myself as mafia going 'Okay I just laboriously gave birth to a post and the hardest thing for me to do this game is going to be making a decent postcount so let's just acknowledge the wifom to make it not a scumtell and post it.'
I'll town eventually though, so no worries.
Anyway, putting lots of votes on me isn't going to help me with operation think clearly.

My other half thinks your "easy but wrong" is either agreeing that our read makes sense or just meaningless "I should respond here" drivel, FYI. Also, since this was when we were the lone vote on you, I have no clue how that would cloud your thinking.

p-edit: Llama, instead of assuring us of how town you'll act eventually, just be town

right now

. I know it's a Catch-22 to attack you and then attack you more for defending yourself, but it seems like you're using more of your limited posts to discuss your town vs. scum meta than to play the game.

---

II-MoI vs. Bella

MoI is probably town even if he's gambiting, but I think he's telling the truth. (I think there's an obvious explanation for "At least one Day Aligned player," although I'd like to hear him clarify it.) All the speculation to whether it's a gambit is fruitless when he'd just revoke his claim before the day ends if so. MoI is always afraid of dying N1, so he'd be pretty stupid to spread misinformation and have town lose the game after his death as a result.

We're waiting on a few things before we share our reads on his pool of three

(besides, after all the work CES put into being opaque and unhelpful, he'd kill me if I made our slot too transparent)

. However, the timing of Bella's vote for MoI initially bothered me; it was after he'd dropped a huge towntell but before it became obvious that the wagon was no longer viable.

BELLA, READ THIS! BELOW HERE!

Since you didn't fully read the post that you voted MagnaofIllusion for, I'm assuming you'll skim this otherwise.

That sounds par for the course. I'll be sure to remember this when you're proven wrong.

(Fwiw, I didn't even read that part of your post on account of noticing the insult you aimed at me. Nice try, though.)

i. Why did you vote for MagnaofIllusion in your first post?
ii. You said before that you voted him without even seeing MoI's claim. Have you read it yet? What do you think?
iii. Are you voting MagnaofIllusion because you don't like him, or do you actually believe that he's scum? The part where you taunt him for being wrong seems to imply you think he's misguided town.
iv. Do you have any thoughts on people in the game who

aren't

MagnaofIllusion?

---

III-AGar

So just checking: first you thought Magister Ludi was scum because of his weird question. Then he explained himself (adequately, IMO). Are you still voting him because you don't think the ICs would actually be helpful? I'm not seeing how a technicality like that is alignment-relevant.

---

IV-OnceAndForEver

i. Whose alt are you?
ii. Why the over-the-top reaction to Regfan's post? Was it because you got a really strong town read on him?
iii. Fun fact: Faraday told me after the first Abarat game that hito doesn't like the miller role. What do you think about that?

---

V-Untrod Tripod

The only thing that stands out to me is this:

I'm having a hard time seeing chesskid as town from his interactions with MoI, but I'll let it slide for now

since we're apparently frying other fish at the moment.

This attitude is one of my pet peeves. What's stopping you from attacking chesskid if you really want to? It's not like this is deadline and it actually matters who's getting the most heat from the loudest voices in the town?

---

VI-Nuwen

Start posting.

(Yes, that was worth a giant purple header.)

[hitogoroshi]

The more of the melody she heard, the more bittersweet it seemed to be. It was the kind of song her grandfather (her mom’s dad, Grandpa O’Donnell) used to sing when she was little. Laments, he called them.

"What’s a lament?" she had asked him one day.

"A song about the sad things in the world," he’d told her, his voice tinged with a little of his Irish roots. "Lovers parted, and ships lost at sea, and the world full of loneliness from one end to the other."

"Why’d you want to sing about sad things?" Candy had asked him.

"Because any fool can be happy," he’d said to her. "It takes a man with real heart" - he’d made a fist and laid it against his chest - "to make beauty out of the stuff that makes us weep."

I still don’t understand…."

Grandpappy O’Donnell had cupped her face in his big, scarred hands. He’d worked on the railroad most of his life, and every scar had a story. "No, of course you don’t," he said with an indulgent smile. "And why should you? A sweet slip of a girl like you, why should you have to know anything about the sorrow of the world? You just believe me when I tell you… there’s no way to live your life to the full and not have a reason to shed a tear now and again. It’s not a bad feeling, child. That’s what a lament does. It makes you feel happy to be sad, in a strange way. D’you see?"

