A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[Tyene Sand]

I've played with Tammy before. She is a decent scumhunter, but gets too wrapped in emotions during the game. Would I trust her with a gun N1, if she is town? Yes. Would I have her out of the game N1? Yes.

I have also played with Tammy before. I would trust her with a kill, but I would not want her out of the game this early. She is one of my strongest town reads, and I would have her with me in LYLO if I could.

This has an implication that twists the context of my words. That was my Choice before Tammy posted. It was not whimsical, it was not RVS, but it did not actually have to do with my reads

in the game

, since

she had not posted

.

Feysal, do you think that Tierce disagreeing on proper Choose theory is an alignment tell, and why? Also, thoughts on Starbuck's VT claim and self-Choose? I'm not particularly interested in whether you scum-slipped, but I feel like you've been attacking people for differences in Mafia theory instead of for behaviour that's scum-motivated.

My original Choice on Tierce was due to her not wanting to direct the assassin, for a reason that was so nonsensical it seemed like an excuse. It was not much to go on, but enough for that early. Now though my Choice remains on her because her behavior seems unlike what I just saw from her as town in an ongoing game. For one thing, while I don't know how I expected her to react to my post #224, I did not expect her to ignore it completely and quietly move off my wagon.

I didn't ignore it, I simply saw no point in commenting on your reply, as I was proven wrong and acted accordingly by shifting off that wagon. Do note you are not part of my scumreads. Don't expect me to go in a All Hail Feysal The Obvtown soliloquy when I shift off your wagon because I have a better read on someone else/am willing to sheep a townread; you became a null read, I moved to somewhere I believe has a better chance of flipping scum.

[bvoigt]

Quick question, is posting on the alts role related, cause that's going to kill me.

What was the purpose of asking this?

P-edit: tierce, you're wrong, vigs have a much lower % of hitting scum than lynches, so yeah.

Out of curiosity, is there data on this somewhere?

I would agree that our Choose should be used as a 2nd lynch. But with that being said, I think Starbuck is town. First of all, I don't think scum would want to so vocally disagree with the opinions of most of the town. And (more importantly) #75 and the early VT claim in #76 definitely sound like a confused townie.

I don't think Feysal scumslipped. (But with that being said, the people who pointed out his high level of theory to content have a point. His vote in #47 simply seems like a disagreement in theory to me.) Salamance's wagon hop in #56 looks pretty bad. Tyene, on the other hand, seemed genuine in her suspicions.

Regfan's #99 looks townish.

@Minimum

-

Looks at you … looks at my title …. looks back at you

. Not sure what is rocket science in understanding why I Chose myself.

Now – I’d like you to detail what possible scum motivatioin I have in wanting to make sure I die Night 1. Go!

While selfchoosing is probably a towntell in most cases (like Starbuck's), the way that MoI selfchose, then pointed out that scum wouldn't do it, gives me bad vibes.

Yeah, this is a crappy post, but some content is better than none, I guess.

[Regfan]

Minimum, your posts are still missing the one thing I want to see from you, reads alongside with reasoning. Your responses to MoI/MoS/Stefan are very easily fakable and don't actually tell me anything about you at all, plus I think the debates and conversations with them are fairly useless.

MoI and Cow, is your scum reads or desire for Shadow to die because you're confident in him being scum or because you think he's useless and a good policyish based lynch or shot because I just re-read everything of his and it actually comes across as very town (Though fairly sure MoI won't agree with the reasoning behind it), his lack of care about the image he was putting forward of himself in his earlier posts is a decent town-tell and matches his town meta whereas his play in Kdubs game where he was mafia was relatively different. His walls behind what he thinks is optimal town play comes across as him really believing it and his stance of "Want to wait until later on Mina/agree with her post" is super natural, plus don't think Shadow!Scum would protect Mina!Scum if they were partners and don't think he'd defend her if she was town as it'd just be increasing the odds of the lynch being moved to him or him being run up if she flips scum.

Don't know if anyone answered this, but yes, Hyperion is GreatJim. Oh wait I remember Regfan posting a link to a game they played in on site.

Regfan

- Hyperion was Olivia Dunham in the Fringe game. He was also Aviendha in the WoT game.

His play has changed a lot from when he was Aviendha, a lot so comparing him to his play in that game is useless. As Olivia his play was actually decent and his analysis and comments in the game were genuine, plus his comments and analysis in the game that I linked of me playing with him were of a super high quality, something that his posts in this game don't show at all. I'll agree the difference isn't a super-scum-tell but it's most certainly not null.

