NY Mafia 155 - New Age Mafia II - Game Over!

[AGar]

I'm

fairly certain

I'm not scum.

I don't get it...

This is a shittily timed joke in an effort to get us to glaze over you not posting any content, right?

Right?

---

I'd rather wagon Quilford. Singer does feel scapegoaty, especially considering there are about 4 or 5 other people also actively avoiding posting anything worthwhile.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Quilford

#388 looks all sorts of "Oh, me too!" after Tierce threw her little fit. Here's a hint, while what Quag does is fucking retarded? It's extremely on a town-side of things, because everything he does on D1 is in fact from a practically confirmed-town mindset. The reason it's so retarded is because of how hard he can fuck his scumbuddies in the process either by running up a wagon on one of their power roles or generally forcing himself into an unplayable proposition on Day 2 when he now has to emulate that behavior and genuineness. Quilford's reactions seems like someone who feels slighted by the inherent pro-townness of it.

There's also his other shit earlier in this game too that was all sorts of awful.

Much better option here.

[singersigner]

How is it a joke... I legitimately don't get why he'd post something like that.

In any case, massclaim shitfest over and all, rereading the thread cuz I forgot everything I read already. Except that I said the last two pages before I replaced in were funny...I wonder if I'll still find them funny...

Last couple of pages thus far...
JD seems a little try-hardy but I've never played with him before so.
Primate's town.
Glork...do you feel that "short-sighted"=scum? Or are you basically calling everyone who thinks you're scummy for a bad idea dumb? For the record, I wouldn't consider that a gambit if you had legitimate reasons for doing so, and you actually got half (more than half?) the players on board. What do you think of Tierce emulating your scum-play if you consider it "too reserved"?

In any case, as dumb as it was, this leaves any unclaimed/lying watchers/trackers/docs freedom to choose targets and force scum to gambit with night kills.

[singersigner]

AGar, if that's the way you feel about Quilford, how do you feel about Tierce?

[AGar]

AGar, if that's the way you feel about Quilford, how do you feel about Tierce?

Tierce's fit felt legitimate - I feel like she actually was pissed off that Quag didn't read his role PM without thinking it through, whereas Quilford was just upset because scum were distinctively at a disadvantage in that situation. I've got other problems with Tierce's game so far, but I feel like her fit was alignment independent.

[Quilford]

Yes AGar, I'm just so upset about Quagmire's unfair strategy and I notice just how much towncred Tierce has gotten from replacing out that I, as scum, decide to express my emotions in thread.

Get real.

[AGar]

Yes AGar, I'm just so upset about Quagmire's unfair strategy and I notice just how much towncred Tierce has gotten from replacing out that I, as scum, decide to express my emotions in thread.

Get real.

Towncred? Oh no, there was no towncred to be had. Like I said, alignment independent.

Your fit was solely an attempt to force something.

[singersigner]

meh, fuckl whatever koffing wants to do, as I expected

Tierce is butthurt scum

that is complaining about lack of scumhunting when she hasnt done shit at all

Followed by Quilford requesting replacement in just about the same way Primate did before scooby's comment.

How are those actions mutually exclusive from one another?

[Staeg]

AGar, if that's the way you feel about Quilford, how do you feel about Tierce?

Tierce's fit felt legitimate - I feel like she actually was pissed off that Quag didn't read his role PM without thinking it through, whereas Quilford was just upset because scum were distinctively at a disadvantage in that situation. I've got other problems with Tierce's game so far, but I feel like her fit was alignment independent.

Wellll the problem here is pretty much exactly what JD said, she didn't do ANYTHING before said fit.

[Tierce]

Alright then.

Staeg and associates: my reaction to Quagmire has everything to do with game integrity and nothing to do with my alignment. I can provide evidence of similar reactions both as town and as scum. In fact, I can provide proof of similar reactions to a situation I wasn't even involved in. Any speculation on whether I'd do this as alignment X or Y dies here, as this is not something I'd pretend about.

Suggesting I'd replace out to gain towncred on a slot I'd lose attachment to is several levels of absurd; you'll note I couldn't be bothered to follow up with JDodge's plea. JDodge, by the way, belongs in the townbin by sheer virtue of Giving A Damn About The Game.

I don't particularly care whether or not it'd be protown from Quagmire to act the way he did, AGar--if everyone did so, the game would lose meaning.
With that said, I'm not interested in any AGar lynch today. (Fact: I thought it was Rhinox who had posted the alignment-null commentary about my reaction, and was coming here to ask Glork whether they have daytalk, because that would totally be something I could see Glork, who knows me best out of anyone in the game, could discuss with Rhinox and might invalidate the way Rhinox-AGar acted here. Had my scummers mixed up.)