VC 6 (Session 1, VC 6)

(5)

Shinori:

Nuwen, petapan, Staeg, Llamarble, Shmugen

(chesskid3)

[L-7]
(3)

Llamarble:

Minimum, Hinduragi, Flash
(3)

AGar:

The Two In One, Untrod Tripod, Karen Walker
(3)

petapan:

Strain

, 4nix3ty, OnceAndForEver
(2)

chesskid3:

Strain

, Shinori
(2)

Bella:

MagnaofIllusion, sword_of_omens
(1)

OnceAndForEver:

RedCoyote,

(Karen Walker)

(1)

MagnaOfIlluision:

Bella
(1)

Flash:

Seraphim
(1)

Minimum:

Magister Ludi
(1)

Magister Ludi:

AGar
(1)

Fate:

Strain

(1)

Untrod Tripod:

chesskid3

(1)

Not Voting:

Nachomamma8

(OnceAndForEver)

Post Counts

chesskid3:

****

petapan:

*

Shmugen:

*

OnceAndForEver:

***

AGar:

*

Karen Walker:

***

Hinduragi:

*

Llamarble:

*

Fate:

**

Minimum:

*

Permenant Strain:

chesskid3

(1),

petapan

(1),

Fate

(1)

With 23 votes in play, it takes 12 to lynch.

Automatic Termination of the First Session

(expired on 2012-07-31 19:00:00)

Nachomamma8 is V/LA until Saturday.

[AGar]

Lol @ ReckDB

Minimum: I think it's pretty clear why my vote is still parked, maybe you should just read the posts I make. It's really really helpful, I promise.

[Hinduragi]

I need to know if either Regfan or Fate have detailed flavor knowledge in this game.

Vote: Minimum

Their entire role PM is posted for you to read.

VOTE: Magister Ludi

erm.... so what? I wasn't asking for their flavor knowledge of their pm, but rather of the arabat book/this game in general. What I want to know, exactly, is who the probable scum team is from an informed flavor standpoint, and who the good guys are.

And you don't think there would be fakeclaims provided?

Minimum: I think it's pretty clear why my vote is still parked, maybe you should just read the posts I make. It's really really helpful, I promise.

Unvote; Vote AGar

I'm down.

[OnceAndForEver]

I am not that new, this is not my main. Regfan is the IC smart guy, of course I have a townread on him, learn to read.

I will reteirate, until proven otherwise, anyone not voting one of MOI's Scumspects is doing it wrong.

[Shinori]

After Post #131 I'm fine with an AGar lynch.

Unvote
Vote: AGar

[Hinduragi]

But this early? Really? This happened before post one hundred, No one is stupid enough to have bible level belief in their reads without at least a couple hundred posts. (Given that there have been no slips). I just don't see this happening, I'm sorry.

Then either you're playing dumb here, you have no idea about how anyone on this playerlist plays, or you're lying. You're going to see a lot more of this. Prepare yourself.

[MagnaofIllusion]

In response to Karen’s Post 99 --

So to directly answer Reg – it isn’t certain that my list contains Night aligned. Just that at least one is

N’T

Day aligned. Furthermore the wording suggests that a single non-Day flip from one of them does not automatically clear the others.

I’ve Bolded the typo that I think should have been clear from the context … but there you have it.

hypothesis: MoI is town gambiting,

OAFE sees this as a way to potentially line up 2-4 mislynches and pounces

I very much like where you are going with the bolded … my intial reaction was just that.

--

@Fate

= you want to be obnoxious (regarding Post 96) be my guest. You wanted interaction and you got questions. I’m not going to bother anymore if this is how you want to play it.

--

And you don't think there would be fakeclaims provided?

And certainly there’s no possible reason for people to seek out that information …

VOTE: Agar

I can roll with this.

--

MoI is always afraid of dying N1, so he'd be pretty stupid to spread misinformation and have town lose the game after his death as a result.

So Mina … how do you possibly extrapolate that line of thought?

ii. Why the over-the-top reaction to Regfan's post? Was it because you got a really strong town read on him?

I have a question about this Mina … what was your motivation in asking this question?

--

[OnceAndForEver]

MOI, are you saying that you were in fact gambiting, if so, I hate you forever......

[petapan]

shinori is still scum i got nuthin else to say

[RedCoyote]

Unvote

,

vote: Shinori

Going to put myself out there and join the crowd on this one. Mainly for this part,

I still see it as scummy, when did I say that I thought it made him feel more town like in my eyes?

