NY Mafia 155 - New Age Mafia II - Game Over!


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Post Post #500 (ISO) » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:29 pm

Post by singersigner »

@nhammen...I never mentioned the case, you're right. What I DID do was react to your reaction to it. I didn't clearly define what I found scummy about it, no, but your reaction to my reaction only makes me feel better about my vote. You're either jumping to conclusions about why I voted, or intentionally putting incorrect motivations behind it, neither are town-motivated.

Psyche wrote:No.

I wasn't interested in it because of its reference to you, but because of its assumption that seemingly harmless differences in word choice can predict scumhood.

I don't plan to take the idea seriously at all during this game.

What's the purpose of commenting on the uselessness(?) of something your predecessor did?
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Post Post #501 (ISO) » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:53 pm

Post by Psyche »

Personal, non-game related
You can't step in the same river twice.
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Post Post #502 (ISO) » Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:00 pm

Post by Tierce »

Jesus, people.

It's Psyche. This is the guy who made the An Analysis of Accusations of Flailing thread and is coordinating the The Science of Mafia - Central Thread stuff. He commented on that idea because he is interested on analyzing it later. Lay off.

redFF and McStabmoms need to die.
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Post Post #503 (ISO) » Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:49 pm

Post by Glork »

Don't you mean Nhammen and Nhammen?
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Post Post #504 (ISO) » Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:36 am

Post by McStab »

I'll be posting a catchup post sometime today. Until I can read over the game,
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Post Post #505 (ISO) » Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:26 am

Post by redFF »

hey mcstap claim
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Post Post #506 (ISO) » Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:43 am

Post by McStab »

VT, I missed the part about the massclaim.
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Post Post #507 (ISO) » Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:34 am

Post by Glork »

Living (19/19) [/b] (bold is confirmed)
1.
McStab
rep. umoms D1 -- VANILLA TOWNIE
2.
Glork
-- VANILLA TOWNIE, NEIGHBOR WITH RHINOX
*3.
Quagmire

4.
Tierce
-- VANILLA TOWNIE
*5.
singersigner
rep. Untrod Tripod D1

6.
Bella -
Innocent Child

7.
Rhinox
-- BULLETPROOF TO MAFIA, NEIGHBOR WITH GLORK
8.
nhammen
-- VANILLA TOWNIE
9.
scooby
-- VANILLA TOWNIE
10.
Psyche
rep. iamausername D1 -- SANE COP (iamausername claimed COP)
11.
AGar
-- 1-SHOT VIGILANTE
12.
Staeg
-- ROLEBLOCKER
13.
bv310
rep. Thestatusquo D1 -- ONE-SHOT GUNSMITH
14.
redFF
-- VANILLA TOWNIE
15.
Quilford
-- VANILLA TOWNIE
*16.
Simenon

17.
Primate
-- BODYGUARD
18.
Flameaxe
-- VANILLA TOWNIE
19.
JDodge
-- VANILLA TOWNIE



Please tell me if this is correct.

Also, REALLY surprising that Sim hasn't claimed. Unless I missed him doing so, I kind of really want to lynch him after Nhammen.
Quag and Singer should claim, too.
:goodfeelings: about Quag went away because I forgot that his "protown behavioral tells" are invalidated by the fact that he had not read his role PM.
Singer... I know she thought massclaim was a terrible idea, but now that at least 16/19 have done so, being one of the holdouts is probably going to look really bad down the line.


Of the actual claimed roles, we have...
2 informative rower roles (one one-shot)
2 "protective" rower roles (but not really)
1 roleblocker
1 one-shot vig
9 vanilla townie (1 neighobr included)
1 Innocent Child


This already seems like the absolute maximum power we can expect, unless the game is full multiball. (Right now I'm thinking Mafia+SK.)



Nhammen is still the lynch today. I wouldn't mind seeing Simenon shot tonight.
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Post Post #508 (ISO) » Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:43 am

Post by Glork »

In fact, if I were a wagering man, I'd bet just about anything that Sim is some form of scum. I'd even be willing to lynch him
over
Nham today.
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Post Post #509 (ISO) » Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:44 am

Post by Glork »

OH NEVERMIND SIM DID CLAIM VANILLA FUCK ME I CAN'T READ.
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Post Post #510 (ISO) » Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:46 am

Post by Staeg »

I'm here and I don't see nhammen's reaction as a scumtell. Currently sticking to my vote.
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Post Post #511 (ISO) » Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:59 am

Post by Rhinox »

In post 496, nhammen wrote:So, what you are saying is if someone accuses me of something, I shouldn't respond to it and should just say lolno instead? I do not agree with this at all. If I see a logical argument which I know is false, I will use logic to show everyone that it is false.

You didn't use logic to prove iama wrong. You used logic that ended up just showing that iama was being logical, and then just tacked on your "lolno" at the end regardless.


gah I wanna lynch nham but..

unvote, vote singer


because she needs to claim or die.

