Open 432: Robo's PYP (Game Over)

[Robocopter87]

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Vote Count

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• kyle99 [0]
  
• Starbuck [0]
  
• Shamrock [1] friday-13th
  
• MontyWhittaker [0]
  
• absta101 [1] Purrfect Panda
  
• friday-13th [0]
  
• noraaa [3] Starbuck, MontyWhittaker, kyle99
  
• Scigatt [1] Code_X
  
• splitfarvle [0]
  
• Purrfect Panda [3] Slandaar, absta101, Sawyer
  
  
• Sawyer [0]
  
• Code_X [0]
  
• Slandaar [1] noraaa

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Not Voting

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• splitfarvle, Shamrock, Scigatt

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Amount to Lynch

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• With 13 Alive it is 7 to Lynch.

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Deadline

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• August 24^th, EST.

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[Robocopter87]

splitfarvle has requested replacement due to work strain. Finding replacement.

I'm not, the mod made a typo.

Unvote

Indeed I did, I didn't fix the last one but this one should be accurate. Sorry about that.

That is all, carry on.

[Starbuck]

You're coming off as a bit paranoid/desperate to me.

How so?

You said that:

I learn all my tells from the games i've played

Given that you joined in March of this year, I was wondering how much experience you've gained in the five months that you've been on site. I'm curious as to what you have learned.

I only knew of pressure waggons as a way to get out of the RVS. Not voting slows that process down.

And now, what do you think?

Why would "pressure wagons" be the only way to get out of RVS?

[noraaa]

Okay. I'd like to apologize for all that before, it started off innocently enough but by the end I was definitely out of sorts. It's from a combination of outside factors and I'm working on it. So with mod permission I took a mental v/la from this game for about two days, and I am back hopefully to turn things around. I don't really want to discuss things from before I left but I know that's not possible so, but I'll try to keep it as brief as I can. I'll also try to work on quoting things with actual quote links, but I find that obnoxious when I could just copy/paste something. I know it makes things harder to read though.

Also,

unvote

starting fresh.


Slandaar (post 65)- it wasn't your initial post that I was voting you for. It was when you were digging into absta but refusing to elaborate when he asked. It was semi-RVS, and that was the thing I went with. I almost went with someone else (code), but I felt your situation overtook it. It wasn't a huge thing, but I found it curious.

As for Rach, she was extremely distracted in the last game I was in with her as well, if that's any help.

Scigatt (post 66)- it had nothing to do with the who, really. I was caught up on the action, and I really don't want to wall of text about that again so I'll shut up now.

Starbuck (post 67)- the reason I didn't want to provide examples is twofold, I guess. Firstly I was very close to the situation at the time and I felt antagonized by you, and I felt mocked, and I was not in a place to handle it well. Secondly I felt that there was no need to provide examples of things that had happened earlier on the same page as you could easily just look back up and see them. It's not hard to see the three people posting at the time and see which one of them is saying what about me. Every person posting at that time when I (admittedly) checked out, was telling me that I had been doing that investigation (which I guess bothered me because it felt like it was being dismissed as something worthy of being done, and I wasn't even doing it.. I had made literally like two posts and only opened up at request about my vote, so I wouldn't consider that an investigation at all. My initial thought was that the idea I mentioned was being detoured from, then when everyone continued to follow that line of conversation even though it was easy to read the difference (perhaps I process information just that much differently than others), it just made me feel like I was being trolled by people who wanted to pretend I was doing things I wasn't to make me feel crazy and ineffectual.) At the time I honestly thought all of you were scum together and was ready to vote myself off to prove my own sanity. As for asking for it to be dropped.. I just was sick of clogging up the game with something and I was unable to handle it at the time. Anyway I took a break for a reason.. and I stayed in the game for a reason too.

