A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[Eddard Stark]

Day 1, Votecount 1

MagnaofIllusion (3) - Starbuck, Benmag, pappums rat
Mastermind of Sin (1) - sword_of_omens

Starbuck (4) - Dolorous Edd, Tyene Sand, Staeg, Minimum

Not Voting (20):

Lyanna Stark, Mockingjaye, Petyr Baelish, Hyperion, MagnaofIllusion, Plum's Yo Mamma, redFF, hasdgfas, Shadow1psc, Regfan, Bvoigt, Mastermind of Sin, Plessiezarus, Feysal, Pandora, Salamence20, BBmolla, SnowStorm, Jal, StefanB

With 28 alive it takes 15 to lynch.

• Deadline
  : 3rd September at 11:59pm Ireland time. (GMT+1)
  
• Countdown to deadline
  : (expired on 2012-09-03 18:59:59)
  
• redFF is V/la until Friday.

CHOOSE DEATH

Lyanna Stark (1) - Tyene Sand

MagnaofIllusion (2) - Minimum, sword_of_omens

Benmage (1) - Benmage

Not Choosing (24):

Lyanna Stark, Mockingjaye, Dolorous Edd, Staeg, Petyr Baelish, Hyperion, MagnaofIllusion, NachoPlum, redFF, hasdgfas, Shadow1psc, Regfan, pappums rat,, Bvoigt, Mastermind of Sin, Plessiezarus, Feysal, Pandora, Salamence20, Starbuck, BBmolla, SnowStorm, Jal, StefanB

With 28 alive it takes 15 to 'Choose'.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: D Edd

Choose: MoI

That's all for the moment.

[Benmage]

Mina why did you switch your rvs already?

[Plessiezarus]

Vote: Snowstorm

Welcome to Mafiascum. ~Zar.

[Dolorous Edd]

I'm not Tammy, Minimum, I'm Tierce. Tammy = Lyanna.

We'll see.

Choosing should be policy lynch central since I can easily imagine choosing scum and giving that scumbag a strongman vig being worse for the town than taking out 2 townies that would otherwise get mislynched or screw up in some other way.

Umm, I don’t see this (the part about picking scum can be worse that 2 townies dying). Scum already have a nightkill. Giving them one extra vig shot cannot cause that much more mayhem, esp vs killing a scum off. Plus it would lower down the suspect pool if they’re a suspicious person.

In either case, I see killing off a suspicious person doing more good than harm. Choosing someone out of policy is pointless. Why no policy lynch the first day and have the suspicious person sent to kill Snow instead?

[Dolorous Edd]

Deadline

: 3rd August at 11:59pm Ireland time. (GMT+1)

Oh dear. We're going backwards in time :/

~Fixed.

[Dolorous Edd]

Mina why did you switch your rvs already?

I could've sworn that second vote was a bit more serious, no? Esp considering Starbuck's awkward start.

Are you his scumbuddy?

[Starbuck]

Worriedmuch?

No. I just think people would be more careful about who they Choose than just treating it like a random vote.

I'd rather not pre-determine the suicide vig's target, since town picks worse than random most of the time anyway due to scum input.

+1

Why is everyone choosing so whimsically?

That's my thought exactly.

[Benmage]

Mina why did you switch your rvs already?

I could've sworn that second vote was a bit more serious, no? Esp considering Starbuck's awkward start.

Are you his scumbuddy?

Yep.

[Minimum]

Vote: MoI

for loving all the same fandoms that I do.


I'm a little surprised at the quick Chooses right out the gate before you can even get a bead on reads.

What's the difference between a choose before you can get any reads and a vote before you can get any reads?

@Edd: because a scum vig will choose someone who is either obviously town, a likely power role, or the biggest threat to them...and unlike a normal nightkill, there's no chance of interfering with it. As long as the player we choose is someone the scum would probably not want to nightkill, we still come out ahead to choosing scum. (Why not just lynch or vig the obvscum target we'd have chosen instead?)

But since the ideal choose target should be both someone everyone wants dead and town, both a good policy lynch and also likely to make a good vig choice, the whole thing is something of a paradox.

Or alternately, just choose MagnaofIllusion.

[Benmage]

You're overthinking it Mina (how surprising)... We use it as a second lynch, and thats it. PL or scummy or whatever.

Also you missed my question on why you voted SB.

[Plessiezarus]

Umm, I don’t see this (the part about picking scum can be worse that 2 townies dying)

. Scum already have a nightkill. Giving them one extra vig shot cannot cause that much more mayhem

, esp vs killing a scum off. Plus it would lower down the suspect pool if they’re a suspicious person.