[hasdgfas]

If you believe play is optimal town play, you will say that regardless of alignment. I have some weird thoughts on things(like people who claim scum are more likely scum) that other people don't agree with, but I still push it regardless of alignment when I see it. That's where my desire for shadow to die comes from, to answer that question and also reply to your town read on him for what I believe to be a null tell.

[Amrun]

I have some weird thoughts on things(like people who claim scum are more likely scum) that other people don't agree with, but I still push it regardless of alignment when I see it.

> can attest to this

>.>

[Minimum]

(p-edit: Regfan, hold your horses. I've been working on a post with just that, but wanted to do some studying first. That said, I suspect that my question to Mastermind of Sin will be a lot more useful (well, to

me

, anyway) than yet another wall full of my wishy-washy and probably incorrect thoughts.)

Thanks, Tammy! Except I just looked at some sample questions, and I'm completely fucked--especially since I might need an 80% (depending on which department guidelines are lying to me). Why the fuck do I need to know what "arrhes" means to get by in a math program?

=========================================================================

Anyway, where I'm at:

I don't have a problem with all the attention being focused on the three S's (Salamence20, Snow_Storm, and to a lesser extent Shadow). Already explained my problems with

Salamence

. Although I generally find

Snow_Storm

hard to read (and was previously lukewarm on him), but Tammyanna's points on him (that he has no scum reads, and that his vote on Benmage is super-dissonant) are very strong.

I buy

Shadow

's stance on me, and it makes me sad to turn on him when he's the only one white-knighting me (I could appreciate some buddying right now), but I find Shadow's early play here more similar to AFFC (where he was contrarian and petty in a conscious effort to mimic his town meta) than to ASoS and GvE (where he got tetchy at points, but was full of adorable protown eagerness). My scumread of him waned somewhat when he discussed his beliefs about D1 theory, but those could be genuine regardless of alignment. I also don't remember him being a hardline anti-D1 contributor before. That said, I'm willing to give him some time to see if he delivers on his promise to contribute later. Shadow's alignment will become apparent with time.

(As an aside, Regfan, this is why I don't think total transparency is always ideal--I read your post defending Shadow, and to some extent, it influenced me to go, "Oh, gee, maybe Shadow isn't that scummy after all." Imagine if you'd caught me making a bad frame case on Shadow or something.)

Completely disagree with Regfan saying that

sword_of_omens

saying "WE kill scum" is a town tell. His opening post and the reads he espoused in it were pretty bad, although I need more from him.

bvoigt

, you're right--that catch-up post

did

suck, for a number of reasons (and

not

because it was short). Already complained about

Mastermind of Sin

's Tierce vote; I hate that he consistently uses his laziness as a shield in game after game. What makes me lean scum on him is that when he has contributed this game, he chooses completely tangential points to focus on (like the terrible Tammy thing).

redFF

could easily be scum, I guess. (CES chose him in part on policy and in part for a lack of scumhunting.)

Tammy Stark

is capital-T town.

Regfan

and to a lesser extent

Tierce Sand

look very town too.

Pandora

is probtown pending me changing my mind on a reread, because I've sort of skimmed their posts.

Plessiezarus

is leaning town ("leaning" mostly because Pless hasn't crossed the threshold into "town without a doubt" like he has in the games I've seen him in before); I find Zar tends to look more...oily as scum, and I buy the glimpses into their hydra discussions.

Staeg

is probably town simply because he's not obvscum and hopping mindlessly from wagon to wagon--he's actually putting some thought into his votes and stances. When I ISO'd

MagnaofIllusion

, I was surprised to find that he looked a lot more town than I thought he would.

I'm not willing to confidently call

BBmolla

town (his play is sloppy--his vote and sudden unvote for us when we called him on it was weird--and I think he's capable of faking reaction tests as scum), but I did get town vibes from his reaction to Snow_Storm and Salamence.

Liked

Edd

's earlier posts, didn't like his attack on Starbuck, and have kind of skimmed over his later posts, so it's tempting to take the Westeros crew's word that he's playing like town Arthur (I don't think I'm as familiar with Ser-Arthur's meta as everyone else is). I don't think I can read

Hyperion

at all, because he's usually a lynchbait player. I know he was obviously scummy and wishy-washy and flagrantly lurked when he was scum and I replaced him on Westeros. I need to ISO both of them.