I will provide an example of my playstyle being misinterpreted, the first one deals with me addressing things laid out to me and it coming across as being too defensive, the second deals with my posting in a row.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4191579
post 1340/1341 comments between kmd and myself
post 1311 was my post he was referring to. Also if you iso me there you see that I often post 3-4 times in a row as I continue to mull things over (over maybe a ten minute period) before I stop looking at the game.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p4063604
post 1387 explains my "post a lot in a row" thing. Taking it in context, UN was scum and really was trolling me all game in the manner that I felt you guys were before I took my absense.
1379 and 1367 are also part of the discussion about my posting in a row thing. It's usually construed as flailing scum.


absta (post 73)- I understand where you're coming from but I think that scum would be just as likely as town to not know when the thread was unlocked and playable, considering their activities were taking place outside of it. Yes, they knew when their actions were over, but they could not account for how long the mod would take doing setup actions. I'm assuming every player was made aware of the timeline from the mod and had a basic understanding that they could ignore the thread for a few days.

elmo's posts- indicitave of playstyle more than alignment, and yes I know elmo doesn't read walls. He comes across as a very paranoid player, in my opinion, seeing almost everything as a tell.

post 95- it wasn't fake, you can look outside of this thread I sort of freaked out directly after leaving this thread and that's when I asked the mod to replace me. We settled on a short sabbattical to clear my head.

absta post 97- why do you think I'm likely to draw scum night fire? Don't you think they'd want someone they expect to be ineffectual to stay in the game, as opposed to someone who is clearly at the top of their game?

kyle post 98- at the time I was too caught up in what was going on to do anything but participate in that. I really didn't have it in me to do that AND further hunt. which is why I took a break from the game.

[Purrfect Panda]

This is the Rach head here. Elmo is playing very consistently for Elmo and well every game someone thinks he is scum for it. Noraa is right I had V/LA and then ended it too early because all heck broke loose just as I got back. However in this case, it was I wanted to touch base with Elmo which I had not been able to do before my first couple of posts. First time for me as a hydra.

I will read walls though, and will see what is up with Noraa's walls. Also will find the question Starbuck asked.

[Purrfect Panda]

Purrfect Panda

Really Noraaa drop the walls. Im not reading it and reads like a bunch of QQ to me..

I do apologize for my part in that, but it felt like an easier way to ask direct questions to break it down to where I wanted more of an explanation.

And even then Mt votes torn between you and Noraaa right now.

Why? What is your case on noraaa?

Absta101

I've been feeling icky about absta since I first read the game. I know he explained further that posts without votes can be useful, but it seems like a silly position for town to take. This is a game that is highly dependent on words and to openly say that you have a penchant to discount posts without votes is highly strange to me.

I'm still a bit confused at his reply:

I do find them useful. Just because I found votes "more useful" doesn't mean I find posts without them useless.
Events have proven me wrong in that a post with no vote can be just as effective.

I learn all my tells from the games i've played, I guess you can call me naive. Code didn't exactly help.

How many games has that been?

I voted him for:
1. Not voting because I thought (not voting) would prolong our time in the RVS stage.
Then after reviewing the setup...

2. The opposite of what he said in his first post seemed more likely therefore making me slightly suspicious.

1. Why would you think this?

2. why did it make you slightly suspicious?


Another thing, Absta's defense of noraaa is inching closer and closer to white knighting.

I'd guess Slandaar or Starbuck as one of her partners.

How so?

I saw no reason to explain the reasoning or motivation behind my initial post. Not explaining allows others to chirp in their views without being tainted by my explanation.

Absolutely.

His initial post confirms nothing one way or the other and there's nothing to base any assumption off of. It's basically like say "He said he's confirmed town, but he could be just scum saying that. But scum wouldn't say that, it would draw to much attention. Unless he is scum and he knows we would think like that, so we would think he's town!" And it goes on and on.

And this completely.



Shamrock's vote on friday-13th is absolutely terrible.


Still awaiting noraaa to come back and fully answer my questions.

@Starbuck We do not yet have a specific case on Noraa, I want to read her walls first, and Elmo does not read walls. Elmo often sees certain tells and goes with gut, I tend to be a tad more passive and sift through everything for the big picture before making a decision on who is scum.

[kyle99]

Noraaa, my problem with you right now is that instead of making a case against a person you think is scum, you're exclusively defending your play, which gets you (and the town) nowhere.