I'm very tired and this was rather draining; I don't like seeing my integrity brought into question. ('Butthurt scum'? No, that should read 'player with a moral code'.) I need more nap time and have other things to address in the dead of night before paying attention to this game.

[Staeg]

No, tierce, that's not what I said - I'm pretty sure you know I would expect you to replace out in these circumstances. I'm saying, you were doing nothing and then some and suddenly popped out to replace out.

[Tierce]

...and? Since it's an alignment-null issue, what I was doing before has nothing to do with my decision. I was in the middle of a roleplaying session, saw someone admit to what I think is major unsportsmanlike (pretty word) behavior, acted on it ASAP--because in my eyes, that is bigger than wincon. I would have done the same if I had drawn scum and Quagmire was listed as my buddy. I've quickhammered as town when someone tried to play a trust-tell (and threatened doing so

as scum

), this isn't that different.

It seems you're agreeing with AGar that what I did was independent to my alignment. He says he has other problems with my play, and you quote that post saying I wasn't doing anything before because...? I've explained why I wasn't, I chose not to interfere with the massclaim. If we're going to cut that short, I'm resuming play as normal--once I nap+other stuff.

[Staeg]

Okay, then.

Now vote singer :3

[singersigner]

[nhammen]

also would like to point out redff starting the massclaim while we were still discussing it and then suggesting we stop it - that's putting up all sorts of red flags for me

I also noticed this. But with my previous view of him, combined with the fact that I cannot find a scumplay in which this is intentional, this may just be confirmation bias on my part. His play before this has been legitimately scummy regardless of this though, so it doesn't change my read on him.

red kinda-townread

Can you explain this one? He is currently one of my three big scumreads, along with singer and Tierce.

(I'm mostly ambivalent here, feels like a prepared position from singer and don't see enough in UT).

May I ask what you mean by prepared position?

#388 looks all sorts of "Oh, me too!" after Tierce threw her little fit. Here's a hint, while what Quag does is fucking retarded? It's extremely on a town-side of things, because everything he does on D1 is in fact from a practically confirmed-town mindset. The reason it's so retarded is because of how hard he can fuck his scumbuddies in the process either by running up a wagon on one of their power roles or generally forcing himself into an unplayable proposition on Day 2 when he now has to emulate that behavior and genuineness. Quilford's reactions seems like someone who feels slighted by the inherent pro-townness of it.

Ummm... so, you only gave examples of how Quag's play is a problem for scum if Quag is scum. I will have to keep this in mind if Quag flips scum. Also, yes, scum base their play on what makes them feel slighted rather than what makes them likely to win.

Last couple of pages thus far...
JD seems a little try-hardy but I've never played with him before so.
Primate's town.
Glork...do you feel that "short-sighted"=scum? Or are you basically calling everyone who thinks you're scummy for a bad idea dumb? For the record, I wouldn't consider that a gambit if you had legitimate reasons for doing so, and you actually got half (more than half?) the players on board. What do you think of Tierce emulating your scum-play if you consider it "too reserved"?

Yay! A few reads from this slot! Now, what about scumreads?

Tierce's fit felt legitimate - I feel like she actually was pissed off that Quag didn't read his role PM without thinking it through, whereas Quilford was just upset because scum were distinctively at a disadvantage in that situation. I've got other problems with Tierce's game so far, but I feel like her fit was alignment independent.

Your fit was solely an attempt to force something.

Meh, I'm not sure scum would have tried to force something after two other players had already expended effort in that direction. Also would like to reiterate that you only gave examples of it disadvantaging scum if Quag is scum. Do you believe Quag is scum? If not, why would Quil feel the need to make this play?

[Staeg]

Can you explain this one? He [red] is currently one of my three big scumreads, along with singer and Tierce.

Gut.

[Quagmire]

Jesus, you guys. Tierce is scum so hard. How do you not see it?

[OhGodMyLife]

Vote Count:

10 to lynch

singersigner: 5 (Quilford, JDodge, nhammen, Staeg, Flameaxe)
Rhinox: 3 (umoms, Tierce, redFF)
nhammen: 2 (Primate, singersigner)
umoms: 2 (Rhinox, Glork)
Tierce: 2 (bv310, Quagmire)
redFF: 1 (iamausername)
Glork: 1 (scooby)
bv310: 1 (Bella)
Bella: 1 (Simenon)
Quilford: 1 (AGar)

Not Voting: 0

Current Deadline:

Sunday August 5th, 10 PM EST

All parties in this dispute have been contacted, and I can vouch for the fact that everyone has now complied with the confirmation rule. If anyone still has issues I'd appreciate if they could be dealt with by PMing me rather than posting in thread.