I don't remember

Cow

being this overconfident and prone to exaggeration when I've seen him play before, but the bravado has an obvious town motivation even if it's faked. More likely town than scum, but I'm not as certain of it as everyone else is (maybe because I dislike most of his reads, and he acts as though he's convinced that every single player he suspects within the first few pages is obvious confirmed scum).

Plum

is totally null for me. It would shock me if there were only 0-1 scum on my wagon, so I could see Plum being competent scum, I guess.

Will get back to you on

Benmage

, since CES seems confident in his ability to read him. His initial drunken posting was terrible, but he's shown glimpses of Bossy Wannabe Leader Town Benmage with his lists of town and scum. I'm feeling a lot better about

Feysal

after that big post he wrote than I did before.

Have a weak town read on

StefanB

and a super-weak one on

Jal

based mostly on the tone of some of their posts.

Oh, and

Starbuck

is probably town. I think that's it for the people who have actually

posted

.

[BBmolla]

What was the purpose of asking this?

What was the purpose of asking

this?

Out of all the posts in this game

[BBmolla]

BB - You "played" in the Fringe game right? Did you see Hyperion vote me because I suggested a policy lynch on someone as a very obvious joke early day one? He was the one who gave me a flow chart of scumminess when I asked him about it.

Nope. I didn't.

(I wouldn't really call myself playing as much as throwing it. )

Does he have a history of skimming posts too?

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Spoiler: Older But Hopefully Still Relevant Stuff

Who said they were sure scum would shoot another scum? I mean, other than Feysal, and he got jumped on for having inside info that it's multiball...

You are frakking scummy. Also, whining about being caught for the 'wrong reasons', plausibly. Consider:

I'm actually really annoyed you said this actually. I'm trying to push for what's catching my eye and what's rubbing me the wrong way, and I get accused of fucking "double bandwagon hopping"? At least if I get accused or attacked of something, let it be partly true, other than just throwing shit in the air.

Uh, yeah. If the accusation is so unconnected to the actual content of your play, why do I see no attempts to question

why

Pandora would be making such accusations and attacks. No attempt to discern alignment? You sound ticked-off that a Townie is reading you as scum despite [what you're doing isn't scummy for you in your mind, so it's pretty unfair].

Pandora

is

pretty damned Town.

The whole “Is this or isn’t this Multiball” and resulting suspicion on multiple players on each side is really pretty bad. Odds are favorable that we are indeed in Multiball but making assumptions of scumminess based on those facts today (voting Feysal for a ‘slip’ for example) is at best bad play.

Thank you thank you thank you okay I'll go reread Minimum. Also apparently Nacho read Minimum some.

Sheeping Cow some.

If you were sheeping Cow why didn’t you vote Minimum? I don’t see the point in sheeping only his Choice and not his normal vote.

It was more 'hrm, there's Cow, the way he's behaving is rubbing me the right way and he's Choosing Edd . . . damned if Edd isn't rubbing me the wrong way'. I already had a vote I thought would be productive for the nonce. More accurate than saying I was sheeping Hascow, perhaps say that my investigation and suspicion of Edd was inspired a bit by Hascow, as I did do some reading on my own into Edd and worked with stuff that I myself found scummy.

---

So, notable things in the avalanche:

I talked with Nacho some, mostly about Minimum. In short, most of what feels off to me is his play towards MoI - Minimum snarkily questions MoI's self-Choose, shores it up by claiming to be investigating MoI's motivation for so doing, and . . . nothing much. A few posts and one sniping response to something MoI said later, the underwhelming conclusion that MoI's claimed reasoning looks okay, whatever. Nah, it's not obvTown of MoI to self-choose. It's odd to ask about the self-Choose and not directly address it as central to your conversation and interaction with MoI. And to say this later:

Believe it or not, I asked you why you self-Chose because I wanted to know why you self-Chose. I wasn't convinced it was a scumtell by any means. It might have been an emo "everyone hates me!" self-Choose. It might have been reaction-fishing. It might have been an attempt to diffuse the momentum against you by doing something to win town cred. I thought it seemed out of character given how much you'd have looked forward to this game (and also given that I'd expect you to be too proud to acquiesce to people calling you a "policy lynch"), so I pressed you on it. How exactly could an explanation from you hurt?