[noraaa]

Well I'm not anymore, but I was, you're right. But that was over a span of a few hours and it was what was being talked about at the time. I felt that i had to address things addressed to me and I wasn't really equipped to do more than that at the time because I was upset as it is obvious.

Generally speaking though, I don't really make cases the same way everyone else seems to, I sort of look at what's going on and watch interactions and then pose questions of people until I've made up my mind. When I started out playing I got in trouble a lot for rarely voting, but I've gotten somewhat better on that. I very rarely set up a "this and this and this" kind of case. I know it's not best for the game, but it's a combination of my newness at playing (I'm sure it takes a while to pick out the right things really well) and having lower skillset, and at the way my mind works in general. In social settings I do the same thing too. I'm very analytical but not in a particularly useful way all the time.

I play to get better, that's all I can tell you.

[noraaa]

^that in no way is supposed to be an excuse. I always try my best. It's just a look into how I think in case it's helpful.

[Shamrock]

Quick reaction post.

Panda wagon is a wagon I can get behind. Scummy (#91 is just horrible), off-topic, and unhelpful (refusing to respond to direct questions), never a good combination. This is as good a use of my vote as any.

VOTE: Panda

@noraa: Please stop making gigantic walls of text defending yourself. It fills the thread with pointless clutter that no one wants to read and does not help us scumhunt. Who do you think is scum?

@Monty: Do you still think noraaa is scum?

@Kyle: So do you think noraaa is scum or just annoying?

Shamrock's vote on friday-13th is absolutely terrible.

Why?

Can we get a prod on friday-13th? Also, he is not voting for me.

[Robocopter87]

Natalie replaces spliftarvle. Effective immediately.

Welcome him/her!

[Purrfect Panda]

I would be happy to answer questions what questions did you have Shamrock?


Welcome Natalie

[Natalie]

Hey everyone! It's 1 AM right now so I'll read and post something constructive tomorrow.

[Scigatt]

Ok, did a quick read, and here's a couple quick thoughts:
1) Maybe it's just been a while since I've played a game, but man, that RVS escalated to analyzing pointless dribble FAST.
2) I'm not a fan of the case against Panda.
3) I don't like noraaa's play. I could barely get through her #60. I'm not big into big wordy emotional posts that don't say anything, and despite having 10+ posts, she's done practically no scumhunting, just pointless emotional defenses. While perhaps the irreverent rambling of an easily offended townie, I find her complete lack of scumhunting worthy enough for my vote.
VOTE: noraaa

@Noraaa: Who do you think is scum right now, and why?

1.What's wrong with it? It looks like normal, productive post-RVS talk to me.
2.How is the case flawed?
3.Could you actually argue against absta101's assertion that it's a town tell?(post 61) I personally think it's a null tell, people can get out of sorts for all kinds of reasons, and I think it's more indicative of out-of-game considerations than anything. Why do you think it indicates scumminess?

This is the Rach head here. Elmo is playing very consistently for Elmo and well every game someone thinks he is scum for it. Noraa is right I had V/LA and then ended it too early because all heck broke loose just as I got back. However in this case, it was I wanted to touch base with Elmo which I had not been able to do before my first couple of posts. First time for me as a hydra.

I will read walls though, and will see what is up with Noraa's walls. Also will find the question Starbuck asked.

Please tell him to lay off the extraneous bullshit.

@Natalie:Hi

[noraaa]

From playing with both of the players in the hydra, I don't currently feel that Panda is scum. But anything can change. I've never played with either when they were scum so I don't know if their inattention/hostility changes for other alignments.

I missed the first time, sorry kyle, when you asked who my reads were. Honestly I don't have any that are developed enough yet at this point. I have a feel for some people that I think might be town but it's harder to judge town because I mentally connect good players with town players and that's just not always correct. I started to re-read the first few pages but it's hard to be objective about my crap. I certainly cringed reading it. To be fair, though.. you've made three posts and two were (mostly) about me. I hope you also will be contributing elsewhere. I'm curious- I know why others think Panda is scum and I know why I don't, why don't you?