Prods out to those in need of prodding.

[singersigner]

Oh yeah!

unvote
vote: bv310

[Staeg]

Jesus, you guys. Tierce is scum so hard. How do you not see it?

I'll be having that case you promised, thanks

[bv310]

Okay, first things first,

unvote

With that out of the way, here's the result of my super-awesome 17-page reread!

First off, Tierce/Umoms are scummy as all hell early. Posts like 74 and 94 are useless as all hell. Nhammen's worse though. His reactions in the first few pages feel fake. Especially post

On page 7, RedFF is worthy of a good wagon. I am in fact quite surpirised he seems to have gotten off with only light suspicion. BBM nails it in post 131


And that's where I am leaving part 1 while I drive home from work. More to come in about an hour. Sorry. Underestimated how long reading 17 pages would take.

[bv310]

Probably should have cut that third line out, in retrospect.

[Glork]

Singer, it *is* a joke. We used to say stuff like that in scumchat mafia all the time way back in the day.
3p LyLo: "Guys I'm p sure I'm not scum, you two should vote for each other"... I even did that in Skypemafia just a few months back.


Also, no, short-sighted does not mean scum. If I meant scum, I'd have said scum. Quag is a strong protown read, Rhinox is at least not mafia-scum (although claiming mafia-bulletproof as mafia would be pretty techy), and Scooby... idk, he just seems kind of aloof. What I meant was, people who think that I'd make this kind of gambit on D1 as scum aren't really digging into past glorkmeta, at all. If you look back at our TM quicktopic, I legit thought that CTD's massclaim idea was fucking brilliant, and wanted to do it in my game, too. I still think it's fucking brilliant, even though CTD got lynched in part over it, and I knew that I'd pick up some flak for it. I still think we should finish the masslcaim, and pretty much everyone who continues to post without claiming (except Quag) is getting minus points for not doing so.

In this situation, zero fucks given = protown. People who are hiding behind other things and stalling/avoiding the massclaim must have *some* reason for it, and I guarantee you it's not because they're power... because like three people have claimed power already. (Not that everyone who has claimed power is inherently protown, but if they're scum they're committing to a potential world of hurt.)

[AGar]

Ummm... so, you only gave examples of how Quag's play is a problem for scum if Quag is scum. I will have to keep this in mind if Quag flips scum. Also, yes, scum base their play on what makes them feel slighted rather than what makes them likely to win.

Well from Quag's slot, yes - it's only problematic behavior if he's scum. If he's town, he has an entire day of honest reads to base off of and go forward with a strong town footing.

How Quag's behavior affects scum doesn't matter whether Quag is scum or not. Quag-town doing this hinders scum because there is no possible way they can justify a lynch on a player who is acting in the town's best interest in terms of his scumhunting (it's going to be honest) without resorting to policy. Quag-scum doing this obviously hurts the scumteam in the ways I iterated before.

Staeg

Re-read the post you quoted. You'll find a hidden gem in there just for you.

Tierce

Oh trust me, I'm not a fan, and have helped push a policy lynch on him for that before. I just cba to care that much to replace out of an otherwise good game, personally. Now read Quilford's bitch-post and his bitching after the fact when Quag had read his PM and everything had been sorted out and tell me how that's a town mindset.

[iamausername]

I claim VT.

UNVOTE: redFF
VOTE: nhammen

He said "I claim VT", not "I am a VT".

I just searched through 8 pages of nhammen posts on the site containing the word 'claim', and found these examples of nhammen claiming roles as scum:

Since I am the only unclaimed person here, I'm going to claim VT right now. Sorry to disappoint Pine, apparently there is no Doctor.

I saw that we are doing a massclaim, and thanks to the fact that silver asked for me to be next to claim at the top of a page, I know that I am next.

Claim: VT

and these examples of nhammen claiming roles as town:

I have a feeling that I'm going to be lynched before I can claim, so I'll do that now. I'm an odd-day cop with a bulletproof vest.

It seems it is time for me to claim. I am a roleblocker. And I would also make claims about the intelligence of the people on this wagon, but I think that would be against the site rules.

and precisely zero counter examples.

Let's lynch nhammen.

[nhammen]

I'm kinda surprised. I could swear I have been endgamed as VT before, so there should be actual VT examples here. I'm going to have to go over games I've been in to see if this actually matches. If it does, the only thing I can think of is that both of the other two were power roles.

Dinner now; will look over my games after that.