Mini 1370: Possessed Pastors in a Paranoid Parish: Who Won?!

[IceGuy]

Dislike IceGuy's post. Feels more like IIoA.

Do you know what IIoA means?

ICeguy, do you think Seil is scum? What about Amrun and MoI?

I've already given all reads.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm not seeing your MoI read anywhere.

[AngryPidgeon]

Nor your Seil read. Admittedly I'm skimming because Im at work, but still. I dont see it. I think I saw you say KittyHat is null-town

[IceGuy]

If I haven't given a read it means I currently don't have a read, or am conflicted.

[DarthYoshi]

The Book of Vote Counts, Chapter One, Verse Five

Eidolon (3): DeasWave, Hiraki, Amrun
Quilford (2): Empking, MagnaofIllusion
IceGuy (2): seilkops, AngryPidgeon
rapidcanyon (1): Tierce
Zyrconium (1): Eidolon
Amrun (1): Zyrconium
Empking (1): Quilford
AngryPidgeon (1): IceGuy
Not Voting (1): rapidcanyon

With 13 alive, it's 7 to excommunicate and 7 to have no excommunication.

The deadline is currently set for 7:00 am Pacific Daylight Time (GMT-7) on Wednesday, September 5.

Prodding DeasWave.

As ever, if you have any questions or concerns, please let me know!

[Eidolon]

I still don't like how amrun just pops in, posts a question or a vote and doesn't offer up much. is this his normal playstyle?

My other scumspect right now is deaswave, for post 95, the only real post of his.

I still like the zyrc wagon and he pretty much just stopped posting. want to hear more from him.

I can kinda get behind the iceguy thing but i have to reread it all. Same with the quilford/empking thing. Kinda meh about this game right now though I understand (some) points against me. Haven't been on my best game as far as explaining myself goes.

[DeasWave]

I'm really sorry about the lack of posts. I've been more busy lately, but should be ok from now on.

We're conflicted on Eidolon, so we probably won't be pushing his lynch for now.

Unvote

And we also think Pidgeon is town.

@MoI: Sorry again about the lack of posts, but it probably should be a towntell considering who we are.

@Hiraki: Where have I (DV) been inactive before?

@Eidolon: Does your latest scumread on us have anything to do with the recent complaints about our inactivity?

Our main scumreads at the moment are probably Amrun and Empking, although I need to have another look at IceGuy and talk about things with Delta a bit more. I'm sorry again about my poor organisation, and we'll be deciding on whose lynch to push soon.

[Eidolon]

It moreso has to do with the content of the post but the lack of anything else is something that i noticed too. i can understand being busy and dealing with 2 different opinions. i explained the reasoning on the post somewhere, i'll have to find it tomorrow and explain more then.

i'll have limited access for the next week, only being able to post in the daytime.

[DeasWave]

Sometimes I forget I have a hydra account. OH WELL

We're divided on Eidolon, I thought he was town, Deas thought he was scum. Neither of us are interested in pursuing RC. I think we're both pretty much on the same page about Quiltown.

~ DW

[seilkops]

This rubs me the wrong way. Weird as it is, I find people stating that claims are bad to be a scumtell. IIoA I guess.

Seil, RC's claim looks legit. Hence why people are transferring to their next scum read.

I don't think it was good that RC had to claim to get out of L1. I'd rather scum did not know his alignment.
The thing I don't like about everyone just simply transferring their votes to Eid, is that theirs a solid chance that we'll just have the same result we did with RC. Another role that scum will know.
We should at least look more at Eid instead of just piling on votes and half-waiting for a claim from her. That strategy will get us nowhere.

Ok. Why is my gut telling me this is bussing? Its distancing and its very light accusations. It seems forced.

Wait, you think I was bussing IceGuy? If so, I think you just have indigestion, not a gut read. I saw something scummy that deserved my vote, and then voted for the poster.


About RC and Eid

I feel like they're used to this "debate.org" site where the standards are different. Foh sure, I've noticed that their playstyle is very different. The strongest instance of how I saw debate.org influences them is when RC posts

Also, I'd claim my role but apparently, people on mafiascum consider it "scummy" to claim before reaching L-1, so w/e, suit yourself.