Shamrock- I can try to consolidate but I'm a wordy girl, sorry. I reentered the game to play it right, so don't worry, I'll be asking questions and doing my part. But I'm not as experienced so I don't pick up on all things. It's not an excuse, just an explanation. I'm always working on making my play better though, so constructive criticism is welcome (despite what you might think).

[absta101]

@Starbuck

How so?

Most of your questions seem forced and pointless.

I'm curious as to what you have learned.

That's too much work, i'm not going to try to remember everything.
Look at it this way. Everything I display here represents what i've learned.

And now, what do you think?

Dude...
Now I think that posts without votes are just as useful.

Why would "pressure wagons" be the only way to get out of RVS?

Because that's all I knew.

These questions are pointless. From now i'm only going to answer questions that are actually important.
----

@Panda

Elmo is playing very consistently for Elmo and well every game someone thinks he is scum for it.

I think Elmo used this excuse in my most recent game when he was SK. This doesn't convince me he's town for obvious reasons.
Rach your play here looks a lot like your scum play. You always stay in the background, taking part in little to no scumhunting.
----

@Everyone

Noraa stop defending yourself and scumhunt. You're starting too make me question my read on you.

Kyle what do you think of everyone else?

[Slandaar]

What Panda(Rach) thinks the scumslip is;

That he thought there were only 2 scum instead of 3 (hence the 2/13 instead of 3/13) I have done that too before when in non newbie games.

How Panda(Rach) reads it as not a scumslip;

Could it be that he did not pay attention to

the fact there are 3 scum in this setup

? In my experience, scum are more likely to pay closer attention to those

Also, 2/13 chance of being scum instead of 3/13 chance still sounds to me as a mixup by a townie not by a scum.

Rach knew there are 3 scum in the setup how could what she perceives as the slip be debated? Its an open setup with 3 scum, so, saying he thinks there are 2 scum is clearly not a slip.

@Panda(Rach): Please look at the below;

Now, as we all know, its a well known fact only town ever post first in a thread, therefore, I am now conftown!

How valid is this tell if it's not mentioned?

not likely to say, but there's a 2/13 chance of it being true lol

How does this indicate that Friday thinks there are only two scum?

It is possibly a slip where he was intending to write the odds that I am town (9/13 assuming he puts himself as town) but used the odds for his team rather than the town. This tends to be the most logical explanation I can come up with as the number seems completely random otherwise.

[Sawyer]

@ Sawyer I think you missed the point my other head was trying to make which was that

ABSTA

was buddying noraa hard.

Right now, it doesn't matter to me if he's buddying because we don't know anyone's alignment. I'll make connections like that on Day 2 if possible. Personally, I too think Nora is probably over emotional town. That won't make any future scumminess any less worse, but that's my position and Absta seems to be making it clear that's his. Plus Nora defended herself aplenty, so I doubt he'd feel the need to help her with that.

Your other head also seemed like he wasn't happy with Nora possibly being thought of as town at all. While it's understandable to say her reaction is null, I see no reason to try and force it to look scummy (which it looked like he was doing).

Unvote for now. Seems like the only case on absta101 is the reaction to Slandaar's post 8, and I've done worse as town.

Yeah, that seemed to be the only case... and it's the same one you voted him for. Though you made no indication that you think that case no longer holds up, so why unvote now when you've "done worse as town"? If you've done worse as town (implying it's not a big deal), why did you vote him for it earlier and continue to push the issue? It just seems like you're leaving Abstas wagon after it's lost steam and you're getting ready to hop onto the one that's picking up speed.

While perhaps the irreverent rambling of an easily offended townie, I find her complete lack of scumhunting worthy enough for my vote.

So you have seen no scummy behavior yet from anybody?

[Natalie]

Hmm...pointing out a questionable town read on yourself in the RVS, what's not to not like?

...Damn, that sentence was awkward.

Tbh, it wasn't that bad at all, but at that stage it was enough to vote on.

Explain questionable in more detail.