It's just strange that the player we're talking about is the one you're voting. Am I splitting hairs, or is defending a player not the same as calling them town? I don't think I am, and I think this is a worthy wagon.

---

Do not like that last post, the timing of that vote sucks.

You plan to do something about it, pal?

---

Now it's not overwhelmingly powerful (in that 33% chance is only slightly better than 28%) but it is useful.

I don't know if that necessarily means we should halt the entire day and choose between the three though.

---

Hey RC, have you read the game yet? Yourr thoughts?

Uh, I think MoI claimed his info a bit early. I felt like I would've liked to see the day progress naturally without that information.

I'd like to ask him more about his power and if he is going to be getting more information as the game goes on, but I don't want the general public privy to that information.

Other than that, I take it with a grain of salt. I have no idea if MoI is town or not. For all we know this could be some tactic. I mean, playing devil's advocate with this, a weak scum role taking out three random town players based on some clever trick wouldn't be half bad. Bella is the scum, she flips town, chess must be it, he flips town, that leaves peta... he flips town. That's several days down with little to show for it because we completely narrowed our field of vision and trusted the game to MoI's word.

I don't know, I'm thinking maybe it's more of a Vig problem.

---

@RC – did you read the thread prior to your RVS vote?

Not particularly closely, no. I saw that OAFE had claimed Miller, but that didn't change the reason I wanted to vote him.

---

I have no reason not to believe MoI at this juncture

But why should we err on the side of believing him when, should we choose to find his claim skeptical, nothing changes and the game carries on as usual.

---

So to directly answer Reg – it isn’t certain that my list contains Night aligned.

:/

---

Even if MoI is telling the truth, something I'm not entirely convinced of, I'd rather lynch people I find scummy than people within his set, if those 2 things overlap, sure I'll use it as a tie breaker. They don't at the moment.

Well put.

---

Where's the scum motivations in that kind of shenanigan.

See above. It causes enough dissonance to the status quo to throw the town off kilter. Um, like, worst case scenario, everyone believes him, lynches all three in a row and they all flip town. Okay, well, that's 3 days wasted and then MoI is in the spotlight.

That won't happen though. It won't be that simple. It will carry through for a while. Maybe eventually we'll hit all three of them, but I doubt it would be so coordinated. What's going to happen is that not all three of them will be taken out before, say, Day 6. By that point, whether MoI is alive or not, there will have been enough complete confusion to have served its purpose.

I'm not saying that's what's going on, I'm just saying I'm not going to use (or fall for) any argument that bases itself on the idea that MoI wouldn't do this as scum.

---

nobody is saying MoI is pushing SCUMGENDA here

they are saying MoI is pushing POLICYGENDA + LOLTHERE'SPROLLY1SCUMHERE

Yeah, it felt a bit forced.

---

I very much like where you are going with the bolded … my intial reaction was just that.

He's certainly sure of himself. Did you also notice how he slipped in that little "the town should follow MoI or vote me" comment? Even for a Miller claim, it stood out to me.

[Shinori]

I DID NOT DEFEND HIM. WHEN DID I DEFEND HIM?

I put a vote on him and then asked if that was something he did or didn't do and asked for clarification on that. Please explain to me how that is me defending him?

Please find the exact line where I thought he was town or defended him. Because I did not. I asked if what he was doing was something he normally did or not.

[petapan]

you tripped over yourself with it - first you weren't defending him - then you say you were asking if it was something he usually does, which would imply it to be a nulltell, and then it's "no i still find it scummy" (but you never did in the first place(and still haven't explained it))

and then there's the current vote which is also bad

[Shinori]

I thought he was scummy because of his inability to post and his inability to actually explain anything behind his vote, which is why I was wondering if it was something he normally does, because if it is something he does then I wanted to know if he tends to do it more as town or scum. I did not state that I found him scummy at the time because I didn't see it was required considering multiple other players in this same thread have voted someone with no reasoning and have not been called out on it, yet they obviously feel their vote should be on their target.

And I like how you just admitted that I wasn't defending him at first, yet weren't you one of the people who said I was originally?

tl;dr: i found it scummy and wanted to know if it was something he did as scum normally and was accused of defending him when I wasn't.

