Open 441 - Chosen Mafia (OVER)

[rapidcanyon]

McStab's case holds? I have a hard time deciding whether Whiskers or Eidolon is his buddy but both scum are here right now.

Small chance that Eidolon and Whiskers are both scum and bandwagoning on McStab's case and I am chosen but I have a hard time buying McStab as town.

[Whiskers]

Because you're simplifying his case to make it mean something that it doesn't.
I asked before, and I am asking again: Do you understand what McStab is attacking you for? If so, what is it?

[Mortontfrh]

Oh hey, I'm glad you brought that up:

@MOD: Has there been any word from Crypto? Is he going to be

in

this game?

Crypto has yet to be in prod range. However, given the speed at which this game has been advancing i'll prod him tomorrow night if he has still failed to make a post.

Current Vote Count:

Vote Count 1.07

With 7 players alive it takes 4 to lynch.

Realgodfather (1): Whiskers
Rapidcanyon (1): Mcstab
McStab (1): Rapidcanyon

Not Voting: crypto, Realgodfather, Greywing, Eidolon

Deadline is in (expired on 2012-09-06 11:32:00)

[rapidcanyon]

So which is it? Am I a mastermind who engineered a mislynch and then killed a suspicious player to go after someone who wasn't suspicious? Or am I the scum who bandwagoned a townie quite blatantly to get a lynch, then went with it as it happened? You paint two possible pictures of me, both are flawed, and both are diametrically opposed. This is proof that your accusations against me are fabrications, rather than a clear, concise picture you have of me being scum.

And I've already answered why I did what I did countless times, if you think I'm going to rehash it you're wrong.

You are scum who bandwagoned on my case and killed Om to make me look even more suspicious so you can get a mislynch. I am likely chosen.

[Whiskers]

Your strategy of lynching a player, seeing their flip and then lynching the player that provided a case seems to me a setup for a double mislynch. Everyone who votes on a player's lynch is responsible for that lynch. You not giving reasons for your vote makes it more likely that you are the scum as opposed to less likely.

This is... just wrong.
Do you understand

why

he is trying to "lynch the player that provided a case"? It's not

because

you provided a case.
Can you tell me why he's trying to lynch you?

Because you're simplifying his case to make it mean something that it doesn't.
I asked before, and I am asking again: Do you understand what McStab is attacking you for? If so, what is it?

[rapidcanyon]

Because you're simplifying his case to make it mean something that it doesn't.
I asked before, and I am asking again: Do you understand what McStab is attacking you for? If so, what is it?

McStab bandwagoned on my case and is then accusing me. It is simple. Do you guys always run around in circles and ignore the obvious scum standing in front of you?

Simple, obvious case.

[rapidcanyon]

It is either McStab and Whiskers, or McStab and Eidolon, or whiskers and Eidolon.

[Whiskers]

Because you're simplifying his case to make it mean something that it doesn't.
I asked before, and I am asking again: Do you understand what McStab is attacking you for? If so, what is it?

McStab bandwagoned on my case and is then accusing me. It is simple. Do you guys always run around in circles and ignore the obvious scum standing in front of you?

Simple, obvious case.

HE IS ACCUSING YOU OF WHAT? TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK HE'S ACCUSING YOU OF.

[rapidcanyon]

@ Whiskers, read his case.

[rapidcanyon]

I can't make a big huge wall of text right now but I'll make one tomorrow afternoon.

[Whiskers]

It is either McStab and Whiskers, or McStab and Eidolon, or whiskers and Eidolon.

Ha. Maybe if we were the only players in the game. What about realgodfather, who was the counterwagon? What about Crypto who hasn't spoken in-game yet? What about Greywing, who has had comparatively low activity, and was off the mislynch (which, according to you rapidcanyon, is where the scum were).

[preedit]

@ Whiskers, read his case.

No, I don't think you understand his case. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and, when you show us that you really don't know what he's accusing you of, I'll help explain it. This is your last chance from me: What do you think McStab is accusing you of / attacking you for?

[rapidcanyon]

@ Whiskers, you have shown yourself to be a sharp player in this game. Same for Eidolon. If either of you were town, you would immediately vote McStab since it is a fairly obvious choice. My suspicion on you and Eidolon is based on the irrationality of saying that McStab's case might be legit. Or you were town and were convinced by his case.