Explain why you are actually voting me quoting a post and voting while saying 'Well actually it wasn't that bad but its RVS lol' is not a reason.

Do you believe I believe my first post? do you think I think it actually makes me conftown? what was the purpose of my post?

1.I will confess that I can't say why self-reporting a questionable town tell in jest is scummy, but it did bother me on a gut level. I was trying my best given the one post before my vote.
2.I quoted that post because that's the post you asked the question in.
3.I don't know if you believe it, do you?

Your questioning after the vote does seem town, though.

Unvote

Backtracking

So, why do you need me to explain anything for you to consider unvoting?

In the off chance that you were actually being serious about being conf town because you were first. After reviewing the setup, being first would most likely suggest the opposite alignment.
I was suspicious of you because you

were

the first.

Anyway, you seem very genuine so far.

unvote

Likewise.
VOTE: Shamrock

Backtracking

Welcome Starbuck.

Reason for the hydra is Elmo has limited time with work right now , so we got together for this. my bf NS helped me set up the hydra. I am going to sort through these pages and from what I have seen so far we are already getting out of RVS into real discussion.

My RVS vote (if Elmo agreed) was going to be on Absta.

@Shamrock? why are you so SURE it is a scum slip on the part of 13th? Could it be that he did not pay attention to the fact there are 3 scum in this setup? In my experience, scum are more likely to pay closer attention to those kind of details than town ESPECIALLY to how much scum there are.

@ Slandaar and Absta could you two give us something about the rest of the players and stop wrestling with each other for a moment or two?

More later after a chat with Elmo

Why did you need to discuss an RVS vote?

Noraa looks like flailing scum. She wasn't even under that much pressure. Why is it so bad to be called an investigator?

Starbuck basically covered anything I would have said in Post 58.

Reading noraa's AtE walls is so painful...

And absta saves the day by whiteknighting noraa. Absta, you don't think noraa's posts can come from a scum PoV? Her genuineness was not due to her alignment. It didn't really have much to do with the game :/

Sigh...why is everyone calling noraa town? I don't really understand what she is mad about (people nitpicking, belittling, using the word investigation?) but that can happen to scum too, unless I am misunderstanding what she is upset about. Don't let her AtE fool you into thinking she's bona fide town.

@Everyone

Noraa stop defending yourself and scumhunt. You're starting too make me question my read on you.

Kyle what do you think of everyone else?

Why did you make this @Everyone?

VOTE: noraa

She has defended herself using AtE and got all upset and defensive over nothing. In addition to that, after her so-called epiphany, she still hasn't scumhunted.

I might be missing something though, because I don't understand what her genuineness has to do with her alignment. Can someone (besides noraa) explain why scum have to fake whatever she is angry about?

[Scigatt]

Yeah, that seemed to be the only case... and it's the same one you voted him for. Though you made no indication that you think that case no longer holds up, so why unvote now when you've "done worse as town"? If you've done worse as town (implying it's not a big deal), why did you vote him for it earlier and continue to push the issue? It just seems like you're leaving Abstas wagon after it's lost steam and you're getting ready to hop onto the one that's picking up speed.

I initially voted for him as part of sheeping your vote. There were things that I later objected to, but the way he handled them didn't indicate scumminess to me. By the time I realized that the post 8 reaction was the only thing scummy, the rest of his posts made it look like it was probably an honest mistake. If I wanted to get on an active wagon, I could have said I was still sheeping you and just hopped on. The reason I merely unvoted was that I didn't want to do that, but see the reactions of others to the wagon. I thought Shamrock's jump onto the Purrfect Panda wagon was suspicious, and I'm getting a bad gut feeling on kyle99. I'm willing to give Purrfect Panda the benefit of the doubt, given post 104. I you want me to cast a vote, I'll do so, otherwise I'll stick to what I said earlier.

[absta101]

Okay seriously, this is the last time i'm talking for Noraa. Even after I help her (and us) out she still doesn't participate in anything other than talking about herself. I'm moving her down to a null-leaning town read.
----

Starbuck

is now one of my strong scum reads. (After evaluation)

1.