[Regfan]

I don't understand or agree with Fates town-read on Bella, her posts have just been responses to insults rather than anything game related which is null at best though I'm very happy to keep our vote on AGar for now, seems like he's one scum-read that both Fate and I agree on. I still think inside the '3' that Bella is the most likely scum by far and really do not see MoI faking this as a policy pusher or as mafia; he's smart enough to know that policy-pushing this is likely to backfire more times than not and as scum it would lead towards him being sacrificed to lynch what he considers to be weak players which is not something he'd be aiming to do.

Mina, if you

know

that Hito dislikes millers is there any particular reason your vote isn't on OAFE right now? Also how confident (A percentage will suffice) are you in there being no miller in this game due to that knowledge? Also please don't encourage CES with his Llama read.

[petapan]

shinori you didn't ask if it was something he does normally as scum though

Side note isn't this something Seraphim does normally? Vote someone with no reasoning and say it's a real vote. Idk though I was only in a game with him for part of a day I think. Any clarification?

the uh, the implication here is that you think it's a thing he does normally, as in always, as in not having a bearing on his alignment. if you had asked "is" then it wouldn't be as big a problem for me but the last part of the sentence pretty much kills that interpretation - if you think something is normal behavior i don't see why you'd think it was scummy and your "clarification" seems more like you covering your ass


Reg - i'm pretty sure MoI retracted his claim, implicitly

[Llamarble]

I-Llamarble

At the moment, I'm fine with our vote on him, in part because I know CES has been successful at reading him before, in part because I wasn't fond of Llamarble's first two posts (he seems somewhat image-conscious, the case on Shinori felt stretchy, and I didn't like "chesskid is a great wagon! Oh, but Seraphim and Shinori are scum together"), and in part because we're not yet in consensus on our other suspects.

He admitted my read made sense anyway, so I don't know why you're pretending he looks town based on some boring superficial stuff.

I don't think I said that, but yeah I could see myself as mafia going 'Okay I just laboriously gave birth to a post and the hardest thing for me to do this game is going to be making a decent postcount so let's just acknowledge the wifom to make it not a scumtell and post it.'
I'll town eventually though, so no worries.
Anyway, putting lots of votes on me isn't going to help me with operation think clearly.

My other half thinks your "easy but wrong" is either agreeing that our read makes sense or just meaningless "I should respond here" drivel, FYI. Also, since this was when we were the lone vote on you, I have no clue how that would cloud your thinking.

p-edit: Llama, instead of assuring us of how town you'll act eventually, just be town

right now

. I know it's a Catch-22 to attack you and then attack you more for defending yourself, but it seems like you're using more of your limited posts to discuss your town vs. scum meta than to play the game.

---

II-MoI vs. Bella

[/size]

i. Whose alt are you?
ii. Why the over-the-top reaction to Regfan's post? Was it because you got a really strong town read on him?

Haha why are we talking about townreads on Regfan.

Your lone vote on me is already clouding my thinking because instead of scumhunting tonight I'm writing a response to you and whoever that other guy was. So yes, I will be town right now, if you let me do my thing. You can characterize "you voted me so I'm going to tell you you're wrong" as meaningless drivel if you like. I don't like when people vote me so I usually tell them to go away and put their vote someplace more productive. And virtually never in history has a case been made on page 2 / 3 / whatever that could not be called stretchy. I have no clue why you don't like me liking a chesskid wagon and then being much more excited about Sera/Shinori.

[Llamarble]

Oh I already responded to other guy.

Knowing absolutely that there is at least 1 scum in a group of 3 is a lot nicer than just the 28->33% upgrade.
If this isn't a 'the sooner you kill the scums the better for everything' game then it is a weird game indeed.

I wish MoI had waited because scum will treat a buddy differently if they KNOW that that buddy is doomed, but meh.

[Shinori]

No I asked if it was something he did normally, that's completely true. Because I wanted an answer to that question first and felt no need to imply that I figured it was something he tended to do more as scum than town. Where I come from votes with no reason is scummie, and I would normally think that would be something that was normal elsewhere, but apparently that isn't so here.

[Llamarble]

Yeah okay I can see why people think MoI made that up.
I was all excited about the narrowing down into manageable task.

Shinori is probably town.
Nuwen or Chesskid are the most likely scums on that wagon.

Meh on Agar. Actually yeah scum can fake 120 okay I guess.
I'm sleepy.

VOTE: Agar

[Staeg]

Lol @ ReckDB

Minimum: I think it's pretty clear why my vote is still parked, maybe you should just read the posts I make. It's really really helpful, I promise.

Speaking of readin posts, how many of you have read the (special) rules?