She never said she was against massclaim (although she called it a shitfest even that was after she thought it was *over*). She even used the massclaim early on to avoid posting content. Now she's just ignoring all discussion about why she hasn't claimed.
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Post Post #512 (ISO) » Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:08 am

Post by nhammen »

In post 500, singersigner wrote:@nhammen...I never mentioned the case, you're right. What I DID do was react to your reaction to it. I didn't clearly define what I found scummy about it, no, but your reaction to my reaction only makes me feel better about my vote. You're either jumping to conclusions about why I voted, or intentionally putting incorrect motivations behind it, neither are town-motivated.

Your reaction was precisely "The fuck...", a vote on me, and then lining up of lynches. That doesn't look to me like town behavior and it does look opportunistic. At least you admit that you didn't clearly define what you found scummy. So, would you care to rectify that now? Because as it is, the way you jumped on my wagon looks extremely scummy.

In post 511, Rhinox wrote:
In post 496, nhammen wrote:So, what you are saying is if someone accuses me of something, I shouldn't respond to it and should just say lolno instead? I do not agree with this at all. If I see a logical argument which I know is false, I will use logic to show everyone that it is false.

You didn't use logic to prove iama wrong. You used logic that ended up just showing that iama was being logical, and then just tacked on your "lolno" at the end regardless.

You seriously don't see how my argument disproved his argument? Care to read it again and explain why?
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Post Post #513 (ISO) » Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:38 am

Post by Rhinox »

In post 512, nhammen wrote:You seriously don't see how my argument disproved his argument? Care to read it again and explain why?


No I don't. I see you list some examples that support iama's case actually and a skethcy haiku claim that doesn't really count. Then at the end of your post you say the sample size is too small and either way its a bad argument. Nothing you posted actually refutes iama's evidence at all. So why bother trying to find evidence to prove iama is wrong if your fallback is that its a crap point?

But like I said from the beginning, I don't think iama's point is a valid tell, but I think you reacted like caught scum.
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Post Post #514 (ISO) » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:29 am

Post by Quagmire »

In post 507, Glork wrote:

Also, REALLY surprising that Sim hasn't claimed. Unless I missed him doing so, I kind of really want to lynch him after Nhammen.
Quag and Singer should claim, too.
:goodfeelings: about Quag went away because I forgot that his "protown behavioral tells" are invalidated by the fact that he had not read his role PM.


As I've said multiple times, I'm not claiming anything today.

More to come later.
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Post Post #515 (ISO) » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:30 am

Post by Quagmire »

singer's a silly lynch. Tierce is obviously the best lynch today.
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Post Post #516 (ISO) » Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:39 pm

Post by Quagmire »

In post 418, Staeg wrote:
In post 415, Quagmire wrote:Jesus, you guys. Tierce is scum so hard. How do you not see it?

I'll be having that case you promised, thanks

Here you go

In post 474, JDodge wrote:I would like to take this time to note that I believe I am developing a blind spot towards Tierce; I'm finding it too easy to excuse her behavior as her trying to impress us or trying to use knowledge that I'm not entirely sure she understands, so I'm finding it hard to justify any of her actions as scum. I'm worried that this is a problem for me going forwards.


I've wondered the same thing myself. Is Tierce just a terrible player? Someone I just don't like and am more inclined to think is negative/mafia? Is her bitch fit over my playstyle affecting my judgment? At the very least, I suspect it's why noone's taking my thoughts on her seriously.

In post 125, Tierce wrote:
In post 120, Thestatusquo wrote:Not only is there no reason to think Umoms is scum, but the person who is in my book most likely to be scum is hanging on the back end of that wagon.

Tierce, my comment on bellas posts were tongue and cheek, yes, but they were also an attempt to try to steer the conversation in a more productive direction. Izzy's answers to those questions mattered to me. The fact that you blew them off doesn't necessarily read as weird to me on its own, but it does sort of give the impression that you're attempting to stay in randomness. Like, a sequence of

Person A: statement, joke, etc.
Person B: Somewhat serious question with a slight hint of joke.
Person C: HAHAH QUESTION DOESN'T MATTER LETS JUST KEEP VOTING RANDOM PEOPLE.

is suspicious to me. I also don't like how aggressively you jumped on the back end of the umoms wagon with no justification for it.

Unvote, Vote: Tierce

Of course I jumped on aggressively--that was the
whole point
. Push a quicklynch/quicklynch threat on D1, see where the pieces fall and mine the reactions garnered from it on later days. I've already explained this on #98. If I had hmm'd and haw'd about it we wouldn't be having these kind of developments; I wanted to take a decisive stance, to push the dominos one way or the other. People started scattering like frightened chickens, and with a few flips, we're going to have a better understanding of the interests behind this wagon and the reactions to it.

How did I 'blow your questions off'? My impression of Izzy's vote and comments about you was that they were RVS+jokes, and that you were overreacting in a weird manner and trying to fish too deeply for motivation. It felt like cheap posturing. This is not 'blowing questions off', this is "I find your scummy", period.

Yes, my own vote at the time was still RVS, I made another RVS joke in the same post (about Bella) and could have shifted to you; I chose not to because, after Glork's #47, I had a plan of action re: the next quickwagon that developed--push it to L-2, L-1 or hammer it.