While bitchy and whiny (no offense RC), you can see how different their play style is, compared to usual mafiascum peoplez. Or maybe they just suck, not 100% sure.
@RC
You signed up to play on mafiascum, don't make it such a big deal that you have to follow the norm around here.



I feel like my post reads like an essay, but I've been writing essays for like 5 hours so maybe I'm just desensitized.

[seilkops]

A "safe town read" is a player like Tierce or Amrun who generally appears town, at least early in the game. This means a scum player can easily read them town and buddy them without getting too much heat for an unfounded town read. This is especially obvious when the read happens early in the game, after just a few posts.

That does not mean every town read on one of them is a convenient town read, but when several convenient reads (town reads on safe town players, town reads on dying wagons, scum reads on easy lynches, scum reads on players with a wagon on them) are bundled it makes for a good scumtell.

I put Tierce and Amrun down as town, because I think they are town. I'm not going to go against what my reasoning says about them, just to appease you and look edgy or to make my reads look town.
So what does that make my scum read on you IceGuy? Are you calling yourself an easy lynch? Cause last I checked, you had no wagon on you, small or large.

See above - I can put her down as town and so can you. Nice misrep.

(I have her as null, by the way, otherwise I would've mentioned her).

How do I misrep you?

rapidcanyon is my top suspect for reasons outlined in others' posts.

You say this, then rail people for having "convenient" reads on genuinely town players, and "convenient" reads on scummy gameplay. Really? At least I have reasons, all you did was vote someone then fail to clarify

at all

your reason for voting them. 6 people said RC was scummy, you couldn't bother to find and point out which reasons made RC scummy to you? Way to be vague.

And another low-effort read.

And another completely unestablished statement from you.

To that, I answer

rapidcanyon is my top suspect for reasons outlined in others' posts.

rapidcanyon is my top suspect for reasons outlined in others' posts.

rapidcanyon is my top suspect for reasons outlined in others' posts.

That is so blatantly hypocritical of you, I'm surprised God himself didn't strike you down.
Get it? It's funny because this game flavor is religion orientated. Hah. Fuck I'm good.

Explain how my reasons are crappy.

Because they are poorly thought out, and filled with illogical reasoning. Good enough for you? As I've already explained. Tierce and Amrun are down as town in my reads, because they've been acting town this game. Tada.

[seilkops]

Quilford and IceGuy are nice alternatives

but let's go for the main goal

Hiraki, join me. I think IceGuy is scum.

[Hiraki]

ok

[Tierce]

Sheesh, I just looked at the length of this post. I'll divide this by chunks.

On rapidcanyon:

1. Why did you bother to explain your RVS motivations regarding voting Eid?

Some people seemed confused as to whether it was RVS. People were voting at Eidolon for non-RVS reasons at that time so I clarified.

2. Are you seriously suggesting that you placed so little emphasis on this game over another that you could not spend a single hour posting analysis? Given the volume and content level of your posting elsewhere I find this hard to believe.

Another game seemed more interesting. I was busy defending myself in that game. Won't say more since it is ongoing but the point is, it was imperative and urgent that I attended to that game.

3. Is your vote on Tierce predicated solely on her asking for more votes on you?

It is the most important reason, not the sole reason. She offered no analysis besides a blatant "he is scum, vote him." Considering the speed at which the votes piled onto me for very minor reasons blown out of proportion, I felt certain that some of the people were scum. I picked the scummiest out of the people that voted me.

1. I very much dislike what's implied here. "People were voting Eidolon for non-RVS reasons, but I stuck to my RVS vote." Why would you stick to that vote instead of producing content?