And I dunno why I saw basically none of that in the moment, but saw and continued to see ignoring MoI a lot. This . . .

might

be related to intra-hydra interaction, and it

may

be confirmation bias. But it feels somewhat disingenuous. I read MoI's challenges regarding what the scum motivation for self-Choosing would be as calling Minimum's questioning disingenuous, and Minimum's overall response to MoI - that MoI is likely Town, but repeatedly remarking against MoI and others for possibly implying that MoI's self-Choosing was obvTown. It just. Doesn't work right with me.

Hyperion is indubitably scummy and our vote is going there. VOTE: Hyperion I simply cannot put it in plainer words but that Hyperion is scum. If you need to ask I will line-by-line his contributions without resorting to ALL CAPS RAGE.

But Hyperion is very very scummy. And if he

is

total lynchbait and someone has very useful meta on him, please post or point out where it's been mentioned kthx.

I don't actually have a scumread on Shadow1

Salamance needs a bullet between the eyes. It is known.

StefanB reads scummy, even through the language barrier. Does this make me a bad person?

Will not be analyzing Snowstorm tonight.

Bvoigt pings my gut and will need feeling out soon.

Ta ta.

[BBmolla]

Did Nacho talk about me

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Nah, but he's not caught up with the thread and didn't talk about anyone specific unprompted.

[Minimum]

Eh, Plum, to be honest, I'm not following your train of thought, but it seems as though you're overrating just how important the self-Choose was to me. The game had just started. I was reacting to anything recent that happened, and I thought MoI's self-Choose was off (for reasons I've explained, over and over and

over

again). Then I left the thread for the next twenty-four hours.

I've only continued discussing the self-Choose because multiple people keep bringing it up and implying that it's absurd that I could entertain the notion that MoI's self-Choose wasn't pure of heart.

I mean...it's kind of hard to have an opinion on something as small as that stronger than "he's neither obvscum nor obvtown for it." It's not completely absurd that he wanted to have a N1 vig so his death would be meaningful (or that he's innocent even if it was a calculated attempt to milk it for town cred, because that's totally in character for him).

(Also, the realization that I didn't find MoI that suspicious in context only came after all the self-Choose discussion.)

Nacho-Plum are no longer null, though.

Now I'm going to bed.

[Plessiezarus]

Turns out being a hydra isn't a magical way of reducing the amount of work you need to put into a game after all. Who knew?

I suggest reading through this it's the ISO of the only game at mafiascum that I've played with Hyperion and the play there to here is very very different.

Read this (well, skimmed some of it). It is different, yeah. But it was a newbie game and his first on this site. His recent games at Westeros would seem to be more relevant, to me. Certainly his posts so far seem closer to the Fringe game (as town) than to his posts before being replaced in the First Law game (when he was scum). Did you really think he said anything particularly constructive or helpful

on day 1

in the Fringe game?. I still don't find him that suspicious.

Completely disagree with Regfan saying that

sword_of_omens

saying "WE kill scum" is a town tell. His opening post and the reads he espoused in it were pretty bad, although I need more from him.

Yeah, I don't like sword either. Zar suggests the lack of engagement could be a town-tell, though (I guess he can expand on that himself later).

Liked

Edd

's earlier posts, didn't like his attack on Starbuck, and have kind of skimmed over his later posts, so it's tempting to take the Westeros crew's word that he's playing like town Arthur (I don't think I'm as familiar with Ser-Arthur's meta as everyone else is).

While I thought (and think) that Arthur's first posts are very much in line with his play as town in previous (Westeros) games, I'd note that he's only been evil once (as far as I can remember?). Some of his (and Alek's) later posts have struck me the wrong way.

I don't remember

Cow

being this overconfident and prone to exaggeration when I've seen him play before, but the bravado has an obvious town motivation even if it's faked. More likely town than scum, but I'm not as certain of it as everyone else is

Um.

Is

everyone else certain of this? Can't see him as anything but null at the moment.

Have a weak town read on

StefanB

and a super-weak one on

Jal

based mostly on the tone of some of their posts.

I think I agree with both of these. (Haven't persuaded Zar yet.)

~ Pless

[Plessiezarus]

Oh, and also:

Plum

is totally null for me. It would shock me if there were only 0-1 scum on my wagon, so I could see Plum being competent scum, I guess.

[a long post]

Nacho-Plum are no longer null, though.

Was it meant to be obvious what your read on Plum has changed to? Because it wasn't to me .

~ Pless

[Plessiezarus]

Yeah, I don't like sword either. Zar suggests the lack of engagement could be a town-tell, though (I guess he can expand on that himself later).

Well, mostly my own experience in the Metroid Game, where I replaced SoO as House Lannister. Sword was highly disengaged in that game and had what, 4 posts by 12~13 pages?