Noraa is a somewhat strong town read to her yet she's still voting her.
She says that she was voting for pressure and that she really finds Noraa to be town (post #69) which to me is total bs. The beginnings of post #58 and especially post #68 were obviously trying to convince everyone that Noraa is scum.
Starbuck would have unvoted in post #72 if she was voting for pressure.

2.

Her questions to me are way awkward and forced generally leading in no direction that could determine my alignment.

3.

When reading her ISO I noticed that her posts have way less content when she's attempting to "scumhunt" than when she's arguing with Noraa.

If I wasn't voting Panda right now i'd be voting her.
----

@Nat

I might be missing something though, because I don't understand what her genuineness has to do with her alignment. Can someone (besides noraa) explain why scum have to fake whatever she is angry about?

In terms of Ate scum almost always fake it.
Most of you are accusing her of being scum because she reacted strongly for something so little. I agree that that could be a sign of scum getting frightened or upset when people get too close. However, i've explained my theory (with evidence) of why she acted out like that and frankly I don't want to repeat myself.

What's your opinion on the theory of there being a large scum density in the first couple of pages?

[Robocopter87]

I prodded MontyWhittaker and friday-13th.

Will just create a brand new VC on the next page, free of errors. (Hopefully. I'll really check well)

[Starbuck]

Scigatt

What's wrong with white knighting? In this situation I can see how it might be warranted.

There's a difference between defending someone and white knighting. noraaa got herself into the situation that she was in, had she just simply replied to the questions (because I was trying to figure out her way of thinking) rather than flip out on everyone, she wouldn't need someone to "white knight" her. It very much feels to me like he's using that to buddy up to her.

Given my initial gut feeling about him when I began the game and started reading. I'm not trusting him a bit.

noraaa

I felt that there was no need to provide examples of things that had happened earlier on the same page as you could easily just look back up and see them. It's not hard to see the three people posting at the time and see which one of them is saying what about me.

It wasn't that I couldn't look back up and see it. When you are trying to explain a point, especially in mafia, you explain it to the best of your ability but also refer to exactly what you are talking about (via quotes, links, whatever). The fact that you didn't do that in first place and just kept referring to who said things as "a group of individuals" shows to me that you possibly didn't care enough which could lead myself to believing that you are scum. I feel that town, especially, would go out of their way to set things right.

Every person posting at that time when I (admittedly) checked out, was telling me that I had been doing that investigation (which I guess bothered me because it felt like it was being dismissed as something worthy of being done, and I wasn't even doing it.. I had made literally like two posts and only opened up at request about my vote, so I wouldn't consider that an investigation at all.

It's just the word that everyone uses. It seemed like you had an end point to your thinking (depending on what the answers would be), so I figured you'd wait for a response and then either ask more questions or stop. Even though, it's small, it's still an investigation in its own way.

As for asking for it to be dropped.. I just was sick of clogging up the game with something

It wasn't clogging up the game (in my eyes). We had a chance to learn more about you and you just cut that off. When I see something like that, it's either someone who is nervous scum or genuine town.

Purrfect Panda

@Starbuck We do not yet have a specific case on Noraa, I want to read her walls first, and Elmo does not read walls. Elmo often sees certain tells and goes with gut, I tend to be a tad more passive and sift through everything for the big picture before making a decision on who is scum.

So if you haven't read what she's said, how can you have an opinion one way or the other?

Shamrock

Shamrock's vote on friday-13th is absolutely terrible.

Why?

As scum were able to communicate to choose which powers that the town received, I would think that if he was scum that he wouldn't make that mistake. He'd go out of his way to make sure that he had the right number. I don't believe its a scum slip as there are clearly 3 scum in the setup.

But also, he could be writing it as a ratio. That he believes there's a 2 in 13 chance of Slandaar being confirmed town, which is how I read it.

Sawyer

Right now, it doesn't matter to me if he's buddying because we don't know anyone's alignment. I'll make connections like that on Day 2 if possible.

There's no reason why that can't noted now as a possible connection.

I doubt he'd feel the need to help her with that.

But the point is that he did.