2. No. You are mixing 'imperative and urgent' with 'more interesting'; I don't want you to go into details about the other game, but your phrasing doesn't add up. You're calling another game more interesting, and then saying it had urgency--the second doesn't necessarily imply the former. Besides, how could it possibly be so urgent that you posted prod-dodges for 72h, including one that was a whooping 3 hours (nothing out of the norm) from your previous post? No matter how fast the games in debate.org are, three hours shouldn't draw that reaction from you, and the fact is that you've since gone much longer than that period without commenting on your own activity. I think it has nothing to do with the time that elapsed, but with the pressure from MoI and from Amrun. You were supposed to be bus

in this game

, defending yourself

here

, and instead you essentially vanished for 72 hours and gave priority to defense in another game while avoiding this one. This game was plenty interesting with those votes on you, and should be as 'imperative and urgent' as your other one. Maybe not in the next few hours, but being gone for three full days is ridiculous. I understand when a game draws more attention/interest than another, but the difference here is too big to dismiss simply as "sorry, other game was more captivating".

3. You have not answered the question as to why you think lack of explanation in votes is scummy. Why is a lack of announced reasons scummier than what you're calling 'very minor reasons blown out of proportion'? This reads as scum caught for the wrong reasons--and I don't have to make a case for you to defend yourself if I think you're scum.

Your posts show plenty of interest in spreading suspicion--so where are the votes? Votes are the best way to actually put pressure on someone, and you called Amrun and Eidolon scum without voting me, after that afterthought vote on me.

I am not fake-bussing. If I were fake-bussing, it still makes sense to lynch Eidolon.

Why is this still alive?

But since she is the only way defending me, it is probably a bad idea to go after her (although the choice of games she chose stick out blatantly).

Why are you afraid to die?

Tbh, Magna's case seems really contrived and trying to turn stuff like "I will post later" into a scumtell. I don't know who scum is (I can barely distinuguish between Magna's and Angry's analysis - they are both equally contrived.)

More suspicion with no votes.

This is what made me suspicious of her. It is not a bus attempt. I am town and I think she is scum. Also, if you think it is a bus, then lynch her. After she flips scum, I'll defend why I am not on her team.

Again, why so certain that Eidolon is scum, but with no vote? Why do you fear going against her? Aren't you the one here you knows her best, after all, and the one who could give us the best perspective of what she's like as town or scum? And if you don't want to vote Eidolon...

MagnaofIllusion - Scum
Amrun - Scum
Eidolon - *Very smart scum*

...you're not lacking for options. Why the lack of vote?

What is your read on IceGuy?

Well I can’t say I’m thrilled with Rapid’s claim. His flavor doesn’t match very well with what I and Wikipedia know of the character. That said flavor outguessing isn’t a reason to disregard a claim without other evidence and if we had someone else with a Town protective role I would have expected a push-back by this point (although not sure everyone has posted).

I have absolutely no knowledge of the character. Elucidating me here would be handy. And I really don't think it's a good idea to expect another protective role to out themselves over this. Why are you so certain of the expected amount of town power?

On Quilford and Empking:

I still have no bloody idea what you two are doing. Do you care to explain using plain English?

If this is the lynchpin of your suspicion you should just roll over and claim scum because Town-Quilford doesn’t push suspicions this poorly reasoned.

Nope. Town-Quilford isn't exactly a pinnacle of amazing scumhunting. But there is this:

How about the fact that every post explores something completely different to the last, the crappy questions (see above) that he fails to actually draw conclusions from, and the shitty reasoning for voting me which I still don't get (

and surely there are better reasons to vote people at this stage in the game

).

Aside from the fact that your first point (each post explores something different) isn’t a scum tell and that your second point (failure to draw conclusions) really is unproven since he’s concluded you are scum please elaborate on the bolded. I'm ignoring the "voting me is shitty" as that's craptastic Road to Rome fodder and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Empking isn’t going to vote himself. The only other person you have called scum is me. The word ‘places’ is plural. What other places besides voting me are you talking about here.

On the bolded, Quilford: what are these 'reasons' and why haven't you mentioned them as of this post?

Because both of the leading wagons are newbs (join dates within the last two months) which means I can't tell their alignment for shit. It also probably means scum is having a field day because man is it no coincidence how new they are. So I'm looking elsewhere.

I wish this was a valid point, but newbies draw scum as much as experienced players do. (They're not new to mafia, though it's pretty evident that they are less experienced than most MS players.)