In either case, I see killing off a suspicious person doing more good than harm. Choosing someone out of policy is pointless. Why no policy lynch the first day and have the suspicious person sent to kill Snow instead?

I beg to disagree? Giving a potential scum a strongman kill sounds like an extremely bad idea. You'd be basically giving them an unstoppable freebie for signing off plus their factional kill.

~Zar

[Minimum]

Benmage, you should probably learn to tell me and CES apart soon, or this game will get confusing for you. I'm pretty sure I know why he voted her even though he hasn't told me, though.

Why do you find that vote particularly interesting?

Vote: MoI

for loving all the same fandoms that I do.


I'm a little surprised at the quick Chooses right out the gate before you can even get a bead on reads.

VOTE: D Edd

Choose: MoI

That's all for the moment.

After how long you've been looking forward to this game, you're totally okay with dying on D1? Not going to argue with the meanies ganging up on you?

(Likewise for Benmage, except strike the meanies part.)

[MagnaofIllusion]

After how long you've been looking forward to this game, you're totally okay with dying on D1? Not going to argue with the meanies ganging up on you?

(Likewise for Benmage, except strike the meanies part.)

VOTE: Minimum

Why so worried?

[Feysal]

VOTE: MagnaofIllusion

Obviously.

I'd rather not pre-determine the suicide vig's target, since town picks worse than random most of the time anyway due to scum input.

This is a thoroughly weird statement. If it were true, how would towns ever lynch correctly?

I agree with Dolorous, to an extent. This is a suicide mission, so we have no way of forcing the assassin to kill who we want. Therefore the ultimate decision lies with the vig, but in the meantime we should of course offer our input. What does it matter anyway how we dispose of suspect players? From the scumhunting point of view, none. Everything we say will influence the choice made by whoever we eventually send, and right or wrong, what we say will be used to determine where our own loyalties lie.

Choose: Tyene Sand

[Salamence20]

VOTE: Minimum

Choose: MoI

[Dolorous Edd]

I agree with Dolorous, to an extent. This is a suicide mission, so we have no way of forcing the assassin to kill who we want. Therefore the ultimate decision lies with the vig, but in the meantime we should of course offer our input. What does it matter anyway how we dispose of suspect players? From the scumhunting point of view, none. Everything we say will influence the choice made by whoever we eventually send, and right or wrong, what we say will be used to determine where our own loyalties lie.

This.

Everytime we lynch, scum is putting their input in. But majority is always with town. So picking a target for the mission commander, if he's town, will be like picking a lynch.

OTOH, if the commander strongly disagrees, he can pick his own target. He's town, so it will be town-minded. But that doesn't mean town shouldn't offer their input just because scum have some influence.

[Starbuck]

What's the difference between a choose before you can get any reads and a vote before you can get any reads?

I guess there really isn't one. I just would rather put my Choose vote on someone that could be trusted to follow through on the action rather than give it scum or a policy lynch.

I know we can gain info from the Choose votes, but I still question those who immediately Chose someone because, again, it should not fall into the hands of the scum.

[Minimum]

After how long you've been looking forward to this game, you're totally okay with dying on D1? Not going to argue with the meanies ganging up on you?

(Likewise for Benmage, except strike the meanies part.)

VOTE: Minimum

Why so worried?

It's because I'm terrified that if you're chosen today, you'll vig scum and weaken my team. Because I'm incapable of moving my own vote off you right now, so all I can do is discourage other people (such as yourself) from placing one.

Or, you know, because your self-vote is odd and I want to know your motivations behind placing it.

[hasdgfas]

Vote: Minimum

Choose: Dolorous Edd

Two scum caught already. Beautiful.

VOTE: MagnaofIllusion

Obviously.

I'd rather not pre-determine the suicide vig's target, since town picks worse than random most of the time anyway due to scum input.

This is a thoroughly weird statement. If it were true, how would towns ever lynch correctly?

I agree with Dolorous, to an extent. This is a suicide mission, so we have no way of forcing the assassin to kill who we want. Therefore the ultimate decision lies with the vig, but in the meantime we should of course offer our input. What does it matter anyway how we dispose of suspect players? From the scumhunting point of view, none. Everything we say will influence the choice made by whoever we eventually send, and right or wrong, what we say will be used to determine where our own loyalties lie.

Choose: Tyene Sand

Yes, everything we say will influence them, but we're not going to treat it like another lynch. Like a normal vig, it's a

much

better idea to have them make their own decision, because lynches still have a much higher level of scum input than a vig choosing who to shoot on their own.