Your other head also seemed like he wasn't happy with Nora possibly being thought of as town at all. While it's understandable to say her reaction is null, I see no reason to try and force it to look scummy (which it looked like he was doing).

I do agree with this which is why I was asking them to provide a case.

absta101

@Starbuck

How so?

Most of your questions seem forced and pointless.

I'm curious as to what you have learned.

That's too much work, i'm not going to try to remember everything.
Look at it this way. Everything I display here represents what i've learned.

And now, what do you think?

Dude...
Now I think that posts without votes are just as useful.

Why would "pressure wagons" be the only way to get out of RVS?

Because that's all I knew.

These questions are pointless. From now i'm only going to answer questions that are actually important.

Why are my questions pointless? I'm wondering if you have grown as a player, given that at the start of this game, you said that you felt that posts without votes are useless which now you have a different opinion.

I have a hard time believing that given how many games that you may have played that the only way you've known how to get out of RVS are pressure votes.

So why are my questions to you pointless? How are you going to deem which questions are "actually important"? That's not a particularly town attitude.

Unvote
Vote: absta101

[Natalie]

@Nat

I might be missing something though, because I don't understand what her genuineness has to do with her alignment. Can someone (besides noraa) explain why scum have to fake whatever she is angry about?

In terms of Ate scum almost always fake it.
Most of you are accusing her of being scum because she reacted strongly for something so little. I agree that that could be a sign of scum getting frightened or upset when people get too close. However, i've explained my theory (with evidence) of why she acted out like that and frankly I don't want to repeat myself.

What's your opinion on the theory of there being a large scum density in the first couple of pages?

Well I think sCum can have genuine AtE tOo, but we'll agree to disagree.

You get townPoints for bringing that theory up, but I don't think Robo would open up the thread right after scum picked the PRs.

However, it is possible that scum were waiting for the thread to open up, while town were waiting for a PM. I think flips of the early posters are what will determine if your theory has any merit to it.

[Starbuck]

Natalie

Welcome to the game.

Why is everyone calling noraa town? I don't really understand what she is mad about (people nitpicking, belittling, using the word investigation?) but that can happen to scum too, unless I am misunderstanding what she is upset about. Don't let her AtE fool you into thinking she's bona fide town.

Bona fide, no, but town, probably.

absta101

Starbuck is now one of my strong scum reads. (After evaluation)
1. Noraa is a somewhat strong town read to her yet she's still voting her.
She says that she was voting for pressure and that she really finds Noraa to be town (post #69) which to me is total bs. The beginnings of post #58 and especially post #68 were obviously trying to convince everyone that Noraa is scum.
Starbuck would have unvoted in post #72 if she was voting for pressure.
2. Her questions to me are way awkward and forced generally leading in no direction that could determine my alignment.
3. When reading her ISO I noticed that her posts have way less content when she's attempting to "scumhunt" than when she's arguing with Noraa.

1. This is a completely weak argument. I kept my vote on her until she came back and I had a chance to read her new posts. I posted before I went to class last night (which started at 5 and ended around 8:45) and after class, I went directly to karaoke. Now, I'm working on catching up on what I missed. It would be a different situation if I hadn't posted for another two or three days then I could see this argument being valid, but in this situation, absolutely not.

As I said above, I do want to give her a chance to immerse herself now that she's moved on from the dramatics of earlier. I think rushing onto her right now to lynch is particularly scummy.

How are the beginnings of #58 and #68 trying to convince of noraaa being scum? Can you provide examples to back this up?


2. You may feel that the questions aren't leading in a direction to determine your alignment, but I believe the opposite. This also includes your disdain and complete dismissal of everything that I've asked of you.

Besides being curious about the way you think, I'm also determining things via your reaction. I believe that someone who is town would want to fully explain themselves, but rather than answer, you are striving to discredit me by saying that my questions are "not important", "pointless", and "forced".

3. We are on page 5 and I didn't join this game until the game was midway through page 2. So I didn't get the luxury of joining in on RVS. Also, noraaa's situation was something that I wanted to investigate and for the record, who else did investigate it?