On DeasWave:

Been in two games with Deas. He was very active and Town in both. And the one game I was in with NexusWave he was very active also. So it has got my attention.

I've seen DeasVail in an hydra with Skenvoy. Granted, they were both busy at the time, but still failed at activity in general--as town. I don't think this is relevant to their alignment.

On Eidolon:

i would never be buddying up with you like they think i am here.

This kind of selfmeta is pointless as any good scum would be subverting previous meta whenever possible.

Why are you stalling? These are your last five posts:

Tierce - Town
AngryPidgeon - Town jumping to conclusions

Hiraki - Null
IceGuy - Null
DeasWave - Null, jumping to conclusions
ICEninja - Null
seilkops - Null, jumping to conclusions
Empking - Null

MagnaofIllusion - Scum
Amrun - Scum

Eidolon - *Very smart scum*

if you think i'm scum i'm NOT playing very smart right now lol.

like i said i just picked the games at random as i was flipping through the pages. the first game where we were both scum, you were very active. i also tried bussing you that game. i would never be buddying up with you like they think i am here.

But anyways i'd like to hear more from the people who have just laid back on the sidelines since the pressure kicked up on me & you.

i'll be more specific later

.

correct. i think a lynch on him is the wrong way to go. he's playing exactly how he does as town.

i'll have more time to give an explanation on why later.

sigh.

I still don't like how amrun just pops in, posts a question or a vote and doesn't offer up much. is this his normal playstyle?

My other scumspect right now is deaswave, for post 95, the only real post of his.

I still like the zyrc wagon and he pretty much just stopped posting. want to hear more from him.

I can kinda get behind the iceguy thing but

i have to reread it all

. Same with the quilford/empking thing.

Kinda meh about this game right now

though I understand (some) points against me. Haven't been on my best game as far as explaining myself goes.

It moreso has to do with the content of the post but the lack of anything else is something that i noticed too. i can understand being busy and dealing with 2 different opinions. i explained the reasoning on the post somewhere,

i'll have to find it tomorrow and explain more then

.

i'll have limited access for the next week, only being able to post in the daytime.

And what is your vote doing on a slot that is being replaced?

[seilkops]

Tierce,

what about IceGuy?

[rapidcanyon]

1. Why did you bother to explain your RVS motivations regarding voting Eid?

Some people seemed confused as to whether it was RVS. People were voting at Eidolon for non-RVS reasons at that time so I clarified.

2. Are you seriously suggesting that you placed so little emphasis on this game over another that you could not spend a single hour posting analysis? Given the volume and content level of your posting elsewhere I find this hard to believe.

Another game seemed more interesting. I was busy defending myself in that game. Won't say more since it is ongoing but the point is, it was imperative and urgent that I attended to that game.

3. Is your vote on Tierce predicated solely on her asking for more votes on you?

It is the most important reason, not the sole reason. She offered no analysis besides a blatant "he is scum, vote him." Considering the speed at which the votes piled onto me for very minor reasons blown out of proportion, I felt certain that some of the people were scum. I picked the scummiest out of the people that voted me.

1. I very much dislike what's implied here. "People were voting Eidolon for non-RVS reasons, but I stuck to my RVS vote." Why would you stick to that vote instead of producing content?

Like I already said, I wasn't following the game closely enough at that point. The start of the game is often less interesting than the middle and the end. Also, another game had reached a critical state.

2. No. You are mixing 'imperative and urgent' with 'more interesting'; I don't want you to go into details about the other game, but your phrasing doesn't add up. You're calling another game more interesting, and then saying it had urgency--the second doesn't necessarily imply the former. Besides, how could it possibly be so urgent that you posted prod-dodges for 72h, including one that was a whooping 3 hours (nothing out of the norm) from your previous post? No matter how fast the games in debate.org are, three hours shouldn't draw that reaction from you, and the fact is that you've since gone much longer than that period without commenting on your own activity. I think it has nothing to do with the time that elapsed, but with the pressure from MoI and from Amrun. You were supposed to be bus

in this game

, defending yourself

here

, and instead you essentially vanished for 72 hours and gave priority to defense in another game while avoiding this one. This game was plenty interesting with those votes on you, and should be as 'imperative and urgent' as your other one. Maybe not in the next few hours, but being gone for three full days is ridiculous. I understand when a game draws more attention/interest than another, but the difference here is too big to dismiss simply as "sorry, other game was more captivating".

