Open 441 - Chosen Mafia (OVER)

[rapidcanyon]

I'll go through mcstab's case bit by bit.

[McStab]

That excuse would checkout, except, as you noted in the very first few posts, EVERYONE will claim VT. How could you possibly think claiming would remedy your situation when you already made it clear everyone would claim VT?

[rapidcanyon]

That excuse would checkout, except, as you noted in the very first few posts, EVERYONE will claim VT. How could you possibly think claiming would remedy your situation when you already made it clear everyone would claim VT?

I woondered if it was tradition to claim roles regardless of whether they matter.

[McStab]

Sure

[rapidcanyon]

Response to McStab part 2:

Om of the Nom, if you don't provide reasoning why I am mafia and simply say that it is your "gut," all I can tell you is that your wrong about me because I am town.
Whiskers, I find it odd that you reply to Eidolon by saying that I am scum but you respond to her post that she can read me by saying that you won't buy it if she says that I am town. Why so selective?

Vote: Whiskers

^^^Early signs of possible motive to kill Om? I normally don't put much weight on mafia NKs being something you can read into, but Om just DOESN'T make sense to kill. He's decent, but not amazing, he was an easy target for a mislynch because of his bad hammer yesterday, etc. Om was one of the few yesterday who seemed to persist in suspecting rapidcanyon though. Also, I don't like the wording "Why so selective?", as it implies to me he disproves of the selection, not the actual behaviour or possible motives. Not exactly a slam dunk, but it still fits the bill of somewhat scummy behaviour.

Good followup excuse after, though, as to why he used selective. I approve, point regarding selective retracted. Still possible motive to kill Om.

As to why Om was killed, I cannot explain it and I don't think you expect me to. It is possible he could have been killed just so players could point out that Om was suspicious of me and to make me look guilty.

I said "why so selective" to whiskers because it initially struck me as scummy that whiskers would only consider Eidolon's scum read on me but not town read. However, after whiskers gave a logical explanation as to why, I unovted because it made sense. Whiskers had withheld the explanation which made me suspicious until he came out with it resulting in my unvote.

Why did I vote Crypto? I vote inactives all the time. every game. My philosophy is that all other things being equal, inactives are more suspicious than active players. Lurking is a number one mafia strategy where I play as is flying below the radar. If I don't have any other leads as town, I go for the least active player. It also accomplishes the purpose of putting them on the spot and generating activity out of them.

I'll post part 3 in a bit.

[McStab]

"I can't explain it, but that won't prevent me from subtly suggesting I was framed"

You also just pointed out the reason mafiosos vote lurkers. You can't criticize someone for it. On it's own, sure, it's not a huge scumtell, but lurkers are easy targets for scum. I think taken together with everything else, it's supporting evidence.

[rapidcanyon]

Response to McStab, Part 3:

Argument number one:

Basically, Paschendale posted fluff reads. I don't think this is all that relevant. I hadn't posted much either, and yet I wasn't the subject of rapid's attacks. Why? Because I hadn't attacked him, like Pasch had. This kind of argument is weak at best, particularly so early in the game.

You did not make a long list of reads of no substance. Pasch did. That is why I was suspicious of Pasch and not you. Why did he bother posting a list of reads if he had nothing to say?

Argument number two: Pasch wasn't fabricating scumtells. Sure, there's some WIFOM, but making a logical mistake and trying to misconstrue something are very different things. For example, this argument is misconstruing Paschendale as scum.

Explain this (in a new post please, the quotes are giving me a headache)

Argument number three:

Could be pressure, could be that he legitimately thought RealGF was scummy. Either way, we know now that Pasch is town, and this argument isn't terribly convincing. Still, it's hard to argue with anything here. It passes.

He had made a few initial comments and came back to put RealGF at L-1 despite saying that you were his stronger scumread. This asynchroinity between words and actions made me think he was scum just voting for an easy target.

Argument number four:

As obvious as the flaw in Pasch's argument was about Whiskers, it's just as obvious that Pasch couldn't seriously get someone lynched on that lie. I would think scum could come up with a more convincing argument than that.

It seemed contrived. I didn't look at it twice when Whiskers claimed vig. Pasch made a post about "whiskers is lying about being vig." Whiskers was joking. The fact that he felt the need to point out someone lied seemed to me like he grasping at the faintest straws to make someone else (whiskers) look scummy. Grasping at straws = scumtell. Made me suspicious. Sure scum should come up with stronger reasons but Pasch seemed relatively new based on the number of his posts so I wouldn't have put it past him to grasp at the slightest nonsensical straws to make someone else look scummy. HE seemed scummy to me based on the post.

Argument number five:

So did I. Am I scum? Sheeping is sheeping. Sheeping is anti-town, sure, I'll give you that. But anti-town =/= scum. You can also see the rays of truth behind rapid's attacks coming out in both the title "Following the town" (how are you so convinced the bandwagon on RGF is town-driven, Rapid?) and the fact that what really caused this argument against Pasch is that he pressured rapidcanyon as scum.

You say that sheeping is anti-town. I was going for the most anti-town player at that time. Would you rather I be a psychic and be able to tell which anti-town behavior is town and which is scum? He didn't seem like town to me so I went after him. You yourself said sheeping is anti-town.