Hyperion is indubitably scummy and our vote is going there. VOTE: Hyperion I simply cannot put it in plainer words but that Hyperion is scum. If you need to ask I will line-by-line his contributions without resorting to ALL CAPS RAGE.

But Hyperion is very very scummy. And if he

is

total lynchbait and someone has very useful meta on him, please post or point out where it's been mentioned kthx.

Hyperion's meta in Westeros is very similar to the behavior he's sported for the moment. He is a player that traditionally gets mislynched and definitely not somebody I'd choose to give a gun to because of previous anti-town game experiences. His latest Westeros game just finihsed this monday, his alt was "Olivia Dunham" (which has now been recycled to Mr. Immortal (MS won't let me link to the shortened address, so remove the space there: http://tiny url.com/greatjim). (On a side note, Westeros alted games can be tough to read partly because alt accounts get randomized and recycled after every game.).

~Zar.

[Petyr Baelish]

checking in. no idea what's going on yet. Still pretty pissed I wasn't given Littlefinger despite mod's agreement. Now I'm just an idiot with an unmatched alt name. Ah well. Will catch up later.

[Dolorous Edd]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hyperion

[Dolorous Edd]

checking in. no idea what's going on yet. Still pretty pissed I wasn't given Littlefinger despite mod's agreement.

Now I'm just an idiot with an unmatched alt name.

Ah well. Will catch up later.

Join the club

[Plessiezarus]

Alek-head of D. Edd, i'm waiting for your answer, kthx. ~Zar

[Staeg]

Why should starbuck claim at all? He already claimed VT, what more is there for you to find out?

I would like to know why you want DE, Hyperion, and Shadow dead, because I am sure I know you want me dead because of my shitty LyLo play, which is more biased than actual scummyness.

Her rolename. You know, when you're doing that whole "waa I'm a vanilla townie just

lynch

choose me already" I would expect you to nameclaim at the very least (the thing is, I'm seeing a disconnect between her resigning herself to death and not claiming a rolename - which brings me to the point that she might have been coached to do this without the proper details).

DE, because of alek's entrance posts. Hyperion, because every single thing that he's said has A) been said at least twice already and/or B) is crap. Shadow, because of his posts before he went into /emo state.

I'm reading SnowStorm as scum, but I want to interject here a bit because it makes sense to me why he wouldn't. At Westeros, we always play behind alts. There are very very few times we play altless. We also have quite strict meta rules. We can't out another person's alt or our own. Sure, we have codes and things to get around some of the rules when we have meta reasons for why we read people the way we do, but we can't use that as part of our cases or arguments at all. You know how people go, "In GvE, you behaved this way, so I believe xyz here?" We can't do that there. So, because we are accustomed to play without meta - and our hilariously bad altguesses of each other has hindered games in the past - it makes perfect sense why SnowStorm wouldn't want to read any past games to get an unobjective PoV because that's how we're conditioned to play this game.

Uhh... Snowstorm definitely did not give me this impression when he said

The idea I have of Mina's town play is that I usually agree with her and get early town reads on her, which hasn't happened in this game, though I don't think she has posted much? As for CES, I don't really know how to read him and the freshest memory I have of his play is when he managed to survive a whole game as scum without doing anything but voting without reason. So, I'm kinda worried about them, I'd like to see more from Mina.

Out of curiosity, is there data on this somewhere?

I could've sworn that there were some statistics somewhere (made by LlamaFluff, specifically), but they might have been eaten by the crash... This post is all that I could find wrt this argument.

[Dolorous Edd]

Dolorous Edd

Why do you have a weak scum read on Plessiezarus? Also, why is SnowStorm null. (obv I'm asking the Arthur head on that.)

They mostly seem like they are snipping from the sidelines and nitpicking here and there to look like they are contributing and staying active, but at the same time they are really not taking strong stances nor expressing strong opinions. Pless is always more of an attacker as town, and I don't remember Zar being this much middle-of-the-roadish either.

[Shadow1psc]

Okay two things. Do you actually believe that Mina is so easy to read? Because I'm not sure where you're going with this. Mina is fairly readable, but she can play a decent scum game when she wants to. But you're acting like Mina fumbles along like an idiot when she's scum spilling so many scum tells it'll be obvious. If that were true, Plessiezarus wouldn't have added that they *think* they would have a better read of minimum if Mina started posting.