I agree that urgent is not necessarily equal to interesting most in most cases, it is. Games that are almost over for instance are heck of a lot more interesting and urgent than games that just started. At the start of the game, there is little evidence to vote anyone and most arguments essentially blow little things out of proportion. I wasn't posting "prod-dodges." I said I would come back later. It is quite common on debate.org and comes naturally to me. I agree that having to defend yourself from pressure makes a game more urgent so I did respond to MoI. However, I also needed to defend myself in another game.

3. You have not answered the question as to why you think lack of explanation in votes is scummy. Why is a lack of announced reasons scummier than what you're calling 'very minor reasons blown out of proportion'? This reads as scum caught for the wrong reasons--and I don't have to make a case for you to defend yourself if I think you're scum.

Not only did you lack reasons at the time but you were also urging people to vote for me on no basis whatsoever. I already had 4 votes on me and you still wanted more. It struck me as overeager.

Your posts show plenty of interest in spreading suspicion--so where are the votes? Votes are the best way to actually put pressure on someone, and you called Amrun and Eidolon scum without voting me, after that afterthought vote on me.

I hadn't decided who to put my vote on.

I am not fake-bussing. If I were fake-bussing, it still makes sense to lynch Eidolon.

Why is this still alive?

No idea what you are talking about.

But since she is the only way defending me, it is probably a bad idea to go after her (although the choice of games she chose stick out blatantly).

Why are you afraid to die?

I believe it is each townies duty to avoid getting mislynched. If all townies play in a way such that they don't get mislynched, scum can't win. Scum have to mislynch townies to win. So, my priority is to ensure I am not mislynched and to lynch scum.

Tbh, Magna's case seems really contrived and trying to turn stuff like "I will post later" into a scumtell. I don't know who scum is (I can barely distinuguish between Magna's and Angry's analysis - they are both equally contrived.)

More suspicion with no votes.

I wasn't sure who to vote for.

This is what made me suspicious of her. It is not a bus attempt. I am town and I think she is scum. Also, if you think it is a bus, then lynch her. After she flips scum, I'll defend why I am not on her team.

Again, why so certain that Eidolon is scum, but with no vote? Why do you fear going against her? Aren't you the one here you knows her best, after all, and the one who could give us the best perspective of what she's like as town or scum? And if you don't want to vote Eidolon...

MagnaofIllusion - Scum
Amrun - Scum
Eidolon - *Very smart scum*

...you're not lacking for options. Why the lack of vote?

She was the only person defending me. Voting her would have given her an excuse to hammer. Once I flip town, she won't even look suspicious since some people are propagating a theory that we both have to be scum. They'll probably just say "oh, well, we were wrong about Rapid-Eido scumteam" and move on.

What is your read on IceGuy?

I'll get back to you on that one.

Well I can’t say I’m thrilled with Rapid’s claim. His flavor doesn’t match very well with what I and Wikipedia know of the character. That said flavor outguessing isn’t a reason to disregard a claim without other evidence and if we had someone else with a Town protective role I would have expected a push-back by this point (although not sure everyone has posted).

I have absolutely no knowledge of the character. Elucidating me here would be handy.

I don't have any knowledge about the character either.

And I really don't think it's a good idea to expect another protective role to out themselves over this. Why are you so certain of the expected amount of town power?

Waiting is better than straight up lynching a claimed bodyguard day 1.

[AngryPidgeon]

unvote: ice
Vote: seilkops

Number 1 wagon right now. Analysis when im not on my phone

[AngryPidgeon]

Fos tierce

[seilkops]

unvote: ice
Vote: seilkops

Number 1 wagon right now. Analysis when im not on my phone

I'm town. Hop off.

[IceGuy]

I put Tierce and Amrun down as town, because I think they are town. I'm not going to go against what my reasoning says about them, just to appease you and look edgy or to make my reads look town.