Anyways, like I said, I am not a position where I am not being interrupted so can't type up a wall of text explaining each part of McStab's case and refuting it word for word. I can't post anything more than a few lines at a time.

Yes, I understand his case. I'll summarize and refute it tomorrow afternoon.

[rapidcanyon]

Eidolon is lurking btw.

[Whiskers]

Yes, I understand his case. I'll summarize and refute it tomorrow afternoon.

Fine.

[Eidolon]

Here's meta of a game where RC & I were scum together.

His Sn is F-16 and mine is Lickdafoot.

I have some where i caught him as scum but i can't remember which ones :/

I was mafia usurper and he was godfather.

day 1: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/15909/7/
day 2: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/15925/4/
day 3: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/15958/
day 4: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/15980/
day 5: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/15996/
day 6: http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/16024/

i'll respond to the rest later.

[realgodfather]

Oh. Om of the Nom is dead.

[realgodfather]

Hmm.
VOTE: Whiskers

[Whiskers]

Fool. I just want you to know, I'm not afraid of you and it will take more than your idle vote to lynch me.

@Eido: in order to avoid reading through this entire game, can you simply tell me: does scumF-16 make wild, go-for-broke pushes on players?

[rapidcanyon]

Okay, I'll

Unvote: McStab

for now since I am not completely certain of his guilt.

I'll respond in full tomorrow.

[rapidcanyon]

Okay, so let's start with McStab's first post:

Real GF, why do you think I am mafia?
Also, Eidolon, I already claimed. Why are still voting for me?

^^Peculiar play, but I'll grant that it's someone who's new to the site. Still, weird weird reaction to pressure.

[Eidolon]

@ Whiskers. I think rc's unvote nswered your question. Yes.

You know what, that just sealed the deal. RC town would be headstrong and frustrated right now. He's caving because he knows he seems scummy. That unvote after whisker's question was too opportune.

I'm not going to vote him yet because I'd rather wait to hear what the less active players have to say.

[rapidcanyon]

@ Whiskers. I think rc's unvote nswered your question. Yes.

You know what, that just sealed the deal. RC town would be headstrong and frustrated right now. He's caving because he knows he seems scummy. That unvote after whisker's question was too opportune.

I'm not going to vote him yet because I'd rather wait to hear what the less active players have to say.

I unvoted because I am willing to consider other possibilities.

[Eidolon]

Right after whiskers called your go-for-broke pushes scummy.

[rapidcanyon]

Right after whiskers called your go-for-broke pushes scummy.

No, I just wanted to not OMGUS as town. It is a weakness I am trying to resolve. I even made a thread on OMGUS a few days ago.

http://www.debate.org/forums/games/topic/24142/

[rapidcanyon]

Okay, found a little bit of time. so let's start with McStab's first post:

Real GF, why do you think I am mafia?
Also, Eidolon, I already claimed. Why are still voting for me?

^^Peculiar play, but I'll grant that it's someone who's new to the site. Still, weird weird reaction to pressure.

McStab just says that it is "wierd" without explaining exactly how. So, I'll assume that it is wierd with respect to mafiascum standards. You guys make a HUGE deal out of outing roles and never never out roles unless your life depends on it.

The way I am used to playing - here's how it works. All pressures are for claims first and only IF the claim doesn't check out, for a lynch.

It is common to start Day 1 by saying "Vote Lickdafoot for character claim" for instance.

Players hardly even need reasons for pressuring. The response in this situation is not to argue and defend oneself. That is seen as scummy. The townish response would be to give their character. For instance, if we were playing a harry potter game, the Lickdafoot would say "I'm Ron" if that was her character.

Once she claims, people vote again for someone else. Rinse and repeat. Once we get about 2 character claims, we VTNL. Almost every single game, day 1 ends in a no lynch.

I'll continue later.

In a game without characters, initial pressure is for a role. So, in the above example, if Lickdafoot was a JOAT, she would claim the role even with just a few votes on her. After a couple of people claim roles, we no lynch - invariably.

In this game, Eidolon voted for me. I had a feeling that RVS was different from what I am used to. So, first I naturally claimed my role - vanilla. I then asked for further clarification on RVS. Whiskers and Eidolon explained to me how it works on mafiascum.

Yes, McStab might find it "wierd" but it fits with what I know based on playing mafia offsite. Votes are made for claims and almost nothing but claims in the initial stages of the game.