The first significant marker in this game is the quicklynch attempt on umoms. While obviously a stupid idea, and at the time I agreed with Shea about her scuminess, if her play would remain consistently poor, illogical or quirky I would more or less agree with JDodge's post I quoted above. But it hasn't:


In post 155, Tierce wrote:I don't see any evidence of Rhinox looking for motivations--he's jumping on actions and declaring them scummy without showing how, if ever, said actions further the scum cause. He's more interested in criticism than in finding scum.


In post 452, Tierce wrote:redFF's tone reeks of "boy oh boy we caught a pseudo-scumslip party time". Look at how he addresses nhammen. Why is he apologizing for stringing him up? If he was THAT cheerful as town, he would be keeping it up, delighted that he had found a legitimate slip and would see someone flip scum very soon. He knows the slot is going to flip town.

And frankly, the number of situations in which this happened/didn't happen is not statistically significant, IMO.

As for you, I don't have a read yet. (Though thinking back that reaction to my vote shows a different mindset from redFF's, so town points for you I guess. I have to analyze this further.) And you're not going to get reads on 'everyone' on D1 of a large from me.

She's pushing vague, simple cases on people who have received little to no attention...and this is coming from someone who supposedly reads a lot of games and has to have studied up on good case practices. Both Rhinox and redFF had virtually flown under the radar at that point...a QuagScum meta, mind you, is to push cases on those under the radar D1 so in the future I can be seen as scumhunting and still avoid the potential spotlights that come with simple bandwagon lynches on protown players (which Tierce has done today also, while defending it with GlorkScum meta)*. Thus, I view this behavior as a scumtell. In addition, other than these few light and fluffy posts, she's been posting contentless one-liners** while still maintaining the illusion of being active.

I also thought it was fairly convenient the bitch fit over my role PM came right as there was some momentum starting to build on the Tierce wagon. But, that's just theorizing and grasping at straws.

*Ignore that I'm doing this right now. K?
**Ignore that I do this. K?
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Post Post #517 (ISO) » Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:47 pm

Post by Quagmire »

In post 508, Glork wrote:In fact, if I were a wagering man, I'd bet just about anything that Sim is some form of scum. I'd even be willing to lynch him
over
Nham today.


See my post previous. This is why I have a scumread on Simenon too. I'm totally down with his wagon.

As for nhammen, I'm getting a neutral read. I don't buy the argument that his reaction whips him up as scum...in fact I get an "aw shucks guys that does sound pretty damning" which is protown if anything.
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Post Post #518 (ISO) » Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:21 pm

Post by Staeg »

Is that... it?



Doesn't phase me. I mean, it's better than "she's scum for srs guise," but I would think that you have some real-big catch.
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Post Post #519 (ISO) » Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:53 pm

Post by Quagmire »

In post 518, Staeg wrote:Is that... it?



Doesn't phase me. I mean, it's better than "she's scum for srs guise," but I would think that you have some real-big catch.



Well, it's better than the case on nhammen, and definitely the one on singer.
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Post Post #520 (ISO) » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:00 pm

Post by Psyche »

I REFUSE TO SLEEP UNTIL I READ THIS THREAD AND PREPARE A DECENT POST.

Or I get distracted and do something else of worth more suited to my sleep-deprived mind.

Or I fall asleep.
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Post Post #521 (ISO) » Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:55 pm

Post by Flameaxe »

In post 466, Flameaxe wrote:Might be a bit busy with reports over the weekend and early next week. Will try to stop by when I have time. Field session is muy fun.


Oral report tomorrow, then can post.
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Post Post #522 (ISO) » Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:37 pm

Post by Bella »

VOTE: Quagmire

Simple problems demand simple solutions.
Show
Chloroform girl, how have you been?
Don't let me catch you sleeping again
You're only alive because I like you
It's been three years since you've seen the sunlight
But I know you're having fun
Bound, gagged and chained up in my basement
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Post Post #523 (ISO) » Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:48 am

Post by singersigner »

I'm sure I'll have a couple comments soon. Energy's somewhere.

Apparently Izzy's the perfect innocent child.
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Post Post #524 (ISO) » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:28 pm

Post by Simenon »

Posting from a library computer.
And wow, less has happened than I expected would.

singer wrote:Not really sure what the point of your post was except to say that you disagree with the way I play.

I've never read a game with you in it, but I think I've heard that you're a strong player, and this doesn't cut it. I doubt this is a matter of playstyle, unless refusal to produce content is now a style.

In any case, why do you automatically assume it's an uncritical acceptance of iam's case as opposed to a critical unacceptance of nhammen's reaction? That's pretty clearly neither my thought process nor my reason for voting nhammen.

...because that's what anybody would assume, given the total lack of explanation that you provided?

In any case, it's perfectly reasonable to think the MC should play out without interruptions/distractions.

um, no, you shouldn't shut people up just because there's a massclaim. Especially not a massclaim on day 1, when the town needs information.
Let's lynch singer. She's got enough of a wagon on her. I think the case on nhammen is looking spurious.
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