And I don't believe you, because they didn't actually do any townie things when you first formulated that read.

How do I misrep you?

By claiming a town read on a safe town read is automatically scummy.

That is so blatantly hypocritical of you, I'm surprised God himself didn't strike you down.
Get it? It's funny because this game flavor is religion orientated. Hah. Fuck I'm good.

So, what was I supposed to do in your opinion?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Siel can be Town for Post 260.

Rapid’s Post 265 is 100% pointless defense. Why are you bothering to argue you aren’t scum when the wagon on you already diffused due to your claim?

--

@Tierce

– I take it you are willing to lynch a claimed Bodyguard Day 1 based on your last post then?

I have absolutely no knowledge of the character. Elucidating me here would be handy. And I really don't think it's a good idea to expect another protective role to out themselves over this. Why are you so certain of the expected amount of town power?

Let’s see … in order –

1. American Guy character list.
2. No I don’t expect a counterclaim and never said I wanted one. I said I expected that another Town protective role would at some point vote for Rapid and push him on other points.
3. Let’s see … years of Mafiascum experience including about 50 Mini games, understanding of Darth Yoshi Mod meta and the information provided to me by my own role. Seriously … what did you expect as an answer with a loaded question like that? It’s not rocket science Tierce … if Rapid is fake-claiming scum the odds are heavily in favor of Town having an actual protective role of some sort. Do you disagree?

Nope. Town-Quilford isn't exactly a pinnacle of amazing scumhunting

Disagree. Team Mafia showed that Town-Quilford can be an effective scum-hunter (he helped peg Captain Ajax Day 1) and play obv-Town doing so.

--

@Angry

–I’m actually very curious at you complete non-reaction to pressure from Iceguy. You voted him at Post 249 but your premise is half “Seil is bussing” and half “that post was IIoA”. And Iceguy’s answers to your questions don’t seem like they merit that shift to Siel personally. Lastly you are moving from a wagon with some viablility (Iceguy has 2 votes) to a singleton wagon on Siel.

@Iceguy

– why is it that 241 has a vote for Angry but all of the content is defending yourself from Seil? The only mention of AngryP in your ISO previous was Post 213.

--

@Eid

– so your reads at Post 255 are scum on three players for ‘lurking / active lurking’ (Amrun, Zyrc, Deas) and some fence-sitting on Iceguy / Quil / Emp. Is that a fair assessment? Doesn’t attacking inactivity strike you as hypocritical given you attacked those on Rapid who used his lack of thread activity as a reason?

--

@MoI: Sorry again about the lack of posts, but it probably should be a towntell considering who we are.

How should being a completely fail hydra be a Town-tell when the two components of the hydra are know, at least to me, for being active as Town?

Your question to Hiraki after you make this comment really makes me wonder since you are asking Hiraki to show inactive Deas. Why would you bother asking that if Deas being inactive is a Town tell?

[IceGuy]

@Iceguy

– why is it that 241 has a vote for Angry but all of the content is defending yourself from Seil? The only mention of AngryP in your ISO previous was Post 213.

Where do you see a problem with that?

[AngryPidgeon]

@MoI: quick response from work. Still need to catch up. Hurr, durr, AP is ignoring me.

[AngryPidgeon]

Oops hit submit early:

Why exactly is moving to a new wagon bad? Seilkops is giving me bad feelings in 259 / 260

[AngryPidgeon]

UGh, posting from work. Right now I'm fine voting for either IceGuy or Seil. My gut is telling me its not Eidolon/RC at this point. I think they are derp, but not necessarily scum.

I still dislike's IceGuy's original push on Seilkops in post 27. I also love how he is accusing me of convenient reads when several other people are guilty of that as well. I just find his/Seil's interactions to be super scummy in general. I can point to specifics, but it feels a lot like intentional early distancing.

Apparently you think Seil is town for 260? 260 was actually pretty null for me, but 259 is bad. His talk about the Eidolon wagon is fluffy and seems like scum just wanting to comment on something. The whole post is fluffy.