Second - I remember you in GvE having a couple of scum reads on day one. CooLDog especially, so I'm trying to figure out why you keep preaching that there's nothing to know.

Point A) I think Mina is pretty easy to read. Maybe I'm biased towards you girls who seem to wear that towny town town vibe like it's the latest perfume, but I could say the exact same about you, though for different reasons.

Point B) I called cooldog out as scum from like, post one, but I didn't get him lynched, no one listened to me despite the fact that I continuously posted and pointed out all the scummy things that I found, and not a single person really agreed with me all game. It reinforces the point I've actually mentioned as scum a couple times, but truly mean when I say my voice tends to have no weight in these games in the early days, so I've become content to sit back and just let things happen (see: every ASoIaF game, GvE, Chrono Trigger). I can comment more on this when another game finishes as well.

[Eddard Stark]

A zorse is a striped black-and-white horse from Essos. They are ridden by members of the Brave Companions.

Day 1, Votecount 16

MagnaofIllusion (1) - Shadow1psc
Starbuck (2) - Feysal, redFF
SnowStorm (3) - Plessiezarus, Regfan, Tyene Sand

Minimum (6) - MagnaofIllusion, Salamence20, Hasdgfas, Lyanna Stark, StefanB, Benmage

Benmage (1) - SnowStorm
Salamence20 (2) - Amrun, Minimum
Feysal (1) - Starbuck
BBmolla (1) - Hyperion
Dolorous Edd (1) - Jal
Tyene Sand (1) Mastermind of Sin
Hyperion (5) - Pandora, BBmolla, Staeg, Plum's Yo Mamma, Dolorous Edd

Not Voting (4):

Mockingjaye, Petyr Baelish, Bvoigt, sword_of_omens

With 28 alive it takes 15 to lynch.

• Deadline
  : 3rd September at 11:59pm Ireland time. (GMT+1)
  
• Countdown to deadline
  : (expired on 2012-09-03 18:59:59)
  
• redFF is V/la until Friday.

CHOOSE to be cute

MagnaofIllusion (1) - MagnaofIllusion
Tyene Sand (2) - Feysal, Mastermind of Sin
Dolorous Edd (2) - hasdgfas, Hyperion

Feysal (3) - Dolorous Edd, Salamence20, Pandora

Hasdgfas (1) - Shadow1psc

Minimum (3) - Regfan, Tyene Sand, Plum's Yo Mamma

Starbuck (2) - Starbuck, Staeg
redFF (2) - Benmage, Minimum
Shadow1psc (2) - BBmolla, StefanB

Not Choosing (10):

Lyanna Stark, Mockingjaye, Petyr Baelish, redFF, Amrun, Bvoigt, Plessiezarus, SnowStorm, Jal, Sword_of_omens

With 28 alive it takes 15 to 'Choose'.

[Shadow1psc]

I buy Shadow's stance on me, and it makes me sad to turn on him when he's the only one white-knighting me (I could appreciate some buddying right now), but I find Shadow's early play here more similar to AFFC (where he was contrarian and petty in a conscious effort to mimic his town meta) than to ASoS and GvE (where he got tetchy at points, but was full of adorable protown eagerness). My scumread of him waned somewhat when he discussed his beliefs about D1 theory, but those could be genuine regardless of alignment.

I also don't remember him being a hardline anti-D1 contributor before.

That said, I'm willing to give him some time to see if he delivers on his promise to contribute later. Shadow's alignment will become apparent with time.

See previous post, but GvE, AFfC and Chrono Trigger (especially CT) have all really reinforced my stance here that I can try and be useful, but I may as well just be funny because my reads are dismissed (and rightly so, I'm not always right), though I think the bigger point to make here is I believe my play doesn't change because every game I've been in as scum as multiball, and I just genuinely scum hunt the other team. In CT I couldn't even talk to my own scum team, and for awhile I just didn't know who they were because there were so many people and replacements, and everyone just seemed to randomly turbo-mislynch. All of my 'shock' and 'outrage' was natural because it was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen happen.

[Minimum]

Nah, Pless. People can draw their own conclusions on Plum.

FWIW, sword_of_omens actually impressed me as a player when I first played with him--he caught me in an embarrassing scum slip. No clue if he's just become lazier in general, though.

Also, multiple people have been declaring Cow town (in part because of his vote on me, though :eyeroll:).

Since his stance isn't implausible, I'm willing to give Shadow some time to develop actual opinions on this game.

Edd, give an example of a post where it feels like they're "sniping from the sidelines."