[Tyene Sand]

Why is everyone choosing so whimsically? It should be peoples #2 scum suspect... and it pointless to do now.

What makes you think the choices have been whimsical? Mine was far from it.

Choosing should be policy lynch central since I can easily imagine choosing scum and giving that scumbag a strongman vig being worse for the town than taking out 2 townies that would otherwise get mislynched or screw up in some other way.

Giving potential scum a vig N1 does not seem, in any way, a harmful thing. Unless they have day powers, there is no way they will know for certain who is a PR come N1. A 1-for-1 trade when we are at the least-information state would be wonderful, though the odds obviously are on town-killing-other-town. Scum getting a suicide vig that they

must

use on N1 would be the least of our problems.

I'd rather not pre-determine the suicide vig's target, since town picks worse than random most of the time anyway due to scum input.

This is a thoroughly weird statement. If it were true, how would towns ever lynch correctly?

I agree with Dolorous, to an extent. This is a suicide mission, so we have no way of forcing the assassin to kill who we want. Therefore the ultimate decision lies with the vig, but in the meantime we should of course offer our input. What does it matter anyway how we dispose of suspect players? From the scumhunting point of view, none. Everything we say will influence the choice made by whoever we eventually send, and right or wrong, what we say will be used to determine where our own loyalties lie.

Choose: Tyene Sand

It's a true statement, and I find it odd that you of all people would take issue with it--town

does

vote/lynch worse than random in most situations. Scumhunting is hard, otherwise the game would be no fun. A town vig is town and town alone, and even if they get things wrong, we know there was no tampering, etc. (They'll be dead anyway, so motivation is kind of pointless but still.) PEdit: O

Has

hai Cow.

There is nothing wrong with stating who we'd like to be our nominal Jon Snow, but I disagree with attempts to direct actions on N1.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

I'm a little surprised at the quick Chooses right out the gate before you can even get a bead on reads.

I'm surprised that you're surprised. We do vote right off the bat without reads. This is a bonus lynch with potential extra bonus (or moderate detriment, but still an extra lynch Day 1, which is nice).

VOTE: Starbuck

P-edit: tierce, you're wrong, vigs have a much lower % of hitting scum than lynches, so yeah.

Some players are very good Vigs (or situationally have the potential to Vig better than Lynch percentage).

If we want to choose a policy-Lynchee type of approach, well, usually the players apt to garner serious policy lynch votes are unlikely to use Vig kills to best advantage.

I beg to disagree? Giving a potential scum a strongman kill sounds like an extremely bad idea. You'd be basically giving them an unstoppable freebie for signing off plus their factional kill.

~Zar

What Benmage said. 1-for-1 Town-for-scum trades are worth it basically by definition.

Choose: Dolorous Edd

Sheeping Cow some. But having thought about sheeping him, the following:

I'm a little surprised at the quick Chooses right out the gate before you can even get a bead on reads.

Worriedmuch?

VOTE: Starbuck

But no Choose vote input in that post. For that matter, he's paragraphing musing about Choosing scum? Right, okay. What.

[Feysal]

I just would rather put my Choose vote on someone that could be trusted to follow through on the action rather than give it scum or a policy lynch.

Do I understand right? You don't want to choose either scum or a policy lynch candidate, but you would rather send a town read in the hopes that said town read vigs scum?

I know we can gain info from the Choose votes, but I still question those who immediately Chose someone because, again, it should not fall into the hands of the scum.

First of all, the likelihood of someone getting locked as the assassin during RVS is no higher than someone being lynched in RVS. We have 28 players in game, most of whom have not even posted yet. You can't seriously be worried that someone would suddenly be chosen at this stage.

Secondly, you don't want to choose scum? Are you out of your mind? If we choose scum, in the best case said scum misses town and cross kills rival scum, and in the worst case he kills town, resulting in a one for one trade. If we choose town, in the best case said town succeeds at killing scum, and in the worst case he misses and kills town, resulting in two town members lost. On night one, working from limited information, the worst case scenario is far more likely too. When the best case scenario of choosing town is the same as the worst case scenario of choosing scum, it should be obvious what we should do.

UNVOTE: MagnaofIllusion
VOTE: Starbuck

[Dolorous Edd]

If we choose scum,

in the best case said scum misses town and cross kills rival scum

, and in the worst case he kills town, resulting in a one for one trade.

This is multiball?

How can you be so sure (unless it's made obv somewhere)?

[Tyene Sand]

UNCHOOSE: Lyanna Stark
CHOOSE: Feysal

PEdit: That.