Why did I think that the first voters on RGF were town? Because based on my experience, scum follows what town is doing and tries not to draw attention to themselves. So, it seemed like town voted RGF and scum followed.

Now here's my conclusion:

Rapidcanyon reacted very weirdly to pressure at the start, taking non-serious RVS reasons extremely seriously (but only the ones on himself). He had a motive to kill Om (based on Om's interactions throughout the day against him) and he was the ONE person in the whole game who was unable to attack Om. Why? Because he would be guilty of OMGUS and he cameup with all the reasons to vote Paschendale. Since he came up with all the reasons, what justifies going after someone else on the wagon?

I wouldn't be surprised if RGF is the other scum, given the defense put up by rapid of him, but that's mere conjecture at this point.

Vote: Rapidcanyon

Thoughts on Whiskers and Eidolon will come later.

I reacted to pressure how a new player used to a different environment will react. I claimed my role thinking that people claim roles anyways as tradition. I then asked questions.

I didn't exclusively take RVS directed at me seriously. I also asked "why did Om vote Om?" "why did whiskers vote Om?" I wanted answers to everything.

[rapidcanyon]

"I can't explain it, but that won't prevent me from subtly suggesting I was framed"

I can't explain it to a certainty. But being framed is a possibility.

You also just pointed out the reason mafiosos vote lurkers. You can't criticize someone for it. On it's own, sure, it's not a huge scumtell, but lurkers are easy targets for scum. I think taken together with everything else, it's supporting evidence.

I simply wanted to generate activity out of Crypto by putting him on the spot so he is no longer a lurker. I never tried to push a lynch on him.

Also, what about scum lurkers? The only way as town to catch scum effectively is to consider all the players including the lurkers. What if we were all town and Crypto was lurking scum laughing his ass off that we were tearing each other apart? I wanted to eliminate that possibility by bringing him into the game so we can get a read on him.

[McStab]

I've answered half of these already, and I'm answering the other half sometime tomorrow or the day after.

[rapidcanyon]

Sure.

[rapidcanyon]

Anything else?

[McStab]

You're scum gg no re

nothing else for tonight

[rapidcanyon]

@ Whiskers. I think rc's unvote nswered your question. Yes.

You know what, that just sealed the deal. RC town would be headstrong and frustrated right now. He's caving because he knows he seems scummy. That unvote after whisker's question was too opportune.

I'm not going to vote him yet because I'd rather wait to hear what the less active players have to say.

Had McStab been scum and you town, you would have gone after him as opposed to looking for any little tiniest excuse to change your read on me from town to scum. Based on your behavior, my certainty of McStab's guilt lessened because there can only be so many scum.

Pedit: I am not scum. I responded to every one of your accusations. I don't know what else to tell you if you simply STATE that I am scum other than

I AM TOWN.

[McStab]

lol @ trying to be headstrong and frustrated

[rapidcanyon]

I am frustrated because I can't develop a strong scumread on either or Eidolon at this point so I can't figure out which of you is scum, so I am just assuming you are both town and giving responses until we get to a stage where I have enough info to determine that someone is town and legitly thinks I am scum and that someone is suspecting me for scummy reasons (perhaps because I am a chosen townie).

[rapidcanyon]

Also, Eidolon pushed for the Pasch lynch even before I did. Why are you so convinced that she is town?

[Eidolon]

Nice way to go from "i'm trying to stop OMGUS" to immediately OMGUSing me as your explanation on why you backed off on mcstab.

I never pushed for a pasch lynch before you.

I VOTED him because something he did struck me as odd.

It doesn't mean lynch. YOU pushed a lynch on MY scumread.

[rapidcanyon]

Lol, looks like I got online the same time as you. So, you pushed a pasch lynch as well after I voted. So, why are you suspicious of me, now?

[Eidolon]

because you are being scummy.

[rapidcanyon]

At this point, you are my biggest scumread. Is McStab your scumbuddy or is he town?

[Eidolon]

scumbuddy, obviously.

[rapidcanyon]

I'd like to hear whisker's response as well. I am thinking he is the townie among the three of you and you can't all be scum since there are only two scum - unless McStab is town and for some reason thinks he's caught scum.

[Eidolon]

you think that everyone who posted so far is scummy?

lol, what about the people who haven't responded much?

What is your case on me? That I believed mcstabd too easily. I'll try to reexplain it. Give me a second.

[rapidcanyon]

You don't even provide any reasoning before just blatantly buddying and saying that I am town until you realized that there was a possibility of lynching me and it would happen quicker if you go along with it rather than oppose it. So, you took the littlest thing (an unvote) as an excuse to change your mind.

I responded to McStab's case entirely as well.

[rapidcanyon]

you think that everyone who posted so far is scummy?

Considering the theme (chosen mafia), yes. But all 3 of you can't be scum.

lol, what about the people who haven't responded much?

I want to see their response. One scum is obviously you. The other really could be anyone.

What is your case on me? That I believed mcstabd too easily. I'll try to reexplain it. Give me a second.

It is fairly obvious. He bandwagoned with a townie and then accused me. If you were town, you would immediately vote him and not me.